That Jim Ryan quote is perfectly fine, I cant believe how people twisted his words and made him look like a fool.
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Fortnite Crossplay XB1 - PS4 | Seems like the ball is in Sony's court ... Again - MOD EDIT: READ OP
- Thread starter Klobrille
- Start date
Greatly appreciate this succinct post. Captures the reality of the situation very objectively.
I believe that once gamers on both sides of the console fence approach it this way, we can really get to the root of the problem.
I'm not sure what people who want crossplay should do to meet in the middle. Empathize with a faceless multimillion dollar company?
Breaking news buddy: Steam (which is horrendous - an app built in 2003 that hasn't been meaningfully updated in well over a decade) already dominates. For the overwhelming majority of titles, there already are no options.
MS having a store isn't a threat. Looking at it that way is insane.
Let's try to stay on topic.
Hard to tell in this thread. Had someone early on here tell me that crossplay is a slippery slope into developers being forced to give copies for each different SKU for the purchase of one
No.
Make a case for the consumers to empathize who either do view this stance as anti-consumer, or care about the subject at hand at all because they are not effected. I believe its the latter.
As I stated previously, you should empathize with with gamers, and neither corporation. Microsoft and Sony are in it for themselves, not for you. Depending on the time and necessity, that may or may not align with their bottom line.
My belief of the root of the problem? Consoles paying to play their games online in 2018. If this wasn't in place, this entire matter would be trivial in scope.
What the fuck is this shit? What are you trying to say, that people posting here don't actually care about the issue? Staff just got done coming in here and telling people to fuck off with that shit. Fuck off.
No. That is not the issue, has nothing to do with the issue.
They should just allow crossplay. If it's really about the players then allow it. I get business wise it may help one brand over the other but nothing detrimental. Microsoft had the ball in their court to allow crossplay a generation ago and they didn't allow it and that was wrong. Now the ball is in Sony's court and so far they have not budged. They are just as guilty as Microsoft was back then.
Hm, not certain why you are this incredibly aggressive.
Who said anything about most people here? I'm speaking of gamers on both side of the fence, and completely neutral and objective with my approach.
I also don't appreciate you telling me to "fuck off". If you can't disagree in the confines of civil discourse, you probably shouldn't respond at all.
Forgive me if this is obvious, but what has paying for PS+/Xbox Live Gold got to do with Sony blocking cross-platform play on consoles?
User Banned (3 Days): Hostility
I'm not your buddy.
Steam, which is luckily not an "app" but rather a program, received a very long list of highly meaningful features over the past decade. Everyone who knows anything knows that, so I won't bother typing out a point-by-point rebuttal.
Actually, there are plenty. Because, unlike every other major platform, Steam allows developers to generate game keys and sell them in arbitrary digital stores.
It absolutely is, because unlike any other party they already control the OS, which allows them to implement anti-consumer and anti-competition features to favor their own distribution platform over others.
Right, because Microsoft would never, ever, do anything like that. It's insane to even entertain the notion.
Correct.
We're officially done here - people who legitimately argue 'app' versus 'program' are not worth talking to. Same for people who invoke decades old things as an excuse for conspiratorial thinking.
Income streams? How likely would it be for the average user to have both a Plus and Live subscription?
This just goes back to bulding your own consumer base up and locking them into your own ecosystem and keeping them away from the competitor in order to have a steady stream of income to use for whatever the division sees fit. Cross-play may deter people from purchasing one particular box over the other thus losing that income stream long term. Something they both do not want to happen.
It's $50 a year. If you have reached the point where you are buying multiple consoles, another $50 isn't really material.
Is it a revelation to you that companies do things that is best for them, so they can continue to survive? Should I be suspicious of Nintendo if they lower the price of the Switch, because their real intention is not simply for me to be happy, but for me to buy the Switch with some games so they can make a profit? In this situation where Nintendo and Microsoft are both allowing crossplay, should I go against it because it is something that is making them look good with gamers that decire that feature?
Agreed.
Its just that most people absolutely can not justify purchasing two consoles that play 95% the same games and add subscription costs to both consoles over an entire generation.
Can you please post your off topic conspiracy theories in another thread.
Sorry, maybe I'm being super dense here. I still don't get it. Weeaboom said that the root of the cross-play problem was paying for online in 2018.
Why would the whole cross-play matter be trivial if we didn't have to pay for online access? And why is it 'the root of the problem'?. Why is paying to access PS+ making Sony deny developers cross-platform play with other consoles? Again, might be super obvious, sorry!
No forgiveness necessary. I appreciate the civil dialogue.
I don't believe that the necessity of Sony having it or not, is an important factor for their base. If this changes, only then will Sony change its stance.
I believe the conversation will not matter to the majority of Sony's base because it doesn't effect them in the grand scheme, (Not the reason they will consider changing Sony being their platform of choice), and the argument from the other side is typically that if you are not for crossplay with Sony, then you are siding with Sony and you should be ashamed. The debate doesn't include enough nuance for the Sony or the casual observer to care.
My solution is to get to the root of the problem that I believe gamers would universally will lend an ear to... Why are we paying for walls(paying to play online) in 2018? My understanding is that you cannot play the F2P game online without XBox Live Gold. Since this is the case, that shows you where Microsoft's affinity is. That doesn't make Sony less guilty, it simply shows the transparency of each companies motive.
Destroy the online paywall, and this subject matter will become moot. The first company to do so will earn gamers goodwill. Further, I believe that it will become a deciding factor in market leadership. The company that decides to retain it will continuously have to justify its existence.
They all offer crossplay in some capacity, but market realities dictate who plays nice with whom. Its just the way it is right now. I want crossplay to happen in the future but people should not be surprised that the actions taken by these companies are usually with their own interest in mind first and foremost.
You and everyone else should definitely support crossplay, but ignoring why somethings are more difficult to achieve is ignorant. Especially considering all the good work these companies have done to one, build a sizeable lead and two, to recover from a terrible start respectively.
Thanks for the explanation!
So... what's this got to do with cross-platform play in Fortnite? I'm not that interest in what console achieves 'market leadership'. I just don't see how this is relevant at all to Epic wanting universal cross platform play in Fortnite and Sony denying it.
No, because I was asked a question in this thread. You can navigate back through the chain of quotes to understand how that chain of discussions unfolded.
Also, it's not a conspiracy theory, just like Sony refusing to allow developers to implement crossplay with other consoles because they are currently in a dominant position isn't.
I think the best way to see issues like this clearly is to own all consoles. I bought an Xbox early (even through the DRM shit) and then bought a PS4 when it was clear which system then was the more powerful one. The only system I don't own right now is the Switch. I will NEVER choose to empathize with a single corporation and put its interests above mine, even if it makes "business sense". What I hoped to see from a thread like this is people empathizing with the DEVELOPERS who stand to gain much from crossplay, but it seems even that is too much to ask.
No. There will be no noticeable goodwill. Was there any noticeable backslash when Sony introduced PS+ as mandatory? No!
And negative stuff will always cause a bigger more emotional reaction.
You can gift someone 10 bucks and take it away a second later. That person is still as rich / poor as 3 mins ago, but feels bad.
So if no huge negative reaction was caused by Ps+, there is no way any meaningful positive reaction would be caused by dropping the Xbox Live or Ps+ paywall.
It would be just some noise on the internet at best
No problem.
I believe this current issue is a bit tangential to the larger issue at hand. If the larger is acknowledged by a majority, then the majority would take action. As it stands, I do not believe the majority will take action, or even acknowledge that is a problem because that case isn't made strong enough, or relevant to their interest.
Never mind this will only derail the thread further. Believe what you will. I am out on this one.
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Skimming the thread, I may have misinterpreted that part of your post out of context actually, don't mind me.
It is $60 a year. Also amazing how dismissive actual gouging of the consumer, on one thing, but not the other. Both stink, one more so than the other however.
There was backlash, not nearly enough as the backlash that Microsoft received for it's misteps at the start of this gen. So the choice was easy for most. Also, when PS+ was optional during PS3. The only reason I purchased it was because of free games every month. With the PS4, there wasn't a choice if I wanted to play online.
I was against paying for online gaming since the start, and will continue to be.
If Sony or Microsoft dropped the paywall, the PR would probably be unlike we have ever seen. It would be incredibly positive PR for the one who does it, and incredibly negative for the one who continues to charge for it. It would save gamers money, and the selective cross-play situation would be more than likely be nonexistent.
You seem intent on reading some sort of direct equation of circumstances that was not intended. Please go back to the initial question that prompted this detour.
I don't believe I'm an idiot, but I'll readily admit that I do have a huge, unapologetic chip on my shoulder about maintaining a mainstream gaming platform that is as open and free of control by a single vertically integrated corporate interest as possible. Because when such complete control is handed to a corporation, we get cases like this one, in which Sony is acting against gamers' interests because their market position allows them to get away with it.
I'm gonna drop this soon I promise. I'm not trying to be difficult! I just still don't see what all the above about dropping paywalls and not having to pay for PS+ has to do with crossplay. I'm with you all the way through about how dropping the online sub would be good for gamers and how that might win 'the console war' but then you bring it back to
And I just go 'huh?'. Why would the cross-play situation be non-existent if we didn't have to pay for PS+ or Xbox Live Gold? I kinda feel like you're making a separate point and trying to explain how one console can win 'the console war'. That's interesting but if I want to play with my friend who's playing Fortnite on a different console, what's the connection?
it's also a lame excuse when you consider they routinely crossplay with PC - which is home to the least restrictive networks
Like I said before. They should just let it happen. Microsoft was wrong when they were blocking it. Sony is wrong for blocking it now. Both companies have had the ball in their possession at one point or another and both have fumbled.
i think the lack of crossplay has caused more rivalry. people are so sensitive to the urge to justify their affinity to a piece of plastic, that they viciously defend the walled garden they buy into... allow people to interact beyond those walls and there would be more friendly competition, less vitriol.
It seems Sony is keeping cross play with xbox away because it would be less reason to buy console games on PS4 (royalties), less reason to pick PS+ if you're already buying live (so much total $), less reason to buy Fortnite micro-transactions on PSN (Sony's cut from Epic). Trying to get people on PS4 and PS+ seems to be the goal. Timed exclusive dlc, putting more money into exclusive games and first party studios, and investing in features like vr. Without PS+ they would probably just stick to getting exclusive dlc which was a old play from Microsoft.
Like netflix subs, these fees are racking in a ton of money. Whoever can get people to pay more monthly and in masses will be better off. PSNow stuff, or that thing Microsoft is doing, oh also EA. Whoever can retain their users can reap bigger prof.. let me be careful here to prevent someone getting mad at me (reads mod's post again to make sure I'm not crossing the rules). Looks like I'm clear, not defending anything, I don't sub to PS+ or Xbox Live, no EA Origin access either. I should probably just say PS+ and Xbox Live racks in money, they print money, and fees from micro-transactions (fortnite) also bring in the cheddar, so Sony here seems to want its player pool to pull in other console gamers (friends, family, communities).
Yes, motives absolutely matter. Have you ever been approached by a stranger promising you access to a van full of candy? Who cares why? FREE CANDY! He's being PRO-KID. No other reason at all for wanting to distribute free van candy. Why even think such a thing?
I'm not saying MS is trying to abduct you, but some people cannot seem to understand why motives matter. Especially motives coupled with past history.
Until someone puts out stats comparing console players. "Xbox users end up winning 80% more mathces than Playstation users, superiority confirmed!?!?"
If the paywall is dropped, Microsoft would no longer be seen as competition in that space as they are not getting consumer dollars for the privilege of playing your game online, like they both are charging currently. So cross-play wouldn't matter at that point to Sony.
Try not to think of it in matters of a perceived console war, but more in the thoughts of what message the majority would support, and how this will help your position (that being cross-play).