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nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
That Honda really is still a piece of crap.

If it really is a case of detuning for testing, then dropping to 45bhp is probably a touch extreme.
 

Dan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,950
I think Honda are gaining. As long as that trend continues, there's no reason why they can't genuinely be challenging Renault by mid-season or the end of season.
 
OP
OP
Aiii

Aiii

何これ
Member
Oct 24, 2017
8,177
It's not exactly the best deal in the world compared to the F1 service, but for those in the UK, Now TV has a £150 deal now that gives you access throughout the season: https://www.nowtv.com/promo/formula1pass

It is the cheapest option for Sky if you would normally buy a week pass for each race (esp since that price increased last month to 12,99). You still get access to all the channels, not just the F1 channel.
 

ryodi

#TeamThierry
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,346
That's a tempting price and a good way for them to get income over the summer when everyone is watching the World Cup. I'm seriously considering it.
 

Priapus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,150
There's a world if difference between smooth and refined and a bag of spanners in a washing machine. Somewhere in the middle is what I'd expect from a racing engine.

Laudas 312 v12 at idle for example


Or a Renault playing god save the queen


Neither sound like death is night for the engine and nobody on earth can say they don;t sound like race engines.

Well, it only runs on 3 cilinders in the pit so that at least accounts for the crappy sound when standing still.
 

Orgun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
218
It's not exactly the best deal in the world compared to the F1 service, but for those in the UK, Now TV has a £150 deal now that gives you access throughout the season: https://www.nowtv.com/promo/formula1pass

It is the cheapest option for Sky if you would normally buy a week pass for each race (esp since that price increased last month to 12,99). You still get access to all the channels, not just the F1 channel.

Oh damn, that might actually prevent me from signing up for the F1 TV and VPN'ing.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,037
It's not exactly the best deal in the world compared to the F1 service, but for those in the UK, Now TV has a £150 deal now that gives you access throughout the season: https://www.nowtv.com/promo/formula1pass

It is the cheapest option for Sky if you would normally buy a week pass for each race (esp since that price increased last month to 12,99). You still get access to all the channels, not just the F1 channel.

But the streaming is pretty bad quality. They were supposed to be enabling 1080p streaming soon. Shit maybe worth a punt. What's the C4 coverage this year - all races highlights or some races not covered at all?
 

Ty4on

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,953
Norway
Well, it only runs on 3 cilinders in the pit so that at least accounts for the crappy sound when standing still.
There's some interesting speculation about that being to maintain the swirl in the cylinders (higher throttle, more airflow at idle). The slight jump every 5 seconds seems to correspond to the engine switching the three cylinders it's running.

I'd love to know the design because just from the sound it's clear that the Honda design is quite different from the other engines. There's some difference, but for the most part the other engines sound mostly the same.
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,624
But the streaming is pretty bad quality. They were supposed to be enabling 1080p streaming soon. Shit maybe worth a punt. What's the C4 coverage this year - all races highlights or some races not covered at all?

It's the same mix as previous years of some live races and highlights for all the races they don't do live.
 

Staab

Member
Oct 28, 2017
538
F1 TV pass is almost a guaranteed sign-up for me.
In Switzerland, we have most races shown on free TV but I'm not fond of the commentator and it's really minimalistic (Q+R), with ads (albeit reasonable).

Just the fact that I could watch the practices, quali and races live & in replay whenever I want and switch cameras during the race to make my own selection of views is reason enough for me !
I'd also like to encourage the initiative because clearly, that's what we've been asking for the last 8 years...

Price is fairly reasonable too, even if it's 12$ per month, for 8months, that's less than 100$ for my annual F1 needs, I'm hyped :D
 
Oct 25, 2017
712
Now this sounds like a proper works partnership.

Red Bull designed and sent Honda gearboxes mere weeks after the partnership was signed to be run on their engine and chassis dynos in Milton Keynes and Sakura.

McLaren on the other hand never sent Honda their dodgy gearbox to mate and test before the first test of 2017, nor did they send a test chassis for fully integrated dyno running.

This along with the Amazon series just confirms what a Mickey Mouse operation McLaren has become under the marketing man.

"The other thing is that it's a works deal, it's a proper combined effort. There's all the dyno testing, R&D rig testing, joint-development and design work, design work for next year is already underway so all of that is very unique to our relationship to.

"It's a heavy responsibility all that actually, we're looking forward to it, it's a very positive pressure but it's a big responsibility to provide the level that Honda need to progress as well with the team they're working with. It's less opportunity for commonality definitely."

The Honda works deal has offered Toro Rosso extra resources, but Key said it has also come with extra workload that his team had never previously experienced as an engine customer.

"You kind of dream of all of this stuff and then when it all arrives on your doorstep you're like, 'Jesus there's an awful lot to do here!' We began rig testing of certain engine relating systems on the chassis side back in November. We were dyno testing the gearbox in December and have been ever since, both in Milton Keynes initially and Japan as well, so we've got gearboxes in Japan and Milton Keynes too.

"We've been able to do some cooling system tests and so on. That's where that pressure comes. It's when you've not done that in the past, while it's a great opportunity to do it it also puts the team under that added pressure of substantially more parts to manufacture, engineering support, not in Italy but around Europe or in Japan.

"There's quite a bit of added workload for that but it's all for good reasons and certainly Honda needs to have that close relationship with the team to see through those aspects. Gearbox is fundamental for the engine supplier, for example."
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
Ron Dennis personally ran over his cat and scattered the ashes in the McLaren factory.

He's beyond parody at this point.

Can't wait for him to turn on TR and RBR when things inevitably goes pear shaped.

Anyway let's hope for better weather at the next test. Lots of interesting ideas this year and less convergence than I thought.

Williams, McLaren, Renault all have lots to prove considering their heritage and RBR want to be at the front from the start, not later.

If the big 2 stumble, I don't think they'll have the massive performance gap to fall back on this year but I expect just under 0.5s between Merc and Ferrari and the rest for at least a couple of races. After that, who knows.

Last year I said McLaren could compete if only they had an engine. They didn't. I can see Honda gaining HP but their fuel efficiency and drivability was awful too. I can't see that changing any time soon and at least Renault have long moved past this even if they lack reliable performance.
 
OP
OP
Aiii

Aiii

何これ
Member
Oct 24, 2017
8,177
Last year I said McLaren could compete if only they had an engine. They didn't. I can see Honda gaining HP but their fuel efficiency and drivability was awful too. I can't see that changing any time soon and at least Renault have long moved past this even if they lack reliable performance.
Not sure what you are basing this on. Both STR drivers have gone on record to say they have no issues with the drivability of the car, their times were competitive enough for rookies in an STR and Gasly done the most keeps out of any driver at the test last week. To top it off, their speed trap times indicate their engine is performing at about Renault level now, but that's not a surprise it you look at the latter part of 2017.

Renault meanwhile have gone on record that they will probably sacrifice any engine gains in favor of reliability and will start the season without any improvement in BHP compared to late 2017.

After this test I don't see how anyone would be more worried about that Honda engine than they round about Renault's.
 
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Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
Not sure what you are basing this on. Both STR drivers have gone on record to say they have no it's with the drivability of the car, their times were competitive enough for rookies in an STR and Gasly done the most keeps out of any driver at the test last week. To top it off, their speed trap times indicate their engine is performing at about Renault level now, but that's not a surprise it you look at the latter part of 2017.

Renault meanwhile have gone on record that they will probably sacrifice any engine gains in favor of reliability and will start the season without any improvement in BHP compared to late 2017.

After this test I don't see how anyone would be more worried about that Honda engine than they round about Renault's.
Did we watch a different end to 2017?

At the latter part of the season Renault's were winning races...and exploding. Honda engines were happy to get to the end of the races.

The fact is in testing we don't know what fuel rates are being used and Mercedes especially haven't turned the wick up.

However if both Honda and Renault are de-tuning for reliability in testing then they're both setting themselves up for problems later.

I'm hoping this week they have the bravery to go further with their power and see if they can indeed be fast and reliable. After all Honda just about managed slow and reliable last year and Renault managed fast and unreliable. Both need to progress but I firmly believe that the latter is a better position, exploding exhaust aside for McLaren.

For the record we sorely need Honda to succeed. We need actual engine competition and Honda is serving as a warning to other potential entrants.

The nightmare scenario is Honda pulling a 2009 and leaving the sport, again. At that rate they'll be worse in that regard than...Renault!

Yes, I've been incredibly angry at Honda these last few years, but as a fan of theirs through their Motorsports entrants through MotoGP to BTCC, it's more because of them messing up than because of Honda themselves. Hell I'm a Swindonian in exile and the Honda plant there is world leading.

If Honda makes Brown and McLaren cry, so be it!
 

Dan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,950
Even STR acknowledge that the Honda is still behind the Renault, but they expect them to be equal at the end of the year.

I note that no one has mentioned long term reliability yet - we saw so many engine failures by Honda last year and yet this year they are expected to use three engines in a season. Having good driveability and better speed trap figures don't mean jack if the car doesn't make it to the finish.
 

AlsoZ

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,003
For the record we sorely need Honda to succeed. We need actual engine competition and Honda is serving as a warning to other potential entrants.
For a long while I was hoping this all wouldn't matter for the 2021 engine regulations, but alas, they're mostly sticking to the current engine concept...
 
Not sure what you are basing this on. Both STR drivers have gone on record to say they have no issues with the drivability of the car, their times were competitive enough for rookies in an STR and Gasly done the most keeps out of any driver at the test last week. To top it off, their speed trap times indicate their engine is performing at about Renault level now, but that's not a surprise it you look at the latter part of 2017.

Renault meanwhile have gone on record that they will probably sacrifice any engine gains in favor of reliability and will start the season without any improvement in BHP compared to late 2017.

After this test I don't see how anyone would be more worried about that Honda engine than they round about Renault's.
But... the sound!
 

Deleted member 40133

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2018
6,095
Now this sounds like a proper works partnership.

Red Bull designed and sent Honda gearboxes mere weeks after the partnership was signed to be run on their engine and chassis dynos in Milton Keynes and Sakura.

McLaren on the other hand never sent Honda their dodgy gearbox to mate and test before the first test of 2017, nor did they send a test chassis for fully integrated dyno running.

This along with the Amazon series just confirms what a Mickey Mouse operation McLaren has become under the marketing man.

The F1 fan in me is sad for what McLaren has become, the Ferrari fan In me relishes it. Not that Ferrari has had much title success lately.....still abfar cry from what has happened to McLaren though. Although of course healthy McLaren is good for F1
 

King Picollo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
376
We need competition, the more teams able to go for the top spot the better. I hope McLaren can do well and challenge, unfortunately they will never be as good as Red Bull with a Renault engine.
 

Hardan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
263
F1 TV pass is almost a guaranteed sign-up for me.
In Switzerland, we have most races shown on free TV but I'm not fond of the commentator and it's really minimalistic (Q+R), with ads (albeit reasonable).

Just the fact that I could watch the practices, quali and races live & in replay whenever I want and switch cameras during the race to make my own selection of views is reason enough for me !
I'd also like to encourage the initiative because clearly, that's what we've been asking for the last 8 years...

Price is fairly reasonable too, even if it's 12$ per month, for 8months, that's less than 100$ for my annual F1 needs, I'm hyped :D

Yep. That's exactly the same for me.
In the past I've watched half the races on C4 (those they showed live), and the other ones on swiss tv. I'm happy that they're showing them at all (though I expect it to be the next thing to be canceled due to cost), but it really is minimalistic.
I'm happy to pay for what F1TV is delivering.
 
OP
OP
Aiii

Aiii

何これ
Member
Oct 24, 2017
8,177
97x34tvv8jj01.jpg
 

DrM

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
Slovenia
And on the other side of the spectrum we have a WEC veteran and three times Le Mans winner Andre Lotterer who said that Formula E is much more demanding and difficult that he thought it would be
 
OP
OP
Aiii

Aiii

何これ
Member
Oct 24, 2017
8,177
People should watch UFC before they say women are "too frail" for motorsports.

It might take a woman more effort to get strong enough for F1 compared to a man, genetically speaking, but I just don't understand why you would dismiss it outright.
 

Deleted member 8408

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,648
People should watch UFC before they say women are "too frail" for motorsports.

It might take a woman more effort to get strong enough for F1 compared to a man, genetically speaking, but I just don't understand why you would dismiss it outright.

Once your body adapts to the g-forces and provided you have a good level of overall fitness I think motor racing is more a mental test than it is a physical one.

Consistency and making the right decisions on track ultimately decide how well the drivers end up doing over a race weekend (if we eliminate the differences in performance between the cars).
 

Dan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,950
People should watch UFC before they say women are "too frail" for motorsports.

It might take a woman more effort to get strong enough for F1 compared to a man, genetically speaking, but I just don't understand why you would dismiss it outright.

That's a pretty poor analogy - women only compete against women in the UFC.
 

AlsoZ

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,003
Whatever physical or generally biological differences you might consider when comparing men and women in racing would barely matter until you reach the top of respective racing classes.
The by far biggest difference remains the massive gulf in the gender ratio of childhood karting and continued financial support beyond that which severely limits the female talent pool, and that's not something that will change easily because you'd need a movement that essentially supports the children of wealthy+ people. Good luck with that...
 

xrnzaaas

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,125
Sometimes I feel like the FIA doesn't react to what she says because sharing their own opinion, giving her a reprimand or firing her from the commission would look worse.
 

zeknurn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,269
I read the article and I didn't find anything outrageous in what she said. That headline is god awful though.
 

Dan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,950
The point I was trying to make is that women would somehow be unable to handle the physicality of F1, which is just dumb.

It is dumb, and they could handle it - however where they might struggle is going against men (and any physical advantages they might have) in direct competition.

I have no doubt that women are easily as capable skill wise as men - and thinking about this I don't think there's any top line sport in the world that is both physical and has women competing against men.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,037
The point I was trying to make is that women would somehow be unable to handle the physicality of F1, which is just dumb.

Is it? We constantly see coverage of how fit drivers need to be, the stress on the neck, how much fluid they lose during a race. Maybe that would be too much for women to compete on an equal footing - and at the top of the sport that may mean they might get a lower tier position but unlikely to get a top drive of it compromises the team
 

Black_Stride

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
7,380
People should watch UFC before they say women are "too frail" for motorsports.

It might take a woman more effort to get strong enough for F1 compared to a man, genetically speaking, but I just don't understand why you would dismiss it outright.

That's a pretty poor analogy - women only compete against women in the UFC.


Is it? We constantly see coverage of how fit drivers need to be, the stress on the neck, how much fluid they lose during a race. Maybe that would be too much for women to compete on an equal footing - and at the top of the sport that may mean they might get a lower tier position but unlikely to get a top drive of it compromises the team

I think his point was that women can get be very strong....so the whole they are too frail to do it isnt accurate at all.

Cris Cyborg is 145lbs (65Kgs) and strong as shit.
She is the same weight and probably stronger than 90% of the current Grid.
Not that im saying she would be a great F1 driver, just pointing out that a woman in UFC can be physically ready for F1.

So a lady who is training specifically for F1 shouldnt have a problem with the physical aspect of F1, its down to skill.

01_Cris_Cyborg_Santos.jpg


I dunno how we could get more women into the F1 feeder leagues but saying they arent physically capable is not something i believe.
 

DrM

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
Slovenia
Only Mercedes, Renault and Williams are doing split program on 2nd Barcelona test

Forecast: No rain, with much more pleasant temperatures, up to 16 degrees Celsius. We will see a lot of running,
 
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Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
McLaren finally out this morning and...stops on the pit straight.

Fucking shit Honda fucking crap eng ...

Oh.

God damnit McLaren!