Always seems like a great idea to talk about the thematic points of an artistic series from watching the first episode, reading about the ending, and getting an impression from out of context opinions of other viewers!
fair enough. Though when I said listening to other people talk about it, I was also referring to summaries of the events and not just the opinions. I'm not going to claim that my opinion is absolutely correct or informed since as you said I have not watched it myself, but my overall impression based on everything I've seen and heard just paints an incredibly nihilistic picture. And honestly, that combined with the fact that I did not even remotely enjoy the first episode (I can understand why some people would though) just means it isn't worth it for me. If you disagree, I'd be more than happy to hear your take on the shows themes though
Anyone else watch this with the English dub? I started it in Japanese with subtitles, but the subtitles were awful. Like, translated from a text dump without context awful.
Always seems like a great idea to talk about the thematic points of an artistic series from watching the first episode, reading about the ending, and getting an impression from out of context opinions of other viewers!
Anyone else watch this with the English dub? I started it in Japanese with subtitles, but the subtitles were awful. Like, translated from a text dump without context awful.
Watched it all Dub.
The english voice acting is really great. I never felt that a character had a off delivery, and i honestly thought that the voices actors for Akira, Ryo and Miki did an amazing job.
fair enough. Though when I said listening to other people talk about it, I was also referring to summaries of the events and not just the opinions. I'm not going to claim that my opinion is absolutely correct or informed since as you said I have not watched it myself, but my overall impression based on everything I've seen and heard just paints an incredibly nihilistic picture. And honestly, that combined with the fact that I did not even remotely enjoy the first episode (I can understand why some people would though) just means it isn't worth it for me. If you disagree, I'd be more than happy to hear your take on the shows themes though
I mean, it's definitely a nihilistic series, there's no escaping from how Devilman at the core is about the failure of man, in an absolute sense. But at the same time, this is also by far the most "optimistic" rendition of Devilman because Yuasa is someone who has a really keen sense of human relationships and what he wants to say about society. There's a lot of hope in Crybaby that isn't in any other version of the story. The hope doesn't pan out, but it's there, and it speaks a lot about how humanity is diverse and varied, and ever in the bleakest darkness, some can hold on to hope and not give in to the abyss. It's one of the more interesting themes in the adaptation.
Anyone else watch this with the English dub? I started it in Japanese with subtitles, but the subtitles were awful. Like, translated from a text dump without context awful.
Hey, he did kinda get it right. Berserk so far still has glimmers of hope. Devilman is a tragedy, even in the literary sense of the word.
On the note of Berserk compared to this, I don't know exactly how Berserk will end, but there are a few related concepts that I'm pretty confident in with regards to how it will end (if Miura ever gets around to finishing it)
1. Guts is almost certainly going to die by the end of the series. How it'll happen, like whether it'll be part of some intentional sacrifice or just his injuries finally catching up to him I have no idea, but he'll be dead
2. Guts will have accomplished something with the events that led to his death
3. Guts will be at peace and ultimately satisfied at the end of everything.
It'll be a bittersweet ending, and almost certainly not a pure happy ending, but there will be a light at the end of everything I feel.
Devilman does not have that. I'm aware that it's not entirely negative on humanity, but from what I saw and what I know I feel like it acknowledges that humanity has it's strengths but then ultimately kind of declares them meaningless in the grand scheme of things
I mean that's fair and I could be totally off the money on how Berserk ends. I will say though that reading your previous post, your thoughts were pretty much the exact impression I already had from Devilman Crybaby. And I'm not trying to write it off or say it's bad because of this. I can absolutely understand why this type of writing and themes can appeal to a lot of people. It just does literally nothing for me personally.
The director, by his own words, intended the show's ultimate theme to be about the transformative nature of love. Just because the characters meet a tragic conclusion doesn't mean that the audience is supposed to simply take away that "oh, I guess this was pointless because everyone died", otherwise every single tragic work of fiction would just be pointless nihilism. It's a show that asks you to avoid the series' mistakes and do better by the people in your own life. Really, it's not something you're going to grasp unless you actually watch the show and see how sentimental some of the scenes in the last few episodes are.
The director, by his own words, intended the show's ultimate theme to be about the transformative nature of love. Just because the characters meet a tragic conclusion doesn't mean that the audience is supposed to simply take away that "oh, I guess this was pointless because everyone died". It's a show that asks you to avoid the series' mistakes and do better by the people in your own life. Really, it's not something you're going to grasp unless you actually watch the show and see how sentimental some of the scenes in the last few episodes are.
I mean that's fair, but I also think that as an adaption of someone else's work Yuasa doesn't really get free reign of all the thematic weight and meaning behind the show, especially since it ultimately ends in pretty much the exact same way the manga did from what I understand. And again, I'm not trying to dismiss the show or say it's not worth watching or that Berserk is better or anything like that. I'm just explaining one of the reasons I don't feel compelled to watch more and why I don't think the series is for me
I think it's a testament to this series that it can end in the way that it does, and not seem nihilistic. A list of events that happen in the plot won't give you that, there's an earnest optimism in it that resists being completely reduced to what happens to the characters, or whatever.
I mean that's fair, but I also think that as an adaption of someone else's work Yuasa doesn't really get free reign of all the thematic weight and meaning behind the show, especially since it ultimately ends in pretty much the exact same way the manga did from what I understand. And again, I'm not trying to dismiss the show or say it's not worth watching or that Berserk is better or anything like that. I'm just explaining one of the reasons I don't feel compelled to watch more and why I don't think the series is for me
You are absolutely dismissing the show by thinking you can thematically analyze something you haven't actually seen. Your opinion of the series is literally formed by what your imagination has projected it to be.
Watched it all Dub.
The english voice acting is really great. I never felt that a character had a off delivery, and i honestly thought that the voices actors for Akira, Ryo and Miki did an amazing job.
You are absolutely dismissing the show by thinking you can thematically analyze something you haven't actually seen. Your opinion of the series is literally formed by what your imagination has projected it to be.
I mean I don't doubt that there are things that I'm missing or don't understand properly.
Though honestly I can't see how anyone can argue that nihilism isn't a major component in any show that literally ends with
the end of all life, every character is ultimately left full of only regret and completely unfulfilled
I'm not trying to suggest that this is all there is to the show or that I understand it perfectly. But I don't see why you're taking such offense to the idea that I can tell after one episode that this show is not something I'd enjoy. The stuff about the endings isn't even the main reason, it's just reinforcing the idea that this isn't the type of show I actually like. Even if I didn't know anything about how the show continued I doubt I'd feel compelled to watch more
It's totally valid that you didn't like the first episode, but trying to argue that your thematic analysis of a series you literally haven't seen is the correct one really bugs me.
I would say Dub. Griffin Burns, Christina Vee and Kyle Mccarley did a great job as the main characters.
Also i remember hearing people talk about ryo japanese voice doing Really broken enligh voice acting that did not work?
It's totally valid that you didn't like the first episode, but trying to argue that your thematic analysis of a series you literally haven't seen is the correct one really bugs me.
I mean I'm not trying to argue that it's really correct, just the impression I have.
Though I am curious: As someone has seen the show, do you think that there was a conceivable way for things to have ended differently without anyone acting out of character? Like from an in universe perspective, rather than from a purely storytelling one
I don't know. I'd need to know the VA's name so I could even check this. Apparently he's Shalnark in Hunter x Hunter, but that's not the voice I'm thinking of. Maybe I'm just hitting the point where I've seen too much anime and everything is just start to loop into itself or something.
I don't know. I'd need to know the VA's name so I could even check this. Apparently he's Shalnark in Hunter x Hunter, but that's not the voice I'm thinking of. Maybe I'm just hitting the point where I've seen too much anime and everything is just start to loop into itself or something.
I mean I don't doubt that there are things that I'm missing or don't understand properly.
Though honestly I can't see how anyone can argue that nihilism isn't a major component in any show that literally ends with
the end of all life, every character is ultimately left full of only regret and completely unfulfilled
I'm not trying to suggest that this is all there is to the show or that I understand it perfectly. But I don't see why you're taking such offense to the idea that I can tell after one episode that this show is not something I'd enjoy. The stuff about the endings isn't even the main reason, it's just reinforcing the idea that this isn't the type of show I actually like. Even if I didn't know anything about how the show continued I doubt I'd feel compelled to watch more
So I watched like 10 minutes of the first episode. Is this like the Aqua Teen Hunger Force of animes? Nothing makes sense. Nothing the characters say to each other seems to follow anything. This is just completely bizarre.
I mean I'm not trying to argue that it's really correct, just the impression I have.
Though I am curious: As someone has seen the show, do you think that there was a conceivable way for things to have ended differently without anyone acting out of character? Like from an in universe perspective, rather than from a purely storytelling one
What do you mean by in universe vs storytelling? I think the show makes a clear point that love and support is what brings out the good in humanity, and tries to contrast that with those who lack it, which is what leads to the ultimate outcome. You could certainly make a story with the same themes which plays out more optimistically, if that's what you're asking, although in the end it is a show that leads to the biblical Armageddon, which probably isn't going to end well no matter what.
The funny thing is that was probably the best English I've seen in an anime but it was still terrible. You can tell he's having an incredibly hard time pronouncing words so there's not much acting going on when he speaks English, all his focus is in trying to as good as possible.
Watched it all Dub.
The english voice acting is really great. I never felt that a character had a off delivery, and i honestly thought that the voices actors for Akira, Ryo and Miki did an amazing job.
The funny thing is that was probably the best English I've seen in an anime but it was still terrible. You can tell he's having an incredibly hard time pronouncing words so there's not much acting going on when he speaks English, all his focus is in trying to as good as possible.
I feel like I'm the only one who didn't have much of a problem with his English because it felt realistic? Reminded me of talking with some international students or other non-native English speakers who don't have strong English skills.
Ryo's Japan VA's english pronunciations are spoken fine, it's just how it is spoken. He speaks like a computer would (like Ellen McLain's "Combine Overwatch" AI for Half Life 2, which was like a computerized PA system). I mean, I get that Ryo is supposed to be cold-blooded emotionless in this version, but a computer is a bit too far.
It's decent so far but I'm having a hard time really connecting to any characters so far.
I don't really get what the relationship is between the main character and the blonde dude. I dunno, seems like there's barely any characterization right now.
This is kinda my big issue. From episode one Ryo shows himself to be garbage and Akira just keeps associating with him because...???
The show was compelling enough to make me finish it, and it was a pretty wild (mostly harrowing) ride, but ultimately I'm not sure I'm enamored with it as much as most people seem to be. I also found it frustrating how it can look so goddamn cool at times but also look janky af in other instances.
I think part of the problem with the Ryo and Akira relationship in this adaptation is how we, as the viewer, are supposed to accept them as friends, when we see little evidence of such, especially at the beginning. Which is why to me it comes off as "Codependency" to me (obviously in the most negative possible terms), especially on Akira's part at the start, as someone who is very weak and needs to lean on Ryo to support himself, this despite Ryo having no virtuous or likable aspects to his persona at all (the only flashback we see is him being a dick about the dead cat).
So to us as a viewer, it's hard to understand why Akira is hanging around this psycho at all, and especially why he keeps doing so after Ryo goes all apeshit in Episode 1 at the Sabbath. Though I suppose one could maybe make the argument that Akira subconsciously blocked out the Sabbath memories when he merged with Amon and became Devilman. It would also make sense as to why he pretty much ignored that horror and didn't become his Crybaby self after the fact.
Even so, it's nevertheless very hard to buy or understand the relationship between the two characters in this adaptation. Ryo taking care of Akira also comes off as an owner taking care of a pet more than a person, though that makes sense given who Ryo is. But I understand why many would look and just not understand the dynamics between the two characters here. I think if we were shown more flashbacks
like the ones in Chapter 10
earlier then that might have helped things a bit. But I assume that would have undermined part of the mystery.
On the note of Berserk compared to this, I don't know exactly how Berserk will end, but there are a few related concepts that I'm pretty confident in with regards to how it will end (if Miura ever gets around to finishing it)
1. Guts is almost certainly going to die by the end of the series. How it'll happen, like whether it'll be part of some intentional sacrifice or just his injuries finally catching up to him I have no idea, but he'll be dead
2. Guts will have accomplished something with the events that led to his death
3. Guts will be at peace and ultimately satisfied at the end of everything.
It'll be a bittersweet ending, and almost certainly not a pure happy ending, but there will be a light at the end of everything I feel.
Devilman does not have that. I'm aware that it's not entirely negative on humanity, but from what I saw and what I know I feel like it acknowledges that humanity has it's strengths but then ultimately kind of declares them meaningless in the grand scheme of things
You should really just watch the whole series. Also comparing Berserk with Devilman? What? Devilman is something you don't read summaries of or watch a few clips or read forums posts made by others.
Very good friend of mine watched half of episode 1 the same day I binged the whole series and I told him how awesome it was and he just said "nyaa..." and I just forced him to watch it further and suddenly his whole opinion changed. Episode 9 also wrecked him. :'(
I'll have you know that Claymore appeals to my fetish set and I own it on blu ray. I do at some point need to finish reading the manga though. Phantom Miria is bae.
If you think your head is done in now then wait till you finish the show.
I'll have you know that Claymore appeals to my fetish set and I own it on blu ray. I do at some point need to finish reading the manga though. Phantom Miria is bae.
Deneva? I forgot her other friends name for some reason. It's been a bit since I read/watched it. I hate the anime original ending though, but I love the stuff that took place afterwards. I find it funny that Clare was just running around Mega Manning other peoples abilities. The art...it's not best to read this after Berserk, but the art is decent enough. If I remember right I like Riful's monster design a lot and yeah it does have some pretty good monster design. I added to box set to my wish list so at some point in time I'll have the manga sets.
Is there a more depressing ending in the history of Anime?
No matter what Akira did, his beliefs and values were utterly crushed. He couldn't protect humanity, much less the people he loved, he couldn't beat the big bad, Earth was destroyed, and Violence Jack looks like the shittiest resurrection job ever. No happiness, no hope, humans are shit, God is dead, and Satan is...sad, I guess.
I never though I'd see an ending that made End of Evangelion hopeful by comparison.
Ryo's Japan VA's english pronunciations are spoken fine, it's just how it is spoken. He speaks like a computer would (like Ellen McLain's "Combine Overwatch" AI for Half Life 2, which was like a computerized PA system). I mean, I get that Ryo is supposed to be cold-blooded emotionless in this version, but a computer is a bit too far.
I feel like his pronunciation was pretty fantastic -- which puts it head and shoulders above almost any other time prolonged english comes up in an anime -- but his acting method was to just shout out the lines without emphasizing any single word over the others.
It worked well enough, and didn't completely break my immersion like this:
No one knows for sure. It seems to be left up to interpretation that
either Miko killed him, or someone/something else did during the Sabbath. Either way she seems to keep his dead body and his glasses, which of course leads to one of the tragic circumstances of Episode 9
This show speaks my language; it checkmarked all my favorite things. It was just the rejuvenation through darksynth orgy and blood sacrifice I needed to start the year. I had a fucking blast with it. The soundtrack is on repeat at work and in the truck.
Devilman doesn't necessarily have to end in tragedy. Devilman '72 actually had a happy ending and Devilman Lady's anime had a surprisingly hopeful ending. I believe Amon: the Apocalypse of Devilman also had a good ending with Akira actually winning.
Devilman doesn't necessarily have to end in tragedy. Devilman '72 actually had a happy ending and Devilman Lady's anime had a surprisingly hopeful ending. I believe Amon: the Apocalypse of Devilman also had a good ending with Akira actually winning.
If you want to honour the tone of the original Devilman it's going to have a depressing ending. To have it go in some other direction wouldn't really be faithful to the soul of the original. It is my understanding that Go Nagai was displeased with the ending of the original TV series.
Incidentally, I'd struggle to describe the ending of Amon as positive considering who is left alive by the conclusion.
