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Deleted member 8136

User requested account closure
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Oct 26, 2017
1,004
Do you really think that there would be that much difference? Even if there was, it would surely only be for a couple of years before everyone saw what worked and went with it.

The rules were changed every year to combat the cool new thing until we ended up where we are today.

Let's take a rather recent example and remember the 2009 season. BrawnGP in their very first year came up with the revolutionary double diffusor. To the surprise of absolutely everyone they dominated the first races. Everyone was in a fever pitch to see how the next race would go. How quickly would the other teams be able to catch up? Would it be enough to get the title? Everything coming down to the last race.
That's what makes F1 so unique. The very cutting edge of prototype racing. Always banning the new stuff was the worst thing the FIA ever did. Yes, it cut costs, but as we see today only to a minimal degree.
Formula 1 racing lives and dies by its spectacularity. I mean, that's why we're still racing true freestanding wheels, no? Everything on the very edge: cars, engines, drivers.
As far as I'm concerned, we could ban any kind of radio contact from the cars to the pit. No talking to drivers, no telemetry data. Let the driver do his thing himself. Let's see engines, tyres and brakes blow up - the cars are safe enough by now to not risk the drivers' lifes doing so.
And get rid of a whole bunch of limitations. Set maximum length, height, width; set minimum weight. Give them only the softest tyre compounds to race with. Let drivers themselves decide when they come in to change them, as I said no radio contact.
Oh, and make a stipulation that engine manufacturers HAVE to sell the engines to every team that asks for them. Same price as for every other team. While freezing engine dev to where it is now.
 

Randdalf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,187
Still no tyre compounds on the timing graphics ☹️

Looks like McLaren have tweaked their sidepod vane again for FP2
 

zeknurn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,278
I don't see anything regarding today's commercial and power unit proposals that prohibits Brawn from changing the technical regulations to what you're suggesting Hammer24. We haven't got the whole picture yet which is probably why Liberty Media didn't announce the specifics.

The suggested budget cap might just be a necessary requirement to opening up development again without killing off all the privateer teams.
 
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Deleted member 8136

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,004
I don't see anything regarding today's commercial and power unit proposals that prohibits Brawn from changing the technical regulations to what you're suggesting Hammer24. We haven't got the whole picture yet which is probably why Liberty Media didn't announce the specifics.

The suggested budget cap might just be a necessary requirement to opening up development again without killing off all the privateer teams.

Don't get me wrong. I am not arguing against a salcap. I'm arguing against setting it too low, and not including everything.
 

DBT85

Resident Thread Mechanic
Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,414
Indeed, Brawn and his team found a loophole and exploited it, they were not the only one, they just did it better than the few others that did it. Then by the end of the season everyone had one and in part because brawn then had no money to spend, their car wasn't really competing for wins by race 8 of 17.

If we make these sweeping regulation changes you speak of, how long do you really think we'll get wacky races before all the teams converge on the same answer which is what they've done every time anything new pops up.

The manufacturers don't want their engines blowing up, sane people don't want to see a driver smashing in to a wall at 200mph because his brakes failed and nobody could tell him, regardless of how safe the cars are.

I'm all in favour of making the driver decide when to pit, but in murky conditions when we get the joy of seeing some on inters dancing around and some on wets, how would you have the driver communicate that choice to the team with no radio? Because if its one way radio then the drivers asks "should I come in" and the teams will put a board up at a designated corner, or something, to get around it. It's little different to banning team orders. Multi21 and suddenly team orders are still happening (when the driver doesn't act like a dick and ignore his team lol).

What F1 wants to be is exactly what you describe, the pinnacle of engineering know how and technology, right on the cutting edge of everything, pushing to the limit with minimal regulations, and once upon a time that's what the sport WAS because it could be. Money was everywhere and even a big team was nothing compared to what we have today. There are only 3 or 4 teams that can afford to even try in that magic formula today since tobacco sponsorship is gone and even regular sponsorship isn't bringing in the money like it used to. As we know from Indy '05, watching 6 cars trundle round isn't fun for anyone.

Lets not forget that Brawn didn't come up with their magic in their first year on a shoestring budget. It was bought and paid for by Honda before they tucked tail and ran, and I doubt they were running a budget closer to the Force Indias or Williams of the grid at that time, and in fact were nearer the Renaults and Toyotas. With unlimited funds and unlimited resources, with none of the pesky regulation, the likes of Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes can test out a multitude of options. What can Williams, or Sauber, or anyone else do?

The sport has changed and evolved from "the good old days" where cars were designed on paper and then tested to death on track and in the tunnel, designed and built by a small team where one mustachioed pipe smoking genius could simply look at a car, say "add a dangeflangle just there, about that long" and the car goes faster. Even the small teams are still spending bank because its the only way to do it. Do we want to see Merc, Ferrari and Red Bull running magic cars that run 6 seconds faster than everyone else because they have the resources and facilities to investigate every option, test till the sun goes down day after day in this new formula of barely any regulation at all? Where everyone has active suspension, skirts, fans, exotic alloys etc that once everyone has them, are now just expensive addons that don't actually differentiate anyone from anyone else?


I'd love a deregulated formula. Get some sheikh to stump up some crazy money and run a 40 race season with insane cars, engines and drivers that are certifiable for even trying to drive the cars. I'd LOVE that. But since that isn't ever going to happen what can we REALLY do to make F1 more interesting, more appealing and more random?

Find a way for teams to spend money better, rather than just more. Find a way to get cars close together again like "the good old days". Find a way to get more cars on the grid & more engines on the grid.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,765
Safety and team radio is a smokescreen. There's absolutely no reason they couldn't tell the driver when there was a problem and what to do to mitigate it.

The problem as usual was rushing a decision and ending up with it being half arsed and full of loopholes.
 

chuckddd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,321
DaHLpD7VwAEGjCJ.jpg
 

Moss

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,207
Oh dear, Ferrari copying Haas... Was it not supposed to be the other way around?

Kimi released with loose wheel.
 

AlsoZ

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,003
Marko again stirring some shit by saying Mercedes approached both Max and Vettel for a Mercedes seat but without any success, which lead to Lewis upping his asking price for the ongoing contract negotiations.

We'll find out eventually.
 

chadskin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,013
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/raikkonen-escapes-grid-penalty-bahrain-1022460/
Kimi Raikkonen has escaped a grid penalty at the Bahrain Grand Prix despite his car being released from the pits with a loose wheel after a practice pitstop error.
The FIA is strict when it comes to cars being allowed back on track with loose wheels in practice sessions, and the normal procedure is for a grid penalty to be imposed.

However, following a stewards hearing, it was decided that such a harsh sanction was not needed on this occasion because Ferrari had done everything possible to minimise the risks of the wheel coming off.
Ricciardo sure could've used some of that leniency in Australia.
 

Randdalf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,187
Lando so quick he can make a mistake and still get pole. Looks tasty between him and Russell.

Was beginning to think De Vries was massively overrated until that last lap.
 

AndyD

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,602
Nashville
I think F1 should implement a token system where depending on the results, each team would get a certain number of tokens to improve their cars. For example, Mercedes gets the pole and wins the race. They get zero tokens after that race, while Force India gets like 10 tokens, and Sauber gets 20. So, for example, developing a new front wing would cost 15 tokens, then Sauber would be allowed to bring a new wing to the next race if they manage to develop one. Force India would have to wait a little longer, while the development on teams like Mercedes would be practically frozen. With a system like that the bigger teams would be forced to spend less in development through out the season, and smaller teams would be able to catch up.
Problem with this is leapfrogging. Since there is a finite number of races, you can strategically wait to bring your upgrades until the opposition won't have time to bring theirs, despite having tokens available.
 

AlsoZ

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,003
He's gonna have a much easier time overtaking in Bahrain than in Australia, but I can see Ferrari opting for a more top-speed heavy setup like in Australia to fend him off from behind.
This might be one of those weekends where Bottas' value as a #2 driver is tested.
 

endlessflood

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,693
Australia (GMT+10)
Aston Martin does not have the budget, the people or the technology to make F1 power units. They currently buy engines from Mercedes and rebadge them for their road cars.
Is that a reasonably new thing? I thought they commissioned Cosworth to design their road car V12.


I would personally not shed a single tear over Mercedes after how much damage they've done to the perception of this sport with their domination borne from high budget professionalism
Well said. The FIA can make all the changes they want, but until they stamp out the biggest evil facing F1 today - professionalism - nothing will change. Why they haven't banned professionalism is beyond me.

:p
 

Moss

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,207
Today marks the 50th anniversary of Jim Clark's death. The double Formula One world champion was killed in a crash during a Formula 2 race in Germany on 7 April 1968.

Some On-board footage of the man in action.



Undoubtedly one of the greatest racers to have ever lived.

Formula 1 World Champion, 1963 and 1965
72 Grand Prix starts, 25 Wins, 33 Pole Positions
Winner Indianapolis 500, 1965
 

DBT85

Resident Thread Mechanic
Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,414
From Toto

However, Mercedes chief Wolff told Sky Sports in Bahrain that number did not include several areas of spending, and that the biggest teams would not be able to reduce their budgets to that level.

"That number needs to be seen in perspective, because marketing is excluded, drivers are excluded, lots of other activities are excluded," Wolff said.

"There is lots that we do as a manufacturer where we do work for the power unit that is for the benefit of customers as well.

"So that number is much too low for the big teams, but if you look into the detail, we need to work with Liberty and find a compromise.

"That number will not be achievable, but maybe something sensible [can be] - we are all living in the same financial reality.

"When you add all the extra bits that are being excluded, you are probably at a much higher number than $150m, maybe $250m, then suddenly it doesn't look so crazy any more.
 

zeknurn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,278
So Pirelli is going to change tyres pressure again to help Mercedes and RB. Is this 2013 part 2?

Wait, is this addition into changing the construction of the tyres to prevent the Mercedes blistering? I read they're doing this based on safety reasons which allows them to bypass approval which is horseshit.
 

AlsoZ

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,003
What ever happened to teams fixing their own problems? I mean if this was something several teams were vocally worried about, sure, but ONE team? Gonna be interesting how everyone in the paddock reacts.
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,199
Chesire, UK
Ah yes, that notorious anti-Ferrari bias that has plagued F1 for decades.

That is definitely a thing, everyone is definitely out to get Ferrari and they certainly haven't been the consistent benefactors of any and all decisions made by the FIA.
 

Dan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,967
Russell almost planted it into the wall with his start. Meanwhile Norris is GONE.
 

Deleted member 11018

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,419
I mean it makes sense...
Pirelli, an Italian company, doesn't want Ferrari, in Italian company, to win.

I was joking on my front, it is well known Provera and Marchionne are buddies from ConsIUSA who don't agree thaaat much on politics but are still buddies. For example, Pirelli is producing modern tires tech in the old 250GTO form factor, so that billionaires can drive safely their precious Ferraris :)
However i am convinced on the point, that it is not a security measure if true, it's more because they don't want people to think Pirrelis are junk (which they a... err... sorry ).

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