TransEra |ERA1| We're People, Okay?

Robin · Jan 3, 2018

Ketkat said:
I'm 3 - 4 years into it, which makes me feel like I should definitely have all of this sorted out by now. Just going off the picture you posted on this page, I'd say you pass. But even if you feel you don't, was presenting what pushed you into making it seem less crushing? I'm in a pretty shit environment, so how I can present is pretty limited. The little I've been able to do just makes me feel out of place when doing it, like I just look odd, but maybe that's just me not being used to it?

I'd say so, yeah, although my general wardrobe is very "on my own terms". There are still articles of men's clothing I wear to this day, like it's pretty normal for me to wear men's hoodies over dresses, or men's t-shirts torn to be more flattering and denim shorts.

This photo is ancient, but when you see my full body it's pretty apparent with how tall I am, etc that there are elements to my physique that make it rather impossible to fully pass.

It was uncomfy as heck for awhile but the more I exposed myself to other LGBT, found other people like myself who actually found me attractive (!!!), that helped a lot. I wouldn't have gotten to that point if I didn't present in public. There are definitely other ways to come to peace with it I think, and I realize how difficult it probably is if you're in a bad location, but that was my personal experience I guess. Maybe there are support groups you can join to get more outside experience?

Edit: yeah also finding a good hairdresser is essential and youtube makeup channels are essentiallll

Blairbat · Jan 3, 2018

Kaywee said:
I was in a similar boat and was on HRT for 3 years and didn't see many changes. It wasn't till I switched up my meds and went on Lupron that I actually started to really see significant changes. Lupron lowered my T to near zero, since I always had higher levels (180-240) and that made all the difference for me. Don't forget that even cis women have male traits as well and the trick is learning to balance out yours with the rights styes and cosmetics as Robin also pointed out. Confidence plays a big role too and you have to own yourself.

I know a few trans women that match the traits you say you have and pass more often than not due to the things I mentioned above. Maybe you could ask some of the more make up savy women in here for tips or hair styles.

I myself am in a very similar situation to yours. My testosterone levels would not go down to a desirable level. I spent the entire year increasing spiro by a little, and then taking a blood test the next month, over and over again.

Max spiro couldn't get the job done unfortunately. I just got on lupron last month, and I finally started to see more changes.

Body passes, but face is androgynistic, as I have been identified as male from one person, and female from another, which is annoying.

I am pretty sure being androgynous is caused by being on low estradiol (2 MG) which is what I have been on for awhile until now.

Anyways, just thought I'd share my own experience.

Blairbat · Jan 3, 2018

I noticed that a lot of trans Women have body issues, which is quite saddening.

Look, being 6'0, or more isn't masculine. When I am at the mall, I have seen plenty of Women who are way taller then me ( I am 5'7) and no one questions their gender, at all. There are models who are that tall as well, and no one judges them.

Having broad shoulders isnt bad either. There is also a lot of Women who do in fact have 20 inch shoulders and again, no one has told them they were masculine. The only people who care are some men who have unrealistic expectations when it comes to Women's body's.

This is a mans world remember? To them, a perfect Woman is a Barbie doll, which is ridiculous. Don't get hung up when you see a perfect model on an advertisement board, or on tv, a cartoon, or an anime, as it is unrealistic. Not all Women are the same, and they are not "perfect" but in the end they are still Women.

Learn to love yourself because if you don't, you will fall into a deep dark place that you may never be able to get out of.

Geirskogul · Jan 3, 2018

Tic Tac said:
I noticed that a lot of trans Women have body issues, which is quite saddening.

Look, being 6'0, or more isn't masculine. When I am at the mall, I have seen plenty of Women who are way taller then me ( I am 5'7) and no one questions their gender, at all.

My 12 year old sister is the same height I am, and she is expected to be 6'0 when she is done growing. No one in my family thought it was bad or masculine, and in fact, no one has said anything negative about it.

Having broad shoulders isnt bad either. There is also a lot of Women who do in fact have 20 inch shoulders and again, no one has told them they were masculine. The only people who care are some men who have unrealistic expectations when it comes to Women's body's.

This is a mans world remember? To them, a perfect Woman is a Barbie doll, which is ridiculous. Don't get hung up when you see a perfect model on an advertisement board, or on tv, a cartoon, or an anime, as it is unrealistic. Not all Women are the same, and they are not "perfect" but in the end they are still Women.

Learn to love yourself because if you don't, you will fall into a deep dark place that you may never be able to get out of.

I'm not going to respond to this in full because it misses the point entirely. All I will say is that there is a huge difference between passing and being conventionally attractive, and when a trans woman discusses her difficulties with passing, its not because they don't have a perfect model body, its because their body reads male, which is very, very different from simply being unattractive.

Blairbat · Jan 3, 2018

Geirskogul said:
I'm not going to respond to this in full because it misses the point entirely. All I will say is that there is a huge difference between passing and being conventionally attractive, and when a trans woman discusses her difficulties with passing, its not because they don't have a perfect model body, its because their body reads male, which is very, very different from simply being unattractive.

Well, I was just trying to be helpful I guess. I was thinking about it today, as I noticed that some people do not like certain part of themselves, so I thought maybe I can say something helpful.

I am sorry.

Ketkat · Jan 4, 2018

Tic Tac said:
I noticed that a lot of trans Women have body issues, which is quite saddening.

Look, being 6'0, or more isn't masculine. When I am at the mall, I have seen plenty of Women who are way taller then me ( I am 5'7) and no one questions their gender, at all. There are models who are that tall as well, and no one judges them.

Having broad shoulders isnt bad either. There is also a lot of Women who do in fact have 20 inch shoulders and again, no one has told them they were masculine. The only people who care are some men who have unrealistic expectations when it comes to Women's body's.

This is a mans world remember? To them, a perfect Woman is a Barbie doll, which is ridiculous. Don't get hung up when you see a perfect model on an advertisement board, or on tv, a cartoon, or an anime, as it is unrealistic. Not all Women are the same, and they are not "perfect" but in the end they are still Women.

Learn to love yourself because if you don't, you will fall into a deep dark place that you may never be able to get out of.

I know, I just feel like the combination of all of them scream guy, while most women only have 1 or 2 of them. Its difficult to work on moving past it when there's not much I can do besides ask for advice online. But I will get my levels checked again just to be sure.

Blairbat · Jan 4, 2018

Ketkat said:
I know, I just feel like the combination of all of them scream guy, while most women only have 1 or 2 of them. Its difficult to work on moving past it when there's not much I can do besides ask for advice online. But I will get my levels checked again just to be sure.

I know, and it sucks to feel like you can't pass. Being transgender itself sucks, but there is nothing we can do about the things that can't be changed.

The best thing any trans woman or man could do is to focus on what they can change. The face can be changed with Surgry, or from just being on HRT for example.

The changes HRT will give is female, meaning you will have what men don't, such as soft skin, and so on. I think that is something to be happy about, even if it is subtle.

I guess what I am trying to say, is that you should accept what you can't change, and focus on what you can.

I would like to also point out that there are Women out there with a lot of "masculine" features. Yeah, some Women are 6'1 with 20 inch shoulders. A lot of them are athletic swimmers, or models, but in the end they are Women, and no one questions their gender.

I feel like like the shoulders, height, and face are the 3 biggest things trans Women are bothered by the most. So, if you have those features, then I hope this post can help show you that those features don't have to be bad.

I don't know if this post will help, but all I can do is hope that it does in some positive way.

Etain · Jan 4, 2018

I'd like to thank you for those words Tic Tac.

Xan · Jan 6, 2018

Started voice therapy yesterday. My voice is one of the things that bugs me the most, so I'm hoping I'll be able to make some progress. The speech therapists seemed pretty optimistic that my voice was manipulable, at least.

The first consultation I had was at the local hospital, but since insurance almost never covers trans voice therapy, the doctor recommended I go to a student clinic, which is significantly cheaper. There seems to be very little difference, other than the fact that there's a student sitting in on the sessions.

Platy · Jan 6, 2018

...size of head?
Is it too big ? too small ? What this have anything to do with passing ?

Geirskogul · Jan 6, 2018

Platy said:
...size of head?
Is it too big ? too small ? What this have anything to do with passing ?

Men on average have much larger skulls than women.

Robin · Jan 6, 2018

Xan said:
Started voice therapy yesterday. My voice is one of the things that bugs me the most, so I'm hoping I'll be able to make some progress. The speech therapists seemed pretty optimistic that my voice was manipulable, at least.

The first consultation I had was at the local hospital, but since insurance almost never covers trans voice therapy, the doctor recommended I go to a student clinic, which is significantly cheaper. There seems to be very little difference, other than the fact that there's a student sitting in on the sessions.

Nice! I actually haven't taken any steps to change my voice and reaaaally should get on it. For some reason I have trouble jumping that hurdle. I don't have any anxiety about expressing my self femininely where I want to, but something about manipulating my voice makes me feel like a fraud, it's something I need to get over emotionally I think.

Platy · Jan 7, 2018

Geirskogul said:
Men on average have much larger skulls than women.

LOL

The difference is minimal in adults ... like nobody notices that stuff.

Also, people have to understand that you don't need to focus on the average. Because we are not average anyways =P
Averages are boring.
Last SHIELD episode had a very tall woman ... when I googled I discovered that she is trans .. and also she is a model.
And she spend more than 10 years basically stealth.
So yeah

Etain · Jan 7, 2018

You talk about big heads, and I can't help but think of Seinfeld.

Big foreheads are a worry though.

Robin · Jan 7, 2018

Platy said:
LOL

The difference is minimal in adults ... like nobody notices that stuff.

Also, people have to understand that you don't need to focus on the average. Because we are not average anyways =P
Averages are boring.
Last SHIELD episode had a very tall woman ... when I googled I discovered that she is trans .. and also she is a model.
And she spend more than 10 years basically stealth.
So yeah

Eusis said:
You talk about big heads, and I can't help but think of Seinfeld.

Big foreheads are a worry though.

I mean cis people fret about their looks too. I think we post about these things because it's cathartic to express our doubts and fears, problematic or no. Also people get way too bent out of shape about the forehead thing, bangs girls, bangs.

Ketkat · Jan 7, 2018

Platy said:
LOL

The difference is minimal in adults ... like nobody notices that stuff.

Also, people have to understand that you don't need to focus on the average. Because we are not average anyways =P
Averages are boring.
Last SHIELD episode had a very tall woman ... when I googled I discovered that she is trans .. and also she is a model.
And she spend more than 10 years basically stealth.
So yeah

Its actually a pretty big difference between men and women when it comes to head size and shape. And its most pronounced in adults.

Xan · Jan 7, 2018

It seems pretty well established that dysphoria can suddenly get a bit worse once you're a little way into transitioning, because you're no longer dealing with hypotheticals; you're encountering real setbacks and things you can't change. And it sucks - I don't pass remotely right now, and at this point it's hard to tell how much of it is due to stuff I can change versus stuff that I can't.

I think it's important to remember that we're all built differently, and while any one of us is going to have at least a few disadvantages, the chances are that we have some advantages too. For instance, I might get depressed about the fact that I have dark, highly visible body hair, extremely dry skin that reacts badly to a lot of makeup, a weird body shape that rules out a lot of outfits for me, and yes, a really big head - we're talking an outlier even among men. Some of those can be mitigated, but all of them feel like fairly solid barriers between me and what I want. And so, I try to focus on the advantages I have. I have a small forehead, and I got on hormones before any hair loss (I was damn lucky, as my younger brother is already going bald). I don't have a prominent Adam's apple. My facial structure is, if not feminine, at least androgynous. Focusing on these things, and the areas where change is most immediately practical, is important. A transition is a huge, long-lasting, multi-faceted puzzle, and you can't solve every aspect of it at once.

There's a trans/genderfluid Let's Player that I follow, who is currently unable to transition due to her living situation. She was asked about how she deals with dysphoria recently, and she said (and I'm paraphrasing) "Focus on things you can change now. Everything that feels out of reach is for the future." I think that's really solid advice.

Geirskogul · Jan 8, 2018

I guess the issue I have with that is too often the barriers to passing are things that cannot be changed, and barring some miraculous medical advancement wrt full body transplants happening in our lifetimes, won't be able to be changed in the future either. When you can't pass and never will, you're left with some really shitty options and it's very understandable and rational why many would rather choose to not deal with that sort of life and end it instead.

Ketkat said:
Its actually a pretty big difference between men and women when it comes to head size and shape. And its most pronounced in adults.

Yep, and in addition to the overall larger size, male skulls are typically much longer as well due to a longer midface. It's a very striking difference that gets a lot of people clocked, and it cannot be changed by any kind of cosmetic surgery.

Boddy · Jan 10, 2018

My weekend went pretty well.
I went shopping on friday and got some cute clothes.
Saturday was the day I presented as female for the first time to my friends and it went pretty well.
Only one of them ask a pretty stupid question.
I even made a photo, mostly to ask for advice and to come up with a roadmap for the future. Here it is:

As you can see, I still have a long way to go, but I think this is something I can work with.
I really need to step up my game with the make up, this just isn't good enough.
My eye browns are also a big issure, but I'm not fully out yet, so I'm not sure what to do about that.
Still not sure what I should do with my hair and I not happy about my hands at all.
I will give fingerless gloves at shot, but I have the suspicion that they will only make it worse. Maybe a darker
Bracelet could do the trick.

At least I'm relatively secure in my fashion sense, but I feel like this outfit is missing another accessoire. Maybe a tin belt over the shirt?
Sadly my boosts are not on the picture, which are the best part of my outfit.
Right I don't own any handbacks and I really need to fix that.

MusclesAreGirly · Jan 10, 2018

Geirskogul said:
bone structure

I hope that we can all live to a time where there is somehow a such thing as "bone feminization surgery". Or bone masculinization surgery, for those who want more masculine bones.

I can't stand that this is something I have no power over. I want to be more petite and have no choice in the matter. I'm not sure that I totally agree that bone structure %95 passing. I think that you can be big and broad and still pass as a woman. There are big and broad cis women. But it's not the kind of woman I want to be at the very least.

It kind of feels like I'm just waiting for the future all the time and having to learn patience. A brighter future.

Geirskogul said:
There's also general escapism things you can do to try and distract yourself

I feel like this maybe can explain at least one small portion of why I'm so invested in escapism. Things like social media, forums, video games, anime, manga, cartoons. It takes me away from everything I don't like about reality.
People have told me for a long time that escapism is unhealthy, including at this community(or, well, the old forum, at least). But I would rather be escaping and distracted and happy than having gender dysphoria or being totally alienated by reality in some way.

It still really stinks to feel like you're settling. That you're playing a waiting game, and falling into vices when you're not. But it's better to feel good than bad. Escapism and passion for hobbies has certainly been a coping mechanism in life, for me. A raison d'etre, even, in some cases.

Anyway,
Ketkat, I wish you all the best with coping. I wish I had more and better things to add. I'll tell you what I tell myself. To keep trying, not give up hope or happiness, and that the future is bright. That there will always be something around the corner to be happier with my own body if I only keep trying and keep hoping. The future is bright and it is only going to get brighter. There's always a path forward, as long as you don't give up, as long as you still live. That's what I keep telling myself, at least.

I wish I had something better, more useful, more comforting, more understanding of your situation, to say. I think I could have done better. But I wish you happiness and coping. I guess I'm just saying empty platitudes, sorry.

exhume · Jan 11, 2018

Hey all, I posted back on page 2 and wanted to thank everyone who took the time to reply to me. Sorry it's taken me so long, work and life have been crazy and exhausting.

Robin said:
Hey there! Thanks for sharing! You're in the right place, ;) The only person who can tell you what your gender identity is, is yourself. That being said: if you're having these kinds of questions, most often the answer is that you probably are. A lot of people who find themselves questioning these sorts of identity issues feel like there's an invisible bar to transness, but if you decide you are transgender / have a non-binary gender, you are. You don't need to prove yourself to anyone. From there, you can decide if you feel transition is for you or not, some bi-gender / genderqueer people decide to start HRT and seek medical ways for their bodies to feel more comfortable to them, others do not. You may decide you want to come out, or you might not. These decisions are yours to make, and you can tackle them at whatever pace feels most comfortable to you, you know your own situation better than anyone else, and we're happy to talk you through whatever things you may be feeling. Also, you're always welcome to post here regardless of where this questioning takes you. <3

Llyrwenne said:
Heya, this is the right place indeed. Thanks for sharing! ^w^
Feel free to stick around and share and ask whatever you want whenever you feel like it! Some of the feelings you describe are similar to those I went through when I was trying to figure myself out. I don't have much to add as Robin already said everything I was going to say but better. x3
This is incredibly important advice and something I struggled with a lot while I was figuring myself out and even for a while after I was certain of my own 'transness'. You don't need to prove yourself to anyone, only you can truly tell who you are inside. Remember that, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Thanks so much, both of you!! I really do feel like a fake sometimes. You know the saying "fake it 'til you make it"? That's been my whole life so far and now I'm not even sure who the real me is XD

Platy said:
Kinda unrelated, but I never understood this idea that a thin body is more androgynous than a fat one. the more fat the more equal the fat distribution is =P
very young, very fat, very muscular and very old are the most androgynous a human can be xD

Don't let society expectations of what a woman must be and a man must be makes you decide what you are.
Not fitting in the roles of women and still being cis or trans is common.
The truth is inside you, go seek it =O

Haha, you're right of course, but it would be pretty rad to never have to wear a bra again :D

maritroniuity said:
exhume Take all the time you need to figure everything out and you have us in the thread if you need to talk or vent.

Thank you!! Actually, I do want to vent a bit, haha!
When I'm tired or stressed out the masculine 'real me'* tends to come out, because it takes so much energy to put on my feminine persona. They're two sides of the same coin I guess, but because my job is very client-oriented and I'm passing as female and dealing with a 90% female client base, I feel like I have to work extra hard to be nice and sweet and attentive and to make sure my hair and makeup are perfect every day. Then I get run down, and...

...my male side comes out, my voice gets deeper (my voice is naturally very deep, I used to get bullied as a kid for it so I put on a higher voice when I can) and my face kind of...slackens? (people call it 'resting bitch face' but it's actually when I just can't be arsed opening my eyes really wide and making sure I look happy). Even if I'm in a good mood, coworkers start asking if I'm sick, mates start wondering if I'm OK, etc...
It sucks because it makes me feel like if I were to transition or at least come out as queer/agender that people would tell me they like me better as a girl.

*Maybe I'm actually just a bitch, and not queer at all? Lmao. But it still concerns me that it takes such a huge amount of my energy to act 'normal', therefore 'normal' can't really be normal.
Anyway, sorry for rambling!! Thanks again to anyone who takes the time to read my nonsense posts <3

Geirskogul · Jan 11, 2018

MusclesAreGirly said:
People have told me for a long time that escapism is unhealthy, including at this community(or, well, the old forum, at least). But I would rather be escaping and distracted and happy than having gender dysphoria or being totally alienated by reality in some way.

IMO escapism is only unhealthy when it used in lieu of fixing the underlying problem. For a lot of people G.I.D is tantamount to a terminal illness, and in that case I don't view it as unhealthy at all, as there is no real remedy that can improve the underlying situation.

Ketkat · Jan 11, 2018

MusclesAreGirly said:
Anyway,
Ketkat, I wish you all the best with coping. I wish I had more and better things to add. I'll tell you what I tell myself. To keep trying, not give up hope or happiness, and that the future is bright. That there will always be something around the corner to be happier with my own body if I only keep trying and keep hoping. The future is bright and it is only going to get brighter. There's always a path forward, as long as you don't give up, as long as you still live. That's what I keep telling myself, at least.

I wish I had something better, more useful, more comforting, more understanding of your situation, to say. I think I could have done better. But I wish you happiness and coping. I guess I'm just saying empty platitudes, sorry.

I might whine here and there about how there's no real concrete ways to fix all of this for sure, but nothing any of you have said comes off as empty platitudes. I appreciate all of it.

Kaywee · Jan 12, 2018

MusclesAreGirly said:
I feel like this maybe can explain at least one small portion of why I'm so invested in escapism. Things like social media, forums, video games, anime, manga, cartoons. It takes me away from everything I don't like about reality.
People have told me for a long time that escapism is unhealthy, including at this community(or, well, the old forum, at least). But I would rather be escaping and distracted and happy than having gender dysphoria or being totally alienated by reality in some way.

It still really stinks to feel like you're settling. That you're playing a waiting game, and falling into vices when you're not. But it's better to feel good than bad. Escapism and passion for hobbies has certainly been a coping mechanism in life, for me. A raison d'etre, even, in some cases.

Escapism can be dangerous and like you I used it to cope with life before and after transition because it always felt easier to avoid or distract myself from big problems. Eventually I was running from the little problems too and I pulled myself away from the real world to the comfort of my online personae. However escapism led to isolation and prolonged isolation eventually led to a suicide attempt. I didn't think I was isolating beca use I had all sorts of friends online via forums, games and social media, but that isn't real connection. In my case, escapism was the driving factor behind my suicide attempt last year because it completely warped my perspective on life, by creating the illusion that all I had was video games and there was no place for me in the world.

I was given the gift of rehab and I learned a lot on how to unpack the b.s. in my life and my dysphoria has gone down substantially because it taught me how to be comfortable with me. What I learned from that experience is that by continually running from my problems, they only.got bigger and eventually seemed insurmountable because I was already alone from the isolation. I still have unresolved struggles like work, but the problems are at least manageable now.

If you are using escapism daily, even if it's only for a few hours, it's a problem that can compound itself easily, so I urge caution. If what I wrote in anyway resonates with you or anyone else feel free to pm me for some strategies and even some free resources that I myself have used post rehab.

Deleted member 203 · Jan 12, 2018

Hi all new here, trans (mtf) hatchling. Cross-posting this from the LGBTQ+ thread:

Any Dutch trans folks here? I just learned the waiting list for an intake with the gender clinic alone is literally over a year long. There's a clinic in Belgium that can prescribe MtF HRT but seems legit but I can't find a lot of info on total costs, amount of consultations, etc. But I aint waiting over a year just to get in the door here, this is ridiculous. Basically I'm just looking for (at least somewhat safe) ways to get HRT without having to wait anywhere from 1 to 2 years.

Geirskogul · Jan 12, 2018

Noray said:
Hi all new here, trans (mtf) hatchling. Cross-posting this from the LGBTQ+ thread:

Any Dutch trans folks here? I just learned the waiting list for an intake with the gender clinic alone is literally over a year long. There's a clinic in Belgium that can prescribe MtF HRT but seems legit but I can't find a lot of info on total costs, amount of consultations, etc. But I aint waiting over a year just to get in the door here, this is ridiculous. Basically I'm just looking for (at least somewhat safe) ways to get HRT without having to wait anywhere from 1 to 2 years.

I would recommend checking out the TransDiY subreddit, its a treasure trove of highly valuable information. There are numerous online pharmacies where you can cheaply order estradiol and cyproterone without a prescription.

Kapus · Jan 12, 2018

Hi. \o/ Never noticed this thread until now. Nice to see. This will be my new favorite thread. Hello to all my brothers and sisters! :D

I'm mtf so I sympathize with...pretty much every post I've read here, haha. I actually just came back from my therapist's appointment yesterday. We discussed my voice and what I could do to improve...I need to practice my pitch. I'm hoping to find someone to help me with some voice therapy soon.

I'm not on hormones but I'm doing my best to pass regardless. Sometimes I succeed and people mistake me for a girl, but it doesn't usually last long..I guess my face is just too masculine in the end. Maybe I'll look a little better once I get my eyebrows trimmed.

I ramble! Forgive me.

Deleted member 203 · Jan 13, 2018

Geirskogul said:
I would recommend checking out the TransDiY subreddit, its a treasure trove of highly valuable information. There are numerous online pharmacies where you can cheaply order estradiol and cyproterone without a prescription.

Thanks, I may end up going this route. I just can't put this on hold for like a year and a half now, you know? The idea of doing it without medical supervision is a little nerve-wracking but the actual risks seem pretty low.

Geirskogul · Jan 13, 2018

Noray said:
Thanks, I may end up going this route. I just can't put this on hold for like a year and a half now, you know? The idea of doing it without medical supervision is a little nerve-wracking but the actual risks seem pretty low.

DIY HRT is significantly less harmful and dangerous than living with untreated dysphoria while you wait years for the gatekeepers to let you start. Estradiol is completely harmless, and while cyproterone can be toxic to the liver at high doses, it's completely harmless at the lower dosages typically required to sufficiently block t (12.5-25 mg)

Boddy · Jan 13, 2018

Geirskogul said:
DIY HRT is significantly less harmful and dangerous than living with untreated dysphoria while you wait years for the gatekeepers to let you start. Estradiol is completely harmless, and while cyproterone can be toxic to the liver at high doses, it's completely harmless at the lower dosages typically required to sufficiently block t (12.5-25 mg)

Very tempting, but I will try to hold out and go down the normal route for several reasons, such as that my insurance should cover pretty much everything if I do.
I suppose it helps that my dysphoria isn't that bad at the moment.

Llyrwenne · Jan 13, 2018

Noray said:
Hi all new here, trans (mtf) hatchling. Cross-posting this from the LGBTQ+ thread:

Any Dutch trans folks here? I just learned the waiting list for an intake with the gender clinic alone is literally over a year long. There's a clinic in Belgium that can prescribe MtF HRT but seems legit but I can't find a lot of info on total costs, amount of consultations, etc. But I aint waiting over a year just to get in the door here, this is ridiculous. Basically I'm just looking for (at least somewhat safe) ways to get HRT without having to wait anywhere from 1 to 2 years.

Heya, Dutch trans person here. <3

I'm going to say something that is probably not what you want to hear, and something some people here will probably take some issue with, but I feel like I should say it anyway.

Get yourself on that waiting list right now. You will inevitably be referred to them at one point in the future and the waiting lists are only going to get longer because they don't have enough people to properly deal with the increase in applications.

Going into DiY HRT seems incredibly unwise to me personally. Perhaps I do not know enough about it, but fact is that hormones will have effects on your body, and using them without medical supervision is not something I would recommend, regardless of how safe it may or may not be. You will very likely end up having to go through the 'official' trajectory at the gender clinic anyway, and it will lead to potential problems there. They don't like having people come in on stuff that they don't know about and haven't been able to track or supervise and without having an idea of how it has affected their bodies.

I know it is not what you want to hear, but it is the only honest advice I can give you.

I know it is hard to accept the long waiting times - I went through them myself too - but I feel like DiY HRT just isn't a wise idea for a multitude of reasons.

During the waiting time I'd get started on laser hair removal for facial hair and start looking into other avenues that could perhaps relieve the dysphoria in little ways. That can be anything - perhaps exploring make-up or clothes if you are interested and haven't already, or just looking for support in support groups, or looking for a psychologist (which could help lay some groundwork for the diagnostic phase at the gender clinic and perhaps shorten that process there when you get to it) or someone else to talk to.

I understand the temptation, I really really do, but if you are going the DiY route, you must be open to the possibility that it might cause more trouble than it is worth in the long run.

If you feel like immediately starting DiY is the only option, then I won't (and can't) stop you, but I felt like it was worth sharing my opinion / insight on this regardless.

Deleted member 203 · Jan 13, 2018

Llyrwenne said:
Heya, Dutch trans person here. <3

I'm going to say something that is probably not what you want to hear, and something some people here will probably take some issue with, but I feel like I should say it anyway.

Get yourself on that waiting list right now. You will inevitably be referred to them at one point in the future and the waiting lists are only going to get longer because they don't have enough people to properly deal with the increase in applications.

Going into DiY HRT seems incredibly unwise to me personally. Perhaps I do not know enough about it, but fact is that hormones will have effects on your body, and using them without medical supervision is not something I would recommend, regardless of how safe it may or may not be. You will very likely end up having to go through the 'official' trajectory at the gender clinic anyway, and it will lead to potential problems there. They don't like having people come in on stuff that they don't know about and haven't been able to track or supervise and without having an idea of how it has affected their bodies.

I know it is not what you want to hear, but it is the only honest advice I can give you.

I know it is hard to accept the long waiting times - I went through them myself too - but I feel like DiY HRT just isn't a wise idea for a multitude of reasons.

During the waiting time I'd get started on laser hair removal for facial hair and start looking into other avenues that could perhaps relieve the dysphoria in little ways. That can be anything - perhaps exploring make-up or clothes if you are interested and haven't already, or just looking for support in support groups, or looking for a psychologist (which could help lay some groundwork for the diagnostic phase at the gender clinic and perhaps shorten that process there when you get to it) or someone else to talk to.

I understand the temptation, I really really do, but if you are going the DiY route, you must be open to the possibility that it might cause more trouble than it is worth in the long run.

If you feel like immediately starting DiY is the only option, then I won't (and can't) stop you, but I felt like it was worth sharing my opinion / insight on this regardless.

I'm already on the waiting list; I saw my doctor yesterday. Waiting over a year just isn't an option. I'm either going to DIY it or go to Belgium and get HRT here https://www.2passclinic.com/extra/mtf-hormones-hrt-transgender/ but I don't know if that's financially feasible. There's nothing in my life currently I wouldn't throw away in a heartbeat for just the chance of becoming the person I feel like I am.

Geirskogul · Jan 14, 2018

Llyrwenne said:
Going into DiY HRT seems incredibly unwise to me personally. Perhaps I do not know enough about it, but fact is that hormones will have effects on your body, and using them without medical supervision is not something I would recommend, regardless of how safe it may or may not be. You will very likely end up having to go through the 'official' trajectory at the gender clinic anyway, and it will lead to potential problems there. They don't like having people come in on stuff that they don't know about and haven't been able to track or supervise and without having an idea of how it has affected their bodies.

I really could not disagree more and I will simply re-iterate what I've already said: Living with untreated dysphoria is far more dangerous and harmful than any DIY HRT regiment one might do, barring something total insane like trying to cut off your genitals with a steak knife.

Boddy said:
Very tempting, but I will try to hold out and go down the normal route for several reasons, such as that my insurance should cover pretty much everything if I do.
I suppose it helps that my dysphoria isn't that bad at the moment.

Insurance isn't always cheaper. For example, my prescription co-pay for a months supply of Spiro is $25. At InHousePharmacy I can get 50 tablets of 50 mg Cyproterone for $60, which I cut in half to make 100 25mg tablets, so it comes out to under $20 for a month supply which is $5 cheaper than what I was paying for Spiro.

Noray said:
I'm already on the waiting list; I saw my doctor yesterday. Waiting over a year just isn't an option. I'm either going to DIY it or go to Belgium and get HRT here https://www.2passclinic.com/extra/mtf-hormones-hrt-transgender/ but I don't know if that's financially feasible. There's nothing in my life currently I wouldn't throw away in a heartbeat for just the chance of becoming the person I feel like I am.

I would not recommend going to Van De Ven's clinic for HRT if only because the prices are likely to be massively over-inflated. He's a plastic surgeon by trade who specializes in FFS for trans patients, and a lot of these specialists really jack-up the price to prey on the desperation of trans people (for example, a rhinoplasty from an FFS specialist is likely going to run you 150% of what it would cost from a regular plastic surgeon). That said the man is a very good surgeon and also one of the more affordable ones, so in a couple years when I get my FFS (assuming I'm still alive by then) he'd be one of my top choices.

Check out the online pharmacies, you may think they're sketchy but I assure you they're completely legitimate.

https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/
https://www.qhi.co.uk/
https://www.alldaychemist.com/

Deleted member 203 · Jan 14, 2018

Geirskogul said:
I would not recommend going to Van De Ven's clinic for HRT if only because the prices are likely to be massively over-inflated. He's a plastic surgeon by trade who specializes in FFS for trans patients, and a lot of these specialists really jack-up the price to prey on the desperation of trans people (for example, a rhinoplasty from an FFS specialist is likely going to run you 150% of what it would cost from a regular plastic surgeon). That said the man is a very good surgeon and also one of the more affordable ones, so in a couple years when I get my FFS (assuming I'm still alive by then) he'd be one of my top choices.

Check out the online pharmacies, you may think they're sketchy but I assure you they're completely legitimate.

https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/
https://www.qhi.co.uk/
https://www.alldaychemist.com/

If I went there it would be just for HRT, to be clear. I'm pretty much fine waiting on anything else, but I really don't want to wait a year and a half just to start HRT. I'm not unhappy with my face in general, stubble etc. aside. I'm just not crazy about being my own endocrinologist, and I think also when eventually I get off the waiting list here, it will be better if there are actual medical records of my hormone levels and dosages for when the hospital here takes over my treatment. Might be better for insurance purposes as well, although I'm not sure if that matters.

Geirskogul · Jan 19, 2018

A little over 2 months HRT now. Still taking small steps forward, although my depression remains worse than ever.

On the bright side my Cypro cleared customs and should be here in a week. I can't wait to get off Spiro, while the debilitating digestive issues have gotten a bit better, the constant dehydration no matter how much water I drink is a huge annoyance. I also booked a consultation for Laser Hair Removal, and I'm excited to get started on that as my facial hair is my biggest source of dysphoria after my shitty hairline.

However, the littlest things keep setting me off. I watched Your Name for the first time with some friends yesterday and while it doesn't have any trans themes, the fact that the MC magically wakes up in the body of a high school girl triggered some really negative emotions in me, because its been a fantasy of mine for like a decade. It almost ruined what was an amazing movie for me.

I'm not sure if this is 100% trans related or if some of it is just the standard quarter-life crisis a lot of people go through. I graduate college in May and I'm completely terrified of the real world. But beyond that I just have so much regret. I feel that even if my fears are overblown and transitioning turns out OK, that I've already lost the greatest and most important years of life, which makes it all pointless anyways. I know that's probably a juvenile attitude to have, but its the way I feel.

I'm seeing a new therapist next week, but I don't have high hopes. I've been to therapy in the past and it wasn't very useful outside of getting my letter to start HRT, but who knows. I'm sorry for being such a downer, but I have no one else to talk about these things except my Mom, and I hate dumping it all on her all the time.

Boddy · Jan 20, 2018

I'm a bit disappointed that nobody responed to my photo. Kind of make me feel like I'm that far away from passing that nobody wants to talk about.
In any case I already got some useful advice from reddit.

Geirskogul said:
However, the littlest things keep setting me off. I watched Your Name for the first time with some friends yesterday and while it doesn't have any trans themes, the fact that the MC magically wakes up in the body of a high school girl triggered some really negative emotions in me, because its been a fantasy of mine for like a decade. It almost ruined what was an amazing movie for me.

I'm not sure if this is 100% trans related or if some of it is just the standard quarter-life crisis a lot of people go through. I graduate college in May and I'm completely terrified of the real world. But beyond that I just have so much regret. I feel that even if my fears are overblown and transitioning turns out OK, that I've already lost the greatest and most important years of life, which makes it all pointless anyways. I know that's probably a juvenile attitude to have, but its the way I feel.

I'm seeing a new therapist next week, but I don't have high hopes. I've been to therapy in the past and it wasn't very useful outside of getting my letter to start HRT, but who knows. I'm sorry for being such a downer, but I have no one else to talk about these things except my Mom, and I hate dumping it all on her all the time.

I can relate to that and it's part of the reason why I don't feel like watching that movie.
It just hits too close to home right now. I'm already very envious of cis woman and passing trans woman, which is a new feeling for me. I was never really envious before now.

Quarter-life crisis certainly isn't exclusive to people like us, but it sure doesn't make it any better.
My best advice is to just focus on the future and present. That worked pretty well for me.
Still, I don't dare to contact my old class mates, especially now. To be fair, I was never that close to any of them.

We are in the same boat here, so I don't think anyone will get mad at you for that. Maybe slightly annoyed at worst, but that's not your problem.
Fortunately I got over my suicidal thoughts a few months before my comming out, but not before my worst phases where I was serious making plans.
I was shocked when I realsied that I haven't thought about killing myself for half a year. Can't remember the last time that hapend.

Geirskogul · Jan 20, 2018

Boddy said:
I can relate to that and it's part of the reason why I don't feel like watching that movie.

I would still really recommend watching it, negative emotions and all. Its an amazing movie that truly lives up the hype and then some. I'm not the biggest anime fan but its right up there with Millennium Actress and The Girl Who Leapt Through Time as anime films I'd recommend to anyone.

As for your pic, I think your body would do fairly well on HRT. Tbh, I'm somewhat jealous of how narrow your shoulders are. Plus you look pretty slim overall which is always a plus.

I'd focus on growing your hair out and getting laser hair removal for your beard shadow if you can afford it. If you live near any decent sized metro area there should plenty of deals on Groupon that are pretty affordable. I just snagged 10 sessions for a little over $300.

Deleted member 203 · Jan 20, 2018

Boddy said:
I'm a bit disappointed that nobody responed to my photo. Kind of make me feel like I'm that far away from passing that nobody wants to talk about.
In any case I already got some useful advice from reddit.

A few tips, if I may: get into shaving with a double edge (safety) razor for the closest possible shave. Then use primer/orange concealer/foundation to totally hide any beard shadow. And you can totally trim your eyebrows even if you aren't out. I'm only out to a few people but I trimmed the shit out of my eyebrows. Men don't notice or won't say shit 99% of the time because most men are clueless. And if anyone asks, who cares? Just tell them you felt like trimming your eyebrows. A nice arched eyebrow can really do a lot for your face overall. As for your hair I would just grow it out. It looks like it falls pretty straight, it'll probably look good. And use conditioner, that shit is great.

Boddy · Jan 20, 2018

Geirskogul said:
I would still really recommend watching it, negative emotions and all. Its an amazing movie that truly lives up the hype and then some. I'm not the biggest anime fan but its right up there with Millennium Actress and The Girl Who Leapt Through Time as anime films I'd recommend to anyone.

As for your pic, I think your body would do fairly well on HRT. Tbh, I'm somewhat jealous of how narrow your shoulders are. Plus you look pretty slim overall which is always a plus.

I'd focus on growing your hair out and getting laser hair removal for your beard shadow if you can afford it. If you live near any decent sized metro area there should plenty of deals on Groupon that are pretty affordable. I just snagged 10 sessions for a little over $300.

I will watch it eventually, but I need some more time.

Thanks! My entire family is pretty slim. My sister even recovered from 2 pregnancies relatively well.
Fouantely my hair grows pretty fast. I had a short hair cut in october, shortly before my coming-out, which was some really terrible timing.
It should have a decent length before the year is over.
I have a air removal laser, but it's not made for the face of a "man", so I will probably still pay of hair removal.
Currently I live in a small city. That could make things difficult. In the worst, I will have to until spring, since then I'm moving into a huge city.

Noray said:
A few tips, if I may: get into shaving with a double edge (safety) razor for the closest possible shave. Then use primer/orange concealer/foundation to totally hide any beard shadow. And you can totally trim your eyebrows even if you aren't out. I'm only out to a few people but I trimmed the shit out of my eyebrows. Men don't notice or won't say shit 99% of the time because most men are clueless. And if anyone asks, who cares? Just tell them you felt like trimming your eyebrows. A nice arched eyebrow can really do a lot for your face overall. As for your hair I would just grow it out. It looks like it falls pretty straight, it'll probably look good. And use conditioner, that shit is great.

These are some very useful tips. I will look into it.

Sub Boss · Jan 24, 2018

Hi
my mom thinks i want to be a woman and every now and then she sends me these God science videos talking about the risks, binary gender, boys believing to be girls,doctors damaging kids with operations, not natural mental ilness etc. Kinda like this one but i couldn't find the one she sent me

Anyways i got interested in watching other types of videos /documentaries that might show the other side of reality and struggles transpeople face everyday in life does anyone have some recommendations. :^)

Kaywee · Jan 24, 2018

Here is a link to the Katie Couric documentary called gender revolution and it was made for National Geographic I believe. The black pigeon video you linked to is littered with right wing propaganda that has no basis in fact. If the one you were shown previously was anything like that I recommend disregarding the content cause it's pure b.s.

Here is a video documentary that tackles health care issues faced by the transgendered community across parts of Canada.

I hope this helps

Geirskogul · Jan 24, 2018

I think this is it.

I started HRT knowing I would never be able to pass or socially transition, but I had hoped that maybe the mental effects would improve my baseline mood enough that I could be a somewhat functional human being, not necessarily even happy, but capable of going through most days without being a miserable wreck. But I've come to realize how foolish that really was, and am left with the same agonizing regret and despair that has plagued my waking moments for the past half decade.

My original plan was to kill myself after graduating college in May, but i don't believe that I can hold out that long anymore. I have yet to attend a single class this semester, I spend most of every day laying in bed, trying to distract myself with various fantasies and daydreams. I don't want to spend any more time on this rock. And while I feel bad about the pain I will inflict on my family, my misery is stronger than my guilt. I just don't care anymore.

Kapus · Jan 24, 2018

Geirskogul said:
I started HRT knowing I would never be able to pass or socially transition, but I had hoped that maybe the mental effects would improve my baseline mood enough that I could be a somewhat functional human being, not necessarily even happy, but capable of going through most days without being a miserable wreck. But I've come to realize how foolish that really was, and am left with the same agonizing regret and despair that has plagued my waking moments for the past half decade.

How long ago have you started hrt? Why do you think it's foolish now?

Etain · Jan 24, 2018

See if you can up the dose, in case they started you too low. I don't really have anything else to say other than the usual warnings, sorry.

Kaywee · Jan 24, 2018

Geirskogul said:
I think this is it.

I started HRT knowing I would never be able to pass or socially transition, but I had hoped that maybe the mental effects would improve my baseline mood enough that I could be a somewhat functional human being, not necessarily even happy, but capable of going through most days without being a miserable wreck. But I've come to realize how foolish that really was, and am left with the same agonizing regret and despair that has plagued my waking moments for the past half decade.

My original plan was to kill myself after graduating college in May, but i don't believe that I can hold out that long anymore. I have yet to attend a single class this semester, I spend most of every day laying in bed, trying to distract myself with various fantasies and daydreams. I don't want to spend any more time on this rock. And while I feel bad about the pain I will inflict on my family, my misery is stronger than my guilt. I just don't care anymore.

You really need to seek local help and I would suggest you check into a local hospital asap. I have walked a similar path as I imagine a fair number of trans women do, and it will get better. I implore you to seek help now before a rash decision is made, ask a roommate, friend or family member to take you to the hospital.

Boddy · Jan 25, 2018

I just got confimration for my professional retraining that will start in 2 months (or rather the preparatory course starts then).
Not sure how to say this in english, but basically it's facility that's used to difficult cases, which hopefully means that I can transtion there without too much trouble.
My plan is present as female as soon as I get there. I will probably not pass in time, but I'm already sick of hiding. Besides, it's better than having to tell everyone halfway through.

I know my family won't approve of that, but I don't really care that much. I was aware of the risk before informing them.
Waiting another 2-3 years isn't even up for debate for me.

SweetNicole · Jan 26, 2018

I've had this on the backlog for a while, but I'll be facilitating the creation of a TransERA discord over the weekend open to any transgender people on ResetEra. If you are interested, feel free to shoot me a PM. I'll probably set it up tomorrow or Saturday.

Sub Boss · Jan 26, 2018

Kaywee said:
Here is a link to the Katie Couric documentary called gender revolution and it was made for National Geographic I believe. The black pigeon video you linked to is littered with right wing propaganda that has no basis in fact. If the one you were shown previously was anything like that I recommend disregarding the content cause it's pure b.s.

Here is a video documentary that tackles health care issues faced by the transgendered community across parts of Canada.

I hope this helps

Thank you

SweetNicole · Jan 26, 2018

Okay, Discord is setup for those who want it. If you're looking for an invite, shoot me a PM. Thanks!

Xan · Jan 27, 2018

I'm very gradually building up my wardrobe with more feminine items. I've found that the more I get used to presenting as femme, the easier it is to branch out and try new stuff. For instance, my style has been mostly limited to "t-shirt plus long skirt" so far, but I'm getting more comfortable with the idea of lower necklines. Still, clothes are expensive and I'm a weird shape, so it's dependent on how affordable and available stuff is in addition to my comfort level.

Anyway, I went to the hairdressers the other day and was pleased with the results, so here's a selfie taken from a kinda weird angle.

TransEra |ERA1| We're People, Okay?

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