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Oct 27, 2017
1,345
So, like, how you do with children.
So Nintendo's games are for children? Haters were right?
The problem lies with these constant excuses when it comes to Nintendo. It's like the constant jumpimg between "It's a handheld" and "It's a home console" when discussing some terrible 3rd party technical game performance on Switch.
 

Kcannon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,663
So Nintendo's games are for children? Haters were right?
The problem lies with these constant excuses when it comes to Nintendo. It's like the constant jumpimg between "It's a handheld" and "It's a home console" when discussing some terrible 3rd party technical game performance on Switch.

Nintendo games (or at least Mario games) are for everyone, which includes children.

Mario is not Dark Souls. He's a mascot. Those games are always targeted to be enjoyed by people of all ages. That's why you've got very easy moons and difficult ones.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
1,345
Nintendo games (or at least Mario games) are for everyone, which includes children.

Mario is not Dark Souls. He's a mascot. Those games are always targeted to be enjoyed by people of all ages.
Yet they are reviewed with the industry standards in mind. Which means that they critically do not compete with Dora the Explorer and other E rated games but The Witchers and Bloodborne of the world. Problems shouldn't be slept under the rug because "the games are for everyone".
 

chezzymann

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,042
It's the perfect solution to making the game scale for different skill levels. Plentiful easy moons means anybody can see the main content but the best stuff is saved for the hardcore player.
Not really. Almost all the moons are easy. The harder to find pipes and doors usually just lead to 1 minute long half baked platforming levels that would be 1/3 of a level in 3D world (and those levels were already short and somewhat easy). Almost all of the platforming ideas in the game arent fully explored and stop right when theyre about to hit their stride.
 

Kcannon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,663
Yet they are reviewed with the industry standards in mind. Which means that they critically do not compete with Dora the Explorer and other E rated games but The Witchers and Bloodborne of the world. Problems shouldn't be slept under the rug because "the games are for everyone".

I do not understand your argument. What the hell?

So a game can't have 90+ Metacritic unless they're at least T-rated?

Never mind that difficult is much more likely to dock you points than add them. Accessibility is the standard, unless the game advertises its difficulty like the Souls games.
 

Kayotix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,312
Me personally, i had fun getting about 500 or so, i then kind of stopped playing.

My 4 year old son on the other hand gets SUPER excited with every moon he gets and he has a blast trying to get them. He has around 390 atm and myself and my wife have only really helped him on boss fights and the really tough ones that he gets frustrated with. He has beat the game and still plays it every day for 30 mins a day or so to get more moons.

Cant wait for the sequel though :)
 

Slam Tilt

Member
Jan 16, 2018
5,585
Yet they are reviewed with the industry standards in mind. Which means that they critically do not compete with Dora the Explorer and other E rated games but The Witchers and Bloodborne of the world.
From where I am sitting, it seems that all of these titles DO compete with each other -- as interactive entertainment fighting for consumers' time and money and attention. If the next Dora game turns out to be a truly engaging experience for players of all ages, then I sure hope it takes mindshare away from other games regardless of their genre or rating.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,085
I love the game, but yeah, this is something that needs to be improved.

I have to replay Jak & Daxter. Haven't played it since it came out.
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,097
Honest truth, Purple Coins were a more fun collectible:

- Obtained primarily through world exploration and no really "Gimmicky" style ones that are frustrating like the Volleyball or Face Maps.
- Unlocks cool outfits and souvenirs for your Odyssey ship, you can even pick and chose the order you get each item.
- All available out of the gate as well, no having to backtrack again due to weird moon rock thing.
 
Oct 30, 2017
672
Not really. Almost all the moons are easy. The harder to find pipes and doors usually just lead to 1 minute long half baked platforming levels that would be 1/3 of a level in 3D world (and those levels were already short and somewhat easy). Almost all of the platforming ideas in the game arent fully explored and stop right when theyre about to hit their stride.
This is the truth. There where so many awesome ideas in the game but they were not expanded upon. The game lacks almost any lengthy platforming and almost none of it is challenging
 

WorldofMiku

attempted ban circumvention by using an alt
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
824
But I honestly think Odyssey wants players to get to the 500 mark, do that last stage and be done with it; the game is really, really well balanced around that, so imo you kinda need that extra 200 or 300 moons to give players some choice in their objectives because tracking each and every moon down does become a chore when you only have a few left on the list.

...or. You can go to any store in the planet and buy unlimited moons that way to reach the 500 mark.

I'm surprised all of you forgot about this.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,513
This game is very easy to me but my GF was struggling a lot towards the end. I take my gaming skills for granted all the time until I watch non-gamers diddle around. Odyssey is very rewarding to these players and that isn't a bad thing.
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,577
Texas
I thought there were too many filler moons that would have been better off as red or blue coins, or some other, less valuable currency.
 

Neko_No_Naku

Member
Jan 9, 2018
306
I agree, but my main problem with the game was that it focused too much on capturing. I just want straight up 3D platforming with Marios 20+ moveset, not gimmick platforming with some captured things 1 or 2 moveset.
Mario's moveset is incredibly versatile for only 3 buttons. Also you can beat the game capturing only a handful of mandatory creatures (lightning poles and bosses).
 

unicornKnight

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,193
Athens, Greece
Some moons were unnecessary and as someone else said purple coins were more interesting in terms of exploration. But I personally liked that some were simpler and others were more challenging. I just think they tired too much to reach the 999. 700-800 would be more than enough.
I didn't like multi-moons. They could have a different category for Grand Moons.
 

KainXVIII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,283
That's why Switch needs achievement system (because chances that Nintendo will make Mario harder with harsher collect-a-thon conditions are minimal), at least you will get something =)
 

SuperYlvis

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,661
As people have already mentioned, this isn't Dark Souls. Games like Mario Odyssey are meant to be beaten by 5 year olds and 65 years olds, who have never touched a video game, along with hardcore gamers. Dark Souls are basically exclusively made for hardcore gamers.
 

pinkurocket

Member
Oct 26, 2017
746
I think it's pretty nice to have easy collectibles in order to make progress fast. It makes the 'main game' easy to get from start to end, which some players will enjoy, but it's always obvious there are many challenges and it invites the players to explore and push the stages. It also means you aren't stuck in a world for too long, making you dislike the world just because you can't get that moon you need in order to progress. I don't feel like it decreases the value if I can find a moon by walking to some sparkles on the ground and stomping, or doing some more complicated platforming in a hidden part of the stage. It's all about the journey, right.
 

Deleted member 5491

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,249
The way how you get rewarded,
the number of moon required to proceed in the story,
the extra amount of moons after the final boss and
the increasing difficulty with some moons
is just the ideal way in this type of game/level design to intriguing enough for everyone to explore and try out,
for younger or more casual players to not get stuck but also for experts to have their challenge.
 

MisterBear

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
656
Honestly I think if this game came out in early 2017, it wouldnt be that high up for a lot of peoples GOTY. It was definitely a fun aside as I played it, but it definitely didnt stick with me and I'm already over it. It just got tedious and not very fun collecting moons and the entire story/impact was so basic feeling. Still very much enjoyed it, just didnt resonate as much as I'd hope!
 

Fishsnot

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,967
Japan
There is something for old and very young alike.
Everybody can get something from it.
I found it to be a perfect balance to be honest!
My 7 year old son could get many (but not all moons) And I had fun trying to get the harder ones with him.
Love this game.
 

Conor419

Banned
Nov 26, 2017
2,320
London
64 never had this problem — remember when you had to ground pound a post to get a star? Or throw a fat old man to get a star? Or go down a slide?

64 was a true hardcore Mario game, there were no easy, meaningless stars in that game that's for sure!
 
Oct 30, 2017
8,967
That's actually a really good video.

I personally didn't mind the overabundance. In fact, I kinda liked it, because while I loved moving around as Mario, I didn't love the worlds. Like, at all. So that meant that I was able to quickly move on from one world to the next, which was good to me.

I would never ever 100% it, just like almost any other game. Funnily enough, J&D is my only 100% game and platinum. They did nail it with the Orbs.
 

DrEvil

Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,647
Canada
Steam Gardens though.



Nope. Generic surfer music. This could have been out of a 90s racing game for all I know.


Nothing in this game was 'hummable' or something you'd sing to yourself when working or whatever. Every other mario game previously has had at least two or three amazing tracks that, if you knew the game, would be able to pick out and recognize if you had heard it on the street.
 

treasureyez

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,337
Honestly I think if this game came out in early 2017, it wouldnt be that high up for a lot of peoples GOTY. It was definitely a fun aside as I played it, but it definitely didnt stick with me and I'm already over it. It just got tedious and not very fun collecting moons and the entire story/impact was so basic feeling. Still very much enjoyed it, just didnt resonate as much as I'd hope!

This is how I felt too. My girlfriend was also extremely excited for the game before it came out (I bought her her own Switch mostly for this), but she cooled on it pretty quickly after getting through it. She was definitely challenged by some of the later-game stuff, and I think both of our disappointment had to do more with the scope of the game than its difficulty. New Donk City is the only kingdom that I felt really shows the game's potential, it's just a shame every kingdom couldn't have been as fleshed out.

(The music is really good though. Memorable melodies aren't the only factor that matters!)
 

Lazrgatr

Banned
Nov 15, 2017
463
I never had much of a problem with the moons, but then again I'm not a huge fan of platformers so I was perfectly fine being able to quickly run through the story by collecting all the "lazy" ones.
 

PCPace

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,841
Alabama
I don't think it's true, as some state, that the vast majority or even a plurality of the moons are just lying around on the ground or in obvious ground pound spots to pick up. I don't think that's really true at all. I can only think of a few like that in the first couple of levels.
 

chezzymann

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,042
Nope. Generic surfer music. This could have been out of a 90s racing game for all I know.


Nothing in this game was 'hummable' or something you'd sing to yourself when working or whatever. Every other mario game previously has had at least two or three amazing tracks that, if you knew the game, would be able to pick out and recognize if you had heard it on the street.

Wut

Jump up super star and Cascade Kingdom are super memorable. Thats almost not even debateable considering how popular those songs are lol
 

ArmsofSleep

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,833
Washington DC
I would've preferred a star system (where it's sort of more difficult to get each collectible) but I think this is the only real way to do the more open world style of this game. Maybe a future game in this style could tweak it, but I don't mind running around and atleast it caused me to try different things/explore.
 

Thatguy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,207
Seattle WA
Mario's moveset is incredibly versatile for only 3 buttons. Also you can beat the game capturing only a handful of mandatory creatures (lightning poles and bosses).
Really? You can beat Bowser's level without capturing the woodpecker? Frog is required too. In any event, is not about beating a game but about playing it. Tons of moons are capture reliant. I liked the game, it's an 8 for me. I just wanted more vanilla Mario moons especially in the grey pipe levels.
 

Yukinari

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,538
The Danger Zone
I think it says a lot about Odyssey when ive seen so many people do videos or bring up how the game devalues the main collectible. I quickly realized it when going for 100%.

The game needed serious culling of moons or at least better pacing. Joseph Anderson's video is not a shining example of critique but the game really does have too much fluff.
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,364
Really? You can beat Bowser's level without capturing the woodpecker? Frog is required too. In any event, is not about beating a game but about playing it. Tons of moons are capture reliant. I liked the game, it's an 8 for me. I just wanted more vanilla Mario moons especially in the grey pipe levels.
You can skip the frogs in the early area that I think you're thinking of.

https://youtu.be/2_4AquRFwwY

edit: replaced with a better video
 

Bán

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,307
I never thought there'd be a Mario game I got bored of, but Odyssey proved me wrong. And the power moon problem is 100% of the reason why.

When you see a particular criticism of a really good game repeated again and again like this there's usually something to it.

The way I'd describe what Odyssey feels like is going on a treasure hunt where the path is set out with hidden one dollar bills. If you find a bill you're heading in the right way. When you get to the end of the hunt, you open the big ornate treasure chest, and the prize inside is... a one dollar bill. It wouldn't feel right, and Odyssey doesn't always feel right.
 
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DrEvil

Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,647
Canada
Wut

Jump up super star and Cascade Kingdom are super memorable. Thats almost not even debateable considering how popular those songs are lol


Jump up superstar is horrible and annoying, I don't need lyrics in my mario music, thanks. Considering the lyrics of the song are essentially an advertisement for the game and mario's abilities in general, it's just.. ugh.

"I'm making a switch" .. Seriously?!


Cascade Kingdom / Main theme didn't really have as much as a catchy hook to it that other titles did to make it a memorable song.


The entirety of the soundtracks for the Classic games (SMB1,2,3,SMW) are amazing, but there is nothing in odyssey that comes close to





Bomb-Omb Battlefield (Mario 64) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKtFsLyz6Zo


And thats just three songs off the top of my head, each of those games have a huge selection of amazing and memorable music.


The music in Mario games, for me at least, is just as big a part of the gameplay experience as the level design and progression is... and Odyssey failed hard in the music department, imo.
 
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Neko_No_Naku

Member
Jan 9, 2018
306
Really? You can beat Bowser's level without capturing the woodpecker? Frog is required too. In any event, is not about beating a game but about playing it. Tons of moons are capture reliant. I liked the game, it's an 8 for me. I just wanted more vanilla Mario moons especially in the grey pipe levels.
Last time I checked there were around 15 mandatory captures, beating the game with +450 moons. What I'm trying to say is that you can give challenges such as this to yourself, se how many "capture intended moons" can you get doing sick jumps. In the end, it's about how you decide to play the game.

In any case, I'm not feeling the game that much capture-based, but maybe that's because I'm constantly trying to reach ledges using jumps instead.
 

LegendofLex

Member
Nov 20, 2017
5,467
I don't know how anyone can really argue against 999 moons being too many.

I don't so much think the problem is the quantity of the Moons per se, but rather that, if you stripped away the Moons, there wouldn't be a very solid Mario game left behind. Some people have remarked that very few of the platforming segments end up amounting to even a fraction of a full level in Galaxy or the 3D Land/World games, and that's a big part of this problem.

And because the "meat" of the game is actually the collectibles, it feels half-baked, especially compared to BotW which feels very rich even if you were to completely ignore the Korok Seeds, which are its analog to the Moons.

I actually liked the Moons in Odyssey more than the Stars in Mario 64, because at least the levels in Odyssey have a kind of dynamism that's missing from 64's static polygons that makes them feel more inviting and interactive and compels me to dig deeper.
 

Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
The moons are the single worst aspect of Mario Oddysey. Straight up offensive in most cases.

That said, I do still enjoy the game quite a bit, but its nowhere near the best Mario game.
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,415
Nope. Generic surfer music. This could have been out of a 90s racing game for all I know.


Nothing in this game was 'hummable' or something you'd sing to yourself when working or whatever. Every other mario game previously has had at least two or three amazing tracks that, if you knew the game, would be able to pick out and recognize if you had heard it on the street.
Generic or not, Steam Gardens is very memorable and exactly the kind of thing I found myself humming after the fact.
 

CrunchyFrog

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,458
Someone mentioned it already but the easy moons are there to allow less skilled players to get through the game and see most of the story content. But like pretty much every mario game released in the last decade, the real game starts after the credits roll when you realize you've got a while other half of the game to complete that's way harder. If you're complaining that Odyssey lacks challenge then you're probably deliberately ignoring half the games content. This is like complaining that the tutorial level is too easy.

My one complaint with Odyssey is actually that besides the DK throwback number the rest of the soundtrack is not terribly memorable.
 

Ryouji Gunblade

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
4,151
California
I got all the moons. I understand that people don't want easy moons, but you should try to see it from a newcomer's perspective.

The later and harder to find moons are plenty challenging. Focus on the awesome content that the moons unlock. I love the later outfits.
 

Yukinari

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,538
The Danger Zone
Someone mentioned it already but the easy moons are there to allow less skilled players to get through the game and see most of the story content. But like pretty much every mario game released in the last decade, the real game starts after the credits roll when you realize you've got a while other half of the game to complete that's way harder. If you're complaining that Odyssey lacks challenge then you're probably deliberately ignoring half the games content. This is like complaining that the tutorial level is too easy.

Even the most challenging level, Darker Side, isnt up to snuff with some of the previous 3D mario end game challenges. The game is not confident of the players skill at any point. A lot of captures are painfully underused as well as his moveset. This is quite obvious when you do the koopa races or challenge rooms with a few exceptions. (That new donk city challenge with no scooter on timed platforms is hard)

And even if it was difficult, the pacing is atrocious when you only need 120 or so to beat the game. Then its 400-500 for Dark Side and Darker Side. In a game with 880 moons. 999 if you buy the rest.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,483
Someone mentioned it already but the easy moons are there to allow less skilled players to get through the game and see most of the story content. But like pretty much every mario game released in the last decade, the real game starts after the credits roll when you realize you've got a while other half of the game to complete that's way harder. If you're complaining that Odyssey lacks challenge then you're probably deliberately ignoring half the games content. This is like complaining that the tutorial level is too easy.

My one complaint with Odyssey is actually that besides the DK throwback number the rest of the soundtrack is not terribly memorable.
I don't think Odyssey's post game content constitutes anywhere near "a whole other half" of the game. It's certainly nothing compared to 3D Land (or World, I assume, but I haven't got round to playing it yet).