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Shenmue Community |OT| The day the snow turned to rain
- Thread starter Erevador
- Start date
I went to higher levels, but that's the video I posted because it was a pretty unbroken chain of just clowning him. And yes, I know about the move extension. I either didn't do it for whatever reason, or I was slow on the button press (or DEMUL input lag screwed me, IDK).
If the more complex moves are your thing that's fine, but even a lot of enthusiast players don't really do that deep a dive into the move list. Yu said that retroactively he thinks using VF combat wasn't completely suited to the type of game Shenmue was, and he's right; a story-based game maybe isn't the right place to have fighting game inputs. From a quality of life improvement standpoint, analogue stick controls are going to fuck with the ability to have those kind of inputs in the first place.
On the point of dumbing down though, I know it's easy to run to the worst possible conclusion whenever simplification is mentioned but you can't take that part of Yu's comments without considering what he's said in the past about III's combat needing thinking and judgement skills. We won't know exactly how all this has been done until we see it or play it, but dumbing down isn't the right phrase for the desire for players to rely on their heads more than their fingers. It's a real far cry from, I dunno, someone from Bioware saying "when you press A something awesome has to happen" when talking about Dragon Age 2.
The new combat is going to be a change, but it seems from what's been said so far it'll be done in a considered way and for the right reasons.
I can definitely appreciate your point of view and I want to say thanks for assuaging some of my fears. I can't be alone in my paranoia though. Shenmue is such a huge part of many a people's lives, including my own that it's been built up into this mythical legend now. Everything is being met with meticulous scrutiny and anything less than total perfection will be met with anger, dissatisfaction and sadness. I know that Yu realizes everyone is counting on him, that's a lot of pressure. Surely his aim isn't to disappoint the most patient, loyal and certainly most vocal fan base in the history of gaming.
I realize a lot has changed in the gaming landscape since the last chapter 17 years ago. Certainly walking/running will be true analog with full camera control on the right stick. Fighting inputs should always be on the D pad though. You just can't do precise commands with the analog stick.
I'll reserve final judgment until I get to play it obviously but I hope that in the near future we get to see some actual game play including the free battle system. I know Yu always plays his cards close to his chest and with good reason. Especially amongst the Shenmue faithful. As I mentioned previously, any deviation from the built up legend in people's memories is met with extreme prejudice.
Thought I'd share this here since Kingdom Come and Shenmue 3 are both Kickstarter games published by Deep Silver, and there's always a chance of a some similar issues:
https://www.polygon.com/2018/3/8/17...-will-not-commit-to-kickstarter-stretch-goals
Personally, I doubt any of Shenmue's strech goals will be missed.
https://www.polygon.com/2018/3/8/17...-will-not-commit-to-kickstarter-stretch-goals
Personally, I doubt any of Shenmue's strech goals will be missed.
I understand. As fans, we should try to meet YSnet halfway on this.
They're dealing with less resources (monetary and personnel) than with the two original games, game design and technology has changed considerably, there's the burden of III having to forge a path for the series to continue beyond it, and Yu Suzuki not wanting to feel like his wings are clipped making the same game he did 20 years ago. The Shenmue III we had in our heads is going to be impossible for them to do, and arguably probably died with the Dreamcast/OG Xbox.
Changes are going to be made for lots of reasons. In some respects they could be very considered and smart choices, but in others they might be compromises against the hand they were dealt to get the game made in the first place. We don't really know how that'll all pan out just yet, but I've got faith they can work it smartly where most of the changes may even be embraced by purists as an evolution of the old games.
As much as possible though, we should try to keep open minds and enjoy the game for what it is, rather than what it isn't.
Same. I know we complained about it at the time, but keeping the content of the stretch goals vague was a good idea in retrospect. It seems to have been done on purpose, judging by comments last year about how the stretch goals secretly covered ideas and mechanics they didn't mention officially at all. Playing it safe appears to have paid off, I'm fairly certain all the mechanics from the stretch goals have been mentioned in the last 6 months - so they're definitely in and working by this point.
I know KS is supposedly about openness, but I absolutely don't believe backers would be able to understand why certain planned features have to be dropped in games sometimes.
Team Yu/Shenmue Forever's interview with Yu Suzuki at MAGIC has been published.
Touches on areas of combat, the in-game economy, etc. It's not hugely long, so it should be a fairly quick read.
The combat quote specifically got me interested:
It sounds like Yu wants the battles to have some level of distinction between them. A fight that is not just a fight, to interpret him a little.
Sounds pretty cool, and like it'll continue largely in the same way Shenmue II did when it comes to different scenarios, rulesets, and playstyles in the combat. Y'know, the street fights, 1v1, 1vMany, small areas, large areas, physics interactions, no physics interactions, etc.
Touches on areas of combat, the in-game economy, etc. It's not hugely long, so it should be a fairly quick read.
The combat quote specifically got me interested:
It sounds like Yu wants the battles to have some level of distinction between them. A fight that is not just a fight, to interpret him a little.
Sounds pretty cool, and like it'll continue largely in the same way Shenmue II did when it comes to different scenarios, rulesets, and playstyles in the combat. Y'know, the street fights, 1v1, 1vMany, small areas, large areas, physics interactions, no physics interactions, etc.
Now that we're on the eve of another Bluepoint remake/remaster, and several posters have suggested Shenmue 1/2 remakes as a possibility, what would you expect from a Shenmue 1 &2 remake (or remaster)? I'm skeptical the games will ever be remade. I think it's too costly and risky, among other things. I can imagine a barebones port at best, which would be unfortunate for a variety of reasons: controls need a major overhaul and the English voice acting would scare away all but the most dedicated of gamers.
I also what kind of character models we'd see in a remake. Would they look like the Shenmue 3 character models or look different? Seems like that would be pretty strange.
I also what kind of character models we'd see in a remake. Would they look like the Shenmue 3 character models or look different? Seems like that would be pretty strange.
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That magic interview was a great read, thanks!
I'm interested to see how the combat pans out, I agree it doesn't need to have VF precision, so long as its fast paced and logical like VF.
I enjoyed the sound of the fishing game too! Sounds relaxing.
Does that mean they're finally handling promotion/marketing, or they'll just share AK's Kickstarter updates?
Have they been tweeting past Kickstarter updates? If so, I'd imagine they're just referring to the next monthly update or whatever.
Despite being a huge Shenmue fan I've pretty much kept myself out of all the Shenmue website drama over the years. Why is this the final Shenmue Lounge stream? I've just stopped in the stream but maybe he explained earlier. I know he's not been on the dojo forums in a while either even though he just said he'll be posting on them soon in the stream. I also saw this tweet:
Is there anything to this? Had no idea the Youtube channel wasn't affiliated with the Shenmue Dojo anymore. I know Shenmue Guru and Shenmue Dojo are members here but was just wondering what is going on.
Corey Marshall says he starts recording his lines at the end of May. I saw that on his Facebook (someone on the Kickstarter comments mentioned it... I rarely look there because it's become unbearable).
I wonder how many lines he has, and how it compares to the previous games.
Also, does this imply the script is done, or does Suzuki work like Hideo Kojima where he's constantly rewriting things and having the actors come back to record more?
Also, does this imply the script is done, or does Suzuki work like Hideo Kojima where he's constantly rewriting things and having the actors come back to record more?
Yu is involved in the writing process and supervises it, but there's dedicated writing staff who take on the bulk of the responsibility for the script. If Yu's signed off on it, it's likely he doesn't intend to tinker endlessly with it.
Plus, for cost effectiveness reasons it's better to work from a final or near final script, so you're not constantly sinking money into retranslation and bringing the actors back in to re-record.
Plus, for cost effectiveness reasons it's better to work from a final or near final script, so you're not constantly sinking money into retranslation and bringing the actors back in to re-record.
With it being recorded in LA, I'm assuming they'll have a different voice director from the originals. It will be really interesting to see (or rather, hear) how it turns out, as a US production is going to have inherently different sensibilities, and won't get the awkward lines (unless Tommy Wiseau is involved).
That's good news then. I doubt we'll be getting super awkward vocal performances.
More specifically he said the current plan was for him to record in LA. We don't know if the whole production will be recorded there, or if plans have changed.
Hopefully they do record the whole thing in LA, though. It'd make sense logistically with Corey for one, but it almost guarantees better VO talent too. Between advice from people like Ryan Payton and additional funding from Deep Silver, I'm staying optimistic that they're splashing some cash to improve the English dub.
Hopefully they do record the whole thing in LA, though. It'd make sense logistically with Corey for one, but it almost guarantees better VO talent too. Between advice from people like Ryan Payton and additional funding from Deep Silver, I'm staying optimistic that they're splashing some cash to improve the English dub.
I think some of the reasons for the awkward voice acting in the originals is that they hired actors based on who looked most like the characters and not so much who was just the best actor. At least that was for the more major characters. Don't really know if that was the case with the supporting cast and extras.
At the time there wasn't really a formula for recording lines for a video game of this size. I wouldn't know what to compare it to because 1999 isn't that fresh in my memory but I can't really remember anything with that grand of a stature. There's simply TONS of spoked dialog.
Plus it was originally recorded in Japan for some ridiculous reason so the talent pool was much smaller.
Perfect storm for awkward.
I'm not really sure I believe that "picked because they looked like the characters" bit wholesale. I've heard the story, but on some level it's definitely been exaggerated to urban myth levels, because there's not really much resemblance between the core voice actors and the in-game cast.
The reality is it was still the frontier days of voice acting in video games. Shenmue had unprecedented scale of spoken English dialogue being handled and directed by non-native speakers, along with technical restraints like limited storage on disks, loading times, and relatively primitive data compression methods.
Stuff like the original Metal Gear Solid was the exception, not the rule.
The reality is it was still the frontier days of voice acting in video games. Shenmue had unprecedented scale of spoken English dialogue being handled and directed by non-native speakers, along with technical restraints like limited storage on disks, loading times, and relatively primitive data compression methods.
Stuff like the original Metal Gear Solid was the exception, not the rule.
Shenmue III was discussed on this week's Giant Bombcast. It came up during their discussion on the resurgence of Japanese games. No leaks or anything (not that they would have any), but it was reasonable and well thought out.
Anyone else think spending what seems like limited money on the English dub is probably one of the worst decisions they've made so far? If it's anything like the originals...ouch.
No, it's at least worth a shot.
YSnet aren't ignorant to the criticisms and mockery of the English dub in the originals. Ryan Payton, who is noted for really disliking the English voice overs, chairs the advisory board for III. More importantly than that, the voice actors aren't unaware of the reputation of the dub either.
We're not in the pioneer years of voice acting in video games anymore, and standards definitely have changed, but at the same time developers are going to be more aware about what a production like Shenmue needs for an acceptable English voice track. We're not in the days where everything was recorded in Japan and a lot of the actors were, well, pretty much plucked off the street because they could speak English.
They're already making the right steps if Corey Marshall is indeed recording in LA, because it guarantees at least a baseline of native English speaker involvement. That's not a fix-all, as there's other stuff to consider like improved translation and localisation, or better scheduling so they don't have to blast through lines in as few takes as possible, but if they've learned and paid attention to the reaction to the existing English dub, along with taking advice from people involved in the production like Ryan Payton or even contacts at Deep Silver; then hopefully they're accounting for this as well.
And y'know, worst comes to worst there's hopefully a dual language option.
No I think it should remain true to the originals and have an English dub option. I'm sure there are some casual Shenmue fans out there that aren't interested in playing through subtitles and could have been turned off by that. Additionally, many fans were lobbying for Corey Marshall to be in the game during the Kickstarter, so there certainly are fans who want it in English.
Personally, I'm looking forward to playing through the game first in English, then again in Japanese.
This is a good point when you consider that there are fans in North America (the region where the series has sold the most) that have had basically zero exposure to the Japanese dub unless they were super hardcore and imported II on Dreamcast, or have since checked out the Japanese versions.
Hello everyone. I'm yet another member that got banned from Shenmue Dojo and is now posting here! The moderators there are unqualified and should not be able to abuse their powers like that. I didn't even get a reason as to why I was banned in the first place. To show an example of the unfair moderation, Ziming (one of their most valued members) was banned because of a YOUTUBE video. He did not get a second chance.
Anyway, enough about that. Hopefully I enjoy my stay on this forum!
Anyway, enough about that. Hopefully I enjoy my stay on this forum!
Hey there,
while I hope that you will find a new home here amongst likeminded Shenmue fans, I have to ask you to refrain from bringing offsite drama to our site. This is not an avenue to lash out against those that you deem unfair and there are probably more sides to that story (which I'm not interested in because I have nothing to do with said drama).
I hope you understand this and I wish you a nice stay!
I totally understand. Don't worry, that's the last and only time I'll ever bring it up. Thanks for the kind words!
So I just ordered a Dreamconn which is a wireless Dreamcast controller and will be getting the lastest + model that's being sent out to people now. I'll finally be able to play Shenmue 1&2 on my Dreamcast without the need of wires which is cool. When I get the controller I might review it, works with PC too using USB so with Dreamcast emulators it would be great. It was quite costly at $180 although since I'm from the UK the conversion cost was only £130!
With some potential Xbox BC games being announced tomorrow it got me wondering, if Shenmue 2 were to get backwards compatibility on Xbox One, do you think that would suggest no remasters are forthcoming? Would it be in Sega's interest to allow such BC if they want to sell a new version, or could it be more of a goodwill gesture to get people to shut up about it, like "Yeah, those remasters ain't happening, now please take this and leave us alone."
For Sega they pretty much just have to sign off on it, though Microsoft usually tries to tie in a digital version of it for sale at the same time. In either case MS does the heavy lifting on the technical side.
I wouldn't read much into it then if it comes out. Sega would most likely be interested in as many avenues as possible to promote and extract revenue from their IPs.
