TransEra |ERA1| We're People, Okay?

Boddy · Nov 5, 2017

pigeon_interrupted said:
Don't be intimidated. Get the ball rolling and try to enjoy everyday for what it is. I used to have like laser focus on my transition and it drove me bonkers :)

I know I should calm down, but I can't help myself but to be super excited.
There is so much stuff that need to get done that I want to get to it right now.

Today I looked into SRS and while it sounds very scary, I still want it.
At least the postive statements of many post-op transwoman are very reassuring.
I know it's still very much possible that I change my mind about these things, but I want to as informed as I can be.

pigeon_interrupted · Nov 5, 2017

Boddy said:
I know I should calm down, but I can't help myself but to be super excited.
There is so much stuff that need to get done that I want to get to it right now.

Today I looked into SRS and while it sounds very scary, I still want it.
At least the postive statements of many post-op transwoman are very reassuring.
I know it's still very much possible that I change my mind about these things, but I want to as informed as I can be.

My comment to you was probably more a reflection on myself; sorry. I get a bit obsessive with things in general and my transition was one of those things. I didn't leave time for anything else in my life and became frustrated when things weren't progressing as fast as or how I liked.

Being informed and knowing what to expect is the best way to be. And you have an understanding partner which I'm sure helps a lot.

Honestly, you sound like you are on top of things and have a healthy outlook, imho ;D

I'm pre-op and still mulling over my options, tbh. I kind of understand how you feel.

Boddy · Nov 5, 2017

I don't think I'm that different.
For now I mostly keep my thirst for action in check by doing research and buying the stuff I need for my new life.
I will probably get frustarted soon enough ,once I have done everything I could and have to play the waiting game.

srhltmr · Nov 5, 2017

srhltmr said:
So today is the day. My appointment for HRT is at 1:30.

Hoping I leave with a script.

Just as a follow-up, I did in fact leave with a prescription.

Started on 1mg of Estrace on Friday.

Robin · Nov 6, 2017

https://laurakbuzz.com/2017/11/06/as-a-trans-woman-the-church-pushed-me-away-from-faith/

Laura K posted this essay this morning about her experiences with growing up in the church, she expressed a sentiment that very much echoes my own and I think it's worth a read.

Boddy · Nov 6, 2017

This reminds me that I still need to leave the church.
The last thing I kind of cared about was a wedding, but I don't think they would approve of a lesbian marriage that involves a trans woman.

Heart of Poumn · Nov 6, 2017

Robin said:
https://laurakbuzz.com/2017/11/06/as-a-trans-woman-the-church-pushed-me-away-from-faith/

Laura K posted this essay this morning about her experiences with growing up in the church, she expressed a sentiment that very much echoes my own and I think it's worth a read.

I was recently suggested a couple of churches to use as a support group by a pride community. I quickly dismissed that idea. I can't imagine the experience being all that positive.

Robin · Nov 6, 2017

I definitely share her sentiment about LGBT churches.

Boddy · Nov 6, 2017

Finally got to wear a dress that fits me.
I was so happy I almost cried. I couldn't wear it for too long since my mother doesn't know it yet and would be back soon.
She isn't feeling to well, so I will wait till next week to tell her.

Llyrwenne · Nov 6, 2017

I'm happy to see it's getting so cozy in here. ^w^

My mood has been swinging up and down a bit over the last few days. I just switched out all my clothes to anticipate the colder weather, and 90% of my clothes are just what I still have from before I even realized. I want to get out and change it all up, but feel my current body shape makes it difficult, I have no idea what to look for, and I have barely any time to even go out due to study-related work.

On the plus side, I genuinely feel better now that I've been on hormones for a while. Perhaps that is just a placebo effect, but an effect is an effect. ^w^
I also feel some changes starting to happen in my chest area, which is much earlier than I expected.

maritroniuity · Nov 6, 2017

As of today, I've been on HRT for eight months!

Blairbat · Nov 7, 2017

That is great maritroniuity! I hope everything goes well!

.

shinespark · Nov 8, 2017

Hey everyone! I don't know where I stand exactly, but it's becoming more and more clear to me lately that I'm trans or at the very least genderqueer. I'm pretty trepidatious about the whole thing and I don't really know how to talk about it, but I just wanted to say hi and to express how awesome it is that this community exists and is so welcoming.

pigeon_interrupted · Nov 8, 2017

maritroniuity said:
As of today, I've been on HRT for eight months!

Congrats!

Boddy said:
Finally got to wear a dress that fits me.
I was so happy I almost cried. I couldn't wear it for too long since my mother doesn't know it yet and would be back soon.
She isn't feeling to well, so I will wait till next week to tell her.

I hope it goes well for you, Boddy!

Llyrwenne said:
I'm happy to see it's getting so cozy in here. ^w^
My mood has been swinging up and down a bit over the last few days. I just switched out all my clothes to anticipate the colder weather, and 90% of my clothes are just what I still have from before I even realized. I want to get out and change it all up, but feel my current body shape makes it difficult, I have no idea what to look for, and I have barely any time to even go out due to study-related work.
On the plus side, I genuinely feel better now that I've been on hormones for a while. Perhaps that is just a placebo effect, but an effect is an effect. ^w^
I also feel some changes starting to happen in my chest area, which is much earlier than I expected.

Sounds like an opportunity to fill out your winter wardrobe - the best wardrobe. I've just bought some cute hoodies, fur lined boots and a parker coat with massive fur. I still feel cold though :(

Robin said:
https://laurakbuzz.com/2017/11/06/as-a-trans-woman-the-church-pushed-me-away-from-faith/
Laura K posted this essay this morning about her experiences with growing up in the church, she expressed a sentiment that very much echoes my own and I think it's worth a read.

Thanks for the read. A little upsetting but not unexpected. I'm sorry you've also had to go through that, too. It's actually something I've been thinking about recently.

I've been through some pretty traumatic stuff and that has ignited an interest in spirituality and religion. My dad's not religious but my mum is a non-practicing Christian. I was brought up Christian but wasn't that interested in religion at the time and haven't been to church as an adult (except funerals).

My local church has a big poster outside proclaiming "We welcome all sorts!" (All Sorts are candy variety bag in the UK) There's one candy off on its own captioned as saying "Even me?" And all the other candies reply "Yep!"

It's an attractive proposition and hopeful message but in reality I think there may be... caveats. I've been at a low point emotionally and every time I pass that poster, I think of popping into a service because it would be interesting (for me) to speak to a minister.

But maybe I'm looking to the wrong place for support. Christianity seems to be at odds with us on how we should be treated.

BUT I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt and assume they are as welcoming as the poster outside says they are since different congregations are made up of different people.

I'm still undecided on if I should put myself through a possibly negative experience to satiate my curiosity.

papasmurf said:
Hey everyone! I don't know where I stand exactly, but it's becoming more and more clear to me lately that I'm trans or at the very least genderqueer. I'm pretty trepidatious about the whole thing and I don't really know how to talk about it, but I just wanted to say hi and to express how awesome it is that this community exists and is so welcoming.

Hey o/

Mikachu · Nov 8, 2017

5 months anniversary on HRT next week and my doctor said I need to start looking into bras so my breasts develop properly.

Best feeling

Winter time nipples not best feeling though

Ketkat · Nov 8, 2017

So, I've got a job interview tomorrow and it has me thinking. Is it better to be upfront about being trans in the interview or should I just not tell them and continue transitioning/keep long hair and just let them figure it out on their own? I'm a little worried about it just straight up killing any chances of getting the job in the interview, but I'd rather not have to keep pretending that I'm not transitioning like I have to do with my family. Ideally, I'd rather no one at work knew I was trans, but going full time/changing name isn't really possible without money and being away from my family.

Geirskogul · Nov 8, 2017

Do not disclose that you are trans. present as your AAB gender at the interview and use your birth name. Even if the hiring manager him/herself is not transphobic, they will know that some clients or co-workers will find it uncomfortable, and that alone will be enough for them to drop any consideration of hiring you.

It is much more difficult for a firm to fire you for being trans than it is to simply not hire you in the first place. That's not to say it doesn't happen, as over 50% have reported losing a job for coming out, but your chances of retaining gainful employment while transitioning on the job is mych greater than getting hired as an open and visible trans person in the first place.

Boddy · Nov 8, 2017

I think my sister and father are still in denial about me.
She is saying and asking strange things and he says I shouldn't tell anyone else till I talked to a theapist.
At lesat my gf is amazingly supportive. She already gave me a lot stuff she doesn't need anymore and keeps looking for other ways of helping me.

Llyrwenne · Nov 8, 2017

Boddy said:
I think my sister and father are still in denial about me.
She is saying and asking strange things and he says I shouldn't tell anyone else till I talked to a theapist.
At lesat my gf is amazingly supportive. She already gave me a lot stuff she doesn't need anymore and keeps looking for other ways of helping me.

It may just be that they need time, or that they are concerned for your well-being, but I can't really say as I do not know them or what they said. Do you feel like you can talk to them about it?

I don't believe your father should have the final say in how you choose to present yourself, who you choose to share your identity with, or when you choose to do so. This is perhaps grossly premature advice, but I want to give it anyway: If they ever turn to denying you your identity, you should remember that family is defined by more than just blood.

Etain · Nov 8, 2017

Geirskogul said:
Do not disclose that you are trans. present as your AAB gender at the interview and use your birth name. Even if the hiring manager him/herself is not transphobic, they will know that some clients or co-workers will find it uncomfortable, and that alone will be enough for them to drop any consideration of hiring you.

It is much more difficult for a firm to fire you for being trans than it is to simply not hire you in the first place. That's not to say it doesn't happen, as over 50% have reported losing a job for coming out, but your chances of retaining gainful employment while transitioning on the job is mych greater than getting hired as an open and visible trans person in the first place.

To be less pessimistic: look into local laws and the policies of the companies you apply to. I'd err on the side of caution and some places can probably still have someone pulling jerk moves, but it might actively be illegal to discriminate against you or a company is SUPPOSED to be welcoming of LGBT, nevermind when the two stack together. Probably also a good litmus test for if a place will be a problem or not!

Ketkat · Nov 8, 2017

Geirskogul said:
Do not disclose that you are trans. present as your AAB gender at the interview and use your birth name. Even if the hiring manager him/herself is not transphobic, they will know that some clients or co-workers will find it uncomfortable, and that alone will be enough for them to drop any consideration of hiring you.

It is much more difficult for a firm to fire you for being trans than it is to simply not hire you in the first place. That's not to say it doesn't happen, as over 50% have reported losing a job for coming out, but your chances of retaining gainful employment while transitioning on the job is mych greater than getting hired as an open and visible trans person in the first place.

Makes sense. I was hoping that I was being a little paranoid just because I'm tired of having to go out in guymode all the time.

Boddy · Nov 8, 2017

Llyrwenne said:
It may just be that they need time, or that they are concerned for your well-being, but I can't really say as I do not know them or what they said. Do you feel like you can talk to them about it?

I don't believe your father should have the final say in how you choose to present yourself, who you choose to share your identity with, or when you choose to do so. This is perhaps grossly premature advice, but I want to give it anyway: If they ever turn to denying you your identity, you should remember that family is defined by more than just blood.

I don't think it will go that badly,because they genuinely care for me.
This isn't easy for them,too , and I think I'm just overreacting.
Still, I feel a little rejected and that hurts.

Geirskogul · Nov 8, 2017

Eusis said:
To be less pessimistic: look into local laws and the policies of the companies you apply to. I'd err on the side of caution and some places can probably still have someone pulling jerk moves, but it might actively be illegal to discriminate against you or a company is SUPPOSED to be welcoming of LGBT, nevermind when the two stack together. Probably also a good litmus test for if a place will be a problem or not!

The thing is, its almost impossible to prove that an employer chose not to hire you because of your gender identity. While it can still be hard to prove discrimination or a hostile environment while actively employed, there's a greater chance there will be some kind of paper trail and you will have your past performance to point towards as well (assuming you were a good employee and had no poor performance evaluations prior to coming out). Hence why its better to come out after you have worked at a place for a while instead of disclosing it early on during the interview or training process.

Also, I wouldn't put any faith into company-specific anti-discrimination policies. Those mostly exist for PR purposes and rarely reflect the actual culture of the organization. Firms have had those on the basis of sex and race for decades, but that hasn't stopped widespread discrimination and mistreatment of women and PoC across all industries.

Deleted member 26684 · Nov 8, 2017

Hi. I'm afraid to even suggest what I am because I haven't really known for a very long time. There are four situations I'm concerned about, and Google isn't making this easy, so I thought I'd ask here. I'm getting mixed signals and I don't know which signals to trust. I do not intend any ill will with anything in this post.

1. First and foremost, I am concerned about this article. It makes sense to me and I largely agree with it (particularly the bits about usage history), but everything else I see in this sphere gives me the impression that this is the wrong thing to do. On the other hand, I've never seen anyone take issue with Julia Serano other than TERFs and other vile types. I would like to put the principles in this article into practice with a mandatory disclaimer and link to this article, but I have no idea if even that is a huge mistake.

2. It is very clear to me that being transgender is not a choice for many people, but is it possible for it to be a choice at all, for some individual out there? What if you are actually satisfied with how you were assigned, but dissatisfied with how you are expected to be according to others, and you want to resist that expectation in a big way? I am definitely not just talking about some knee-jerk thing, but a longstanding belief in this. If this is not a point where you would be transgender, what would you actually be? Is such a person actually lying to themselves all along, despite not feeling very pressured to and otherwise feeling comfortable?

3. With that in mind, I'm not actually sure what the difference between 'gender' and 'sex' is anymore. My understanding for many years has been that gender and sex are very different things, and that gender is a social construct; this makes perfect sense to me, and I have always agreed with it. But I don't know how to reconcile 'gender', a thing that also seems to be important enough to the body for people to get surgery and treatments over it, being a thing distinct from 'sex', a thing that's supposed to be directly related to a person's body in general. What is the real difference? Shouldn't they be synonyms at a certain point? Is the issue that sex is referring to the wrong thing altogether? But then what happens to the word gender when sex adequately describes the situation? I have had it suggested that gender specifically refers to the mind to reconcile this, but... even "gender is a social construct" is something I've gotten numerous ways about; I've been told many times that is a very off thing to say within this sphere, yet I have also seen numerous examples of it being used within this sphere. This also feeds back into my confusion over just how important gender is to the body.

4. This is probably the one that troubles me the most. Continuing from above, I have no idea what to do about the very touchy subject of sexual orientation. I have seen this go in every single possible way by every single possible group of people, and it's left me feeling scared and confused about telling anyone about my orientation or ever acting on my orientation for any reason. I feel that, in the end, my orientation is discriminatory, but that it is not wrong and not something I wish to change, if I even can. I have no idea what a non-discriminatory orientation is except to truly open yourself up to everyone... I don't know of very many people within this sphere who are willing to do that, and it clearly goes beyond the definition of 'orientation' if you can just change it like that.

I truly do not know these things, and I don't know who to turn to about it except what seems to be a pretty wonderful thread of people who seem to really care about this. Hours and hours of Googling have not decisively solved these problems for me, and it was because of these hours that I'm making this post. I feel that I need to solve these problems in order to get on with my own identity.

edit: ohhh goodness, I just realized I probably should have posted this in the main LGBT thread

LastPaige · Nov 9, 2017

R.I.S. said:
Hi. I'm afraid to even suggest what I am because I haven't really known for a very long time. There are four situations I'm concerned about, and Google isn't making this easy, so I thought I'd ask here. I'm getting mixed signals and I don't know which signals to trust. I do not intend any ill will with anything in this post.

1. First and foremost, I am concerned about this article. It makes sense to me and I largely agree with it (particularly the bits about usage history), but everything else I see in this sphere gives me the impression that this is the wrong thing to do. On the other hand, I've never seen anyone take issue with Julia Serano other than TERFs and other vile types. I would like to put the principles in this article into practice with a mandatory disclaimer and link to this article, but I have no idea if even that is a huge mistake.

2. It is very clear to me that being transgender is not a choice for many people, but is it possible for it to be a choice at all, for some individual out there? What if you are actually satisfied with how you were assigned, but dissatisfied with how you are expected to be according to others, and you want to resist that expectation in a big way? I am definitely not just talking about some knee-jerk thing, but a longstanding belief in this. If this is not a point where you would be transgender, what would you actually be? Is such a person actually lying to themselves all along, despite not feeling very pressured to and otherwise feeling comfortable?

3. With that in mind, I'm not actually sure what the difference between 'gender' and 'sex' is anymore. My understanding for many years has been that gender and sex are very different things, and that gender is a social construct; this makes perfect sense to me, and I have always agreed with it. But I don't know how to reconcile 'gender', a thing that also seems to be important enough to the body for people to get surgery and treatments over it, being a thing distinct from 'sex', a thing that's supposed to be directly related to a person's body in general. What is the real difference? Shouldn't they be synonyms at a certain point? Is the issue that sex is referring to the wrong thing altogether? But then what happens to the word gender when sex adequately describes the situation? I have had it suggested that gender specifically refers to the mind to reconcile this, but... even "gender is a social construct" is something I've gotten numerous ways about; I've been told many times that is a very off thing to say within this sphere, yet I have also seen numerous examples of it being used within this sphere. This also feeds back into my confusion over just how important gender is to the body.

4. This is probably the one that troubles me the most. Continuing from above, I have no idea what to do about the very touchy subject of sexual orientation. I have seen this go in every single possible way by every single possible group of people, and it's left me feeling scared and confused about telling anyone about my orientation or ever acting on my orientation for any reason. I feel that, in the end, my orientation is discriminatory, but that it is not wrong and not something I wish to change, if I even can. I have no idea what a non-discriminatory orientation is except to truly open yourself up to everyone... I don't know of very many people within this sphere who are willing to do that, and it clearly goes beyond the definition of 'orientation' if you can just change it like that.

I truly do not know these things, and I don't know who to turn to about it except what seems to be a pretty wonderful thread of people who seem to really care about this. Hours and hours of Googling have not decisively solved these problems for me, and it was because of these hours that I'm making this post. I feel that I need to solve these problems in order to get on with my own identity.

edit: ohhh goodness, I just realized I probably should have posted this in the main LGBT thread

Hey there R.I.S that's a lot of questions at once. I'll do my best to answer how I understand this stuff from my experience. One thing to keep in mind is that everyone is their own person and therefore is probably going to have different opinions on certain things.

Alright, first that article. It seems like a stance that some people in minority groups follow. It honestly all depends on the person and how patient and understanding they have the ability to be. Some people who have insults hurled at them are never going to be able to just stay calm and talk it out. Others are going to try to change the person's mind. These groups of people might not agree but that doesn't mean they can't see the other sides argument. Honestly on this one I'm not sure what to say. Maybe I'm just not sure exactly what you're asking.

Second question time. Boy this is some high concept stuff so sorry if I can't give you the answer you're looking for. For me being transgender is not a choice. There are choices that are part of it, like whether you need to transition, how far you go down the path, etc. But the deep truth of it (for me) was feeling like there was a disconnect between my body and who I was. I didn't really think about it until puberty, then all of the sudden that beard that I'd always wanted came in and instead of being happy I started to feel like something was really wrong. I didn't click it all together for a long time because I just wasn't presented with the idea of being trans until then. Instead of wishing to be manlier and for my voice to get deeper now I was reluctant to cut my hair and upset about my hairy chest and and hated my so much of what was happening. All the time that I'd just gotten by because I had long hair and was skinny was catching up to me and I got slammed hard by this feeling that I wasn't supposed to be changing like this. I would pray to God at first for just one day to wake up as girl, for one day only of course (I still didn't know what was going on with me somehow). Then I turned to thinking that if I believed in magic it would become real and work. And finally I stopped lying to myself about being a boy and looked stuff up and things clicked together. This is my experience just to tell you how much I couldn't control any of it. There was no choice, there was only knowing that I was born in the wrong body and I needed to do something about it. But everyone has differing levels of gender dysphoria. I got a decent dose but there are people that can go their whole lives without transitioning because they're happy enough with just understanding who they are and having the people close to them know and respect that.

The third point ties into the second and all depends on you. Sorry if that's not good enough. Your own brain tells you how important gender is. The only way I understand it is sex usually refers to the body while gender is a spectrum full of tons of varying definitions, but that's probably not right. Again sorry if this doesn't help but a lot of the answers depend on the person.

Final question and I'll try to keep this short, I felt like I rambled a lot. Orientation is a hard one but an easy part is you're attracted to what you're attracted to. While it would be wonderful if we could all love everyone without any prerequisites for most people it doesn't shake out that way. It could be men, women, nothing, etc, it's all just a part of who you are and I don't think you should worry about what other people think as long as you're not hurting anyone.

I feel like I didn't really answer anything, but that's the best I got. Sorry if I said anything stupid, this is all just my limited personal experience.

Boddy · Nov 9, 2017

Being transgender isn't a choice, since you can't control your feelings like that.
You can influcen them, supress them, sometimes they are stronger or weaker, but they never truely goes away.
As I can tell you myself, you don't necessarily have to hate the gender that was give to you at birth, but simple that you would (very much) prefer the opposite gender.

Of course these is also the possibility of being non-binary, but I don't know too much about that.

Kaywee · Nov 11, 2017

Robin said:
I definitely share her sentiment about LGBT churches.

I have similar feelings in regards to the church and their views on the LGBTQ. I am trans woman who still works as a teacher in a Catholic scool system and the intolerance is finally starting to wear me down after a few short years. I live in a place where you can no longer be fired for your gender identity but that doesn't mean they won't make your life shitty enough to get you to quit.

The priests from the local churches all came out to denounce me because a trans woman couldn't possibly teach catholic values and a lot of my former students purposely refer to me as Mr. despite being corrected. I can't use that bigotry as a teachable moment and basically have to hide the fact that I am transgender.

I had some great staff members backing me as much as they could, which is why I stuck it out for so long. However it is at the point where I am so heartbroken by the students and the faith that I devoted so much time and energy towards that I started to embrace Atheism.

It becomes impossible to love a faith that clearly doesn't love you

pigeon_interrupted · Nov 11, 2017

Kaywee said:
I have similar feelings in regards to the church and their views on the LGBTQ. I am trans woman who still works as a teacher in a Catholic scool system and the intolerance is finally starting to wear me down after a few short years. I live in a place where you can no longer be fired for your gender identity but that doesn't mean they won't make your life shitty enough to get you to quit.

The priests from the local churches all came out to denounce me because a trans woman couldn't possibly teach catholic values and a lot of my former students purposely refer to me as Mr. despite being corrected. I can't use that bigotry as a teachable moment and basically have to hide the fact that I am transgender.

I had some great staff members backing me as much as they could, which is why I stuck it out for so long. However it is at the point where I am so heartbroken by the students and the faith that I devoted so much time and energy towards that I started to embrace Atheism.

It becomes impossible to love a faith that clearly doesn't love you

That's awful. I can't imagine working in such an environment. Students being shown that it's okay to be so disrespectful and discriminatory by seniors in the church, smfh. You need to get yourself out of that toxic environment ASAP.

I work in a college (not teaching) and the staff have been pretty great. I know that if a student tries that with me that I have the backing of the entire chain of command. And there's a lot of LGBT awareness in non-secular educational establishments including support groups. I guess it also depends on what age you teach. Good luck :)

Kaywee · Nov 11, 2017

pigeon_interrupted said:
That's awful. I can't imagine working in such an environment. Students being shown that it's okay to be so disrespectful and discriminatory by seniors in the church, smfh. You need to get yourself out of that toxic environment ASAP.

I work in a college (not teaching) and the staff have been pretty great. I know that if a student tries that with me that I have the backing of the entire chain of command. And there's a lot of LGBT awareness in non-secular educational establishments including support groups. I guess it also depends on what age you teach. Good luck :)

I am in the process of leaving now and I will hopefully get my life sorted out again in the new year

Robin · Nov 11, 2017

Kaywee said:
I am in the process of leaving now and I will hopefully get my life sorted out again in the new year

That's good at least, just being a questioning student in Catholic School felt insurmountable, I couldn't imagine being out as a teacher in that kind of environment. We would frequently have masses where the homily would basically be "don't be gay y'all" and then we'd be filed back into our religion classes where the teacher would have an "open discussion" about it which basically amounted to the teacher pointing to the "correct" answer and me getting dogpiled as the only "LGBT ally", which kept me in the closet for years. Shit can get to you.

Boddy · Nov 11, 2017

Me finding a job in about 2.5 years is going to be pretty tough, isn't it?

Geirskogul · Nov 11, 2017

Boddy said:
Me finding a job in about 2.5 years is going to be pretty tough, isn't it?

I wish I could tell you that it wouldn't matter but that would be a lie.

Employment discrimination is probably the biggest issue that trans people face, everything else can be traced back to that (elevated poverty rate, suicide rate, homelessness rate, HIV rate)

All of the older (post college age) trans women I know at my local support group essentially live dual-lives, presenting as male in their professional lives, and as female in their personal lives. The risk of retaliation is simply too high.

I will echo my earlier advice in the thread: unless you can pass and all your documents are updated, you'll be better off remaining closeted when applying and interviewing for jobs, and then coming out on the job after you've been there for a while.

Additionally, look for roles in state and local government as well. Most public sector employees are covered under CBAs which prevents you from getting fired unless your employer can prove that its related to performance issues. They can't as easily fire you for being Trans and then make up a fake reason afterwards like private sector firms can.

Xan · Nov 11, 2017

I would add, in the interests of not making this discussion too horribly depressing, that the employment thing is going to vary depending on where you live, and the field you work in. Some fields have traditionally been more open to queer people than others. If you live somewhere with a visible and active queer community, that also helps.

For instance: I live in Salt Lake City and I know a lot of openly trans professionals. The fact that the community is so big and so visible here has a demystifying effect. I've heard from acquaintances of some employers being positively excited to have hired a trans person: "Oh, you can speak about trans issues at our next whatever seminar!" Which is actually a bit weird - most people just want to do their bloody job without being signed up for extra shit - but at least it's a positive response.

There will be discrimination, and it will mostly be completely invisible to you. You'll never know if you didn't get job X because you're trans, or if there were 200 applicants and they just went for someone in-house. Many of us have things about us that are going to trigger biases in certain employers. But take heart. Being trans isn't a one-way ticket to unemployment. You may have to be more persistent than cis folks, but there are people who will want to hire you nonetheless.

Geirskogul · Nov 11, 2017

Xan said:
Some fields have traditionally been more open to queer people than others.

On that particular note, I'd like to add that despite the (completely deserved) criticism that the Tech industry receives for its treatment of women and PoC, it's probably the safest white collar industry to work in as a trans person. While it's unlikely that the firm would do anything to stop any harassment you might recieve, they're significantly less likely to dismiss you outright for being trans compared to older and more conservative industries like Law, Finance, Consulting, and Medicine. Ultimately, if you can code, a firm is willing to overlook any "deviant" or "unfortunate" character traits you might have.

Granted all of this is purely anecdotal, but of all the Trans women I know who are gainfully employed (ie not min wage service jobs or sex work), every one of them works in Tech. I know several Trans computer programmers, but I have never met any openly Trans lawyers, doctors, accountants, financial analysts, or consultants.

Vivian · Nov 11, 2017

Hi! I'm just another regular cis het male ally.

Or at least that's what I thought until a couple of days ago. For the first time in my life (getting close to 25 years!), I seriously considered the possibility that maybe things aren't that simple. And to be honest, it's weirding me out. I've always been happy enough as a guy, and I don't feel like I've ever suffered from dysphoria, but there are just a bunch of small things pointing in the other direction. At the very least, I don't think I'm 100% cis.

I'll probably be lurking this thread while I figure things out :)

Etain · Nov 11, 2017

Vit said:
Hi! I'm just another regular cis het male ally.

Or at least that's what I thought until a couple of days ago. For the first time in my life (getting close to 25 years!), I seriously considered the possibility that maybe things aren't that simple. And to be honest, it's weirding me out. I've always been happy enough as a guy, and I don't feel like I've ever suffered from dysphoria, but there are just a bunch of small things pointing in the other direction. At the very least, I don't think I'm 100% cis.

I'll probably be lurking this thread while I figure things out :)

It's kind of bad of me when I read the first line, think "for now!" and... yeah next paragraphs changes it.

Welcome! Yeah, it can be a messy thing to recognize and untangle.

Boddy · Nov 12, 2017

Luckily and purely accidentally I'm moving to probably the best city in my country when it comes to queer people.
That should help quite a bit.

Vit said:
Hi! I'm just another regular cis het male ally.

Or at least that's what I thought until a couple of days ago. For the first time in my life (getting close to 25 years!), I seriously considered the possibility that maybe things aren't that simple. And to be honest, it's weirding me out. I've always been happy enough as a guy, and I don't feel like I've ever suffered from dysphoria, but there are just a bunch of small things pointing in the other direction. At the very least, I don't think I'm 100% cis.

I'll probably be lurking this thread while I figure things out :)

That sounds a bit like me a few weeks ago.
As a rule of thumb, if you seriously considering it, you probably are trans. Of course it's not quite as simple.
There are usually sign earlier in life. Are you sure you never wanted to be girl or dress up as one? Not even as a little boy?

You not necessarily have to hate being a man in oder to be a trans woman, the desire to be female is enough.
The thing about dysphoria is that you can have it without knowing it.
For instance, I never liked how I looked, but I could never pinpoint why I felt this way. Well, now I know.
Having said that, dysphoria is a very important part of being trans and if you don't have it at all, you probably aren't one of us.
Fortunately, thinking about this stuff should make more apparent if you have dysphoria or not.

Finally, ask yourself questions.
Do you want to wear female clothings? Do you like the idea of people treating you as a woman? Etc.

Etain · Nov 12, 2017

I always am amazed when some of you adapt so readily upon realizing it. But then I did think I've had soft realizations that turned into a fear that it made me trans rather than just curious, some stupid prejudices and mental hang ups, and perhaps fundamentally being more in a gender queer spot which might mean the one rationalization of "I'd be just as obsessed/curious as a woman" plausible.

Deleted member 24149 · Nov 12, 2017

It took a bit for me to come to realize it. The Life in Aggro comic where Bear comes out helped me realized it. Though my wife was quick to tell me 'Duh' and has been stupid supportive.

Been thinking about going through the process but a lot of factors make me iffy about making the commitment. The whole living in texas, cis male dominated working enviroment, and family that has voted red for at least a decade. I've gone through with a name change but yeah.

I will say I spent more money on womens clothes than male in the last year.

pigeon_interrupted · Nov 12, 2017

Thankfully, I haven't had to run the employment gauntlet yet. I've transitioned on the job.

There is discrimination, no doubt. We are a minority and some of us are more visible than others. But as Xan mentioned, persistence is key. That may mean travelling the extra mile, being more flexible in job selection, or similar.

I've been discriminated against in a job interview for being half south east Asian in a firm full of white guys. It was way before I had transitioned and was a typically male/macho environment, so I wouldn't have been happy there anyways.

On the flip side, as Xan mentioned, there are companies and industries who seek to diversify and who would see you as an asset which is worth bearing in mind.

Vit said:
Hi! I'm just another regular cis het male ally.

Or at least that's what I thought until a couple of days ago. For the first time in my life (getting close to 25 years!), I seriously considered the possibility that maybe things aren't that simple. And to be honest, it's weirding me out. I've always been happy enough as a guy, and I don't feel like I've ever suffered from dysphoria, but there are just a bunch of small things pointing in the other direction. At the very least, I don't think I'm 100% cis.

I'll probably be lurking this thread while I figure things out :)

Hi Vit o/

Examine your motivations in the minutia; the roots of why you feel they way you do. Introspection and a deconstruction of the ego. Although it can be tough, it is well, well worth it to know who you are. It will save you a lot of heartache :)

Eusis said:
I always am amazed when some of you adapt so readily upon realizing it. But then I did think I've had soft realizations that turned into a fear that it made me trans rather than just curious, some stupid prejudices and mental hang ups, and perhaps fundamentally being more in a gender queer spot which might mean the one rationalization of "I'd be just as obsessed/curious as a woman" plausible.

I think a lot of it is not wanting to waste time once you have come to terms with who you are. It's how I feel now but wow did I waste time.

Some of the bravery on show in younger trans women leaves me in awe. I had to literally drag myself out the closet because hiding was destroying me.

This deserves to be quoted :D

Platy said:
Kinda unrelated, but I never understood this idea that a thin body is more androgynous than a fat one. the more fat the more equal the fat distribution is =P
very young, very fat, very muscular and very old are the most androgynous a human can be xD

Don't let society expectations of what a woman must be and a man must be makes you decide what you are.
Not fitting in the roles of women and still being cis or trans is common.
The truth is inside you, go seek it =O

EDIT: I was meant to write: "Some of the bravery on show in younger trans women and trans men leaves me in awe. I had to literally drag myself out the closet because hiding was destroying me." Sorry.

Boddy · Nov 12, 2017

Eusis said:
I always am amazed when some of you adapt so readily upon realizing it.

For me it was an incredible liberating experience, so while it's very scray, it's even more exciting.
Admittedly I don't have to worry about discrimation as much as many other trans people do.

pigeon_interrupted said:
Some of the bravery on show in younger trans women leaves me in awe. I had to literally drag myself out the closet because hiding was destroying me.

That's funny, because I'm impressed how many trans people are able to hold out for so long.
I had a hard time keeping it to myself for 2 weeks. I just want tell everyone asap, but of course it isn't that simple.
So far I haven't come out to my mother, since she is still recovering from a surgery, despite living with her for the time being.
I don't want to hide the stuff I bought and I want to start buying shoes and clothes, which is difficult without her noticing.

pigeon_interrupted · Nov 12, 2017

Boddy said:
That's funny, because I'm impressed how many trans people are able to hold out for so long.
I had a hard time keeping it to myself for 2 weeks. I just want tell everyone asap, but of course it isn't that simple.
So far I haven't come out to my mother, since she is still recovering from a surgery, despite living with her for the time being.
I don't want to hide the stuff I bought and I want to start buying shoes and clothes, which is difficult without her noticing.

It is impressive, haha. It always warms my heart to see older people come out of hiding. Hiding does take its toll in different ways, though. For me it was drugs. If you do enough drugs you could probably hide anything forever. But forever it would not be, more likely a very short life.

My immediate social circle was a bit repressive when I realised what I was in the mid 90s - before the internet was mainstream. Plus I was never the bravest soul. I chose to deal with things the wrong way and the mistake was compounded as time went by. My closet had to eject me because all the neuroses had filled it to bursting point :p

I'm so glad there are more outlets for LGBT youth today. It's a life saver.

I hope your mother has a swift recovery, it's the considerate thing to do - letting her concentrate on getting better, IMO.

In the meantime, why not order some clothes to your gf's house (if she's okay with that)? Maybe you could store them there.

I once got myself a PO box, so that I could pick up clothes I had ordered at the post office. It was a bit expensive, though. I used to have a locked toolbox where I stored my clothes, shoes and make up. This turned into two boxes, then three...

Yep, hiding sucked. Keeping your real life in a locked box only works for so long.

lake · Nov 12, 2017

Geirskogul said:
Granted all of this is purely anecdotal, but of all the Trans women I know who are gainfully employed (ie not min wage service jobs or sex work), every one of them works in Tech. I know several Trans computer programmers, but I have never met any openly Trans lawyers, doctors, accountants, financial analysts, or consultants.

No financial analysts come to mind (pretty specific) but I know multiple openly trans lawyers, several doctors / nurses, one accountant, and numerous consultants (mostly in the tech industry). I also know bakers, machinists, reverends, social workers, (an) asbestos inspector, writers, editors, journalists (some overlap there), human rights advocates, chefs, the list goes on. You can find us doing just about everything cis people do.

Vivian · Nov 12, 2017

Thanks for the replies everyone :)

What's bothering me at the moment is the uncertainty. If I was certain one way or another, then I think I'd feel better, but right now I'm just confused.

Part of me is thinking "you're just overthinking things; you should continue to live like you've done for your whole life", but there's also a part that's thinking "admit it, if you had the chance to be a woman, you'd take it", and I don't know which one is really me (or could it be both?) Like if there was a switch that would make it so that I was female all along, I'd go for it, but obviously real life is a lot more complicated than that and I don't know if I feel strongly enough about it that I'd be willing to go for it.

I'd call them "masculine side" and "feminine side," but honestly I've never felt particularly masculine so it's more like "status quo side" and "feminine side" :P

As Boddy mentioned, not feeling dysphoria is what's holding me up here, and I think is the reason I haven't really thought about my gender until now. The former part of me is thinking "see, this proves you're overthinking it and you shouldn't worry about it any more", while the latter part is thinking "but what about everything else?"

Those range from smaller things like identifying more with female characters than male ones and liking cute things (then again, who doesn't like kittens?), to things that might otherwise be dead giveaways like wondering how my friends would react if I was suddenly a girl. Maybe subconsciously it's the reason I've kept my hair long-ish since my early teens (i.e. since I've had a say in haircuts?) There was actually a moment a couple of months ago where I saw a guy wearing a hairclip to keep his hair out of his eyes and my thought was "would it be cute if I put hair clips into my hair?" (immediately followed by "no, that would be weird for a guy.")

There's definitely enough evidence there that it's a real possibility I feel I have to consider, but once again lack of dysphoria is making me have second thoughts. I just don't really know how I go about untangling it all.

Kaywee · Nov 12, 2017

Vit said:
Hi! I'm just another regular cis het male ally.

Or at least that's what I thought until a couple of days ago. For the first time in my life (getting close to 25 years!), I seriously considered the possibility that maybe things aren't that simple. And to be honest, it's weirding me out. I've always been happy enough as a guy, and I don't feel like I've ever suffered from dysphoria, but there are just a bunch of small things pointing in the other direction. At the very least, I don't think I'm 100% cis.

I'll probably be lurking this thread while I figure things out :)

Seek out a psychologist that works with your LGBTQ community to help you unravel your feelings. If you are trans, I would recommend starting the process of transitioning sooner rather than later. I can't say it's an easy road but living as your true self for even one day, is worth it.

Xan · Nov 12, 2017

Vit said:
Part of me is thinking "you're just overthinking things; you should continue to live like you've done for your whole life", but there's also a part that's thinking "admit it, if you had the chance to be a woman, you'd take it", and I don't know which one is really me (or could it be both?) Like if there was a switch that would make it so that I was female all along, I'd go for it, but obviously real life is a lot more complicated than that and I don't know if I feel strongly enough about it that I'd be willing to go for it.

I'd call them "masculine side" and "feminine side," but honestly I've never felt particularly masculine so it's more like "status quo side" and "feminine side" :P

As Boddy mentioned, not feeling dysphoria is what's holding me up here, and I think is the reason I haven't really thought about my gender until now. The former part of me is thinking "see, this proves you're overthinking it and you shouldn't worry about it any more", while the latter part is thinking "but what about everything else?"

The way you're describing your thought process is very similar to what I've experienced. I call the two voices the Cis Fairy and the Trans Fairy - one of them is telling me I'm cis and just want to feel special, and the other one is telling me I'm a trans woman who's afraid of not passing.

Dysphoria is an odd thing because it's hard to define. I didn't think I had it, but that's probably not true - I do have serious discomfort about my body hair. And there are less obvious symptoms - here's an article about some of the other possible signs you may have dysphoria.

Something that held me back for a while was the thought that I needed to have all of this figured out before I could take any steps at all. It's not true. By actually embracing some of these ideas and making changes to how I present myself to the world, I really am gaining a better understanding of my gender.

Boddy · Nov 12, 2017

Vit said:
Like if there was a switch that would make it so that I was female all along, I'd go for it, but obviously real life is a lot more complicated than that and I don't know if I feel strongly enough about it that I'd be willing to go for it.

That thought is a very good sign that you are a trans woman. It seems like the fear of being trans is holding you back, not uncertainty about what gender you want to be.

Vit said:
As Boddy mentioned, not feeling dysphoria is what's holding me up here, and I think is the reason I haven't really thought about my gender until now. The former part of me is thinking "see, this proves you're overthinking it and you shouldn't worry about it any more", while the latter part is thinking "but what about everything else?"

Those range from smaller things like identifying more with female characters than male ones and liking cute things (then again, who doesn't like kittens?), to things that might otherwise be dead giveaways like wondering how my friends would react if I was suddenly a girl. Maybe subconsciously it's the reason I've kept my hair long-ish since my early teens (i.e. since I've had a say in haircuts?) There was actually a moment a couple of months ago where I saw a guy wearing a hairclip to keep his hair out of his eyes and my thought was "would it be cute if I put hair clips into my hair?" (immediately followed by "no, that would be weird for a guy.")

Dysphoria can very subtle. Some of the things you described could be minor cases of dysphoria.
I'm no psychologist, so all I can do is recommand that you think more about it, do more research and if that doesn't help, talk to a therapist.
If you are trans, you will need one anyway.

Geirskogul · Nov 12, 2017

Well after putting off going to the pharmacy for a week I finally started HRT today.

While I still have no hope for the future and nothing but regret about the past, at least I'm finally moving forward a bit. I have zero expectations regarding physical changes but I hope that my baseline mood will elevate a bit.

If not, then there's always my primary plan of killing myself after I graduate next May.

LastPaige · Nov 13, 2017

Geirskogul said:
Well after putting off going to the pharmacy for a week I finally started HRT today.

While I still have no hope for the future and nothing but regret about the past, at least I'm finally moving forward a bit. I have zero expectations regarding physical changes but I hope that my baseline mood will elevate a bit.

If not, then there's always my primary plan of killing myself after I graduate next May.

I would say congratulations but I feel like it would be in bad taste. Do you have anyone in person to talk to? If not there's some stuff in the op you could check out. Or if you want you can pm me. As someone who inherited depressive genes on top of all this I know what it's like to feel hopeless or suicidal. Hell I still do most of the time.

I'm sure there's plenty of people in this thread that are willing to listen and help out however they can. I don't know about your situation but like you said you moved forward, no matter how small a step it may seem.

pigeon_interrupted · Nov 13, 2017

Geirskogul said:
Well after putting off going to the pharmacy for a week I finally started HRT today.

While I still have no hope for the future and nothing but regret about the past, at least I'm finally moving forward a bit. I have zero expectations regarding physical changes but I hope that my baseline mood will elevate a bit.

If not, then there's always my primary plan of killing myself after I graduate next May.

Congrats on the first part; I know it's something that has been on your mind for a while. You seem to know all the ins and outs of what to expect and I hope it goes well for you :)

On the second part; if you ever want to talk it out some in pm you are most welcome to drop me a message. I also know what it's like to suffer depression and have had suicidal episodes. It's an illness like any other and it needs to be treated like an illness.

I have had a very tough time separating myself from the past, too. Please don't let it ruin your future. Keep moving forward. Sorry if that sounds patronising. All the best<3

TransEra |ERA1| We're People, Okay?

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