I think more people would love Bayonetta 1 - despite all its myriad flaws - if it just didn't grade you until your second playthrough. It's nice to see how far you've come, but a lot of people just hate being told they suck after surviving a tough challenge. I sure did my first time (8 years ago? Really?), even though I think it's the better of the two games.
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Bayonetta + Bayonetta 2 |OT| 1-2 Witch
- Thread starter Deleted member 278
- Start date
I think more people would love Bayonetta 1 - despite all its myriad flaws - if it just didn't grade you until your second playthrough. It's nice to see how far you've come, but a lot of people just hate being told they suck after surviving a tough challenge. I sure did my first time (8 years ago? Really?), even though I think it's the better of the two games.
I don't particularly mind that as much as the more unreasonable Alfheims - it allows them to get more use out of the environments and is an enjoyable way to provide a replay incentive as well as leveraging the minor exploration element. It actually feels disappointing if I backtrack to an earlier part of the stage and an optional verse doesn't trigger.
I beat Bayo 2 on Infinite Climax last night and was surprised when nothing new unlocked. I was sure I'd get something. Anyway, call me a kidney because I was filled to the brim with delicious stones for most of it. All skill, baby.
Anyone want to do some Tag Climax right now?
Anyone want to do some Tag Climax right now?
I only want 2 on Switch, and not 1 - being able to change lock-on to LB in the PC version turned the whole game around for me and I couldn't live without it. What's my cheapest option for this? I seem to recall that Bayo 2 was discounted on the Wii U eShop after it was no longer sold with Bayo 1 physically, is that right? Should I just wait?
Neiteio putting into words my own wants, as usual. :)
OH SO THATS WHY I COULD NEVER FIND SOME VERSES.
Why would I backtrack on a game as linear as Bayo?
I just finished Chapter 9 in Bayo 2. I was going to write a post about the numerous reasons why I hate the cutscenes at the end of this Chapter, but instead I'll just say that I hate them and leave it at that. Luckily the best part of the game is about to start. :D
Once I finish the game, I've resolved to write a post praising everything that Bayo2 does really well, because it's an absolutely fantastic game and deserves to be credited as such. Whenever I criticize it, it's only because I'm comparing it to the glorious radiance of Bayo1.
Congratulations! That Chapter isn't exactly easier, which makes it even more impressive.
They're actually easier for the most part. The key is to:
1. Never let your combo drop. Hold Taunt if there's a pause between enemy waves. Use guns and Umbran Spear to always keep hitting enemies.
2. Try to get Witch Time at least a couple times in each fight. There are some Verses that require Witch Time to meet the combo requirement.
3. Don't insta-kill enemies (throwing them off cliffs, etc.).
4. If all else fails, equip Gaze of Despair, which should let you breeze through the combo score requirements.
The first Verse of the Prologue is the exception. Getting Platinum combo on it can be quite hard. If you're struggling, I recommend equipping Gaze of Despair for that Verse only (which, incidentally, is also a great way to farm Halos).
Once I finish the game, I've resolved to write a post praising everything that Bayo2 does really well, because it's an absolutely fantastic game and deserves to be credited as such. Whenever I criticize it, it's only because I'm comparing it to the glorious radiance of Bayo1.
Got my first ever pure plat! ;_;
Congratulations! That Chapter isn't exactly easier, which makes it even more impressive.
They're actually easier for the most part. The key is to:
1. Never let your combo drop. Hold Taunt if there's a pause between enemy waves. Use guns and Umbran Spear to always keep hitting enemies.
2. Try to get Witch Time at least a couple times in each fight. There are some Verses that require Witch Time to meet the combo requirement.
3. Don't insta-kill enemies (throwing them off cliffs, etc.).
4. If all else fails, equip Gaze of Despair, which should let you breeze through the combo score requirements.
The first Verse of the Prologue is the exception. Getting Platinum combo on it can be quite hard. If you're struggling, I recommend equipping Gaze of Despair for that Verse only (which, incidentally, is also a great way to farm Halos).
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Man, some people have no patience to give someone the benefit of the doubt when it's randoms. Die on first verse -> doesn't want to play again. It's so easy to just try again. Your ass died, too. I guess it's a blessing it's a snap to find another partner.
And...There we go! I just completed at 53 Verse Cards! Normal-Hard-Climax are done! Not much left too do, except fight whats-his-face and finish Witch Trial 5!
Incidently...while trying to figure out exactly what each move's point value is, I incidentally found out how Salamandra's Hold mechanic actually works! Jeeze, they could have explained that one; I'm just about done and burnt out on the game! The weapon makes so much more sense now!
Incidentally, I never did figure out what Kafka's special effect was, despite using it extensively on my first playthrough and experimenting with it. I'd assume it either do damage over time, weaken enemy attacks, or make them vulnerable to more damage, but I wasn't able to actually notice anything. The special effects of weapons in Bayonetta 2 is a neat idea, but they should really explain in-game better how they work. In a fast paced action game like Bayonetta, most people aren't going to try the scientific method on everything they find, especially when there isn't a good practice mode to test attacks with. I'd like to see training dummies in Bayonetta 3, please.
Incidently...while trying to figure out exactly what each move's point value is, I incidentally found out how Salamandra's Hold mechanic actually works! Jeeze, they could have explained that one; I'm just about done and burnt out on the game! The weapon makes so much more sense now!
Incidentally, I never did figure out what Kafka's special effect was, despite using it extensively on my first playthrough and experimenting with it. I'd assume it either do damage over time, weaken enemy attacks, or make them vulnerable to more damage, but I wasn't able to actually notice anything. The special effects of weapons in Bayonetta 2 is a neat idea, but they should really explain in-game better how they work. In a fast paced action game like Bayonetta, most people aren't going to try the scientific method on everything they find, especially when there isn't a good practice mode to test attacks with. I'd like to see training dummies in Bayonetta 3, please.
Oddly enough, the only other Verse I've had trouble getting the Combo Platinum on so far has been in Chapter 14, where you have to fight one each of the giant ice and fire guys (Urbane and Gravitas), then one of the giant axe guys from the first game spawns in (Beloved, I think). You can't taunt in the Umbran Mech, so it's pretty hard to link your combo together between the first and second waves of the fight, and getting Platinum basically comes down to what your Mech's auto-aim targets at the instant the Beloved spawns. If it decides to shoot him, you're fine, but if it decides to turn around and aim at nothing (as it did for me half a dozen times) it's back to the title menu for you :P
That Chapter was actually surprisingly irritating to Pure Platinum for me. I've been cherrypicking levels to PP so as to avoid Balder and friends for as long as possible (because I know I'm going to struggle against those guys), so I've been clearing up all the non-humanoid boss Chapters first. I thought 14 would be easy (just hold Punch over and over, right?), but those last two flying angel fights were a real exercise in patience waiting for all the scripted events to finish so I could get back to punch-shooting.
I've been really enjoying Pure Platinuming my way through Bayonetta 2, though. Despite having been a diehard Platinum fan and having played all their games, this is the first time I've felt enticed to do the whole Pure Platinum thing, and I've just been taking it one or two Chapters a night and having fun. There's nothing quite like the feeling of waiting nervously for that ranking screen to come up, hearing the three little whoosh noises and then Bayonetta saying "Baaaaad booooooy". One of those perfect video game sound feedback things; I feel like I'm developing a Pavlovian response to it already :P
So, what do you think they'll go for as 3's main angel types (like 1 used avian humanoids and 2 used centaurs)? Hashimoto is definitely doing the enemy designs again even if he's not directing - he mentioned it being a major priority to vary up the basic shapes of the "signature" enemies to give the game its own identity.
I've seen a couple of suggestions of a lamia/naga/nure-onna snake hybrid being a potential direction to go in - they've covered a serpentine dragon before in Glamor, but it'd be very different as a 'base' angel, potentially similar to Xenoblade's Yaldabaoth.
Of course, then there's the issue of having readable movements and attack animations without legs - it could be mitigated for a 'special'/boss enemy type, but the generic grunts might need something more conventional.
I've seen a couple of suggestions of a lamia/naga/nure-onna snake hybrid being a potential direction to go in - they've covered a serpentine dragon before in Glamor, but it'd be very different as a 'base' angel, potentially similar to Xenoblade's Yaldabaoth.
Of course, then there's the issue of having readable movements and attack animations without legs - it could be mitigated for a 'special'/boss enemy type, but the generic grunts might need something more conventional.
i love the art design on the angels and demons, it's really ceramic and ornate on angels and metalic/purple/red/blue weird angles on the demons. I wonder if given the purple energy of the trailer it'll be even more hell focused, or if we'll see another faction turn up.
i mean i'll be happy as long as they aren't input reading bastards like loptr or whatever but still
i mean i'll be happy as long as they aren't input reading bastards like loptr or whatever but still
Someone suggested that a renegade Sheba (infernal equivalent of Jubileus you summon at the end of Bayo 1) could be the boss of Bayo 3. That'd be neato.
I was turned off from Bayonetta when I first tried playing it years ago because of the ranking. I know it's a silly reason, but just constantly being told that you're bad at the game didn't really endear me toward it
Thankfully now I don't care and mostly just play on easy so I can just have dumb fun, but the ranking still is somewhat of a barrier
That'd be really cool!
Now, the mixture of both Jubileus and Sheba that you summon with Balder at the very end of B2, Omne I think, would be even better
Despite not having played it in several years, I actually remember all of the hidden Verses so far in Bayo2. Though I kind of wish that I didn't remember the hidden Verses for Chapter 10...
Sloth / Malicious / Malicious and Pride / Pride / Malicious are really, really dumb. I don't even want to imagine this chapter on Infinite Climax.
Also, nothing like entering Witch Time, landing a direct hit on an attacking Pride with a Wicked Weave, and then having it finish its attack and hit you anyway without even the slightest flinch. Can't wait til I get the so that I can actually interact with enemies...
I remember that one being really hard to PP too, for the exact reason you're describing. Part of me feels like I eventually figured out a trick for it...but I can't for the life of me remember what it was. D:
Sloth / Malicious / Malicious and Pride / Pride / Malicious are really, really dumb. I don't even want to imagine this chapter on Infinite Climax.
Also, nothing like entering Witch Time, landing a direct hit on an attacking Pride with a Wicked Weave, and then having it finish its attack and hit you anyway without even the slightest flinch. Can't wait til I get the so that I can actually interact with enemies...
I remember that one being really hard to PP too, for the exact reason you're describing. Part of me feels like I eventually figured out a trick for it...but I can't for the life of me remember what it was. D:
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No Robots.So, what do you think they'll go for as 3's main angel types (like 1 used avian humanoids and 2 used centaurs)? Hashimoto is definitely doing the enemy designs again even if he's not directing - he mentioned it being a major priority to vary up the basic shapes of the "signature" enemies to give the game its own identity.
I've seen a couple of suggestions of a lamia/naga/nure-onna snake hybrid being a potential direction to go in - they've covered a serpentine dragon before in Glamor, but it'd be very different as a 'base' angel, potentially similar to Xenoblade's Yaldabaoth.
Of course, then there's the issue of having readable movements and attack animations without legs - it could be mitigated for a 'special'/boss enemy type, but the generic grunts might need something more conventional.
Two legs, four legs, six legs+ wings :
they draw themselves
I hope not.
nothing against fighting Jubileus again (i think we fight her in an alternate reality!), but Sheeba is basically black Jubileus and Omne doesn't appear to be antagonistic, and its the two godesses combined but in a lazy way, the only thing i can think of that was hinted in 2 is that supposedly someone choose Aesir to rule Chaos and organized the Gods stuff, but it could be anything.
They're both pretty much blank slates and could be fleshed out though. And their designs are great
Considering that we've explored pretty much all of the Bayonetta canon (the past, the present, and beings from all three realities), I'm hoping that Bayo3 introduces something entirely new.
I like that Bayo and Bayo2 are so tightly coupled, but I'm ready for a new story.
I like that Bayo and Bayo2 are so tightly coupled, but I'm ready for a new story.
Even though I like the ideas I mentioned above, this would definitely be the best option.
But if it was this of course Bayonetta would summon
Adult Loki
Actually, now that you mention it, it'd be fun to see Bayo gain access to Lumen powers...
Completing Hard might be better than attempting Pure Normal i think.
Use manual shooting button. It does several things at once:
a) you shoot balder and keep your combo up.
b) shooting also works as lock-on so it help to to show where he is at the moment
Shooting however can't keep the combo indefinitely -- after 4 seconds of doing nothing but shooting combo will drop and your points will "cash-in" unless you do something else. Balder also loves to block all regular gunfire and then your combo will drop ever faster. The best option to revive combo here is to do remote tetsuzanko -- as in manually summoned wicked weaved on a targeted enemy from afar. You can target him using either manual lock-on button or again -- just by shooting at him -- lipstick lock-on marker works the same.
So you shoot Balder, lipstick marker sticks to him and you do away-then-forward motion with stick and punch. If you do with a sword -- blade wicked weave will pierce him twice just like for other "big" regular enemies (like angel dogs).
Be aware of his uppercut attack -- everything else can be parried simply by mashing stick towards his general direction.
Combo limit for his encounter on Normal is not really as demanding -- you can repeat simplistic PPPPPP-mashing attack strings ending with flurry and let them drop constantly -- and you should still reach platinum combo.
For Prologue -- the same general advice "never let your combo drop" applies. As long you can keep it going from the moment you descend from the skies until the end where you jump onto Enzo's car -- you're set.
You just need Taunt during the cutscene after second wave of angels ends and egg angels appears.
Noooooo
I'm pretty sure that you can keep shooting and it'll keep your combo meter running. The 4 second window only kicks in if you stop shooting. As long as you're holding down the shoot button and hitting him with bullets, your combo should last.
Source: when I Pure Platinumed the first Lumen Sage fight with Jeanne, I did 95% of the flying phase using the Shoot button and Charge Bullet. (Which is an absurdly badly designed skill, but hey, it's OP for certain fights.)
Just using Sheba or Omne is kind of small in scope.
Even if it isn't the antagonist of 3, the original creator of the Trinity of Realities pre-armageddon would probably be that unbroken unity of what would become Aesir, Sheba and Jubileus' power - that original being should at least be alluded to if not actually present.
Even if it isn't the antagonist of 3, the original creator of the Trinity of Realities pre-armageddon would probably be that unbroken unity of what would become Aesir, Sheba and Jubileus' power - that original being should at least be alluded to if not actually present.
No. Shooting is meant to be a stop gap. Your most damage contributing MVPs are still melee, wicked weaves and hold gunfire.
Just shooting won't keep your combo up indefinitely. I mean think about it -- if it did there would be no reason whatsoever to close in on the enemies.
Just check it in-game yourself and you will see -- if you haven't noticed that your combo drops when you are just shooting already.
That's Bayonetta 2. Charge Bullet (i think) qualifies as "special move" and hence -- can keep the combo up indefinitely even when repeated constantly.
I wish it was a bit clearer with whether or not gunfire was actually working or if it was being deflected. I don't know how they'd do it though.
Btw flying suuuuuuucks and i hate it. It removes the spacing element from combat
Btw flying suuuuuuucks and i hate it. It removes the spacing element from combat
Ah, got confused as to which game we were talking about lol.
I still think that Shooting can keep your combo up forever (the reason you don't only shoot is that it has a bad combo/damage ratio and will take forever to kill enemies). But I'll break Bayo1 out tomorrow to test it. :P
EDIT: I decided to test it tonight!
I did the first Verse of the Prologue using nothing but the Shoot button. Sure enough, I got a final combo score of 28994 (which is actually surprisingly good). It took me almost 5 minutes of jumping in circles to do it, though. :P
So it seems like the Shoot buttons does keep your combo going indefinitely.
As an aside, if you get up to x99 shots, you need to get another event in the combo log to clear the first row. Witch Time + Shoot works for that. :P
On topic: for Pure Platinuming Balder, Kilgore rockets will go through his golden shield, so it's great if you have them on your feet. And Tetsuzanko also works, as azeke has already said.
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First time I've replayed a Bayonetta since 2 released back in 2014, and I'd totally forgot how shitty the game mechanic of making you search for hidden 'Alfheim' portals is. Why does Platinum have this as a game mechanic so often? Is there any defending it whatsoever? It drives me batty.
Exploring the stages isn't fun because the game systems and level designs are made for fighting, not exploring. But if you don't do it you're faced with this end-of-level assessment that makes you feel like you're missing half the game - and some of the challenges are the high points of the game. So this time around I've just resorted to using a walkthrough, which is always the sign of bad game design.
The fighting, visuals, enemy design, camp atmosphere and everything else, though... still incredible. It's just that one stupid feature that I can't stand.
Exploring the stages isn't fun because the game systems and level designs are made for fighting, not exploring. But if you don't do it you're faced with this end-of-level assessment that makes you feel like you're missing half the game - and some of the challenges are the high points of the game. So this time around I've just resorted to using a walkthrough, which is always the sign of bad game design.
The fighting, visuals, enemy design, camp atmosphere and everything else, though... still incredible. It's just that one stupid feature that I can't stand.
In Bayonetta 1 (at least) it's really obvious. Jeanne/Joys visibly block bullets with their hands, Balder has a golden shield activated.
On top of that -- all enemies also have damage effects, like Jeanne has petals coming out of her when damaged and Balder emits feathers. So if you don't see those -- then enemy is blocking.
Yeah finding the Alfheims in Bayo 1 are pretty bullshit and very obscure to find. I guarantee you a handful of them I would never found without looking it up on the internet. Particularly that one on the Epilogue. "Walk up an arbitrary distance of the statue's face without triggering the final boss then go all the way back to the bottom to get the portal. Did you trigger the final boss? Whelp fuck you start over."
In Bayo 2, this was an area they improved on drastically, and the Muspelheims were much more reasonable to find.
Making them easier to find felt like a bandaid, though... why are they there?
Especially in Bayo 1, I feel like if you don't find the first set of Alfheim's the game doesn't really teach you the basics of combat as well as it could. But if you pass those trials then you probably know the basics of the game pretty well. I felt like there had to be a better way to put them into the main progression of the game somehow.
What does that picture even mean?Just using Sheba or Omne is kind of small in scope.
Even if it isn't the antagonist of 3, the original creator of the Trinity of Realities pre-armageddon would probably be that unbroken unity of what would become Aesir, Sheba and Jubileus' power - that original being should at least be alluded to if not actually present.
Also, Hashimoto did a Cutie J in VJ's style last month; which I'm only seeing now.
It's just illustrating that Sheba or even Omne aren't the most significant or interesting figures they can focus on when it comes to the nature of the Bayonetta universe.
It's just illustrating that Sheba or even Omne aren't the most significant or interesting figures they can focus on when it comes to the nature of the Bayonetta universe.
I feel like most first time players would get frustrated with 80%+ of the Alfheims. They really are quite challenging in Bayo1 (several people in this thread have attested to that). I think that hiding them is a courtesy that Platinum provides for new players.
While the blank spots on the score screen and the Stone awards are annoying for new players, they're ultimately painless (you see them, think "Whelp, I still suck, but at least I beat it", and then move on to the next level).
With Alfheims, a new player will just get frustrated as they try it over and over and keep failing. They have the potential to be significantly more "painful" than just a shitty score screen that you click through at the end of the level.
I'm not excusing where all of the Alfheims are hidden (the Epilogue one is definitely bad, as is the one at the start of Chapter 3 where you have to destroy a random trash can), but I think that it's better for new players than if they were just out in the open.
Congratulations! Glad you enjoyed it.
Who's the guy in the top middle?Also, Hashimoto did a Cutie J in VJ's style last month; which I'm only seeing now.
It's just illustrating that Sheba or even Omne aren't the most significant or interesting figures they can focus on when it comes to the nature of the Bayonetta universe.
I know the ones on the left are Jubileus and Omne, bottom is Sheba, middle is the mysterious Bayo 3 dude, left two are Loptr and Aesir.
is the top middle one adult Loki
Interestingly enough, I felt the same way about Viewtiful Joe.
IIRC that game tracked the number of deaths over an entire play-through. After awhile I'd get so depressed looking at my save file that I never finished it.
Had way more fun with Bayo, even when I got stones.
Bottom left and top centre are both concept art of Aesir, one moon-themed and one sun-themed. They were originally a genderless being embodying aspects of the sun and moon, which was later adapted into Omne - as such, I used them as a stand-in for a hypothetical fusion of Aesir/Jubileus and Aesir/Sheba's power in the same way Omne represents the union of Jubileus and Sheba's domains.
I kinda like the way the Alfheim portals are hidden. They're done in a very old school gamey way, like "Jump over this stone in Ghouls n' Ghosts and a secret chest appears behind you."
Sure, you'll barely find any of them on your first playthrough and even then you might need a guide for some of them, but it's not like you'll need to buy an expensive guidebook nowadays, and remembering where and when they appear is part of the fun.
Sure, you'll barely find any of them on your first playthrough and even then you might need a guide for some of them, but it's not like you'll need to buy an expensive guidebook nowadays, and remembering where and when they appear is part of the fun.
Against G&G I found myself dodging before I would see their attacks (they don't really offer much telegraphing like the lesser enemies) just to be safe and it seemed to work better than just trying to aggro them and then dodging by reaction. Of course this is just me being a noob, but alas.
That part of my post wasn't exclusive to Bayo1, in Bayo2 you have less instadeath QTE's, roaming around in the levels and annoying breaks in gameplay.
Got my first ever pure plat! ;_;
Congrats. It always feels good to get a PP in the first game.
yes.
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