• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

ToTheMoon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,332
What is his "input buffer" issue mentioned from Adaren in regards to Bayonetta 2? How does it differ from the first game?

I'll spoil it just cause it's gameplay nitpicks that most people don't care about.

Basically, an input buffer lets you hit a button while your character is still taking another action in order to queue up a following action. As soon as your character finishes their current action, they'll perform the one that you've queued up for them.

Lots of fighting games use it to make it easier to link together moves. Dark Souls is also notorious for having a very long input buffer, which contributes to the "deliberate" feeling of the combat and punishes spamming.

Unlike Bayo1, Bayo2 has an extremely noticeable input buffer. For instance, if you hit Kick twice as fast as you humanly can with Love is Blue, Bayonetta will perform two Kicks. My annoyance here is that there's a very long delay between when you actually hit the second Kick (before the first Kick even came out) and when the second Kick actually happens. It makes you feel like you aren't in control of your character, because their actions aren't aligning with your button presses.

Another example is Panther Form. If you triple tap the Right Trigger in Bayo2, you'll go into Panther and then immediately Dodge because you buffered a Dodge before you even entered Panther Form. In Bayo1, you'll go into Panther Form and stay there.

For a practical combat example, if you're trying to do PPPPK with a fast weapon on your hands (say, the bow) you have to be very careful to hit the exact number of Punches that you input. If you mash too aggressively, then you will do PPPPP. But if your inputs are too delayed, then you're not attacking as fast as you could be. This can of course be overcome by being careful with your inputs, but I'd honestly rather I not have to worry about the quirks of the control scheme. I just want my character to control intuitively, and having them do actions for buttons that I hit almost a second prior gets in the way of that.

The input buffer can also make some actions easier (I think matrix-cat has had positive things to say about it), but I've honestly never had it do anything for me except cause me to do Punches when I meant to do Kicks.

EDIT: And just to clarify, there's nothing wrong with buffering inputs in general. It just has to be used appropriately. Smash Bros. does it for 10 frames and it helps the player pull off the combos and moves that they intend to do. Bayo2 does it for what feels like 40-50 frames, and the result is a disconnect between the player's intention and the action on screen.
 
Last edited:

Shepherd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,040
Finishing the first Bayo for the first time (I'm on Chapter 15 right now). Have to say that I like it less than I thought I would.
Has its moments of brilliance, and I love the cast of characters, but the amount of times I felt robbed by the game is staggering. Overly aggressive enemies + bad camera means lots of attacks coming from outside the screen. Also, don't get me started on the damn qtes, worst implementation I've ever seen in a game (both the finishers and specially the scripted ones).
Hoping Bayo 2 can fix some of those issues.
 

zoukka

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
2,361
Yeah Bayo1 has lots of jank there's no dodging around that. Even the basic combat is sometimes annoying since it's much safer to just spam dodge than to wait for the enemy to actually start attacking in some fights. That just makes me feel like I'm cheating. There's also so much QTE's and cut-scenes in relation to the actual fights...

Still I love the game.
 

LiftGammaGain

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,605
Asia-Europe
Don't get so called problems with the camera on Bayonetta, never had any...Btw i would suggest camera speed at maximum... at least thats how i play.

Don't know if its been posted already but Saur guides "The Umbran Arts" are pretty cool to newbies and pros alike. Really well put together info and worth a watch. Unfortunately...it didn't last long...but there is a ton of Bayonetta info on his channel.

 

Rafavert

Member
Oct 31, 2017
862
Portugal
Don't get so called problems with the camera on Bayonetta, never had any...Btw i would suggest camera speed at maximum... at least thats how i play.

Don't know if its been posted already but Saur guides "The Umbran Arts" are pretty cool to newbies and pros alike. Really well put together info and worth a watch. Unfortunately...it didn't last long...but there is a ton of Bayonetta info on his channel.



Neat! Is it focused on both games or just one of them?
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,132
I wonder why they didn't have a demo for 2 like on Wii U im sure it would have helped
I think a demo of Bayo 2's prologue (in the city with the jets) would quickly sell new players on picking up both games.

I also really, really, REALLY want the prologue to be the basis of a new stage in Smash Bros for Switch. Call it "Platinum Stars," named after the jets.

You could start on the jets, then continue on the train, then platform across debris, then fly a jet around the skyscraper as Gomorrah attacks! :-)

(Note: The Umbra Clock Tower stage should return as well, of course. I want both stages!)
 

Rafavert

Member
Oct 31, 2017
862
Portugal
I think a demo of Bayo 2's prologue (in the city with the jets) would quickly sell new players on picking up both games.

I also really, really, REALLY want the prologue to be the basis of a new stage in Smash Bros for Switch. Call it "Platinum Stars," named after the jets.

You could start on the jets, then continue on the train, then platform across debris, then fly a jet around the skyscraper as Gomorrah attacks! :-)

So much yes to both.

It's a shame that Bayonetta 2's ending isn't as epic as the first game's, but damn does it make up for it with that prologue! I can't think of a game with a better one.

Edit:

Speaking of the prologue, it's so full of references! The Platinum Stars jets, the name of the toy store (Wonder Toys), Enzo's tie clip (Platinum's star), Jeanne's bike from the first game (Angel Slayer) and I'm sure there's more I missed.
There's also another chapter where Bayonetta says "So you're saying diplomacy has failed." It warmed my heart =)
 

Garou Beast

Member
Oct 31, 2017
119
Man, doing pure platinum run on a first playthrough is rough. Balder is fucking cheap as hell. He's not as fun to play against as Jeanne. Jeanne seemed fairer from what I remember. Balder can instantly stop you from racking up combo points. He's super annoying.
 

Sub Boss

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
13,441
I think a demo of Bayo 2's prologue (in the city with the jets) would quickly sell new players on picking up both games.

I also really, really, REALLY want the prologue to be the basis of a new stage in Smash Bros for Switch. Call it "Platinum Stars," named after the jets.

You could start on the jets, then continue on the train, then platform across debris, then fly a jet around the skyscraper as Gomorrah attacks! :-)

(Note: The Umbra Clock Tower stage should return as well, of course. I want both stages!)
That would be amazing, another one, right on Vigrid, as it rains, becomes Paradiso, gets destrpyed by lava, gets all spacey, night, etc.
 

Sub Boss

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
13,441
Man, doing pure platinum run on a first playthrough is rough. Balder is fucking cheap as hell. He's not as fun to play against as Jeanne. Jeanne was seemed fairer from what I remember. Balder can instantly stop you from racking up combo points. He's super annoying.
I always thought it was very curious when the developers said at first every boss on 2 would feel like the final boss in 1, by final boss they didn't mean Jubileus, but bsically two Balders.
 

Garou Beast

Member
Oct 31, 2017
119
I always thought it was very curious when the developers said at first every boss on 2 would feel like the final boss in 1, by final boss they didn't mean Jubileus, but bsically two Balders.
Oh yeah, I can see that. Balder was technically the big bad of the first game.

Btw, does the demon weapons feel less effective than the angel weapons in the first game? The spear, in particular, felt awesome to use. The demon arms have too much windup.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,132
I booted up Smash WiiU the other day. I love how Bayo 1 Bayonetta looks in that game. Does anyone have a high-resolution copy of her character render, the one used for the amiibo?
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,370
Barcelona
Finally I killed the last Boss in Bayo 1 and started Bayo 2.
I remembered Bayo2 looking better than 1, but it surprised me the contrast again, Bayo2 looks stunning even today.
During the first chapter (the long one in Noatun) I noticed that in this game the trials are less hidden, but at least I haven't found the classical "backtrack half the level every time anything happens" trials that are so common in Bayo1.
I've also found them really easy, I suppose they will become hard later.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,132
Speaking of Bayo 2 looking stunning, I especially like the wide open plaza at the start of Ch. 1, when you first arrive in Noatun, with the watery reflections in the central square and the farmers market lining the streets. So beautiful... I wouldn't mind Bayo 3 returning briefly to Noatun at some point, much like how Bayo 2 revisited Vigrid.

On a side note, I'm currently smitten with the "Star Mercenary" outfit. I like the fact that it gives me a new look for my favorite weapons, Love is Blue, turning them into Arwing guns complete with rapid-fire lasers, charge shots, and the classic crosshairs during lock-on. The guns also have toys of Fox, Falco, Slippy and Peppy, so it's like you have the entire Star Fox crew with you!

One of the coolest details is how the Arwing guns have N64 sound effects when worn by Bayonetta, and SNES sound effects when worn by Jeanne. (Likewise, the Link outfit has ALttP jingles when worn by Bayonetta, and LoZ jingles when worn by Jeanne.) The Star Mercenary outfit's colors even change — the suit is green when worn by Bayo, like the one Fox wears from SF64 onwards, and brown when worn by Jeanne, as per SNES Fox.

And of course, wearing it causes the Arwing to appear when Jeanne arrives in the prologue — and allows you to actually fly the Arwing during the final chapter, complete with smart bombs and hyper lasers and everything!

The Nintendo fan service is simply top-notch in these games. It's amazing how Bayonetta has grown into an honorary Nintendo character herself, between the Bayonetta trilogy on Switch and her recent appearance in Smash Bros (complete with amiibo!).

Here are some screens I took of the Star Mercenary outfit (Arwing guns not pictured at first, since she starts with the handguns in the prologue):

2018030120455600-e27ek2ur3.jpg

2018030120460601-e27eraukl.jpg

2018030120460900-e27e3iuuu.jpg

2018030120461200-e27e6vuqm.jpg

2018030120461801-e27elvu5q.jpg

2018030120502401-e27eguufx.jpg

2018030120565801-e27efzuoh.jpg

2018030120570105-e27e3gujq.jpg

2018030120570302-e27ednu58.jpg
 
Last edited:

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,132
The arwing is cool, but those costumes were abhorrent xD
They're so good!! I love how sleek they look. I like just strutting around as Bayonetta (fox trot? lol) and admiring how the sheen of light shifts across the surface of the spandex (or whatever that material is).

I am, however, disappointed we didn't get a sexy Slippy outfit.
 

dipship31

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,179
Finished up Bayo 1 and really took my time (about 16 hours) with some grinding and chasing higher trophies. For the first few hours I was really disliking it and thought I'd just have to drudge it out to get to the superior 2nd game. Once things clicked though my eyes were opened. Super satisfying and challenging combat throughout. Really liked the game. Started up 2 and finished the first chapter and at least early on everything seems to be just a much more polished version of the first game which is more than fine for me. Even though it's early this is looking like a rare game for me that I'll want to replay multiple times.
 

Ogami Itto

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,612
Man Bayonetta is kicking my ass, I don't remember it being this hard on the PS3, the second one is a cakewalk on normal.
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,300
Bayonetta 2 is one hell of a boss rush mode
It has tons of great Bosses, I'd love to fight them one after another though.
- Gomorrah
- Glamor
- Masked Lumen
- Valor
- Insidious
- Masked Lumen 2
- Golem
- Prophet
- Alraune
- Balder
- Loptr (Young)
- Loptr
- Aesir

I don't think the Umbran Armor bosses would be necessary
I've been feeling like replaying Kid Icarus Uprising lately. Man, I want that game remade for Switch so bad.
my comment actually got me to make a thread about KI. I'm super passionate about Uprising
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,424
Finishing the first Bayo for the first time (I'm on Chapter 15 right now). Have to say that I like it less than I thought I would.
Has its moments of brilliance, and I love the cast of characters, but the amount of times I felt robbed by the game is staggering. Overly aggressive enemies + bad camera means lots of attacks coming from outside the screen. Also, don't get me started on the damn qtes, worst implementation I've ever seen in a game (both the finishers and specially the scripted ones).
Hoping Bayo 2 can fix some of those issues.

I'm fairly certain enemies are hardcoded not to attack from off-screen on normal difficulty with rare exceptions (angel trumpets for example that have huge sound cues).

Yeah Bayo1 has lots of jank there's no dodging around that. Even the basic combat is sometimes annoying since it's much safer to just spam dodge than to wait for the enemy to actually start attacking in some fights. That just makes me feel like I'm cheating. There's also so much QTE's and cut-scenes in relation to the actual fights...

Still I love the game.

You know possibly one of the reasons I don't really find the QTEs and minigame pacing issues that bad is that I spent probably about 70% of my time in Bayo 1 just playing Angel Slayer over and over once I unlocked it (besides the requisite Hard/Very Hard/NSIC run

Also I totally disagree that it's safer to spam dodge, unless you're offsetting at the same time. The 5 dodge limit + the window of vulnerability between dodges really does mean you gotta time it well. Besides, it's Bayo 1, so if you can get even a single weave out you can get enough stagger time to breath easy for a little while
 

Narroo

Banned
Feb 27, 2018
1,819
Y'all are making Bayo 2 sound like a mess lmao. Is it that bad, combat wise?
On Infinite Climax Mode: Yes, it's a giant unfun mess! On Hard or Lower...the flaws are noticeable but it's still a good game. You just can't do as much.

Adaren, I was just playing Bayo 2 and launching heavy enemies (punting them back and up) with basic PPKK and PPPKK weaves (heel forward, heel up). I don't find these enemies to be unmovable tanks like you claim. But I feel like we're from different universes on this subject because I find Bayo 1 a bit of a chore, and Bayo 2 much more fluid and fun.

I kinda hope they remake Bayo 1 some day to have more fluid controls and a more vibrant color scheme like Bayo 2's Vigrid in Ch. 13. They could also take out the motorcycle, missile and turret sections, the QTEs, and maybe have more varied locations (instead of Vigrid sunset, Vigrid Paradiso, Vigrid on fire, Vigrid rain, Vigrid night, etc). I think Bayo 1's plot could use some editing too; feels like a purposeless journey until Balder's long speech at the end.

Yeah, you can occasionally launch them up for a second or two, but then after that you're done. It's basically a stun; you can't really do much else with it whereas is Bayonetta 1 you could throw them around town and extend it.
 

Pyramid Head

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,838
Yeah Bayo1 has lots of jank there's no dodging around that. Even the basic combat is sometimes annoying since it's much safer to just spam dodge than to wait for the enemy to actually start attacking in some fights. That just makes me feel like I'm cheating.
I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here. In what situations would you spam dodge rather than actually just timing a dodge to an incoming attack, or just launching the first attack yourself? And in what way does Bayonetta 2 differ in that regard? I can't say I've experienced this particular annoyance in either game.
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,424
Given the Smash trailer was actually narrated by Palutena and Pit they really should hang out
 

Golnei

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,823
Now I want Bayonetta wearing Pit's clothes in Bayo 3.

Also Palutena's. What a great (re)design.

They'd probably be a bit too recent - compare to how Kamiya insisted on the NES Power Suit compared to the Other M one Cho originally drafted. The Uprising characters and the similarly popular suggestion of the Zero Suit wouldn't really fit in with the series preferences towards more retro references.

Something like the SNES Captain Falcon costume could fit in well, but I'm not sure about which others would be organic choices and still look good - a sexy ROB or Mr Game & Watch could prove unfortunate.
 

catboy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,322
I feel like the grab attack the dogs have where they jump on Bayo and shake her about has a really wonky hitbox tbh.
 

Igor

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,483
I just started play through of Bayo 2 on Hard and one thing I have noticed that I am not sure if it is Hard difficulty or playing with Jeanne but... I seem to be missing Witch Time far more often? Is the timing tighter on hard? I tried to replay chapter X with her on Normal and also felt like I am struggling with Witch Time more than usual.

Then again, demons in that level can be absolute bitch to evade.
 

Deleted member 4609

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
767
I just started play through of Bayo 2 on Hard and one thing I have noticed that I am not sure if it is Hard difficulty or playing with Jeanne but... I seem to be missing Witch Time far more often? Is the timing tighter on hard? I tried to replay chapter X with her on Normal and also felt like I am struggling with Witch Time more than usual.

Then again, demons in that level can be absolute bitch to evade.

Jeanne can only trigger Witch Time with Bat Within or a perfect parry, not by dodging normally.
 

Narroo

Banned
Feb 27, 2018
1,819
You know, comparing GameFAQs entries for Bayonetta 1 and Bayonetta 2, one can really see a difference. Is it me, or do most games not receive much online documentation from fans anymore?
 

Deleted member 7148

Oct 25, 2017
6,827
I just finished Bayonetta for the first time. I enjoyed the game quite a bit but I did have a few issues with it. The QTEs with the small windows of success were annoying. The on-rails segments with the motorcycles and missiles weren't very fun and overstayed their welcome. Also, the look of the game was rather repetitive with the constant use of dark grey and brown environments. Otherwise, it was an enjoyable game with fun combat.

Just started up Bayonetta 2 and knocked out the first chapter. Can already tell the game looks and plays much better than the original. Looking forward to diving in.
 

Cocobani

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
778
Speaking of Bayo 2 looking stunning, I especially like the wide open plaza at the start of Ch. 1, when you first arrive in Noatun, with the watery reflections in the central square and the farmers market lining the streets. So beautiful... I wouldn't mind Bayo 3 returning briefly to Noatun at some point, much like how Bayo 2 revisited Vigrid.

On a side note, I'm currently smitten with the "Star Mercenary" outfit. I like the fact that it gives me a new look for my favorite weapons, Love is Blue, turning them into Arwing guns complete with rapid-fire lasers, charge shots, and the classic crosshairs during lock-on. The guns also have toys of Fox, Falco, Slippy and Peppy, so it's like you have the entire Star Fox crew with you!

One of the coolest details is how the Arwing guns have N64 sound effects when worn by Bayonetta, and SNES sound effects when worn by Jeanne. (Likewise, the Link outfit has ALttP jingles when worn by Bayonetta, and LoZ jingles when worn by Jeanne.) The Star Mercenary outfit's colors even change — the suit is green when worn by Bayo, like the one Fox wears from SF64 onwards, and brown when worn by Jeanne, as per SNES Fox.

And of course, wearing it causes the Arwing to appear when Jeanne arrives in the prologue — and allows you to actually fly the Arwing during the final chapter, complete with smart bombs and hyper lasers and everything!

The Nintendo fan service is simply top-notch in these games. It's amazing how Bayonetta has grown into an honorary Nintendo character herself, between the Bayonetta trilogy on Switch and her recent appearance in Smash Bros (complete with amiibo!).

Here are some screens I took of the Star Mercenary outfit (Arwing guns not pictured at first, since she starts with the handguns in the prologue):

2018030120455600-e27ek2ur3.jpg

2018030120460601-e27eraukl.jpg

2018030120460900-e27e3iuuu.jpg

2018030120461200-e27e6vuqm.jpg

2018030120461801-e27elvu5q.jpg

2018030120502401-e27eguufx.jpg

2018030120565801-e27efzuoh.jpg

2018030120570105-e27e3gujq.jpg

2018030120570302-e27ednu58.jpg
Are these screenshots from handheld mode? If so, I might need to reconsider and buy the game. That looks so good.
 

Shepherd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,040
I'm fairly certain enemies are hardcoded not to attack from off-screen on normal difficulty with rare exceptions (angel trumpets for example that have huge sound cues)./QUOTE]
Those fire and ice clawed demons also attack from offscreen, and basically any projectile. Those from the top of my head.
 

Cocobani

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
778
Handheld mode and docked both run at 720p and look pretty much identical, barring texture filtering iirc
I guess what I was trying to ask was if the game actually looks that sharp in handheld mode seeing as that's it's native resolution and the pics look amazing on my phone even when blown up. Sometimes game screens look better on smartphones due to the size of the screen and their high PPI.
 

catboy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,322
I guess what I was trying to ask was if the game actually looks that sharp in handheld mode seeing as that's it's native resolution and the pics look amazing on my phone even when blown up. Sometimes game screens look better on smartphones due to the size of the screen and their high PPI.
Oh okay, in that case yeah, the game looks incredibly good in handheld mode.
 

Aske

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,578
Canadia
I wonder what the results will be for Kamiya's poll. More Kamiya followers will have played Bayo 1 (because it was released across more platforms), but I think Bayo 2 is the more popular game for most fans of the series who have played both. It's a much more rewarding experience for a single playthrough than the first game, even though it's a much less rewarding experience on higher difficulties.
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,424

Don't think so... i'll test it tonight, but pretty sure Grace and Glory will only begin an attack move while they're on-screen. Once they start one of course they finish it, so if you twirl your camera around they'll follow through. But I'm fairly certain on normal mode and maybe even on hard mode most attacks without sound cues don't initiate from off-screen.
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,914
Decided to get Bayonetta 1 since it was only 30$ on the eshop and I've never played it before. Fuck me this game is good. I am also getting my ass royally kicked. Like 7 chapters in and almost all are stone rewards. Will probably pick up Bayonetta 2 later this month or after I get a lot of playtime out of this one. Really nice that they don't force you to buy both at the same time at full price. More HD collections should do that.
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,424
don't worry. you're almost guaranteed to get stone awards first time through just because of alfheims and the fact that kamiya keeps hiding verses that only trigger if you backtrack for no reason
 

Sky Walker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
821
is it just me or getting platinum medal for combos in Bayo2 is way harder than what it used to be in Bayo1 ?
 

Garou Beast

Member
Oct 31, 2017
119
is it just me or getting platinum medal for combos in Bayo2 is way harder than what it used to be in Bayo1 ?

Enemies can just phase through Wicked Weaves like they're nothing. Balder and the demons in particular. Hell, Balder just no sells Umbran Climax at random times. So yeah, by default it's harder to get pure plats.

I'm doing a first Pure Platinum run myself:
DXfG550VoAAvvnv.jpg