• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

eryngi

Member
Apr 23, 2018
13
australia
Finally released a build of my game to testers! Massive changes were made, including an entirely brand-new module system.
I also finally got around to recording some gameplay. Here's Medusa, one of the three currently implemented (and very different) characters. I'll probably record gameplay of the other two tomorrow.


Feedback much, much appreciated!


wow, this looks rad. got a cool and imagination-stoking vibe to it, not sure exactly how to word it..the interesting, sort of mysterious, look of the buildings & world.. world map..all these UI elements. there's a lot going on and it's got a really strong sense of place. the graphics remind me of old Apogee games (this is a compliment) but with the nicer movement/feel/explosions/etc of commercial arcade games. also looks good fun :) inspiring!
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
6,227
Mementos
There are usually musicians on Twitter looking for work. I'll get one every now and again replying to screenshot Saturday posts I make asking if I need help. I've never sought one out though so I'm not sure how much help that is.

If you use Reddit then r/gameDevClassifieds/ is a pretty good place to share job postings or run into professionals for hire.

TIG Source seems to have a load. I have a thread for my game there, and I get several emails a week, or more, from musicians wanting to work on our game.
Thanks.
 

jahasaja

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
793
Sweden
Ok then. I hope to you good luck with the progress.
And after you finish the game, please create first hype and advertisment to have people who want to play the game.
Don't rush releasing the game even if you finish it.
That it my suggestion.

I think that is a great suggestions. I Should have listened to that advice before releasing my first game. Since we are releasing small indie games we do not need a specific date in advance better to focus on creating some buzz instead of rushing to release.
 

eryngi

Member
Apr 23, 2018
13
australia
hey y'all! i am a lurker who just joined here. this thread is so inspiring!

i make small games in my spare time. mostly arcadey stuff with bad programmer art and trippy rainbow shader foolery... the only really finished one i released was this very oldschool arcade maze game called Forget-Me-Not, back in 2011, for iOS (now delisted). i've been wanting to do an enhanced version for ages. started working on it for Vita a few years ago, but foolishy i decided to write it from scratch. got quite far but never finished it... 'tis vapourware now...

then last year i picked it back up again and made Forget-Me-Not R for pc/mac/linux (got no iOS device anymore). this time working from the original code. it's on itch.io - https://eryngi.itch.io/forget-me-not-r - there's also a "demo" version on there called pondskum which will eventually be an unlockable mode in the main game. i kinda like it more than the main game actually! because it ramps up super quick so sessions are much shorter

i'm still slowly working on it, got lots of plans. mostly to do with giving it more structure and progression, because at the moment it's just infinite random levels that gradually get harder. i've been very inspired by Flinthook lately...

here's my gif from tonight..got in the mood to code so i made bouncy fireballs



one of the other games i've been working on is this thing Wobbegong Land: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmlbagHE0ek .. which i love tinkering with but i have no idea what it is really. freeware at https://eryngi.itch.io/wobbegong-land
 
OP
OP
Popstar

Popstar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
877
hey eryngi ! I still have Forget-Me-Not on an iPad Mini 2 that I've kept on iOS10. It's great that you found your way here!

Do you do your own music? I'm loving the music in the video you linked of Wobbegong Land. Reminds me of old shibuya-kei stuff.
 

eryngi

Member
Apr 23, 2018
13
australia
ohh cool Popstar, thanks!! :) hopefully i can get this new FMN back on iOS one day..
yep that music's mine, though it's not part of the game - no sound yet so i put the music in for fun.
 

Minamu

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,900
Sweden
I'm considering itch.io for my project too, I hope my file size will fit though. I think we'll need to consider our game a beta with the aim of getting feedback on how to improve it. But I have no clue on how to do patches for Unity games :/ Feels weird forcing everyone to redownload an entire game every time, no?
 

Aki-at

Member
Oct 25, 2017
336


Pop goes the bullets :P

Finally released a build of my game to testers! Massive changes were made, including an entirely brand-new module system.
I also finally got around to recording some gameplay. Here's Medusa, one of the three currently implemented (and very different) characters. I'll probably record gameplay of the other two tomorrow.


Feedback much, much appreciated!


This looks great! Actually I like how you've added a overworld where the giant monster can get attack by planes and fighters, sort of reminds me of the old Godzilla Game Gear game. Anyway I loved some of the over the top abilities you've got there, when Medusa went into space to grab a space station to turn into a giant snake head or when she changes into some submachine gun laser beam, it looked amazing, love it when games go the extra mile of over the top. There seems to be a great level of control here too, just looking at the game it looks pretty tight and responsive! Good work so far.

PS. I really love the explosion animation!
 

jarekx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
623


A little thing I started working on in my spare time. Doesn't look like much but hey, it's a start. I've got very basic dungeon generation going with paths between each floors.



Also have some combat going as well. Nothing crazy but it's fun to work on.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
262
Oh, I see. I'm guessing you want to tackle the random room generation first because that might be the most challenging thing to do?

Honestly... It's all challenging, it's just that it can only be done one step at a time.

If anything, I think the room layout generation is going to be one of the easier parts, tragically enough. I'm expecting the hardest part to be generating the puzzles and associated items... so I'm putting that off =)

The room layouts are also not quite the first thing I've done. Earlier in the year I was working on generating the overall dungeon layout as a node graph and then converting that into a 3D dungeon map (some images here and here). So now I'm trying to develop the 2D rooms that will be placed according to the dungeon layout.

EDIT: Also there's the 2.5D version I starting making in the last couple of years, which I've completely thrown out to make this new, much more complicated version... because I'm a sensible person. But here's a video of it in case you're interested:



I guess my current aim is to again get to a playable state of dungeon exploration, but this time with 2D gameplay, in a multi-floor dungeon, and with much more elaborate room layouts. Then I'll think about the puzzles and combat...
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Wow, lots of activity in the thread today, cool! I want to reply to everyone but I'm exhausted right now, so I'll do the older posts first. Today was supposed to be my resting day after the crazy month and a half of working every single day on the previous release, but bugs were already found, and I attended Retromadrid too (as a visitor)...

Ok then. I hope to you good luck with the progress.
And after you finish the game, please create first hype and advertisment to have people who want to play the game.
Don't rush releasing the game even if you finish it.
That it my suggestion.

This is very solid advice, and it has been hammered home by a lot of people, so I'll be sure to do that. I guess this video is a small first step, but yeah, a long way to go still.

I'd love to do something like that! Last time I tried it, it killed Flash and hard crashed my computer, so I'll have to figure out a way to load all animations in sequence (maybe a few at a time, and reconnect gifs later), but yeah, that's something I'd like to see :-D

A .gif would probably murder pretty much anything it played on, it would be far more feasible to make a video. I have no clue how hard that would be, though. I guess worst case scenario, you could rig your game to play all the character animations in order on a white background, and simply capture the footage with GeForce Experience or equivalent.

At worst, I'm also thinking of doing flipbooks as rewards for a crowdfunding campaign down the line... hopefully those would be cool as well.

Flipbooks as in actual, physical, paper flipbooks? :O What an incredible idea! My inner ecologist cringes a bit at the thought, but I guess making them small and limited wouldn't be too impactful. Now I wonder why nobody has done this before (or perhaps they have?).

Yup, I meant Rampage, though as you said, if it's not meant to be faithful, then it's aaall right :-D
The segmented idea would be pretty cool if you can manage to get it working!

Getting it working should not be too hard, the only thing is that it would mean to bin all work on current Jorm... I have a feeling this is one of those ideas that feels drastic on first thought, but letting it grow on me over time will end up pushing me to do it. :D

I've realized one of my strong points is being able to visualize how something is bound to turn out before I even start working on it. This is a very lucky confluence of decades of gaming experience, decades of programming experience, and good intuitive feel for simple math and physics. This saves me a lot of work and trial and error, which is very fortunate as I'm lazy as hell. :D

wow, this looks rad. got a cool and imagination-stoking vibe to it, not sure exactly how to word it..the interesting, sort of mysterious, look of the buildings & world.. world map..all these UI elements. there's a lot going on and it's got a really strong sense of place. the graphics remind me of old Apogee games (this is a compliment) but with the nicer movement/feel/explosions/etc of commercial arcade games. also looks good fun :) inspiring!

Wow, I'm blushing here, thanks a ton for the kind words! Praise is the wind in most of our sails and this is no exceptiing, hearing it praised just makes me want to keep making it better. Thanks!

Incidentally, this just happened:
Me - "I'm blushing from the praise".
The missus - "How much did you pay them?".
:P

Been trying to add more stuff to make the game look more lived in



Looks very nice! I have a lot of trouble getting stuff to look lived on and organic. I'm seeing some visible seams on some tiles still, but they probably won't be noticeable during normal gameplay.

I think that is a great suggestions. I Should have listened to that advice before releasing my first game. Since we are releasing small indie games we do not need a specific date in advance better to focus on creating some buzz instead of rushing to release.

Well, we also have to eat and pay rent... I'm working on this full time so there's a hard cap on how much time I can keep this up. I'm coming to terms with the fact that I will probably have to get a "normal" job before I can actually finish it, which will obviously slow down development.

Actually, I was wondering about the alternatives. I mean, sure, there's kickstarter, but for those of us who have never published a game, it's a tough sell. But I've seen there's at least two more alternatives that fall somewhere in between "self publishing" and "salary work".

One of them is Indie-Fund, its conditions are like this:
  • Flexible budget, no milestones – We start out with your best guess for the budget and pay that out in two chunks: one after signing, the other when the first is close to running out. If more funding is required, or if less funding is required, we can adjust the second payment.
  • Repayment – Once the game is released, you first pay back the investment and then share 25%of the revenue, until we double the initial investment, or until 2 years after the initial launch date, whichever comes first.
  • No long term obligations – If the game did not generate enough revenue to repay the investment within 2 years of release, the agreement expires and you no longer owe Indie Fund anything. Whatever revenue your game generates from that point on is yours to keep. If the game does generate enough revenue to repay the investment the agreement could expire even sooner leaving 100% of the revenue to you.

Giving them 100% of generated revenue until they recover the investment might sound harsh at first, but on second thought, considering this includes your own salary, it't not that bad. At the absolute worst (if the game doesn't sell anything), you keep the investment, which is more than you would if you worked entirely on your own. And if it sells like hotcakes, you keep 75% of all revenue past that investment, and 100% of it after two years. Seems pretty safe if it works as intended... and if someone actually funds your game, of course.

The other would be to seek out estabilished and beloved indie publishers like Devolver Digital or Chucklefish. I have a feeling just being published by them would increase the visibility of your game dramatically, plus you can leverage their marketing expertise and focus on development (a scenario I'm sure most of us would relish).

Thoughts? Experiences?

Got back on the horse today and made some progress... and a fairly satisfying gif of random room layouts



Looking great, very different-looking layouts! Can the main character walk on thin (all blue) paths?

i kinda like it more than the main game actually! because it ramps up super quick so sessions are much shorter

This sounds to me that you might want to tweak the main game. Ramping up action is such a delicate issue (I should know!), but you definitely want to make the game challenging quickly, especially if the player can't select difficulty modes.
 

RHANITAN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
174
hey y'all! i am a lurker who just joined here. this thread is so inspiring!

i make small games in my spare time. mostly arcadey stuff with bad programmer art and trippy rainbow shader foolery... the only really finished one i released was this very oldschool arcade maze game called Forget-Me-Not, back in 2011, for iOS (now delisted). i've been wanting to do an enhanced version for ages. started working on it for Vita a few years ago, but foolishy i decided to write it from scratch. got quite far but never finished it... 'tis vapourware now...

then last year i picked it back up again and made Forget-Me-Not R for pc/mac/linux (got no iOS device anymore). this time working from the original code. it's on itch.io - https://eryngi.itch.io/forget-me-not-r - there's also a "demo" version on there called pondskum which will eventually be an unlockable mode in the main game. i kinda like it more than the main game actually! because it ramps up super quick so sessions are much shorter

i'm still slowly working on it, got lots of plans. mostly to do with giving it more structure and progression, because at the moment it's just infinite random levels that gradually get harder. i've been very inspired by Flinthook lately...

here's my gif from tonight..got in the mood to code so i made bouncy fireballs



one of the other games i've been working on is this thing Wobbegong Land: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmlbagHE0ek .. which i love tinkering with but i have no idea what it is really. freeware at https://eryngi.itch.io/wobbegong-land

I have no idea whats going on in that wobblegong game but i adore the music and visuals.
 
Oct 27, 2017
262
Weltall Zero, I salute you for being so dedicated to this thread. It's so great to have someone looking and giving feedback. I want to get more involved but mostly I'm just posting about my own thing (and I know I'm not alone there...)

Looking great, very different-looking layouts! Can the main character walk on thin (all blue) paths?

Yup, the blue parts are the floors. The next step is putting paths and staircases between the different floor parts, so it's not just a bunch of different isolated bits.

After that I'll start to work on full-size graphics, so it'll be a bit clearer even though it'll still be my own crummy programmer art. Right now I'm using single 8x8 tiles to represent what will be decadently spacious 48x48 blocks (6 tiles by 6 tiles).
 

udivision

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,031
Honestly... It's all challenging, it's just that it can only be done one step at a time.

If anything, I think the room layout generation is going to be one of the easier parts, tragically enough. I'm expecting the hardest part to be generating the puzzles and associated items... so I'm putting that off =)

The room layouts are also not quite the first thing I've done. Earlier in the year I was working on generating the overall dungeon layout as a node graph and then converting that into a 3D dungeon map (some images here and here). So now I'm trying to develop the 2D rooms that will be placed according to the dungeon layout.

EDIT: Also there's the 2.5D version I starting making in the last couple of years, which I've completely thrown out to make this new, much more complicated version... because I'm a sensible person. But here's a video of it in case you're interested:



I guess my current aim is to again get to a playable state of dungeon exploration, but this time with 2D gameplay, in a multi-floor dungeon, and with much more elaborate room layouts. Then I'll think about the puzzles and combat...


I don't quite think I've wrapped my head around doing dungeon generations with the stipulations mentioned in that video, so layering puzzles onto that certainly seems like a challenge. I take it that each puzzle would have to be self-contained in the room that generates it?

That looks like a lot of work to just throw away! But since you still have the knowledge you gained from the last attempt it's not like you're starting from scratch.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I'm considering itch.io for my project too, I hope my file size will fit though. I think we'll need to consider our game a beta with the aim of getting feedback on how to improve it. But I have no clue on how to do patches for Unity games :/ Feels weird forcing everyone to redownload an entire game every time, no?

Feel free to shoot me a beta, I'm always up for picking nits. :D



Pop goes the bullets :P


Bubble Bobble's theme just started playing in my head.

As anyone who's ever had that theme stuck in its head for days would know, that's actually a serious medical condition. :D

This looks great! Actually I like how you've added a overworld where the giant monster can get attack by planes and fighters, sort of reminds me of the old Godzilla Game Gear game. Anyway I loved some of the over the top abilities you've got there, when Medusa went into space to grab a space station to turn into a giant snake head or when she changes into some submachine gun laser beam, it looked amazing, love it when games go the extra mile of over the top. There seems to be a great level of control here too, just looking at the game it looks pretty tight and responsive! Good work so far.

Thanks a metric ton!

Yeah, I adhere pretty strongly to the Mythbuster motto (if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing). Jormungandr doing the space station bit was the best I could come up with to solve an unsolvable problem, namely "I've got a mecha based off a mythical snake whose claim to fame is eating the freaking world. How in the hell do I make something like that that would remotely work in a sci-fi setting?". It's quite funny that it ended up being one of the Ultimates that people loved the most. :)

PS. I really love the explosion animation!

I'm assuming you mean the smaller ones, which I also love; almost all of the explosions are lifted (and some modified) from opengameart, specifically Frogatto, which is apparently a game that was cancelled and all its assets were released under the CC0 license (public domain, not even attribution required):
https://opengameart.org/content/explosion-animations
The huge, nuclear explosion supertanks and battleships make is mine, although I'm not too happy about it currently (it looks too cartoony, especially the edges between the color bands are too "clean"). I want to tweak it in the future.

I have some other public domain art in my game, particularly for "generic": those explosions, a couple trees, the clouds, the fire, and a mountains sprite. Many are heavily modified to suit my needs or fit the game's style. Players, enemies, buildings, grass and water are mine, as is every sprite in the map.

I'm expecting the hardest part to be generating the puzzles and associated items... so I'm putting that off =)

That would be my expectation as well. Specifically, the appeal of procedural generation is to create content that is always challenging. Having it create puzzles that remain interesting and not repetitive after several replays... that seems like an insanely high order indeed.

However, everything you've posted here shows you don't shy from challenge, and that you have the intelligence and knowledge to make it happen, for which I sincerely and deeply admire you. If there's anyone in the world that can achieve this, it's you. No pressure! :D

It's an entirely different genre, but if you haven't (it's not a very known game, which is tragic in itself), could I recommend you check out Desktop Dungeons? It's a game that reimagines traditional roguelike (with a K) dungeon crawling as kind of an "emergent puzzle game", and I have a feeling there might be some overlap and / or interesting ideas for you to think about. There's also Into the Breach, where each turn feels like an emergent puzzle, but the genre (turn-based tactics) is probably far too removed from your game to be of much help beyond very general things.

The room layouts are also not quite the first thing I've done. Earlier in the year I was working on generating the overall dungeon layout as a node graph and then converting that into a 3D dungeon map (some images here and here). So now I'm trying to develop the 2D rooms that will be placed according to the dungeon layout.

EDIT: Also there's the 2.5D version I starting making in the last couple of years, which I've completely thrown out to make this new, much more complicated version... because I'm a sensible person. But here's a video of it in case you're interested:



This is absolutely insane to me. Frankly a NES Zelda roguelite like this would have blown my mind right off already. I'm a sucker myself for systems and procedural stuff, so this is right up my alley. Please be sure to share here any specific roadblocks you find, I'm sure it'll be fascinating to try to help you figure them out.

I guess my current aim is to again get to a playable state of dungeon exploration, but this time with 2D gameplay, in a multi-floor dungeon, and with much more elaborate room layouts. Then I'll think about the puzzles and combat...

Procedurally placing enemies feels like it should be considerably easier than doing the same for puzzles or even room generation, I think. I personally always tackle the hardest problem first (to straight out give up entirely if I can't solve it :D ), but it's quite likely you could lean heavily on combat itself if puzzles don't pan out.

We're releasing our first kinda pure visual novel in a few weeks, and it is scaring the hell out of me how it will be received. Just a very small Shakespeare play.

I think being scared shitless of reception is the default state on everyone in this thread. And if it isn't for anyone, please tell me your secret. :D

Weltall Zero, I salute you for being so dedicated to this thread. It's so great to have someone looking and giving feedback. I want to get more involved but mostly I'm just posting about my own thing (and I know I'm not alone there...)

Thanks a lot. :) I'm often told I'm empathetic; I value and crave feedback so much that I can't help but identify with other devs that want it, and it really takes me comparatively little of my time to provide it.

I've also realized my opinion has an interesting property: they tend to align very strongly with what critics and the majority of people like. It might be the least glamourous superpower conceivable (I'm the anti-hipster, wee), but it's very useful when it comes to gauge what changes one might make in a game to make it more appealing and engaging for players, and specifically what comparatively simpler changes would economically result in the biggest improvement payoff. After decades of having that skill be used to silently (or not so silently!) scream at an imaginary version of the developer of the game I'm playing, how could I refuse the chance to put it to work doing actual good? :D

Yup, the blue parts are the floors. The next step is putting paths and staircases between the different floor parts, so it's not just a bunch of different isolated bits.

I had a brain fart; I meant the grey thin paths / halls, where there's nearly no space between the opposing walls. Can the player walk on those?

After that I'll start to work on full-size graphics, so it'll be a bit clearer even though it'll still be my own crummy programmer art. Right now I'm using single 8x8 tiles to represent what will be decadently spacious 48x48 blocks (6 tiles by 6 tiles).

I have an intuition that there's got to be Zelda-like public domain tileset somewhere, if not for final art, at least to get you started quickly.
*googles*
This might be a good start, although I'm not sure it has dungeon sprites.
https://opengameart.org/content/zelda-like-tilesets-and-sprites
 
Oct 27, 2017
262
I don't quite think I've wrapped my head around doing dungeon generations with the stipulations mentioned in that video, so layering puzzles onto that certainly seems like a challenge. I take it that each puzzle would have to be self-contained in the room that generates it?

I'm still considering how to approach this, but I think some will be self-contained and some will span across the dungeon.

The puzzles are fundamentally about traversal - how to get from one door to another when there's something in the way that prevents you from getting there. So on a room-specific level, there could be puzzles about moving things around, using tools and switches to make things appear and disappear, travelling in unusual ways, etc.

But there could also be puzzles that are a set on a dungeon-layout level and sort of just interpreted by the rooms. For example, the classic idea of switches that raise and lower the water level. The dungeon layout could know there are switches in rooms A and B to set the water high and low, and that you can only access room X if the water is high and room Y if the water is low...

So then on the room-layout level, the game needs to create appropriate areas of water leading to rooms X and Y that fulfil the needs of the dungeon layout. In that sense, there can be puzzles that span multiple rooms.

Something like a room you can only access by jumping down from a higher floor would also be set on the dungeon-layout level.

That looks like a lot of work to just throw away! But since you still have the knowledge you gained from the last attempt it's not like you're starting from scratch.

Yep! I learned a lot in the process of doing that, some of which is really useful for this project, and some of which could come in handy in the future. (Like all the code for generating a 2.5D cube world as a mesh based on a tilemap... That's sure to work in some other game, it's just not flexible enough for this one.)
 
Oct 27, 2017
262
That would be my expectation as well. Specifically, the appeal of procedural generation is to create content that is always challenging. Having it create puzzles that remain interesting and not repetitive after several replays... that seems like an insanely high order indeed.

However, everything you've posted here shows you don't shy from challenge, and that you have the intelligence and knowledge to make it happen, for which I sincerely and deeply admire you. If there's anyone in the world that can achieve this, it's you. No pressure! :D

Haha, you flatter me far too much there... but I can at least agree that I don't shy away from challenge. I don't know how feasible it is to make puzzles that remain interesting and varied, but I'm eager to find out!

It's an entirely different genre, but if you haven't (it's not a very known game, which is tragic in itself), could I recommend you check out Desktop Dungeons? It's a game that reimagines traditional roguelike (with a K) dungeon crawling as kind of an "emergent puzzle game", and I have a feeling there might be some overlap and / or interesting ideas for you to think about. There's also Into the Breach, where each turn feels like an emergent puzzle, but the genre (turn-based tactics) is probably far too removed from your game to be of much help beyond very general things.

Nope, I haven't played either of these. Thank you, it is useful to get recommendations of things that are aiming at similar goals! Something else I'm quite interested in that just came out is The Swords of Ditto (after reading Kotaku's article about it).

This is absolutely insane to me. Frankly a NES Zelda roguelite like this would have blown my mind right off already. I'm a sucker myself for systems and procedural stuff, so this is right up my alley. Please be sure to share here any specific roadblocks you find, I'm sure it'll be fascinating to try to help you figure them out.

In the end, as satisfied as I was with what I achieved in that version, it wasn't practical to continue with it because the way I was generating the 3D world (as one big mesh) made it impractical for puzzles to work properly, because tiles need to be appearing and disappearing and changing in natural ways. I also decided that having a flat main character in a top-down 3D world would be terrible for combat.

...That said, I'm also not such a fan of Zelda 1, so when I had to redo half of it anyway, I figured I might as well start again and make it closer to my ideal. In the end, the "playable empty dungeon" goal I'm working towards now won't be that much more feature-laden than the version in the video, it will just have more varied and twisty-turny layouts.

After my most recent roadblock I took a break for a couple of months, before finally cracking it today. Maybe next time I'll try posting in here to get more ideas and motivation =)

Procedurally placing enemies feels like it should be considerably easier than doing the same for puzzles or even room generation, I think. I personally always tackle the hardest problem first (to straight out give up entirely if I can't solve it :D ), but it's quite likely you could lean heavily on combat itself if puzzles don't pan out.

Yeah, this has occurred to me as well. The combat stuff could also get quite elaborate if I figure in procedural weapon and enemy properties, but unlike puzzles, it doesn't absolutely HAVE to be complicated. If the puzzle side of things proves insurmountable, there's a version of this game that's just dungeon layout + combat, and it wouldn't be terrible.

But right now I'm keeping my ambitions sky high :) It's only a hobby anyway, it's not like I'm in a rush.

Thanks a lot. :) I'm often told I'm empathetic; I value and crave feedback so much that I can't help but identify with other devs that want it, and it really takes me comparatively little of my time to provide it.

I've also realized my opinion has an interesting property: they tend to align very strongly with what critics and the majority of people like. It might be the least glamourous superpower conceivable (I'm the anti-hipster, wee), but it's very useful when it comes to gauge what changes one might make in a game to make it more appealing and engaging for players, and specifically what comparatively simpler changes would economically result in the biggest improvement payoff. After decades of having that skill be used to silently (or not so silently!) scream at an imaginary version of the developer of the game I'm playing, how could I refuse the chance to put it to work doing actual good? :D

I'll say again that your comments are really appreciated. If you're that in tune with the masses, it is good to hear that "procedurally generated Zelda-like" is not a totally abhorrent concept, haha. There are a few out there, but it's not super common.

I had a brain fart; I meant the grey thin paths / halls, where there's nearly no space between the opposing walls. Can the player walk on those?

Ah, right. Those aren't intended to be walkable, and I've actually considered tweaking the room layout code so wall-against-wall combos like that aren't generated at all. I might wait and see how it looks with the full-size art.

I have an intuition that there's got to be Zelda-like public domain tileset somewhere, if not for final art, at least to get you started quickly.
*googles*
This might be a good start, although I'm not sure it has dungeon sprites.
https://opengameart.org/content/zelda-like-tilesets-and-sprites

Thank you, I might google around further for public domain art. Although, I also find making pixel art is a nice change of pace from coding :)
 

GMM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,481
Just doing some research work into processing, rigging and shading 3D scanned characters. The texturing could be a little better by painting in more surface details to the normal map, but i am happy about the outcome and need to experiment with animating it with blendshapes. Rendered with Unreal Engine.

01z9rpa.png

02zfqg9.png

93d9qbe.png

0471qp8.png
 
Last edited:

GMM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,481
That looks pretty crazy. What kinda game is it for?

Currently the plan is for a third person action-adventure game in the style of Alan Wake/Quantum Break, but with emphasis on the adventure part of the equation, so i'm currently researching into the character creation pipeline. The initial goal right now is to create a sample cinematic to act as a vertical slice for the visual astetic and possible issues with the production.

Side note, love the stuff you guys put out at Splash Damage.
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,396


a lil two-hit combo i made a few days ago. Animating is really fun even though i'm just making placeholder sprites right now while i learn to code...
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Haha, you flatter me far too much there... but I can at least agree that I don't shy away from challenge. I don't know how feasible it is to make puzzles that remain interesting and varied, but I'm eager to find out!

Hahah, frankly it feels like a challenge I'd love to tackle too. Let us know when you start so we can brainstorm stuff.

Nope, I haven't played either of these. Thank you, it is useful to get recommendations of things that are aiming at similar goals! Something else I'm quite interested in that just came out is The Swords of Ditto (after reading Kotaku's article about it).

Oh, I've seen this game on my Steam what's new, but didn't realize it was a roguelite! Wishlisted. :)

In the end, as satisfied as I was with what I achieved in that version, it wasn't practical to continue with it because the way I was generating the 3D world (as one big mesh) made it impractical for puzzles to work properly, because tiles need to be appearing and disappearing and changing in natural ways. I also decided that having a flat main character in a top-down 3D world would be terrible for combat.

Well, I figured this was all prototype visuals, but the dungeon generation algorithm is so cool.

...That said, I'm also not such a fan of Zelda 1, so when I had to redo half of it anyway, I figured I might as well start again and make it closer to my ideal. In the end, the "playable empty dungeon" goal I'm working towards now won't be that much more feature-laden than the version in the video, it will just have more varied and twisty-turny layouts.

I understand. With the benefit of hindsight it's obvious you got the chops to make it work even for SNES Zelda style, but I don't think I would have been so brave!

After my most recent roadblock I took a break for a couple of months, before finally cracking it today. Maybe next time I'll try posting in here to get more ideas and motivation =)

Yes please! I can't get enough of this stuff and I love a mental challenge!

Yeah, this has occurred to me as well. The combat stuff could also get quite elaborate if I figure in procedural weapon and enemy properties, but unlike puzzles, it doesn't absolutely HAVE to be complicated. If the puzzle side of things proves insurmountable, there's a version of this game that's just dungeon layout + combat, and it wouldn't be terrible.

Fully agreed.
For enemies, I think you might want to experiment with procedurally generated bosses. In my game I have two large enemies that are kind of procedural: a supertank of varying sizes that is then populated with randomly (but symmetrical) placed turrets, and a varying-size battleship which is populated with "towers" and guns as well. You could get really crazy with your game, e.g. having different monster parts like tentacles, claws, wings, etc. that attach to different bodies.

But right now I'm keeping my ambitions sky high :) It's only a hobby anyway, it's not like I'm in a rush.

That does make a world of difference. If you're enjoying it and don't depend on it to eat, by all means do what's most enjoyable!

I'll say again that your comments are really appreciated. If you're that in tune with the masses, it is good to hear that "procedurally generated Zelda-like" is not a totally abhorrent concept, haha. There are a few out there, but it's not super common.

I admit while I'm in tune with them, I have specific fetishes (like everyone else) that I understand are not universal, and "pixel art" and "roguelite" are two of the biggest ones. That said, there's a huge market for both, as games like FTL have proven in the past.
Your game has a big plus: it would work perfectly on consoles, which opens a huge market. I feel that if there's something that's a huge dev risk is making PC-only games, especially considering how saturated Steam is with incredible games.

Ah, right. Those aren't intended to be walkable, and I've actually considered tweaking the room layout code so wall-against-wall combos like that aren't generated at all. I might wait and see how it looks with the full-size art.

That was the only thing that felt "un-Zelda-like" to me, it felt almost "glitchy", so I would definitely recommend removing them if it's not algorithmically impossible. Which my gut feeling says it shouldn't: worst case scenario you could do a post-generation pass to fill in the gap, and add a fence or wall at the above level so that it remains impassable.

Thank you, I might google around further for public domain art. Although, I also find making pixel art is a nice change of pace from coding :)

Ah man, I relate so much with what you just said. I started my game as a test to see if I could tackle the challenges, before roping in an artist, but I ended up enjoying making pixel art so freaking much, I can't imagine doing that now. It's so relaxing after a bout of mentally demanding work!

Case in point (and definitely not something others should imitate), yesterday I was so exhausted I didn't even have the strength to fire up a game to relax (at 2 AM; yes, I'm not a morning person) so I fired up Aseprite instead to work on improving Jorm's building-climbing animation. I ended up doing so until 5 AM. :S

The worst part is that I was supposed to take a couple days break after the previous month and a half of 7 days a week work...

There was a lot of internal discussion about if doing such would hurt our "brand". Ultimately, I just wanted to do it see if there is a market for Shakespeare VNs.

How in hell could possibly something like a Shakespeare visual novel hurt anyone's brand? O_o

Just doing some research work into processing, rigging and shading 3D scanned characters. The texturing could be a little better by painting in more surface details to the normal map, but i am happy about the outcome and need to experiment with animating it with blendshapes. Rendered with Unreal Engine.

01z9rpa.png

02zfqg9.png

93d9qbe.png

0471qp8.png

Wow, this is incredible. 3D modeling remains the one part of game dev that feels like utter witchcraft to me.

How did you know that I did not do it :-P??

I don't know about others, but you mentioned it a few days back, and I listened. :)


Beautiful stuff. I really need to check all his pixel art tutorials (so enjoyable to read / see!) and the link you gave me earlier with more of them.
 

jarekx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
623



I'm still toying with the idea of being a more top down zelda-ish type view. I'm not including jumping or any platforming so it's not a big deal to change it. I'm just unsure if every dungeon / scenario I would create would lead itself well to the sidescrolling view. I'm thinking things like forests and other outdoor locations would be a little odd like this. Though I may narrow it down to a single dungeon roguelike idea. I'm still just experimenting with a lot of things.
 
Oct 27, 2017
262
Weltall Zero, I won't quote every single thing (just to avoid another super long post) but your comments are, again, really appreciated :) To cover a few points:

For enemies, I think you might want to experiment with procedurally generated bosses. In my game I have two large enemies that are kind of procedural: a supertank of varying sizes that is then populated with randomly (but symmetrical) placed turrets, and a varying-size battleship which is populated with "towers" and guns as well. You could get really crazy with your game, e.g. having different monster parts like tentacles, claws, wings, etc. that attach to different bodies.

Bosses are quite far down the to-do list because they're a) likely to be complicated to make as unique as I'd like them to be and b) quite self-contained and not that related to the rest of the dungeon structure. A dungeon would feel incomplete without a boss at the end, but otherwise the boss serves no particular role in the dungeon layout - it's just another room you can't pass until you clear an obstacle.

So I haven't thought about it in a lot of detail, but something like different bodies with different parts stuck on to them is more or less what I had in mind. Different attack patterns, different weaknesses, different ways of reacting to the tools you have on hand... It's do-able, but I do worry they'll still be samey and underwhelming unless there are a lot of different parts prepared.

That does make a world of difference. If you're enjoying it and don't depend on it to eat, by all means do what's most enjoyable!

Boy am I glad I'm not depending on this to eat, haha. Indie development seems like a difficult world in terms of like... getting your game out there so people actually know it exists. I'd barely know where to start.

That was the only thing that felt "un-Zelda-like" to me, it felt almost "glitchy", so I would definitely recommend removing them if it's not algorithmically impossible. Which my gut feeling says it shouldn't: worst case scenario you could do a post-generation pass to fill in the gap, and add a fence or wall at the above level so that it remains impassable.

OK, you've convinced me :) Before I move on, I'll make it not do that anymore.

It's definitely possible. Right now, when it places every region of floor, it then tries to draw all the surrounding walls. If the walls would be impossible/invalid, it rejects that floor position and tries a different possibility. So I can fix this by adding an extra check at that stage, where if it finds particular combinations of neighbouring tiles (walls directly facing each other) it also counts that as a fail and tries putting the floor somewhere else.

Ah man, I relate so much with what you just said. I started my game as a test to see if I could tackle the challenges, before roping in an artist, but I ended up enjoying making pixel art so freaking much, I can't imagine doing that now. It's so relaxing after a bout of mentally demanding work!

Case in point (and definitely not something others should imitate), yesterday I was so exhausted I didn't even have the strength to fire up a game to relax (at 2 AM; yes, I'm not a morning person) so I fired up Aseprite instead to work on improving Jorm's building-climbing animation. I ended up doing so until 5 AM. :S

The worst part is that I was supposed to take a couple days break after the previous month and a half of 7 days a week work...

That is pretty hardcore, but good to know you also find doing the art relaxing :) Relatedly, if it's OK to ask, what is your goal with indie development? Are you aiming to make a living from it, and if so, how's it working out?[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
 
Last edited:

SaberVS7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,234
Well, finally got around to rebuilding the game's combat systems to be properly RPG-based after a long time of using really janky Bullet-Objects.

kc4bt5.png


"how do i shot gun"

Hitrate formulas are still WIP but this is still roughly what your Hitrate is going to look like if you don't invest in your Weaponskills or Attributes properly.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Weltall Zero, I won't quote every single thing (just to avoid another super long post)

You know, I should do the same or we'll hog the entire thread, hahah. :D

It's do-able, but I do worry they'll still be samey and underwhelming unless there are a lot of different parts prepared.

I think they the key for great procedural content is not so much to have a lot of different parts (although for many things that helps a lot too), but have the parts merge in ways that are interesting and unique. E.g. (extreme / silly example); if you have ten bricks, but all of them do the same (or very similar things), no matter how many ways you combine them in, results will feel pretty much the same. However, if you have our bricks but each is entirely different, then you can craft many functionally different combinations with them. An extension for this boss example would be having more parts that do similar things, vs less parts that do radically different things (including parts that don't attack at all, but affect how the boss moves, like legs or wings).

Boy am I glad I'm not depending on this to eat, haha. Indie development seems like a difficult world in terms of like... getting your game out there so people actually know it exists. I'd barely know where to start.

That makes two of us! :D

OK, you've convinced me :) Before I move on, I'll make it not do that anymore.

Being able to be convinced is not a trivial thing, so congratulations for readily acceptinc criticism. I read in the pixel tutorials by the artist of jahasaja's game that one crucial skill that needs a lot of training is actually accepting criticism.

It might be because I'm entirely out of my confort zone with game making, and I'm used to normal software engineering where you pretty much do what the boss tells you, but I'm finding it so much easier than other people to do so, to the point that I practically make a point to immediately incorporate anyone's advice that doesn't directly clash with other game elements or future designs.

This probably makes me me seem weak-willed (which is hilarious as everyone in real life has me otherwise pegged as ridiculously stubborn), but the upside is that testers feel their feedback matters and become more engaged themselves.

That is pretty hardcore,

And in a very bad way, I know. I'm starting to finally understand what it truly means to be a workaholic: when working is more appealing than literally anything else. One thing that prevents me from going full on working to death Japanese executive is that I work intensely but tire proportionally faster, so I need to take rests.

but good to know you also find doing the art relaxing :) Relatedly, if it's OK to ask, what is your goal with indie development? Are you aiming to make a living from it, and if so, how's it working out?

That's a very good question! With perhaps a bit of a long-winded answer, so I'll try to make it brief. It needs a bit of "life story" context, so bear with me here.

Actually wait, I just remembered I wrote a pretty long post last year that I intended to be my introduction here (or NeoGAF, probably) and answering about a related "hobby vs job" ongoing discussion back then, until I realized nobody probably cared about all that, the dicussion had moved on, and ended up bailing :D . Quoting for size and meandering ramblings:

I'm a software engineer that's been working in business jobs for the last 18-19 years (I'm turning 40 next week). The company I worked on for the previous eight years had been in shaky financial grounds for a long time now, and I've been less than happy with my job there for unrelated reasons, so when they asked in December 2016 for volunteers to be laid off, I raised my hand. I got severance and unemployment, the latter of which I'm currently living off of via cutting down on pretty much everything non-essential (I'm pretty experienced at that, fortunately).

Thing is, I got into software engineering because of games. I've loved games all my life; I started gaming at 5 thanks to my dad, one of the first people here to buy an (imported) Spectrum 48k, and it's always been my passion. This means I've been gaming nonstop for the past 35 years, and yes, I got into IT because of that. So instead of applying for a better job right away, I thought I owed it to myself to get into game making at long last, if only to be able to say I've made a game.

I had actually started a Coursera online course by the University of Michigan about game development in Unity (which, BTW, I thoroughly recommend), so I completed it in January 2017 after taking the Christmas off, and then I started working on a game. And frankly, I'm loving pretty much every damn second of it. But I guess you guys here know all about the rollercoaster it is. :)

I'm doing it completely solo, as frankly that's always been my preferred way to work. I've never liked being responsible in any way for someone else's work (I hated every second of being a boss), and from having worked in teams of all sizes I'm fully aware of the huge overhead that goes into communication and waiting for others. I'm even doing all the spritework myself in Aseprite, which I had no clue I could as I have zero drawing skills, but it's not nearly as hard as I expected (my game has a very pixel retro style which helps). It's not beautiful, but it does the job; it's something I find very relaxing and I'm not sure I would enjoy delegating it. Sound effects are from freesounds edited with Audacity, and music is similarly public domain tracks that seem to fit my game well (most of them by a composed called Juhani Junkala).

Regarding "hobby vs job", this is frankly the one thing I'm second guessing the most. I tell myself I'm doing this for myself and the experience; it would be great to be able to make money off it, and living off it would be awesome, but I know the indie scene is saturated with amazing games and I don't think enough people would want to pay for my game. I'm having the hardest time gauging my game's viability or fun, like it's a blind spot, and I feel wildly differently about it each time of the day. My friends offer insanely helpful advice (even whole features I've incorporated into the game that makes it so much better), but as my friends, they'll always be biased towards it. Which is, again, the primary reason I wanted to post the game here, of course.

This was pretty much the situation back then: make a game for the learning experience and because it's what I've wanted to do all my life, worry about money later. I have quite a bit more confidence in the game now; then again, this was in May 2017, with like three months of development, versus 14 months now). In particular, I had a surge of confidence recently after polishing up the game for the latest version and truly enjoying playing it myself, and especially after putting up that video on Friday and seeing the positive reactions. This also led me to ask above about publishers and stuff like indiefund, although that seems to have fallen by the wayside. My unemployment benefits end in December, which puts a hard limit to how long I can keep developing full time like this. My options seem to be:
a) Get a "regular" job and keep working on the game during my free time.
b) Get a regular job that is OK with me working less days a week and working the other days on my game (I got this idea from someone else in this thread).
c) Seek out a published like Devolver Digital or Chucklefish.
d) Seek out an investor via indie-fund or similar.
e) ?
f) Profit (hopefully).

This is a good time as any to re-ask: thoughts? Experiences?
 
Last edited:

TwinsUltra64

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,453
Cyberspace, EUROPE
Hello, I'm having a issue and that issue is called "NullReferenceException" I'm using Unity and C# (I'm a complete noob)

Now, I don't know if some of you played NetYaroze's classic Haunted Maze, If you don't know this is the concept of the game I'm trying to replicate


I have an Empty gameobject in the scene called Logic, gameobject called player and other gameobject called moon (collectibles)
I want the Logic gameobject to be like a Gatekeeper in which he needs to make sure I collected let's say 5 moons in order to give me access to the next level
I want the Logic script to work with the player script let's say "collaborate between scripts"

Here's the script I hope it is clear:

///// Player Script \\\\\

public class PlayerLogic : MonoBehaviour
{

gameLogic GL;

//PlayerMOVEMENTvariables
public float speed = 10.0f;

//PlayerPickUps
public int Collected;


//PlayerMovement
private void FixedUpdate()
{
Rigidbody Player = GetComponent<Rigidbody>();
float HMovement = Input.GetAxis("ControllerH");
float VMovement = Input.GetAxis("ControllerV");
Vector3 movement = new Vector3(HMovement,0.0f,VMovement);
Player.velocity = movement * speed;
}

public void OnTriggerEnter(Collider picks)
{

picks.gameObject.SetActive(false);
Collected++;
Debug.Log("Amount of " + Collected);
GL.Open();

}


}

///// Logic Script \\\\\

public class gameLogic : MonoBehaviour
{

PlayerLogic playerLogic;
public GameObject Door;
public int AmountNeeded;

//AmountToOpentheDoor
public void Open ()
{

if (playerLogic.Collected == AmountNeeded)
{

Destroy(Door);

}

}


}

I hope you can help me, because I don't know what to do :(
 

Minamu

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,900
Sweden
I looooved Haunted Maze back in the day! Can you post the exact error? Usually the error means that some component is missing iirc, or you missed to include the object the error is alluding to in the code somewhere. There are some other performance enhancers you could do in general as well.

Edit: I think you could make the classes public statics as well, that way you'll find their functions easier. At first glance, I think you're missing links between for example gameLogic GL; and an actual GameObject?
 

TwinsUltra64

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,453
Cyberspace, EUROPE
NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
playerLogic.OnTriggerEnter (UnityEngine.collider picks) (at assets/script/player/player (1.2)/playerLogic.cs:34)

Now, player (1.2) is just a folder that I have in the Project tab which contains PlayerLogic script :)

I'm glad, You loved that gem of a game.
 

HellBlazer

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,027
It's finally happening, we're launching Beacon on April 30th (next Monday) through Itch Refinery!
https://monothetic.itch.io/beacon

SpicyRecklessJavalina.gif

(Definitely not crapping myself)

Couple of awesome articles from the day:
PC Gamer
Kotaku
Rock Paper Shotgun

We'll be launching with a brand new trailer on the day, so make sure to keep an eye for that <3

I'm a bit late on this, but congrats on the launch! I remember seeing this game in an early form in the old GAF thread a while back, so it's good to see you reached the release phase. Looking good!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.