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Sega AGES coming to Switch (by M2, eShop, 15+ classic titles starting this summer)
- Thread starter Hero of Legend
- Start date
The idea of having Neo Geo, Capcom, Nintendo and Sega classics all on a tiny device I can play anywhere is still mind boggling to me.
This would have been like a dream machine for me as a kid. All those machines in the arcade in the palm of my hand. Crazy!
This would have been like a dream machine for me as a kid. All those machines in the arcade in the palm of my hand. Crazy!
Hi, Sam Mullen here at SEGA/Atlus, producer of things and all that, I've worked with M2 for many years. I just wanted to pop in here quick for a couple of from-the-horse's-mouth things.
First, as always I'm so happy there is a thread where people are discussing about M2's work. It's always encouraging that there are fans out there who really do engage on this stuff.
Second, there's a couple of things I just wanted to pick up (I'm not singling anyone out, I just picked up some random quotes):
It's easy to think that Taxman and M2 are competing at the same thing, but in reality, they are in a totally different game.
M2 does this thing where they try to preserve the experience while playing by the rules of the original system to the fullest extent possible, and all the baggage that comes with that. This has one set of challenges and outcomes. I mean, have you seen thatFantasy Zone II DX interview?!
Taxman tries to preserve the experience despite the original platform. This has another set of challenges and outcomes. This is why he can modify and things that wouldn't really be possible under the original hardware rules, and gives him a lot of flexibilty on what he does.
The reality is that WE CAN HAVE BOTH because we live in a world where there's different ways to approach the same problem. Some want Taxman, and some want M2. That's awesome! But for this particular series, we have our friends at M2 on deck, and at least on our side, we are pretty stoked about it.
The localization of MW4 in the SEGA Vintage Collection was totally original, and done by Inbound Games. How do I know? I was the the producer on the project. It was actually a difficult translation project because the text files were straight ripped out of the ROM, and they weren't very friendly to work in.
Hi.
Yes, I agree. Do those things.
First, as always I'm so happy there is a thread where people are discussing about M2's work. It's always encouraging that there are fans out there who really do engage on this stuff.
Second, there's a couple of things I just wanted to pick up (I'm not singling anyone out, I just picked up some random quotes):
It's easy to think that Taxman and M2 are competing at the same thing, but in reality, they are in a totally different game.
M2 does this thing where they try to preserve the experience while playing by the rules of the original system to the fullest extent possible, and all the baggage that comes with that. This has one set of challenges and outcomes. I mean, have you seen thatFantasy Zone II DX interview?!
Taxman tries to preserve the experience despite the original platform. This has another set of challenges and outcomes. This is why he can modify and things that wouldn't really be possible under the original hardware rules, and gives him a lot of flexibilty on what he does.
The reality is that WE CAN HAVE BOTH because we live in a world where there's different ways to approach the same problem. Some want Taxman, and some want M2. That's awesome! But for this particular series, we have our friends at M2 on deck, and at least on our side, we are pretty stoked about it.
The localization of MW4 in the SEGA Vintage Collection was totally original, and done by Inbound Games. How do I know? I was the the producer on the project. It was actually a difficult translation project because the text files were straight ripped out of the ROM, and they weren't very friendly to work in.
Hi.
Yes, I agree. Do those things.
Null Pointer ,is it safe to assume these titles are coming to the western eShops as well? I would figure that is the case, but we haven't had any official announcements from Sega of America and Sega of Europe regarding these (correct me if I'm wrong on this). Though I suppose you tweeting about these is probably confirmation enough.
Of course! Hopefully all of them, though. I think we missed a few of the 3DS Sega Ages titles, at least for the individual releases.
I would just like to state that Fantasy Zone 1 and 2 on 3DS are some of the best titles on that system. Just bliss.
Hey, thanks for dropping by. I really appreciate SEGA/Atlus' support for the Switch thus far. A few questions. Are you able to talk about pricing for the SEGA AGES releases yet? Also about release order. Are we going to get the games in batches or more spread out, like a game every week or two? Really looking forward to the AGES line, love having more retro games on the system.
Also if M2 could bring Daytona USA 2 to Switch as part of the SEGA AGES line, that would be awesome.
Also hope that Valkyria Chronicles 1 Switch makes it here as well.
Give us Knuckles Chaotix with playable Sonic + Tails to fulfill the original Sonic Crackers/Stadium prototype
Also I dunno, a Tempo collection because rare Saturn game is RAAARRREEE.
Actually, I would gladly fill out a survey that asks us what games we'd like to see get the Sega Ages treatment. Would probably help collect all the requests people are having.
Also I dunno, a Tempo collection because rare Saturn game is RAAARRREEE.
Actually, I would gladly fill out a survey that asks us what games we'd like to see get the Sega Ages treatment. Would probably help collect all the requests people are having.
Hello, Sam. Can you confirm if these Switch M2 releases will have an option for a CRT shader, including a faithful representation of the original look of these games by including advanced scanlines, like the nice filters included in 'Sonic Mania' or in the Arcade Archives releases by Hamster?
Hi Sam,
I have a tough question. What the heck does someone have to do to get a remaster of Shining Force III or a proper (as in not Neo or Exa, those are action RPG's) Shining Force IV? I mean what you say about talking on social media is nice and all but many of us fans at shiningforcecentral.com have literally sent care packages, videos, letters, petitions, ect. to Sega a number of times and have gotten nothing in response. This is over the course of literal decades as well. I'm in no way trying to downplay what you are suggesting here I'm just saying, I don't know a more dedicated base of fans that have tried time and again to get Sega to hear us, only for our wishes to have fallen on deaf ears again and again. Yes, there is Shining Resonance Refrain on the way but I hope you'll understand for a fanbase that has been pleading for a long time that presenting a game that has no relation in either story nor gameplay to the original Shining series let alone Shining Force it can feel like a slap in the face to us after everything we've tried to do. Not trying to hate on that game at all but its not what anyone really wanted to see from Sega with this long running series. To put it another way, while Shenmue 3 had a massive fan reaction when it was announced if that game had been announced as say a mobile based card game with no story, people wouldn't have been happy. Thats what a lot of fans see with the Resonance Refrain announcement, Something drastically different then whats been desired and that piled up with how long its been I at least understand the anger many of my fellow fans feel towards Sega at how they've treated this fanbase over such a long period of time. Many just gave up, some a long time ago.
Thank you for your time.
As a consumer, let me tell you, every time I hear about another Sonic port that isn't from Taxman, it legitimately upsets me. I don't want your M2 port of Sonic 1. It is inferior. There is nothing the M2 port is doing better than Taxman's port.
WE CAN HAVE BOTH except your consumers are telling you they don't want both. They want the Taxman versions. Literally the only consumer ITT who wanted the M2 versions admits he hasn't played the Taxman versions at all. Playing off releasing an inferior port as some sort of win for consumers rights or whatever is baffling. Trying to say M1's Sonic 1 is a whole different game than Taxman's sonic 1 is some "Batman on WiiU is entirely different" schlop. Stop that.
And wonderboy in monster land?
Hey, just wanna say, thank you for help bringing the game to the rest of the world. It's such a nice thing there're people who care about it enough to go through all the localization works.
Edit:
Umm, I want both? Don't assume everyone shares the exact same opinion.
I doubt he will be able to answer any question like that. Maybe something more in line with how possible it even is to do a Saturn or DC port on a device like Switch?
Well hey, how's this for a compromise -- they actually give us both instead of dooming Taxman's games to fucking phones (and then breaking performance on said phones with Sega Forever). Like, you know, people have been asking for for 5 years now. It's been 5 years of begging for Taxman's Sonic 1 to come to anything besides a phone, and Sega expects people to be happy with an entirely different port that isn't doing nearly the same things, and telling us to be happy with both?
I guess the issue I have with that is that Taxman's conversions of the original sonic games are seen as the best versions. I own the 3D Sonic 1 and 2 games on the 3DS. While solid, they're not widescreen which is a decently big issue, I feel.
After Mania and the 3 Taxman games, it's hard to go back, at least for the Sonic games. I do know M2 is very talented at what they do and it's probably good they're handling the rest of the titles.
And, hey, I'd dig Sonic 3 which isn't in the other collection and is the only classic Sonic game I've yet to beat.
i also have some issues with the decision to skip the collection in favor of the AGES releases. While it's not all bad, to the average consumer it'll be $90 for 15 games vs $30 for 50 which seems like a bad deal, but I guess I'll air my grievances elsewhere
How much I gotta pay for Burner Rangers and Skies of Arcadia from M2. I have the greatest of needs!
Ok, I appreciate you jumping in here and doing what you're doing, but this is nothing more than a lame corporate talking point.
No one wants the M2 versions over the Taxman versions, or even in conjunction with them. The M2 versions of Sonic do not offer anything that the Taxman versions don't or can't. Take Sonic 1 on 3DS or iOS. The iOS version is in widescreen (something a number of gamers complain about the original games - literally every video AVGN makes where he talks about Sonic, he suggests widescreen remakes of the Genesis titles, apparently unaware of the iOS versions because they have not been released on any platform other than iOS/Android), eliminates a number of glitches and oddities from the Genesis experience (and just to be clear, these harm the experience), add Tails and Knuckles as playable characters and new routes to exploit their abilities. Sonic 1 on 3DS lets you spin dash. Which the Taxman version also does.
M2 is very good at what they do. But Taxman's Sonic 1 is absolutely the definitive version in this case. And like kreljooc said it's very upsetting when Sega shits out yet another ROM/emulator package when I've been dying to play Taxman's ports on the big screen with traditional controls.
As good as Taxman's versions of the sonic games are, they ruin my enjoyment with terrible crush detection because it makes levels like Chemical Plant a freakin' nightmare to play. Something that is not at all present in the original releases or the M2 version. Once Taxman can figure that out, that's when I'll recommend them more.
The only reason I brought it up was because he was talking about how to get Sega to notice what fans want. I get that its likely well out of his field let alone company (its up to Sega of Japan on what games they are going to make) but figured it was worth at least throwing the question out there to see if there was any insight he might be able to provide.
What if the things I want on this initiative aren't things Taxman does, but M2 does. Like is there a Taxman port done for Thunder Force? What's the problem here. If M2 is doing literally the entire thing, from genesis to arcade, it's probably easier logistically to have them do their own version rather than just have like 1 game in the pipeline of many outsourced and adapted from a different maker.
I am willing to bet that anything M2 does can be found in the literal hundreds upon hundreds of existing Sonic romhacks that are already out there. The opposite cannot be said (that there are rom hacks out there that do what Taxman's ports do).
Then M2 should skip Sonic entirely, and do some other game, rather than wasting their time working on a game which already has a definitive port. Not to mention that M2 releasing Sonic 1 on the switch likely blocks Taxman's Sonic 1 from ever releasing on Switch, or at least makes things extremely confusing.
I don't play much Sonic. I literally mean every other game coming out of this. Not Sonic.
Sonic is specifically what is being talked about. The question is why is M2 doing yet another port of Sonic, when a definitive version exists that people have been begging for? Why is M2 taking way time and effort to work on something that will be inferior at best? ESPECIALLY since M2's efforts are usually beyond normal ports, it's extra aggravating to have them waste that on Sonic 1. We don't need an M2 version of Sonic 1. There is already a built-from-ground-up-for-modern-systems port of Sonic 1.
I'll give you another example -- you know how every time Sega announces a new Sega Genesis rom pack collection, people complain and go "AGAIN?" And the common complaint is they keep doing the Sega Genesis over and over and over again, why can't they branch out and do more? This is the Exact. Same. Argument. We already have a fully unique port of Sonic 1. Why commission another enhanced port? Why not work on something else? Something never seen before?
Absolutely not presumptuous. There is literally no way their version of Sonic 1 will be widescreen. It's actually impossible given the original ROM. The way M2 does things, it's impossible to recreate the things Taxman has done. These limits are precisely why taxman and stealth rewrote the entire game from scratch. To get around those limitations.
The main problem with your example is that the Sega Ages initiative is precisely about being able to release games outside the Genesis library. And they are working on porting the titles we haven't seen from such collections before. Saying that they're wasting their time on another porting effort for a Sonic game is still presumptuous, just because it's taking up a part of the initial 15 titles does not mean it's disallowing them time on a different game to port over beyond those first wave of titles.
BOY THAT DESCRIBES SONIC THE HEDGEHOG TO A T, SURE IS THE PERFECT GAME FOR SEGA AGES THEN HUH
Oh wait
Haven't seen the original Sonic the Hedgehog and its Mega Play arcade form on the Switch yet.
Then your previous comment is literally meaningless gibberish
They were announced for global release when they were revealed (in Japanese... so yeah, a little confusing). I'm sure the international branches will have something to day on Monday.
ahhh nice! Thanks. I assumed these were coming... was just a little surprised none of the other branches said anything.
I'm in the boat of those preferring an exact emulated version of 'Sonic the Hedgehod', with zero new additions.
It's one of my all-time favorite games. And I want to play this in an emulated version with the same level of accuracy that GenesisPlus GX (a cycle accurate Megadrive emulator), with a CRT shader as good as the included in the Arcade Archives releases of Hamster.
I hope that any attempt of altering the game, like including a spin dash button, can be deactivated.
Simply, I want for the first time in a portable console, the game emulated in an accurate way, with a faithful recreation of the original look in an old TV.
And it doesn't matter how many times the game has been released before: it's still one my all-time favorite games, and Switch is the only system that I currently play. So I want all of my favorite games in the same system.
I even consider a sacrilege trying to adapt the design of the game to a 16/9 screen display. For me, this is not the experience intended by the original creators.
So let's not generalize in what the users are demanding.
It's one of my all-time favorite games. And I want to play this in an emulated version with the same level of accuracy that GenesisPlus GX (a cycle accurate Megadrive emulator), with a CRT shader as good as the included in the Arcade Archives releases of Hamster.
I hope that any attempt of altering the game, like including a spin dash button, can be deactivated.
Simply, I want for the first time in a portable console, the game emulated in an accurate way, with a faithful recreation of the original look in an old TV.
And it doesn't matter how many times the game has been released before: it's still one my all-time favorite games, and Switch is the only system that I currently play. So I want all of my favorite games in the same system.
I even consider a sacrilege trying to adapt the design of the game to a 16/9 screen display. For me, this is not the experience intended by the original creators.
So let's not generalize in what the users are demanding.
Null Pointer Thanks a bunch for reporting in and clearing things up Sam, not gonna add anymore questions for now because I'm sure you have your hands filled haha.
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Honestly as long as we get both Fantasy Zone I and II (and Super! Please port Super this time around!) and OutRun then I'm happy (and I kinda take these for granted anyway), the rest is gravy.
As for accuracy and the like, I think M2 always offers enhancements as options only, no? From spindash, to stage select and even stuff like the bonus boss in Fantasy Zone, those always have toggles in case the player wants the authentic experience.
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Honestly as long as we get both Fantasy Zone I and II (and Super! Please port Super this time around!) and OutRun then I'm happy (and I kinda take these for granted anyway), the rest is gravy.
As for accuracy and the like, I think M2 always offers enhancements as options only, no? From spindash, to stage select and even stuff like the bonus boss in Fantasy Zone, those always have toggles in case the player wants the authentic experience.
Super's a little trickier because Sunsoft made that game so it'd require an additional license to release--it's not impossible, of course, but I'm sure their priority is games they fully own.
I also wonder if the heavy focus on Fantasy Zone went over well internationally during the 3DS days... I remember the retail compilation getting a lot of eyerolls for including so many Fantasy Zone games.
I'm in the boat that isn't touching any version of Sonic 1 that isn't the Retro Engine ports these days (I own the game on too many platforms to justify spending money on regular ol' Sonic 1 anymore) but does realize that different people like different things and for a no fills, "pure" (4:3, no spindash, etc.) experience of the game with accurate emulation, there's really no one else out there that does it like M2.
And yeah, spindash is a toggle in the 3DS version of Sonic 1. I imagine it'll be the same here.
And yeah, spindash is a toggle in the 3DS version of Sonic 1. I imagine it'll be the same here.
I would insta buy if the version of thunder force IV has the TF3 ship like the Saturn port did.
Null Pointer thanks for taking time to come in here and chat.
Please keep us all updated when possible.
Thanks for all you guys and gals great work and support of the Switch too. Makes me one happy gamer, and allows my children to experience and enjoy the games that I also grew up with.
Please keep us all updated when possible.
Thanks for all you guys and gals great work and support of the Switch too. Makes me one happy gamer, and allows my children to experience and enjoy the games that I also grew up with.
I would like having both a pure original port of Sonic 1 and having the Taxman versions.
Ideally, Taxman versions would be a collection of 1,2,CD,3/S&K and Mania.
If 3 and Knuckles can't happen, I'd still take a proper collection of 1,2,CD and Mania with extras to unlock like the old Sonic collections.
Ideally, Taxman versions would be a collection of 1,2,CD,3/S&K and Mania.
If 3 and Knuckles can't happen, I'd still take a proper collection of 1,2,CD and Mania with extras to unlock like the old Sonic collections.
No, I will get this exact version. A perfect emulated version, in which all of the new features can be deactivated in the menu to have the purest recreation of the game in its original Megadrive form.
And you can play the arcade version, with its own unique quirks
Also I bet we get a racing game in this first wave, question is which one
A) you are aware that Taxman's versions are source ports, right? From the very people who disassembled the sources from scratch
B) you are aware that every "impure" option in Tax's ports can be disabled, right? Even 16:9. Tax's games actually still explicitly operate on the 4:3 enemy loading cues.
Source ports, but not emulated games.
Is like trying to compare the Zero Div releases of the Psikyo catalogue that are ports, with the emulated perfect versions released by Hamster.
All of that said, let's see how the Megadrive emulator of M2 evolves, because in its Wii version, it was far from a perfect, cycle accurate version, contrary to GenesisPlus GX. In most games you will not see any differences, but for example, due to not being cycle accurate, in 'Alien Solidier' there are subtle differences with a real Megadrive. While in GenesisPlus GX, 'Alien Soldier' is 100% faithful in every subtle detail.