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tellNoel

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,254
Oh yeah, I'm in that same boat. That's why I kind of get Damiani but also why I wouldn't try to be on a panel too. I think he has a lot of say but needs work on how to say it.
During many podcasts he looks really tired most of the time. I think he's very good in Friend Code. It actually surprised me how different his energy level is while hosting FC as opposed to the podcast most of the time. Maybe he saves up all of his energy for that show lol
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,136
I just noticed next EZAnime is Hero Academia. Nice surprise for me, I've been enjoying that series for a good while now(basically since it launched in Jump) and just recently went into the anime proper cause recent manga chapters(current arc) had me especially engrossed.
Also shout out to Dr.Stone which has all the makings of being the newest great thing out of Jump.
 
Oct 29, 2017
458
During many podcasts he looks really tired most of the time. I think he's very good in Friend Code. It actually surprised me how different his energy level is while hosting FC as opposed to the podcast most of the time. Maybe he saves up all of his energy for that show lol

Damiani seems to be fairly reserved on most topics except when it comes to things that he is particularly passionate about (e.g. FFXIV).

It works well in his favour when he's on other podcasts because he tends to serve as a balanced voice. It's only when it's about a topic that he has a more biased opinion that we see him take a position that is more akin to how Huber tends to adopt a stance in arguments. I think that works for him and its his particular flavour.
 

TheDarkKnight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,524
Tomorrow's stream schedule has some surprises. It's cool they're streaming blizzcon's opening ceremony. Hope we get another deep mind update.

And Damiani is streaming AC origins. I never would have expected him to stream that game. But I appreciate an effort to stream more newly released games. It's an area I think they should try to do more of
 

Uno Venova

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,858
Yeaup, Odyssey made the GOTY deliberations in my head much easier. Persona 5 and Horizon were battling it out but nope. This is the one.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,136
Tomorrow's stream schedule has some surprises. It's cool they're streaming blizzcon's opening ceremony. Hope we get another deep mind update.

And Damiani is streaming AC origins. I never would have expected him to stream that game. But I appreciate an effort to stream more newly released games. It's an area I think they should try to do more of

I appreciate this too. I honestly use some of their show case streams on new games as giantbomb quick looks so it's always nice if someone streams a little bit of new releases close to release.
 
Oct 27, 2017
277
And Damiani is streaming AC origins. I never would have expected him to stream that game. But I appreciate an effort to stream more newly released games. It's an area I think they should try to do more of

Reminds me of last Christmas holidays where Damiani streamed playthroughs of some of the years biggest AAA releases that he hadn't played during the year itself. I have huge respect for the guy being someone with very defined preferences yet still making the effort to experience the breadth of gaming. He's a games journalist so it shouldn't surprise me but still, it's cool to see.

Playing the Wind Waker music whilst streaming Uncharted 4 during the boat segment was a highlight.
 

Prompto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,982
Yeaup, Odyssey made the GOTY deliberations in my head much easier. Persona 5 and Horizon were battling it out but nope. This is the one.
I still need to play Persona 5 and Horizon(considering getting both tomorrow with that Target deal) but yeah Odyssey is so good. It's overtaken Zelda as my favorite this year for sure.
 
Oct 25, 2017
981
Yeaup, Odyssey made the GOTY deliberations in my head much easier. Persona 5 and Horizon were battling it out but nope. This is the one.

I still need to play Persona 5 and Horizon(considering getting both tomorrow with that Target deal) but yeah Odyssey is so good. It's overtaken Zelda as my favorite this year for sure.

It's the opposite for me. Odyssey for me cemented either Zelda or persona5 for goty. I'll remember those 2 for a long time to come. Unless Xenoblade is a masterpiece
 
Oct 27, 2017
951
During many podcasts he looks really tired most of the time. I think he's very good in Friend Code. It actually surprised me how different his energy level is while hosting FC as opposed to the podcast most of the time. Maybe he saves up all of his energy for that show lol

I think Damiani collects his thoughts until asked to share them. FC is his show so he is able to collect those thoughts in advance and prep how he wants to present them which leads to coming across as more energetic for his own show since it isn't as on the cuff. I genuinely feel his passion in all the FC episodes I've seen which keeps me coming back.
 

ShadyK54

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,272
Texas
The Danganronpa V3 review is out!



4 stars was about the score I was expecting.

Another great Ben review!
 

Elfforkusu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,098
Yeaup, Odyssey made the GOTY deliberations in my head much easier. Persona 5 and Horizon were battling it out but nope. This is the one.
IMO it's still clearly, clearly Zelda. Odyssey is incredible, but in a lot of ways it feels like a love letter to gaming's past. There's nothing wrong with that, but to me BOTW represents gaming's future, and it's more exciting for that reason.
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
IMO it's still clearly, clearly Zelda. Odyssey is incredible, but in a lot of ways it feels like a love letter to gaming's past. There's nothing wrong with that, but to me BOTW represents gaming's future, and it's more exciting for that reason.
I've seen a few people say stuff like this and I don't understand it at all. Breath of the Wild is basically "let's remake the original NES Legend of Zelda, but in 2017", whereas Odyssey is basically just million and a half weird new ideas that don't even try to work well together.

I prefer Zelda but I get much bigger throwback vibes from it than from Mario.
 

Elfforkusu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,098
I've seen a few people say stuff like this and I don't understand it at all. Breath of the Wild is basically "let's remake the original NES Legend of Zelda, but in 2017", whereas Odyssey is basically just million and a half weird new ideas that don't even try to work well together.

I prefer Zelda but I get much bigger throwback vibes from it than from Mario.
Right, Odyssey is a bunch of weird, brilliantly done ideas. Some of those have appeared before in other games, and all of them (apart from the core platforming) are simple mechanics that you'd expect to see as the dominant concept of an arcade-y Dreamcast/PS2 era title. It's brilliant because EPD 8 is so good at what they do -- it's hard to imagine any other development studio in the world, for any company, with any game director, that could nail and blend dozens of disparate game ideas as seamlessly and (apparently) effortlessly as they did. But the brilliance is in the execution, the design of the overall game is a fairly rote thing. It's a Mario game with a side dish of a wonderful collection of classic gameplay ideas.

BOTW is a radical departure from anything classical. You can say "it's Zelda 1 remade!", or "Zelda goes open world", but the type of game BOTW is: marrying its wonderfully wacky physics/chemistry system with non-linearity and exploration, throwing existing conventions to the side with what appears to almost be disgust ... that is a different level of ambition. If it's obvious that BOTW is "let's remake Zelda 1", it's because they did it so well that we refuse to acknowledge that there were other potential outcomes. Few games have even tried to do what that game did in 2D, much less in 3D, much less a 3D open world. Now that it's been done, I think we'll see other development studios incorporate some of those ideas, and match or even surpass BOTW in different ways. But none of them had the skill or audacity to do it first. Odyssey is incredible, but there is no way (IMO obviously) that it will change the industry like BOTW will over the next decade or so.

That's what I mean when I say it's the future. It's redefined the limits of what's possible.
 

Deleted member 5086

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,571
Still haven't finished Odyssey (I think I'm at the part where it supposedly gets better and better), but BotW is still my GotY for now. Nothing I've played this year has matched the feeling that BotW gave me when playing it, and I had serious post-game depression after completing it where nothing else felt fun or engaging for months. I'll be very impressed if Odyssey matches or surpasses that kind of experience once I'm done with it, but if any game is going to do it, it will probably be Odyssey. Persona 5 is a great game, but I felt the pacing wasn't that good. I had to drag myself across the half way-ish mark, but it eventually picked up for me towards the end, so I'm glad I finished it. I'm going to play NieR after I'm done with Odyssey, so that could be another GotY contender for me too.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
I wish I could see BotW with the awe you guys see it with. But to me, it honestly comes across as regressive open world design when compared to the genre leader (Witcher 3).

Dumb side quests, collectibles that become increasingly meaningless the more you collect them, a difficulty curve that wasn't tuned properly at all and a largely bland open world.

I don't see many devs taking much, if at all, from BotW. To me, Witcher 3 seems to be the game everyone would want to chase. Especially when you consider that BotWs biggest strength (climb almost anything) is not something that most games will benefit from, so it's not something most devs will even consider implementing.
 

Deleted member 5086

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,571
I think the fact that this many months after release, people are still finding out things that you can do in BotW is what made that experience so magical for me. With the newly added 30 second capture feature in Nintendo Switch, people have been uploading cool short clips to twitter that make me think, wait, you can do that? And I played that game for 190 hours before forcing myself to move on.



dm6-opoxkaadyhquus0p.jpg


That's what BotW was for me. The sense of wonder, freedom and exploration. I think it all depends on what you treasure the most in gaming. That's why I can see why BotW could be the GOAT to one person, and not click at all with another.

But honestly I think some people took the 'you can do anything!' comments in reviews too literally. Of course you can't do anything and everything. But the physics engine allows you to do a lot of things that you wouldn't think to do normally in a video game, but make sense with the set of rules present in the game's universe. Most people would not think to use magnesis on a spinning boomerang and use it as a buzzsaw, but you can do it if you're creative enough to think of it. That and the world being extremely charming to me made the experience I had playing it unmatched, even if there were some glaring faults that stuck out to me. It's just overall the strengths far outweigh the shortcomings. What makes me most excited, though, is the way that they can build on the formula in upcoming games, with this being the team's first attempt at a modern open world Zelda game. BotW isn't my favourite Zelda game, but I can absolutely see why it would be someone else's.
 

Hasney

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,599
... Of course that works. It's the only game where everything works like it should. Godammit, it's so simple.
 

Charamiwa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,055
I wish I could see BotW with the awe you guys see it with. But to me, it honestly comes across as regressive open world design when compared to the genre leader (Witcher 3).

Dumb side quests, collectibles that become increasingly meaningless the more you collect them, a difficulty curve that wasn't tuned properly at all and a largely bland open world.

I don't see many devs taking much, if at all, from BotW. To me, Witcher 3 seems to be the game everyone would want to chase. Especially when you consider that BotWs biggest strength (climb almost anything) is not something that most games will benefit from, so it's not something most devs will even consider implementing.
I think you're underestimating the effect BOTW might have on other devs. I remember the Game Informer interviews with Ken Levine and three other devs and they were all gushing about its design.

As for the other points, I hear you, but that really wasn't my experience. Dumb sidequests for instance, sure some of them are brainless, and most of them are simple. But simple in this game leads to great moments. I remember one where a girl shows you a weird single tree on top of a mountain in the distance, and you basically just have to go there and investigate. Simple, but the way it strips pretty much any direction or menus other than pure exploration is great. Basically, I'd argue that a "dumb sidequest" shines more in a game designed like BOTW rather than, say, a Ubisoft game. Also there are some legit great quests.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,545
I think the shield surfing is the perfect analogy of the game for me.

Look at this really cool thing you can do! But it damages your shield and you have a limited inventory so dont do the cool thing that you want to do. The stamina meter, the weapon degredation, the limited inventory, the weather forcing me to change clothes when i go to a new area, the rain coming and making me slide down a mountain im climbling, etc etc. The game just irritates me, its constant, and never stops.
 

Charamiwa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,055
Shield surfing doesn't damage your shield if you do it on grass, snow or sand. So the philosophy would be more "be mindful of your environment".
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
I think you're underestimating the effect BOTW might have on other devs. I remember the Game Informer interviews with Ken Levine and three other devs and they were all gushing about its design.

As for the other points, I hear you, but that really wasn't my experience. Dumb sidequests for instance, sure some of them are brainless, and most of them are simple. But simple in this game leads to great moments. I remember one where a girl shows you a weird single tree on top of a mountain in the distance, and you basically just have to go there and investigate. Simple, but the way it strips pretty much any direction or menus other than pure exploration is great. Basically, I'd argue that a "dumb sidequest" shines more in a game designed like BOTW rather than, say, a Ubisoft game. Also there are some legit great quests.

We'll see. I doubt much comes of it because most open world games would have to give up parts of their game design considerably (e.g. story) to be able to adapt some of BotWs non-linear tendencies and other aspects. And not every dev is going to be willing to put in a, frankly garbage, plot like BotW to accommodate for that. Especially as they don't have the Legend of Zelda IP to hide such a non-plot behind when it comes to sales and overall reception.

... Of course that works. It's the only game where everything works like it should. Godammit, it's so simple.

But it really doesn't. The physics can be really limiting in some ways and that basically put a downer in my playthrough.

The game promises this sort of unlimited freedom. I see a sleeping enemy. I spend countless instances trying to perfect my tree chopping skills.

Finally get the tree chop lined up to land on the sleeping enemy only to find out that there's no hit detection on the landing tree/it does no damage.

And there were a lot of little things like that that I wanted to do but couldn't. It made me realize that BotW isn't a true physics sandbox like I thought it was. It's just a huge collection of really cool things you can do and you sorta have to hope that the way you play works within the confines of the game and hopefully the physics system supports that.
 

Hasney

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,599
OK, everything I tried worked how I wanted when I tried stuff. AT the very least, more stuff worked than didn't, especially compared to every other game..

I still need to decide which on is #1 and #2 out of Mario and Zelda, but nothing else comes close to either and I'm not talking GOTY, I'm talking all time. Zelda had pretty much everything I wanted from a Zelda game since reaching Hyrule Field in OoT... But I had such a smile on my face the entire time of Mario.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
OK, everything I tried worked how I wanted when I tried stuff. AT the very least, more stuff worked than didn't, especially compared to every other game..

I still need to decide which on is #1 and #2 out of Mario and Zelda, but nothing else comes close to either and I'm not talking GOTY, I'm talking all time. Zelda had pretty much everything I wanted from a Zelda game since reaching Hyrule Field in OoT... But I had such a smile on my face the entire time of Mario.

Sure, but most games aren't promising a physics sandbox so that comparison isn't exactly fair.
 

Urbannomad123

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
347
Rugby, England
OK, everything I tried worked how I wanted when I tried stuff. AT the very least, more stuff worked than didn't, especially compared to every other game..

I still need to decide which on is #1 and #2 out of Mario and Zelda, but nothing else comes close to either and I'm not talking GOTY, I'm talking all time. Zelda had pretty much everything I wanted from a Zelda game since reaching Hyrule Field in OoT... But I had such a smile on my face the entire time of Mario.
I am in complete agreement with this. For me it is very clear that the two games vying for GOTY are Mario and Zelda but it always feels a bit jarring to me when I hear them talked about only in this context. The debate I am having in my head is which is the best game of all time.
 

Deleted member 5086

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,571
I think you're underestimating the effect BOTW might have on other devs. I remember the Game Informer interviews with Ken Levine and three other devs and they were all gushing about its design.

As for the other points, I hear you, but that really wasn't my experience. Dumb sidequests for instance, sure some of them are brainless, and most of them are simple. But simple in this game leads to great moments. I remember one where a girl shows you a weird single tree on top of a mountain in the distance, and you basically just have to go there and investigate. Simple, but the way it strips pretty much any direction or menus other than pure exploration is great. Basically, I'd argue that a "dumb sidequest" shines more in a game designed like BOTW rather than, say, a Ubisoft game. Also there are some legit great quests.

I agree. And besides the side quests, there were a lot of cool things in the game that were not tied to any kind of side quest, and I just stumbled upon due to exploration (What's that thing over there?) or an NPC casually mentioning something related to it, e.g.

Eventide Island, the top of Mount Lanayru, the Lord of the Mountain etc.

Some of the side quests are simple fetch quests, yes, but there are others which encourage you to explore naturally like the
Leviathan side quests, and other interesting ones like the Tarrey Town side quest
which I found very touching.

One of BotW's greatest strengths is that points of interest are not revealed to you in the map, but rather the game directs you to them through either the NPCs or it silently guides you to them through game design. That's why I personally saw the towers more like the maps that the fish draw for you in Wind Waker rather than Ubi Towers. Only the outline of the area is revealed to you, but you have to find any points of interest yourself. There's something about scouting out shrines, stables and towns yourself from a high vantage point that makes exploration so much more rewarding.
 

ZeroNoir_

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,726
27 moons in Odyseey I say that BOTW is better for the design and sheer simplicity. Mario is good, platforming bliss, but BOTW is on another level of greatness.
 

ShadyK54

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,272
Texas
I wish I could see BotW with the awe you guys see it with. But to me, it honestly comes across as regressive open world design when compared to the genre leader (Witcher 3).

Dumb side quests, collectibles that become increasingly meaningless the more you collect them, a difficulty curve that wasn't tuned properly at all and a largely bland open world.

I don't see many devs taking much, if at all, from BotW. To me, Witcher 3 seems to be the game everyone would want to chase. Especially when you consider that BotWs biggest strength (climb almost anything) is not something that most games will benefit from, so it's not something most devs will even consider implementing.

R1fdEt3.gif
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,136
Whoever has been keeping this up to date, thanks. The EZA website is already pretty underrated given how many don't seem to know about it and do often wonder about what the schedule is like(most people seem to strongly rely on the twitch one which has often been a bit late to update/adapt to sudden changes), but I think this box is especially underrated. So nice to know what's on the horizon to keep the excitement for content up. It was/is a great addition to the site.
ricketyrick.png
 

ByteSizeRick

Member
Oct 27, 2017
129
I wish I could see BotW with the awe you guys see it with. But to me, it honestly comes across as regressive open world design when compared to the genre leader (Witcher 3).

Dumb side quests, collectibles that become increasingly meaningless the more you collect them, a difficulty curve that wasn't tuned properly at all and a largely bland open world.

I don't see many devs taking much, if at all, from BotW. To me, Witcher 3 seems to be the game everyone would want to chase. Especially when you consider that BotWs biggest strength (climb almost anything) is not something that most games will benefit from, so it's not something most devs will even consider implementing.

I disagree, not with your premise, but with your conclusion. Witcher is one of my top 5 games of all time, but BOTW is probably pretty close. I agree that Witcher offers a more fulfilling experience, particularly narratively, but I don't believe that the Witcher's strengths are as easily copied as BOTW's. In particular, I would argue that if there is any deficit of talent in the video game industry as presently constructed it is in writing and narrative design. Witcher is the clear exception to that and presents some of the best writing ever seen in games. Other production houses are, in my opinion, simply not set up to be able to match that success.

Look at Assassin's Creed Origins, a game I really like (so far). Origins is the clearest example we have of the Witcher's influence. You can see it in every moment of gameplay. Equipment, questlines, RPG skill trees, etc. And yet... its simply not as good. There is a shallowness to its quests, to its overall plot, to its pacing that is nowhere present in Witcher. The Ubisoft developers, as many of them as there are, were not hired with an emphasis on the narrative design that the Witcher brings to the table.

On the other hand, BOTW is brilliant, but I can see many more of its ideas being able to be copied by other developers. Fire as element. Weather effects. Climb Everywhere. Opaque quest direction (the real jewel in BOTW's crown, in my opinion). These things exist in physics engines and world design that is the primary strength of the current industry. Because of that, I think BOTW's follow-on effects will be more keenly felt than Witcher's as folks like Ubisoft (or more importantly their investors) realize that copying Witcher is actually really difficult.
 
Oct 29, 2017
458
It's the opposite for me. Odyssey for me cemented either Zelda or persona5 for goty. I'll remember those 2 for a long time to come. Unless Xenoblade is a masterpiece

I am the same. I feel like Zelda just gave me more of a fulfilling experience -- one that I'm still returning to, even now -- that Mario has been unable to capture. It's hard to encapsulate in a few words why that is the case, but it just does.
 

Charamiwa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,055
We'll see. I doubt much comes of it because most open world games would have to give up parts of their game design considerably (e.g. story) to be able to adapt some of BotWs non-linear tendencies and other aspects. And not every dev is going to be willing to put in a, frankly garbage, plot like BotW to accommodate for that. Especially as they don't have the Legend of Zelda IP to hide such a non-plot behind when it comes to sales and overall reception.



But it really doesn't. The physics can be really limiting in some ways and that basically put a downer in my playthrough.

The game promises this sort of unlimited freedom. I see a sleeping enemy. I spend countless instances trying to perfect my tree chopping skills.

Finally get the tree chop lined up to land on the sleeping enemy only to find out that there's no hit detection on the landing tree/it does no damage.

And there were a lot of little things like that that I wanted to do but couldn't. It made me realize that BotW isn't a true physics sandbox like I thought it was. It's just a huge collection of really cool things you can do and you sorta have to hope that the way you play works within the confines of the game and hopefully the physics system supports that.

I really don't see how the story is "garbage". It was a bit disappointing how it amounted to quite little in the end, but are we really to that point where we need to throw hyperboles like that to attack a beloved game (see also: Witcher 3's combat). I thought the characters you meet are great, there's some nice lore and various rumors and legends tied to towns, some races are more fleshed out than ever before and the main thrust of the game, the Beasts, is simple but mostly fine. There's nothing offensive about the story, especially since it doesn't actually try to create something complex or deep.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
I disagree, not with your premise, but with your conclusion. Witcher is one of my top 5 games of all time, but BOTW is probably pretty close. I agree that Witcher offers a more fulfilling experience, particularly narratively, but I don't believe that the Witcher's strengths are as easily copied as BOTW's. In particular, I would argue that if there is any deficit of talent in the video game industry as presently constructed it is in writing and narrative design. Witcher is the clear exception to that and presents some of the best writing ever seen in games. Other production houses are, in my opinion, simply not set up to be able to match that success.

Look at Assassin's Creed Origins, a game I really like (so far). Origins is the clearest example we have of the Witcher's influence. You can see it in every moment of gameplay. Equipment, questlines, RPG skill trees, etc. And yet... its simply not as good. There is a shallowness to its quests, to its overall plot, to its pacing that is nowhere present in Witcher. The Ubisoft developers, as many of them as there are, were not hired with an emphasis on the narrative design that the Witcher brings to the table.

On the other hand, BOTW is brilliant, but I can see many more of its ideas being able to be copied by other developers. Fire as element. Weather effects. Climb Everywhere. Opaque quest direction (the real jewel in BOTW's crown, in my opinion). These things exist in physics engines and world design that is the primary strength of the current industry. Because of that, I think BOTW's follow-on effects will be more keenly felt than Witcher's as folks like Ubisoft (or more importantly their investors) realize that copying Witcher is actually really difficult.

Part of the reason I'm unconvinced as to some of these elements being copied or as a point of influence is that they've been done before, and usually better and have never really taken off.

Fire for example. Far Cry has done fire propogation and in a much more in depth way some time ago. BotW in comparison is very simple, doesn't really spread in any meaningful way and is largely used for other interactions (e.g. boosting yourself high via the wind). But as an element, it's implemented fairly simplistically.

Yet Ubisoft themselves has chosen to forego those sophisticated gameplay system implementations in later titles. And I think that's because, the Witcher 3 model, if you attempt to emulate it, is immediately more appealing to a larger audience then not. It hits the notes that the mainstream audience is looking for, even if not implemented all that successfully. We have both AC: Origins and Horizon this year as examples, two titles that have done very well both critically and commericially.

On the other hand, the model to emulate from BotW is much harder. Climb anywhere is extremely situational and not a good fit for most games. And that applies to most things that BotW does. What BotW does well, it does well within the very specific confines of what it wants to be and sets out to do.

I don't think it will be a big influence precisely because most publishers making open world titles aren't attempting to make games like that. They want story driven games with meangingful side content they can sell to the mainstream audience.

And that's because most publishers and open world games do not have the benefit of having the Legend of Zelda IP to fall back on. Quality only gets you so far in terms of being a success.

Titles like Dishonored 2 and Prey might be some of the closest similarities to BotW in terms of design and they were and are huge commericial bombs, as much as I love them.

I really don't see how the story is "garbage". It was a bit disappointing how it amounted to quite little in the end, but are we really to that point where we need to throw hyperboles like that to attack a beloved game (see also: Witcher 3's combat). I thought the characters you meet are great, there's some nice lore and various rumors and legends tied to towns, some races are more fleshed out than ever before and the main thrust of the game, the Beasts, is simple but mostly fine. There's nothing offensive about the story, especially since it doesn't actually try to create something complex or deep.
Not hyperbole for me. I found the story in BotW to be garbage and that voice acting was awful. And yea, Witcher combat sucks.
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
Story in Zelda was pretty bad, but I loooooove the general premise and the atmosphere you get because of it. Ancient evil returning from beyond to decimate the world is so cool. I probably would have enjoyed the game less if more of Hyrule was as peaceful as Hatteno.
 

Uno Venova

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,858
I'm more inclined to agree with Prime on this subject. BOTW was a huge disappointment after disappointment.

"Okay, the story is really light but it probably get's better as time goes on" Turns out there's really only about 10 minutes of straight exposition during the 5 dungeons including the last level.

"Okay, that first dungeon was really bad but the other three are probably cool" No, they all look like, that, they all have the same enemies, and their end bosses all have the same basic design.

On top of that, I didn't feel wonder going through the world, just long spaces of...nothing happening, the most interesting things would be whiter versions of enemies I already fought, and another korok seed.
 

ByteSizeRick

Member
Oct 27, 2017
129
Primethius, all of your points are well taken (and the commercial response to the Arkane games upsets me as well). My main point is that publishers may well wish to emulate the Witcher and believe it possible, but the "secret sauce" of good writing is going to be much more difficult for them to copy than they think. Just looking at EZA's output alone, the two primary notes that come through for me on their Origins and Horizon reviews: poor or weak story. If you mean to emulate the Witcher you have to get to at least the "driving narrative" level, and I think we see publishers presently falling short of that. Understand, nothing would make me happier than to see the industry suddenly say "Hey, we need actual writers in here" (if anything, I am more narratively driven in my gaming than most), but until that happens I see them falling out of the business of Witcher-copying.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
Primethius, all of your points are well taken (and the commercial response to the Arkane games upsets me as well). My main point is that publishers may well wish to emulate the Witcher and believe it possible, but the "secret sauce" of good writing is going to be much more difficult for them to copy than they think. Just looking at EZA's output alone, the two primary notes that come through for me on their Origins and Horizon reviews: poor or weak story. If you mean to emulate the Witcher you have to get to at least the "driving narrative" level, and I think we see publishers presently falling short of that. Understand, nothing would make me happier than to see the industry suddenly say "Hey, we need actual writers in here" (if anything, I am more narratively driven in my gaming than most), but until that happens I see them falling out of the business of Witcher-copying.

I believe, partly here, that the EZA review actually is a bit against the grain of general consensus (e.g. with regards Horizons story).

But yes, I do agree with your point. Good writing is not easy to emulate and I do think Witcher will be the lead in that regard for a while.
 

Tregard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,221
My group stream suggestion went up too late so the votes wont get there for it, but I'll be floating this again next week:-

THE MOLE: Play a few different couch co-op games throughout the night (Overcooked, Lovers In A Dangerous Spacetime, Splatoon Salmon Run etc.) where the players must work together to complete an objective. Have Allies swap in and out frequently throughout the night. Before you begin, shuffle 8/9 cards together, one of which is red, the rest of which are black. The Ally who gets the red card is "The Mole", and must do everything in their power to sabotage the group throughout the night. At the end of the night, everyone decides on who they think the mole is. If the mole can successfully sabotage enough games and remain undetected, they will win, otherwise, the players who sussed them out will win. Viewers and Allies alike can all play along throughout the evening, attempting to figure out: "Who is The Mole?
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,136
My group stream suggestion went up too late so the votes wont get there for it, but I'll be floating this again next week:-

THE MOLE: Play a few different couch co-op games throughout the night (Overcooked, Lovers In A Dangerous Spacetime, Splatoon Salmon Run etc.) where the players must work together to complete an objective. Have Allies swap in and out frequently throughout the night. Before you begin, shuffle 8/9 cards together, one of which is red, the rest of which are black. The Ally who gets the red card is "The Mole", and must do everything in their power to sabotage the group throughout the night. At the end of the night, everyone decides on who they think the mole is. If the mole can successfully sabotage enough games and remain undetected, they will win, otherwise, the players who sussed them out will win. Viewers and Allies alike can all play along throughout the evening, attempting to figure out: "Who is The Mole?

That sounds honestly pretty fun. Dunno how they'd feel about it but having a metagame where viewers can engage in seems pretty cool. You have my vote if you put it up next week.
 

Deleted member 5086

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,571
My group stream suggestion went up too late so the votes wont get there for it, but I'll be floating this again next week:-

THE MOLE: Play a few different couch co-op games throughout the night (Overcooked, Lovers In A Dangerous Spacetime, Splatoon Salmon Run etc.) where the players must work together to complete an objective. Have Allies swap in and out frequently throughout the night. Before you begin, shuffle 8/9 cards together, one of which is red, the rest of which are black. The Ally who gets the red card is "The Mole", and must do everything in their power to sabotage the group throughout the night. At the end of the night, everyone decides on who they think the mole is. If the mole can successfully sabotage enough games and remain undetected, they will win, otherwise, the players who sussed them out will win. Viewers and Allies alike can all play along throughout the evening, attempting to figure out: "Who is The Mole?

That sounds like it would make a fun stream. You have my vote, too.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,039
Botw was amazing for the first 15 hours.

Then the physics playground aspects wear thin and you want a game with a story, a drive to continue doing what you're doing, and a main character you care about.

I remember the exact point I quit.

Somewhere on the map, there are these 3 or 4 rock pillars with bridges in between and drones flying about.
I got through everything, and at the end was some ok equipment.
It was at that point I realized I really didn't care anymore.
Why did I do all this? I was exploring...but why? Just for more junk that was going to break after 5 or 6 hits? Never felt like I was getting stronger. Just felt like I was collecting swords that I would never use and rather use a branch than use a good sword.
I then reformatted my switch and sold everything. Not out of spite, just by that point, "I got it". I saw what people saw in the game and after 25-30 hours, I saw everything I needed to.

Great games, does lots of things right and lots wrong.
In the end, not really for me.
 
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