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The Pinball (digital and physical) ERA |OT| Full Tilt
- Thread starter Shaneus
- Start date
OP
OP
The only remotely appealing prices to me for TPA/Stern on Switch is the "upgrade" LE pack pricing which gives you two full sets of tables. I'm pretty happy with having AC/DC, Star Trek, Mustang and GB for the grand total of ~$25AUD.
Curious to see what the price will be of the main TPA will be, given that if they put all their finalised tables in the physical release it could wind up to be at least 50 or so machines (at a guess).
The prices seems high but a good pinball table could give you a hundred hours of play over time.
Consider that a game of real pinball costs $1 a credit and suddenly $5 per table isn't too bad.
Zen Pinball is also fantasy pinball and TPA tables are accurate recreations of real games, many of which have stood the test of time.
They're at 70 tables now and if they do a physical release it will only be Season 1 & 2 and we're on Season 7.
Not to be negative, but I just can't get into the Zen tables at all. They're ridiculously easy and generous, to the point where I feel like I have to intentionally try to get a ball to drain. The ramps also seem to have no pretense of reality, where the ball just travels as if on rails as soon as it gets into contact. I mean, I suppose they're fun in the way Pokemon Pinball is fun, but I always expect a Pinball Arcade-style realism when I play a Zen table and invariably end up disappointed.
Yeah, this. I've bought lots of tables in TPA and have easily gotten 10x the value back on each one. Even if I price a game at $0.25 I still come out ahead.
Intersting thing SPA did, they divided the 4 new tables by designer. Mustang & Ghostbusters are John Trudeau tables and Star Trek & AC/DC are Steve Ritchie games.
Personally, I'm more of a Ritchie guy.
Well I'll check out some of his when TPA comes if they are available I just really enjoy the ghostbusters theme. Now if it was a Star Trek tos table there'd be no hesitation. I love classic shows like get smart, all 5 trek shows, Batman 66.
Also Zen allows for a good training ground for those of us with poor skills, and some fun themes like that fantastic four one
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I just realised that, never bought any of the games physically with the exception of Williams Pinball Arcade (or whatever it was called) for PC. Shame they couldn't just include a massive amount of packs all in the one package, or at least a deal where you can buy multiple seasons for a discount.
Maybe they'll fuck up the pricing again somehow :D
I had the option to purchase both a Theater of Magic and Twilight Zone pins (both in kept up state) for good prices many years ago.
I still regret not doing it.
I eye good condition Dr. Dude pins from time to time as well. Sigh.
As a game designer, I'm jealous of good Pinball machines, honestly. The blend of mechanical and game logic / system design is masterful in a well crafted table.
I still regret not doing it.
I eye good condition Dr. Dude pins from time to time as well. Sigh.
As a game designer, I'm jealous of good Pinball machines, honestly. The blend of mechanical and game logic / system design is masterful in a well crafted table.
I'd regret it, too!
But pinball requires constant upkeep, you have to know how to fix them game, which will break and often, and find parts.
It's easy to keep the ball alive in Zen/Pinball FX but the challenge to me, which is actually pretty hard on most tables, is actually completing all the modes. Most of them are timed and making all the shots before time runs out can be really hard.
I tend to focus on "completing" a table rather than just chasing a high score. It's pretty hard! I've been stuck on the same mission point in Skyrim (the progress is persistant between games) because I KEEP FUCKING UP on the last couple shots.
I have "beaten" some tables, like South Park and Moon Knight, but a lot of the newer ones are really tough.
I think Zen's approach to table design is different than the real games, they aren't trying to take your quarters so they've shifted the focus to "beating" the game. I actually find myself draining more when I am really focused on accomplishing specific table goals because I'm taking more risks and trying to act quickly.
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OP
OP
IMO this is frequently an overestimated problem with owning pinball machines (with the exception of bespoke parts like plastics and unique mechs). When I first got my High Speed I didn't even know how to remove the lockdown bar, but soon learned and would now consider myself fairly competent with fixing a pinball machine.
People just need to not be afraid to get their hands dirty, but I guess it depends on what you want it for, whether it's solely to play or if it's to tinker with as well.
OP
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You don't have one? What the hell, man? Just pony up and buy something cheap like a High Speed. Good table to learn the ropes on, very basic, open layout and not too tricky to fix. Even if you just get a good player's table, you should find one fairly easily.
They take up a lot of space and are hard to move and I haven't settled down in anything resembling a permanenant residence.
Oh, and I gots bills right now.
But yeah, I will probably get one sooner than later but I think I'm going to put it on route after a month or so of playing it.
My dream would be to restore and put games on route then sell them for good offers like my friend does. His restorations are world-class, stripped and rebuilt a World Cup Soccer and it looked & played like it had just left the factory. It was on location for less than two weeks and then it was gone.
Totally agreed! Bad (underpowered) flippers or an unwaxed table can make pinball a very, very bad experience. I'm fortunate that I worked in an arcade for a while during college years. It was a small operation where we serviced the games ourselves, including waxing tables and replacing worn components, so I got really familiar with pinball mechanics, wiring custom harnesses and JAMMA adaptors, CRT degaussing and servicing, etc.
I think a lot of people that buy a pin underestimate the work that goes into upkeep, especially any of them with complicated mechanical parts - the Addam's Family Thing hand, and Chuckie's face in Funhouse were big headaches when they started acting up. Things like High Speed - both a good table (crazy when newly waxed!) and relatively simple mechanically - are always nice to find.
I stopped going to the actual barcade in our city even though they have great tables like Diner, Bride of Pinbot, Star Trek TNG, Elvira, etc. They just don't do a good job on the upkeep and they are always broken or play like shit.
Even something as minor as an underpowered flipper can ruin the experience because you can't make certain ramp shots, etc. I've walked away from games that I've put money into because I can't be bothered to suffer that.
Don't get me wrong, they get a ton of play and the upkeep on games that are already decades old is a challenge, but I just go to this brewery instead because Bud takes such fastidious care of his games, constantly coming in to keep on them and fixing problems asap, waxing playfields, polishing balls etc. I'm pretty sure our barcade doesn't even own table wax.
Of course, it doesn't hurt that this is Bud's line-up at the brewery:
The Addams Family Lmtd Ed.
No Good Gofers
Attack From Mars (original)
Medieval Madness (remake)
Indiana Jones The Pinball Adventure
Game of Thrones Pro
Metallica Premium
Spider-Man Vault Edition
He just sold Ghostbusters Premium and replaced it with a Theatre of Magic! Fine by me as there are other Ghostbusters in Indy but no other TOMs.
Other games he has had there in 2017 and sold:
The Getaway
Aerosmith Pro
World Cup Soccer 94
Dialed In
The Hobbit
The Wizard of Oz
I was glad to play them while I could as all of his games are among the best examples of those tables I've ever played. I wish I'd spent more time with his Dialed In, though! It was the only one I've seen outside a convention.
He just worked out a deal with another brewery on the other side of town and among the tables that are going in there are two big favs of mine, White Water & Tales of the Arabian Nights.
I have no idea how he affords it, it's just a side gig for him.
Since I feel like bragging about my city's pinball scene now I'll mention The PinVault which is an old bank vault that was converted into a pinball parlor. It's a joint collective of pin owners and it's only open twice a month to keep the lights on but it's kind of like a secret club for pinheads if you know about it. Twice a month I get to be a big nerd and play on a bunch of cool pins on Free Play.
Here's their most current line-up:
Johnny Mnemonic (my fav!)
The Shadow
Star Trek TNG
Dr. Dude
Rollergames
Embryon
Flash
Swords of Fury
Fish Tales
Dr. WHO
Gorgar
Bad Girls
They had a fantastic Dracula, a Demolition Man & a Hardbody in there all last year, too.
Here's an older picture I took:
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I was wondering where the Pinball thread was, and I don't have thread creating privileges yet, so I couldn't create it myself. Thanks.
Indy 500 and High Speed II are my favorites, love 'em and I'm glad they're both in TPA.
Indy 500 and High Speed II are my favorites, love 'em and I'm glad they're both in TPA.
Oh man, I was so stoked to discover an Indy 500 near me a week ago and it was playing well, too, until I started multiball. Then the whole machine shutoff and restarted.
Apparently that table has a reset issue that needs to be fixed but I haven't gone back to check it again.
Do suggest if anyone ever makes their way to the Jersey Shore, specifically in the Asbury Park area to go and check out The Silverball Museum. Got roughly 200 machines from the 50s to modern tables. Every time I go down there for a concert at the legendary Stone Pony I'll stop by after a few drinks and play a couple of the machines.
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Do suggest if anyone ever makes their way to the Jersey Shore, specifically in the Asbury Park area to go and check out The Silverball Museum. Got roughly 6000 machines from the 50s to modern tables. Every time I go down there for a concert at the legendary Stone Pony I'll stop by after a few drinks and play a couple of the machines.
6000-!? Typo, right?
https://pinballmap.com/dfw
Looks like there's quite a few places!
This line-up is hawt:
Cidercade - Bishop Cider
2777 Irving Blvd
Dallas, TX, 75207
214-364-7728
AC/DC (Pro) (Vault Edition) (Stern, 2017)
Aerosmith (Pro) (Stern, 2017)
Attack from Mars (Remake) (Special Edition) (Planetary, 2017)
Avatar (Stern, 2010)
Batman 66 (Premium) (Stern, 2016)
Dialed In! (LE) (Jersey Jack, 2017)
Family Guy (Stern, 2006)
Game of Thrones (Premium) (Stern, 2015)
Ghostbusters (Premium) (Stern, 2016)
Guardians of the Galaxy (LE) (Stern, 2017)
The Hobbit (LE) (Jersey Jack, 2016)
Kiss (Stern, 2015)
Lord of the Rings (Stern, 2003)
Medieval Madness (Remake) (Planetary, 2015)
Metallica (Pro) (Stern, 2013)
Monster Bash (Williams, 1998)
Shrek (Stern, 2008)
The Simpsons Pinball Party (Stern, 2003)
Spider-Man (Stern, 2007)
Star Wars (LE) (Stern, 2017)
TRON: Legacy (Stern, 2011)
Transformers (Pro) (Stern, 2011)
The Walking Dead (Pro) (Stern, 2014)
The Wizard of Oz (75th Anniversary) (Jersey Jack, 2013)
Wrestlemania (LE) (Stern, 2015)
Although Family Guy AND Shrek is pretty redundant, they're literally the same table with a different skin.
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More like major brainfart. 200 machines is what I meant to say. Edited.
That's still a ton. The biggest collection of pins in Indiana is in Fort Wayne at a brand new arcade called Wizard's World that just opened in December. That's super far from me, though, and I'd rather just go to Louisville or Chicago.
Main Street Amusements in Lafayette used to have the biggest collection, currently they have about 27. But they are way closer to Indianapolis and Dan takes great care of his machines. Plus he has a nice selection of EM's and most places don't.
A few, but they are all smaller boutique operations,
If you look at my first post under the OP I have listed all the games currently in production, with their flyers, and the various companies making them.
Been hoping Shaneus would merge the posts with the OP.
The biggest one after Jersey Jack is Spooky Pinball and their newest table, Total Nuclear Annhilation, is being called the best table of 2017 by many! Their next table, shipping later this year, is Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle.
Teaser for Alice Cooper:
I'm really excited to see how American Pinball's Houdini turns out. This is their first game.
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You guys ever heard of Pinballistik?
It's a PS3/PSN exclusive 3 table pinball game who's main feature is the ability for two players to play simultaneously against each other on two side-by-side playfields. There's solo versions of the tables, too.
I totally forgot I had it on my PS3 until now.
It's a PS3/PSN exclusive 3 table pinball game who's main feature is the ability for two players to play simultaneously against each other on two side-by-side playfields. There's solo versions of the tables, too.
I totally forgot I had it on my PS3 until now.
Pinside says the designer is Joe Balcer
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Any articles about this sudden upsurge in pinball manufacturers? Just a few years ago, people were legitimately afraid that pinball would die as Stern was basically the only group left after Williams shutdown their pinball operations after their Pinball 2000 initiative failed.
yoooooo~!!!! I had that! I may actually still have it, if I search hard enough in my parent's house.Oh wait, there was this in 1993 :)
but man oh man did I love that toy!!! got so much mileage out of it... one of the best toys ever!
I was at a local retro gaming con this past weekend and found a Pac Man pinball game for GBA... I should buy it next time I see it.
I really do want that Sega and Sonic GBA pinball game tho... I love Nights and still cannot understand why I havent played or own that game yet
Consider this:
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/nation/2017/12/26/pinball-resurgence/108921120/
There were 500 players in 50 competitions worldwide in 2006, according to the IFPA. In 2017, there were nearly 4,500 competitions and more than 55,000 players
The Stern & Jersey Jack twitter feeds are always tweeting links to articles about the resurgence of pinball across the nation. There's a new article about it every few days, from local papers to national publications.
Most of them are focused on barcades and how pinball has become a central focal point of them but there's a lot of company profiles and editorials about the industry in general.
I think what a lot of these bar arcades have comes to realize is that anyone can play video games anywhere, anytime these days, whether that's emulated classics or advanced consoles or mobile games. Outside of nostalgia most people would rather just play games on their phone. And to be sure, a lot of these old arcade games have not aged well and once the nostalgia & novelty wears off so does the appeal.
How many times can you mash through The Simpsons , really?
With pinball you have to go to the places that have pinball tables to play them and even The Pinball Arcade is a mere shadow of the experience of real pinball.
A lot of people are re-discovering pinball when they go to these places and finding something new in the old. In an age where everything is digital and ephemeral pinball's physical, kinetic, monolithic nature is fascinating.
As a result the pinball communities have been growing exponentially and thus the demand of pinball has risen, giving more start-up companies viability.
The other end of that is private collectors. They're at the core of what's driving the industry and most pinball companies are catering specifically to them. That isn't at all how the industry was run before the 2000s.
Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle, for example, will be limited to 500 units. That's a collector's run.
As a side note, I think another thing pinball has over arcade games is that they're just as fun, if not more so, on Free Play. Most arcade games get real boring real quick when you have infinite credits and no money at stake.
I do still think fighting games are best played at the arcade against warm bodies but for *most* people Street Fighter II is no more compelling than Galaga and Mortal Kombat 2 is more exciting than Third Strike.
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Digital Trends had a write up on this almost two years ago to the day from Sterns' booth at CES 2015. The basic gist that's being suggested is that Pinball machines are being looked at in the same way that vinyl records are. They had a downturn but now nostalgia and genuine newfound interest in the physical format is leading a revival of Pinball for a new generation of players.
For my money, the advent of digital remakes of classic tables also helps out since it allows people to experience Pinball's history for the most part without having to find where machines are still working. Combine that with new digital only tables with themes from popular TV and movies along with the ease of entry to play I suppose it shouldn't be as surprising as it is to some of us that a community is being rebuilt with casuals and competitive players.
True, but in my own experience I've actually gone out of my way to go to places just so I can play a real version of games I played in TPA. I can't be the only one.
Ok, here are some more licensed themes that should be pinball tables:
Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory (original movie)
Pee-Wee's Playhouse
The Matrix
Gorillaz
Ren & Stimpy
The Legend of Zelda
Monry Pyrhon's Flying Circus (Terry Gilliam aesthetic!)
Goosebumps (new interpretation of original books)
Harry Potter (it bares repeating!)
All of these benefit a lot from the new LCD displays, too (except for Goosebumps since it would ideally not be based on pre-existing adaptations). Tons of great footage that could be incorporated in clever ways. All of them have potential for really cool visual aesthetics inspired by the source material.
Examples of what I mean:
I've been really hoping Zen Studios would get a Cartoon Network deal, too. I'd love to see them do an Adventure Time & Steven Universe 2-pack.
Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory (original movie)
Pee-Wee's Playhouse
The Matrix
Gorillaz
Ren & Stimpy
The Legend of Zelda
Monry Pyrhon's Flying Circus (Terry Gilliam aesthetic!)
Goosebumps (new interpretation of original books)
Harry Potter (it bares repeating!)
All of these benefit a lot from the new LCD displays, too (except for Goosebumps since it would ideally not be based on pre-existing adaptations). Tons of great footage that could be incorporated in clever ways. All of them have potential for really cool visual aesthetics inspired by the source material.
Examples of what I mean:
I've been really hoping Zen Studios would get a Cartoon Network deal, too. I'd love to see them do an Adventure Time & Steven Universe 2-pack.
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I've half-jokingly suggested that My Little Pony should get the pinball treatment, just to appeal to a demographic beyond the "older male fortysomethings" that most tables target these days. The show has enough characters and villains for numerous objectives and wizard modes; throw in animated clips on a color LCD screen and you're set.
While more kid-targeted tables would be cool, so much of the market is male private collectors in there 40+ years and I don't know that there's a lot of Brony cross-over, lol.
But I do think Wizard of Oz fit that bill nicely.
Yeah, I know. It's a meta-issue I ponder from time-to-time, how to make pinball themes that appeal to a wider market while satisfying the home collectors that drive most of the sales.
And besides, even if you were to make an MLP pin, the Bronies would be bickering over which characters and scenarios made (and didn't make) the cut. ;-)
That's totally still possible, IMO. AC/DC, Metallica, KISS & Aerosmith were all made in just the last 5 years. Spooky's Rob Zombie game was 2016 and their Alice Cooper table will be shipping in a few months.
I could definitely see someone, if not necessarily those two companies, picking up the license.
Hell, if The Big Lebowski of all properties became a pinball as recently as 2016 then anything is possible.
Of all the musical acts I personally want to see Gorillaz because their aesthetic is so great and their animated videos have tons of potential. I also think, practically speaking, they have a much wider range of youth appeal in 2018 than any of the aforementioned bands do.
That's a kickback/ball save animation if I ever saw one.
I'd kill to see Jamie Hewlett tackle doing original art for an entire pinball table. With a full-on partnership they could maybe even create a few original animations, too.
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I hope so. Maiden's been going a lot harder into merchandising too with their mobile game and comics. They got someone specifically handling their interactive endeavors now. (and he said he would love Eddie in a fighting game) *cough* Ishmae1 *cough*
I'm gonna have to check out that Alice Cooper one if any barcades near me get it.
Honestly, barcades aren't the only places buying up pinball tables now. Anecdotally, both of the best places to play pinball in my city are just regular bars.
One has been open for years and just had a couple old arcade machines. Then early last year they sold the video games and put in a couple of pins and now they have 9, including Ghostbusters, Stern's Star Wars and now Rob Zombie.
The other place is a brewery that opened last February with no pins. Then they got a couple, got more over the year and now they have 9 of the best ever made.
My friends put two pins at the brewery where they work and they'll be putting Total Nuclear Annihilation there when it arrives in March. They also out a Pin*bot in a pizza place up the road.
Yet another brewery that was just a brewery recently added a few pins and I spoke with the owner a week ago and was told the plan is to add about 4 more soon.
There's a bowling alley/bar/restaurant chain called Punch Bowl Social in a few cities. We got one last year and they opened with a Ghostbusters and they just added Guardians of the Galaxy.
I'm seeing them in more restaurants, too. I know of a Dairy Queen near me with a couple, and a restaurant by the Indianapolis Motor Speedway just put in an Indy 500 and a Mario Andretti. The tiny BBQ place I go to has a Stern Star Trek. There's even a comic book shop with a bunch up state.
Almost all of this happened in the last year. The year before we got our first barcade. Before then my city had about 4-5 pins on location, total.
Just check PinballMap.com for your area every few weeks, you'll be surprised how often new places and games are added. If Pinball Map doesn't have your area then try Pinside's map.
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Showing my age here, but I'd love to see a pin based on "The Prisoner"
I mean c'mon escaping the island missions, a white rover ball, messing up #2's constant plans to get the info in #6's head... it's all right there.
I mean c'mon escaping the island missions, a white rover ball, messing up #2's constant plans to get the info in #6's head... it's all right there.
Heh. Noted.
I had no idea what The Prisoner was and now I know why. I'm not British, lol.
I was wondering why virtually every single new pinball machine is tied to a license. In the past, you could easily find tables that were wholly original, but not so anymore.
This Fortune article says that, for Stern, 50% of all games are exported overseas, and 70% of all domestic purchases are for collectors. For any owners of newer pinballs here, were you swayed to purchase your machine due to the quality of the machine, and the way it played, or by the face on the side art?
When I go play at an arcade, or museum, I tend to go to non-licensed machines, or ones that are lauded as playing well. Show me a, say, Transformers table, however, and I will stay away. So, Stern paid good money, and it acted as a repellent.
Are non-licensed machines infeasible in the current market?
This Fortune article says that, for Stern, 50% of all games are exported overseas, and 70% of all domestic purchases are for collectors. For any owners of newer pinballs here, were you swayed to purchase your machine due to the quality of the machine, and the way it played, or by the face on the side art?
When I go play at an arcade, or museum, I tend to go to non-licensed machines, or ones that are lauded as playing well. Show me a, say, Transformers table, however, and I will stay away. So, Stern paid good money, and it acted as a repellent.
Are non-licensed machines infeasible in the current market?
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Actually, Jersey Jack's 3rd table, Dialed In! is an unliscensed game that released last year and was designed by Pat Lawlor, who came out of retirment to make it. It's an incredible game and many people, including myself, think it's the best JJ table so far (although their new table based on Pirates of the Caribbean seems to be giving it strong contention).
It's a weird theme, too, in typical Lawlor fashion (cell phones?). A lot of people were very skeptical that it would be successful but my understanding is that it has done very well.
It's got some really neat features like a holographic projection (ala Ghostbusters), a "working" cell phone, tons of magnets, a selfie mode where the game takes pictures of you while you play and displays them on the screen, and the weirdest feature: the ability to control the flippers through an app on your own phone.
Back in 2011 a little company called Whizbang Pinball created Whoa Nellie! Big Juicy Melons. This is a conversion of Gottlieb's Continental Cafe (1957) and only 3 units were made. Then Stern bought the rights to the game and in 2015 Whoa Nellie went into production.
Whizbang Original (2011):
Stern (2015):
Interestingly, in 2016 Stern released "The Pabst Can Crusher" which is a reskin of Whoa Nellie with a Pabst Blue Ribbon license.
And I totally forgot about both of those tables until now and since they're still in production I'll add them to my list on page 1!
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The beautiful part is that you can give the game a completely incomprehensible ruleset, and it'd be justified!
Not to my knowledge.
