Its time for Smash
Fired up Smash 4 again recently to play my friend and long time rival.... and Im ready for my Switch edition
Fired up Smash 4 again recently to play my friend and long time rival.... and Im ready for my Switch edition
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Nintendo First-Party Thread
- Thread starter EAD Ninja
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I'd be kind of disappointed if the Switch's Smash Bros. title was just a 4 year old port. At this point, let's wait a couple of years more for a completely new game, right?
Oh yeah for sure
The "PORT" was rumored to be complete and ready for the Switch launch and they decided to hold it
So Im hoping that decision was made in order to just turn it into a full blown sequel!
Yeah, it has to be a new game now.
Also unlike other WiiU ports the game came out on 3DS too. (I get there were a lot of differences but still) it doesn't quite have the "it was stuck on a commercial failure", excuse.
I expect them to reuse he character models and assets, but we really need something that feels like a whole new game. I think that's why we haven't seen anything announced yet. A half assed remix/port would have probably come out already.
WiiU ---> Switch ports haven't been of commercial failures anyway. Kart 8 sold extremely well on WiiU, they just wanted to easily replicate the success on Switch. You'll never see a Switch port of a WiiU bomba game imho. Bombas stay bombas.
I don't mean Nintendo should jam multiple big releases a month. I'm talking about one big release, with a couple of smaller, cheaper titles accompanying it a month. Which is very possible I think.
Geez, I don't understand the people who did all that sh*t in the old place. Tried to be rebellious but only ended-up looking like assholes crying for attention and lost all their credibility and reputation in the process.
Anyway, Luigi's Mansion 3 has always been the most logical assumption for Next Level Games. I just hope they got rid of the handholding from LM2 and create more freedom for exploration in the sequel.
I just want them to go back to the style of the original. I can understand if they wanted a mission structure for handheld, but I don't want that for LM3. Do it open like the original with multiple mansions.
I also think they could expand it to where you could walk to other mansions with graveyards and maybe some underground tunnels connecting them.
I'll never understand either.
Exploration should be the focus due to the hardware being primarily a home system. Let's hope anyway.
Metroid Prime 4 by Bamco is weird. Especially given how there have been rumors that Nintendo have been looking for western devs for it. Bamco's FPS experience is also minimal, though they could hire people for that. And this would confirm that Unreal Engine will be used.
Still weird though
Still weird though
They didn't develop those games in seven months. Most of them either started development as Wii U games, or were specifically planned to be first year Switch games but would have started development years ago. Zelda was in development since 2012 for example. Odyssey would have been in development since 3D World wrapped up in late 2013. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 since 2015 (if not earlier), and so on.
Considering that the Wii U release schedule was pretty barren for like the last two years of its life, and many of their internal dev teams are large enough to be working on multiple games at once...I don't think it's unrealistic to be expecting more games in 2018 than we got this year.
They released far more than that, and the N64 was only really supported for like 5 years. Remember that they had stakes in or outright owned HAL, Rare and Camelot (and probably other studios that I'm forgetting), so all of those games count too. And they have more (and bigger) development teams these days.
Why would Bamco make Metroid Prime 4.
?????
Does Nintendo just like their programmers because they worked together on Smash.
?????
Does Nintendo just like their programmers because they worked together on Smash.
Lol I see I could've worded it better but I didn't mean the Switch titles all went from conception to release in 7 months!
Still though, regardless of how long they were in development for the fact is Nintendo have released 6 games in 7 months. This is as prolific as they've been, ever (over twice the rate of their Wii games between the first and last releases for example.) So demanding that this should be the new standard or the bare minimum going forward is again unfair, and unrealistic.
It would be hugely impressive if they could somehow maintain this rate imo, I have no expectation in them surpassing it.
Also if Camelot games are valid then why wouldn't Mario+Rabbids and Fire Emblem Warriors be? It's the same thing.
Bamco would be a weird choice for MP4. One of their three games has to be Smash, though.
Bamco would be a weird choice for MP4. One of their three games has to be Smash, though.
Bamco would be a weird choice for MP4. One of their three games has to be Smash, though.
Nintendo doesn't own or have stakes in Ubisoft or Omega Force. They do with Camelot.
Mario + Rabbids is licensed; Ubisoft publishes it. And Fire Emblem Warriors is published by Koei Tecmo in Japan, while Nintendo only handles the international side of things.
Camelot said they wanted to make a sequel to Donkey Kong 64. I'm calling it now that Camelot will release a 3D DK for the Switch sometime in its lifetime.
Jesus, why? They can't even release a competent Mario sports game these days.
Fair enough.
Has little to do with how prolific their internal teams are though tbh.
Well I was kind of joking about them actually making it, but they did say they wanted to make a sequel. At the moment it's hard to give them the benefit of the doubt to do a 3D DK game.
That studio's quality has gone down.
Since when? Camelot never shows up in their financials, and if it's so small that it goes unlisted, how did we know in the first place?
They don't. Since when would they? Even HAL is very doubtful.
We had mediocre Donkey Kong games for a decade. I don't want another mediocre one, especially from Camelot. Retro or bust.
I know you guys want Retro to make something new, but DK fans don't want to go through what Metroid fans are just now getting out of.
In the first year of the Wii's life, Nintendo released 12 games.
November 19, 2006 - November 19, 2007
1. The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
2. Wii Sports
3. Excite Truck
4. WarioWare: Smooth Moves
5. Super Paper Mario
6. Big Brain Academy
7. Mario Strikers Charged
8. Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
9. Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
10. Super Mario Galaxy
11. Wii Play
12. Link's Crossbow Training
They also had a few other first party franchises developed for them by other studios (like what's happening now with Pokken and Rabbids), like Battalion Wars 2 and Mario Party 8. It was a similar story with the GameCube. Smash Bros. Melee, Pikmin, Wave Race: Blue Storm, Luigi's Mansion, Metroid Prime, Super Mario Sunshine, Eternal Darkness, Animal Crossing, Star Fox Adventures all in the first year.
The Switch obviously hasn't hit a full year yet, so we'll probably get another 2-3 games in the first three months of 2018. But as you can see - we're getting about the same amount of games (if not less) than we usually do for a new console release. Despite the Wii U being dead for ages before the Switch came out. I think people are just way more satisfied this time around because the hardware is awesome and the pacing of the releases has been really good, with a killer launch game in BotW and a fantastic Mario bookending the year, while with the Wii the best games didn't come until the end of the first year.
Nintendo has not released an unprecedented amount of games for the Switch in 2017.
Edit: Plus they were supporting their handhelds during the launches of the GameCube and Wii to a much greater degree than they are with the 3DS now.
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they definitely dont own any stake in HAL, nor Intelligent Systems despite IS existing inside NCL headquarters until a couple years back
Probably, although paper jam didn't exactly sell great either. Dream team did sell good though.
I think they will make one on the switch.
In addition to Smash Bros and Pokken, Bandai Namco co-developed Wii Sports Club and provided assistance on Mario Kart 8.
I don't know if there's any truth to that Metroid Prime 4 rumor, but it's not THAT far-fetched.
I don't know if there's any truth to that Metroid Prime 4 rumor, but it's not THAT far-fetched.
So what's the deal then? I mean GameFreak makes games for other systems despite being part owned by Nintendo. Surely Camelot, HAL and IS have some sort of agreement to exclusively work with Nintendo?
From Intelligent System's website:
Is it really just a handshake partnership? They'd be considered Second Party either way, right? I think it's fair to include their games as Nintendo clearly has a lot of input there in terms of what the studios do and don't work on, as opposed to something like the collaboration for Mario+Rabbids..
"second party" isnt really a thing, that's something nintendo made up decades ago about Rare (whom were also third party). but Intelligent Systems is third party. and Camelot just put out a game on PS4.
what agreement HAL and IS has with Nintendo is unknown and will probably never be known. same with Next Level Games. they announced they're only working with Nintendo now and they're still third party
IS is weird though. they're a third party company founded for the sake of supporting NIntendo (they make SDKs and hardware dev kits for Nintendo), and existed within NCL until getting their own building. strange
what agreement HAL and IS has with Nintendo is unknown and will probably never be known. same with Next Level Games. they announced they're only working with Nintendo now and they're still third party
IS is weird though. they're a third party company founded for the sake of supporting NIntendo (they make SDKs and hardware dev kits for Nintendo), and existed within NCL until getting their own building. strange
HAL and IS are the most classic definition of second party developers. They have been with Nintendo almost since day one, deeply entwined into each other's success. There is just no point in muddying the waters by venturing into multiplatform development. And again, IS were literally located INSIDE Nintendo's HQ building.
Second party is a misnomer. There are only first and third parties (based on viewpoints, like first and third person). Nintendo has a lot of close internal third party relationship people don't talk about, like SRD, Tose etc.
Wait, what did they do?
Didn't Nintendo just build Intelligent Systems a new building to work from? lol
We don't really know what Nintendo's plans are with DK. I don't think Retro has to do it. Monster Games did a great job with the 3DS version (they're doing NASCAR now).
Miyamoto said he believed Retro was big enough for two games. They could be doing another DKC game and another game.
We don't really know what Nintendo's plans are with DK. I don't think Retro has to do it. Monster Games did a great job with the 3DS version (they're doing NASCAR now).
Miyamoto said he believed Retro was big enough for two games. They could be doing another DKC game and another game.
Ah I completely missed that part in the thread. Thank you for correcting me. Was it directly stated that it was a Nintendo IP? Would something like Dark Souls 4 fit the bill?
If it's a Nintendo IP; I'm gonna hold false hope that Sakurai partnered with Namco again to develop the 4th entry in Kid Icarus. Uprising was an amazing game held back by the 3DS.
I'd be fine with essentially a Smash 4.5. Like Mario Kart 8, Smash 4 felt like the ultimate game in the series. Just for fun, I could see something like this:
-Smash 4 Switch announced in January Direct releasing June 2018. Trailer reveals Ice Climbers, Wolf and Snake return with 3DS & Wii U stages. Some old characters look and play a little differently. The engine also shows off more technically demanding things since the game is no longer held back by the 3DS.
- Spring direct reveals Inkling and Springman as well as new stages and items from their series. Announced to be released the week after E3.
- E3 direct unveils a new single player campaign and some of the modes such as Stage Builder are more fully featured. New characters such as Bomberman, Chorus Kids, Captain Toad, Marie(Callie alt costume) and Decidueye are revealed and their announcements are spread out for each day of E3. Nintendo does a Smash Test the weekend after E3 having versus mode along with some of the stages and characters to pick from. Full game releases the following Friday.
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Game Freak, HAL and IntSys are all independent. They do whatever they want. This is the most evident with Game Freak, but I would even argue you see this with IntSys. Their DLC strategy for Fire Emblem games has always stood out to me compared to other Nintendo properties, and I don't think it's a coincidence Fire Emblem Heroes pushed the free-to-play model so heavily around the time Nintendo stood up against it.
Naturally there are Nintendo producers working on their games. The big one is Hitoshi Yamagami who oversees most "second-party" games.
Hey, you rang?
. . .Anyway, I'm not sure if they'll announce something with the level of fanfare of Smash in January, but then they do have to sell the online service so who knows. This is the sole Nintendo franchise to revel in two year deeply drawn out windups instead of dropping within the year, though, so even though they can't really make a massive definition/poly jump like the last several entries I'm still deeply, deeply skeptical of a six month or less turnaround between reveal and release. But if we're speculating announcement order, I've been waiting for some Smash speculation to start back up. *cracks knuckles*
I'm placing my prediction on them leading with Inkling. They need to lead with a big IP so people have a reason to jump, and the player character from the most successful new IP Nintendo has is the most qualified character possible. It's also easy to frame with a fakeout if they go Smash 4 style with advertising, and the Splatoon 2 hairstyle setup gives a very easy Bowser Jr. level alt selection.
Normally an announcement is complimented by a third party drop and another first party newcomer, but that's for an E3 presentation. Not sure if they'd replicate it or not if they decided to go for January. What I do know is that if they at all want to make clear that there's new content, they're leading with completely new characters. Revived veterans can be peppered in between newcomer announcements to appeal to the core crowd, but there'd be confusion if they lead with them.
Other than that, I don't really have an order so much as an expectation that people are going to be thrown off by whatever happens. Ballot characters happen but the fandom as a whole didn't want what the echo chamber wanted, Pauline drops in out of nowhere singing Jump Up, Super Star and sporting some kind of crazy moveset, and Decidueye gets trolled by a Gen 8 Pokemon even if they have to go out of their way to announce the first Pokemon of the gen early to do it.
Yeah, the only Everybody's Golf Camelot did was the very first entry in the series before Masashi Muramori left and formed Clap Hanz with Sony's support. I thought ILikeFeet referred to something else on PS4.
1999 Mario Golf Nintendo Nintendo 64, Game Boy Color
2000 Mario Tennis
2001 Golden Sun Game Boy Advance
Mobile Golf Game Boy Color
2002 Golden Sun: The Lost Age Game Boy Advance
2003 Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour Nintendo GameCube
2004 Mario Golf: Advance Tour Game Boy Advance
Mario Power Tennis Nintendo GameCube
2005 Mario Tennis: Power Tour Game Boy Advance
2007 We Love Golf! Capcom Wii
2009 New Play Control! Mario Power Tennis Nintendo
2010 Golden Sun: Dark Dawn Nintendo DS
2012 Mario Tennis Open Nintendo 3DS
2014 Mario Golf: World Tour
2015 Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash Wii U
2017 Mario Sports Superstars Nintendo 3DS
This is Camelot's entire output since they started making games for Nintendo.
Speaking about Golden Sun, I don't even want Camelot to handle it. Dark Dawn turned out to be a dated bore of a game, for some reason Camelot thought that points of no return and random battles were still acceptable at the time. They really didn't want to modernize the formula at all despite that the series was crying for it.
Is really sad because Xenoblade Chronicles has pretty much replaced the spot that Golden Sun once had as the main Nintendo JRPG and let's be honest, it was for the better. I LOVED basically everything from the early GS games but XC is better in basically every aspect including story, presentation and depth (GS was better at puzzles and dungeons though).
Even if Golden Sun is somehow revived it would still need to compete with Nintendo's own games. The only solution would be to make the series go full 3D with expansive world exploration, seamless battle transitions and a deeper lore. The problem is that I don't think Camelot would be able to do it (not saying that top down 2.5 games shouldn't be made but I always thought that 3D was the next logical step for the franchise).
Is really sad because Xenoblade Chronicles has pretty much replaced the spot that Golden Sun once had as the main Nintendo JRPG and let's be honest, it was for the better. I LOVED basically everything from the early GS games but XC is better in basically every aspect including story, presentation and depth (GS was better at puzzles and dungeons though).
Even if Golden Sun is somehow revived it would still need to compete with Nintendo's own games. The only solution would be to make the series go full 3D with expansive world exploration, seamless battle transitions and a deeper lore. The problem is that I don't think Camelot would be able to do it (not saying that top down 2.5 games shouldn't be made but I always thought that 3D was the next logical step for the franchise).
I'd also like another dev to try their hand with Golden Sun, but with most Nintendo IPs made exclusively externally, I don't see anyone else taking the reigns. Which is unfortunate, because I agree that the next GS would require a much heftier investment from both Nintendo and Camelot, and I don't know if either is up to it.
I think you keep misunderstanding me, I'm already fully aware.
I was asking ILikeFeet what PS4 game he was referring to supposedly being by Camelot. Wasn't even thinking of EG anymore (in case ILikeFeet fell for that) as the split was decades ago.
I'm not, I'm just replying to you because your posts are right there and Feet isn't posting at the moment :)
OP
OP
Second-party is and always has been a colloquial/vernacular term in gaming. Nintendo "coined" the term second-party basically to distinguish the first-party games that were developed by RARE. The same era, SEGA was using the term 1.5 party to delineate games developed by European developers. It's all marketing and PR though.
Intelligent Systems is a first-party developer because they develop games for a first-party publisher. They've never paid licensing fees, which is what third party licensees essentially do. But it's not a static thing. We erroneously make theses lists that you have to be owned 100% to be a first-party developer, when we've seen plenty of cases where owned subsidiaries made third party games for other publishers. It's not a black and white thing all the time.
It's much more complicated than that. Their roots were based in two small Japanese programming companies that were contracted programmers that would assist Nintendo designers. This is exactly how HAL got their start to. But there was a few transformations of the company, including TEC Co., Ltd which Nintendo owned a huge chunk off, before this final IS form happened.
Exactly, Second-Party isn't a term that actually exists. Any game that is produced (IE Published, not always developed, unless it's a game published in different regions) by the platform holder is First-Party. Fire Emblem is a much of a first party game as Zelda is, despite not actually being developed in-house.
Exactly. For some reason in the internet it's only First-party in the case of Nintendo if it's developed internally by EPD, which doesn't make any sense.
It's a weird distinction that seems to only exist with Nintendo. It doesn't really matter if say, Ever Oasis is developed by a company not owned by Nintendo. Nintendo makes the agenda here. They pay for the development, they control the development cycle, the developers at Good Feel/Grezzo/Alpha Dream/HAL/IS/etc. report directly to Nintendo executives, and more often than not, Nintendo owns the copyright to the game. Nintendo has a hand in making most games they publish, even when they're not being developed by an in-house team or subsidiary.
I think what Soul Skater meant is that Smash doesn't have the same excuse as other Wii U games of being strictly stuck on a failed system because it was also a 3DS game.
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