These are some really good posts on the subject at hand, and I'd encourage everyone to read these over.
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Rose McGowan gets into argument with Trans Woman at Book Signing
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These are some really good posts on the subject at hand, and I'd encourage everyone to read these over.
I also said if trans women are women. Why explicitly state trans issues? By advocating against violence against women, you're advocating against violence against trans people. You can't say they are women, then say you need to fight for them because they are different.
That is why I said ignoring the comments in the past, the context is obviously important but my response was in relation to that statement.
I'm no fan of Rose McGowan by the way, I think she is a terrible advocate for the issues she has become a spokesperson for.
As an outsider, without knowing history, it looks like McGowan comes out a winner on this. That's how it will play out in the media.
What's a "dig"? It's happening. Read the thread. Or the twitter discussion. Or the media coverage. This entire scenario couldn't have been better orchestrated by the Koch brothers.
You'd think sane society would require an actual existential nuclear threat to unite people agains- oh, wait. ;(
Literally the first fucking thing the woman says is "Let's talk about what you said on RuPaul." You have to be fucking ignoring that for it to look like this woman is just bringing this up out of nowhere. Jesus.
There were a few things I didn't like that he did. "Female or Shemale" and his use of the word tranny mainly. I get why he does the latter, but it still rubs me the wrong way.
Ru Paul is very transphobic, yes. Here's an article that provides some context: http://affinitymagazine.us/2017/02/04/stop-letting-cis-drag-queens-decide-whats-transphobic/
there are no good people, only bad people who haven't been found out yet
At that point it is barely audible in the video and your average person won't know what the fuck they're talking about. It looks like deriding one victim to bring up another victim. You think your average person will take the time to understand the issue or just see a 30 second clip? Most people ARE ignorant.
I mean yeah, this thread is pretty clear proof most people are fucking ignorant.
Because the transphobic comments McGowan made were on his podcast.
It's not.
But nothing is going to get better from attacking your natural allies either, while the elephant in the room sits on us all. Channeled anger can be powerful, raw anger can be self destructive and counter productive to your aims.
I agree that Rose's history of transphobic comments are disgusting. I agree that she should take this opportunity to rethink and reevaluate how she positioned herself in the past and how she lashed back at a woman that was obviously hurt by her past comments.
With that said, Rose interjects when she is speaking and says that both of them are on the same side. The other woman keeps screaming at her. Then Rose lashes out and loses her shit.
Both are obviously hurt, and as long as people keep trying to gauge who is "more" privileged among minorities, nothing will get done. We all need to get better, but as long as we keep infighting, we will keep losing.
Rose McGowan is only one person. She can only do so much.
To yell at her and try to shame her publicly for not doing enough is incredibly immature.
People need to stop looking to actors/actresses to be their saviors and instead just be happy that they're using their platforms at all.
These are people who appear on TV and film because they're good at remembering lines and pretending to be someone else when a camera is pointed at them.
They're not better than you, they're not more important than you, and they're not necessarily smarter than you. Stop the deification and allow them to just be human.
To yell at her and try to shame her publicly for not doing enough is incredibly immature.
People need to stop looking to actors/actresses to be their saviors and instead just be happy that they're using their platforms at all.
These are people who appear on TV and film because they're good at remembering lines and pretending to be someone else when a camera is pointed at them.
They're not better than you, they're not more important than you, and they're not necessarily smarter than you. Stop the deification and allow them to just be human.
i read the excerpt from that twitter thread
she isnt wrong
trans women are women but don't have the same lived experiences as cis women
is that wrong to say? i think she made it clear that she's both not equipped to be the figurehead for trans specific issues and she obviously is more comfortable staying in her lane with cis women specific issues that trans women can indirectly benefit from
Be anything less than Mr.Rogers at all times opens you up to be ripped apart by your former allies. The lady had fair points, but starting a fight was a terrible decision
Lol @ Koch brother meddling
My problem with infighting, purity test rhetoric is that they're grossly dejected from any historical context. Every significant social movement in human history has had what you would call infighting. Every wave of feminism, the abolitionism, even the civil rights movement. Allowing for space of disagreement leads to a more nuanced, and ultimately more powerful movement, because only by initially disagreeing can we come out on the other end as better people.
Nah, trans people should "shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down" and take the scraps they get. I mean hey, at least our suicide rates aren't even higher! Cis women have it so much harder.
That sort of hostility goes nowhere. All I'm saying is picking an event promoting what is a pretty major issue in the media right now, to protest another issue optically won't play well. The video, without context, looks like McGowan smacks down a heckler, very successfully. That's it.
I'm not saying Rose McGowan did the right thing or supporting what she did in any way but it looks far from a meltdown.
And so we get to the real root of the problem.
These are the important issues of our time, and the ease with which people on every side of the prism can be manipulated by clickbaity social media is destroying progress.
Ignorance is not an excuse. It took me 30 seconds to find context before rushing to be outraged and pick a side.
More critical thought and empathy are the answer. Anything less is just going around in circles.
The bolded are just rhetorical platitudes that don't actually...mean anything. Can you relate those statements into a context that has material and real world consequences?
And also, what are natural allies? And what is the elephant in the room?
Where exactly did I pick a side?
I don't know that social media is destroying progress, I would probably argue people have more access to information more than ever now. Whether people are engaged enough to seek out that information is the issue. Most people aren't, but they weren't before social media existed either.
Yup. And in a lot of these cases its an issue of leaders excluding some portion of the group they claim to speak for(or maybe not the leaders but the majority). We will not be united if no one speaks up. Its starting divided and simply someone bringing it up makes people mad. The smaller groups need to fight to be considered in the bigger group otherwise we will just be forgotten.
In the end we grow stronger.
and yet that already seems to be the angle so many are taking with this, it's annoying
this didn't start as "you aren't doing enough for trans women", it started as "you said shitty things about trans women and let's talk about that"
That's why I'm here and people like me. To shove it in your face if you're too lazy to seek it out. But when we show it to you, you can't just pretend you didn't see it and ignore the context.
thats a cute thought that i agree with but how is a white woman yelling at another white woman to do better ANGRILY doing anything to engage and come off better intellectually
i dont even like defending white people but i dont see how this greater collective philosophy of coming to better answers applies to this specific situation
If you guys wanna see her act a fool, listen to her podcast with Rupaul. She constantly says trans women don't have the struggles of cis women, she misgenders trans women, she says she can "imagine what it's like to be a black man." Basically she continuously reaffirms that she is a run of the mill white feminist that thinks only white cis women are oppressed and all the other minorities don't get it. She even claims she's the only woman in general speaking out against what's going on. She's in it for herself and is not a good person to be the face of any progressive movement.
I didn't pretend I didn't see it. I responded in the context of a post.
McGowan said terrible comments on the issue but that video looks like she laid a smackdown on a heckler. That's it. If you want to discuss how McGowan is a terrible human being, that's cool, it wasn't what I was addressing.
I know this is the case a lot in day to day but I don't think it's the case for celebrities. They're regarded as being crazy in general.
Ah, white trans women don't face any issues. I forgot.
But she screams passionately! She must be good!
I can't speak for Tyrantll, but Id argue that the "conservative wave" that is hitting the globe which the Republican party is the most famous and prominent figure is the elephant in the room. You know why this conservative wave can keep going and getting even more stronger to the point that they will blow this planet up? Because we are divided. The conservative wave meanwhile is united and use ignorant people which most of them should actually be allies to achieve their goals and power. They "channel their anger" and get people in the public offices and places of power and then proceed to opress us. Meanwhile? We are tearing ourselves apart. This to me, at least, it's the elephant in the room.
Oh. I was worried she was getting close to white feminist territory from those excerpts I found, but she just dove into it completely
The second liberals as a whole care about transpeople on a level beyond being another vote they can use is the day I stop complaining about them. Til then? Nah.
sister how on earth did you extract that from my post
We're tearing ourselves apart because we have leaders that do it. Speaking up against them isn't the issue, its their behavior. Rose specifically has had moments where she excludes transwomen. Sure its good for ciswomen if we allow them to do their thing alone but then we're left behind because they aren't being taken to task.
Cis-females have to live in a world where powerful hetero males abuse their power over women.
Rose is fighting for that cause, it's not cool that her cause gets hijacked by a small group who are not at the end of hetero-males' desire to subordinate and control them.
Rose is fighting for that cause, it's not cool that her cause gets hijacked by a small group who are not at the end of hetero-males' desire to subordinate and control them.
While what Rose did for the movement is monumental, I do think the attention is getting to her head. There seems to be a hint of narcissism being employed here.
This movement should be about the collective and not one individual imo.
This movement should be about the collective and not one individual imo.
Black people have been saying republicans were the devil since Reagan. And it's not because we're __divided__ it's because white americans are largely okay with racism until the racism is publicly tacky, a la trump
Fitting username.
If you think transwomen and transpeople in general don't get abused by men you're a fucking moron.
Not really sure how you can call the GOP "united" and "getting even more stronger" when Trump's approvals continue to drop and Repubs are bailing on Congress left and right. They have good whips is all
if you're talking about abortion then say that. Otherwise, men are shitty and sexually abuse transwomen also. Control and abuse isn't a specifically cis issue
Hm.
Source : https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/usts/USTS-Executive-Summary-Dec17.pdf
That's a bit higher than the average for ciswomen, so I'm not sure that's a fair point to make that transwomen don't experience abuse at the hands of men.
This shit right here. Rose is a victim and deserves to be part of the movement to rid Hollywood of abuse. But Rose also is sadly transfobic and racist, so shouldn't be leading the fight or in the spotlight
I don't want to make any assumptions...but this sounds dangerously close to "trans women don't get sexually assaulted"
User banned for three days: continuing complaining about moderation in a thread after ignoring modspot to stop.
Hm. Wonder what will happen considering this is worse than anything I've said in here.
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