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DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,588
The point of that first part was more to provide an explanation as to why The Legend of Zelda is the primary subject of these types of discussions to those who seem to not understand that. I didn't intend to present that 'Link as an avatar' interpretation as the only valid interpretation. Apologies if it came off as such. Main point of the rest of the post was not that they need to handle it a specific way, but more that Nintendo's / Aonuma's comments on this have not been satisfactory in the slightest, and that they can and should do better, and that it is absolutely not hard at all for them to do better. Some of your / Morrigan 's proposals I mentioned too, and they could even improve a bunch without even having a female player character if they just had Zelda do something different than just waiting for Link to save the day for once.

If I gave the impression that I took issue with anything in your post I apologize, because I don't. I simply mentioned it because I agree with you. Nintendo has given piss poor excuses for their decisions and I just find the self insert character to be junk to begin with when it doesn't actually reflect on the game itself. When Nintendo finally dropped that crap and started to own Link as an actual character, that made me happy. Now do better in general.
 

DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,588
Think of it this way, part of what makes a character established is to know what he has done and how he reacted to events. Since Link is a different person every time, how is his character established when you first start a new game?


The idea of character design is to use visual tools to confer information on what a character is like. The problem is that, in a fighting game, a character's design should communicate what she is capable of in combat in the like. Putting a woman in a cocktail dress and heels doesn't do anything to tell us about her personality or how she fights or anything useful like that, so it'd be an example of a pretty bad character design.

Link's personality is established in the same ways every game, and it's always the same personality. Once you meet him in one game, you do not need to be reintroduced to him. You already know this guy. Only the backstory has variations.

Edit: Bah! The forum format doesn't make it apparent when you're going to double post.
 

Cid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
395
Elly from Xenogears, Miang, Aeris, Tifa, Aya Brea are great characters and really strong and very important too in their games
Also Agrias in FF Tactics
Terra of course also
And I'm missing a lot

Squaresoft has a long tradition of strong and great female design
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
The idea of character design is to use visual tools to confer information on what a character is like. The problem is that, in a fighting game, a character's design should communicate what she is capable of in combat in the like. Putting a woman in a cocktail dress and heels doesn't do anything to tell us about her personality or how she fights or anything useful like that, so it'd be an example of a pretty bad character design.

Do you consider these bad character designs?
valkenhayn-white.jpg

amane-nishiki-blazblue-story-art.jpg

latest


I'm actually not familiar with that character(I was more upset by someone calling her outfit a "prostitute costume.") But these fighting games tend to have very over the top presentation for some characters and not all of them are going to dress practically.

I'm not saying you need to like the design. Nor am I saying it's not sexualized, because it obviously is. I just don't buy, "it doesn't tell us about the character."
 

Cid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
395
Do you consider these bad character designs?
valkenhayn-white.jpg

amane-nishiki-blazblue-story-art.jpg

latest


I'm actually not familiar with that character(I was more upset by someone calling her outfit a "prostitute costume.") But these fighting games tend to have very over the top presentation for some characters and not all of them are going to dress practically.

I'm not saying you need to like the design. Nor am I saying it's not sexualized, because it obviously is. I just don't buy, "it doesn't tell us about the character."

Many, many designs are impractical
Probably most of them

Just look at boxing and mma and how real life fighters dress

Only Sagat is dressed right basically
 

Valkyr1983

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
NH, United States
This just in: If you think "attractive and provocative" female character designs are deplorable, then you're "really bigoted".



Still, you didn't answer the question: what does this add to your life that porn can't cover?

???

How's it comparable? I don't watch porn for entertainment. It's not an interactive medium like a game is

Better question is this, do you agree character designs matter? Would you be OK with every game having nothing but a plain mannequin look for every character?

I assume no. So since you care about what your characters look like, Why can't I?

It doesn't have to be a "need" , it just has to be a want.

And I have already said not every game needs a quiet or Cindy, but I like it when some games DO have them
 

NexusCell

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
855
To be honest, I prefer stylish and cool in male and female character designs compared to practical. Ryu, Ken, and Fei Long are a lot more boring to me than Dictator, Vega, Sosom, or Blanka.
 

4Tran

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,531
Do you consider these bad character designs?
I'm not an expert on visual designs, but sure, I'll give you my takes.
In terms of costume, this one doesn't do anything special. However, the design is saved by his expression and his stance. They spark of personality, and I can make some pretty good guesses about what's he's like without knowing anything about him. Good design.

I don't like this one. I can't tell anything about her from her expression or pose, and there's nothing particularly interesting about her outfit either.

This one is all over the place. Is he supposed to be some sort of butler/ninja combo? What would that even mean? Is he taking a call right now, is he attacking someone, or is he just running to give people his business card? The only thing going for this design is that it's somewhat distinctive looking, but when it's this confused, does that even matter?

I think that this collection performs the useful task of illustrating how we can read an awful lot more from the expressions and poses of male characters than we can from female ones.
 

Cid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
395
latest


Only Sagat is dressed for the occasion

It really makes no sense at all to go too deep into the practicality of fighting game clothing designs

Even the greatest of all character designs Ryu is not dressed the best way for a real fight
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
I'm not an expert on visual designs, but sure, I'll give you my takes.

In terms of costume, this one doesn't do anything special. However, the design is saved by his expression and his stance. They spark of personality, and I can make some pretty good guesses about what's he's like without knowing anything about him. Good design.


I don't like this one. I can't tell anything about her from her expression or pose, and there's nothing particularly interesting about her outfit either.


This one is all over the place. Is he supposed to be some sort of butler/ninja combo? What would that even mean? Is he taking a call right now, is he attacking someone, or is he just running to give people his business card? The only thing going for this design is that it's somewhat distinctive looking, but when it's this confused, does that even matter?

I think that this collection performs the useful task of illustrating how we can read an awful lot more from the expressions and poses of male characters than we can from female ones.

The middle one is actually a guy as well. I don't play guilty gear but from what I gather the last guy(their name is Answer) appears to be a business man.

My main point is that even with male characters, most people are going to aim for uniqueness/coolnes over practicality.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
Link's personality is established in the same ways every game, and it's always the same personality. Once you meet him in one game, you do not need to be reintroduced to him. You already know this guy. Only the backstory has variations.

Edit: Bah! The forum format doesn't make it apparent when you're going to double post.

This is not true. Wind Waker Link is very different personality-wise from other Links. Skyward Sword Link may be as well.
 

DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,588
My issue with costuming in fighting games isn't whether something is practical or not, or necessarily tells us about how a character fights or what have you. The only thing a character design in a fighting games needs to be is visually distinct. My issue is:

for male costumes you have stuff like this:

Oh, there's the Boxer. That guy looks like a Butler. There's the Ninja. That's a Karate Guy. That guy is an Evil Knight. The costumes look like things that represent professions or reflect something of a personality (dressing formally VS slovenly). There's a lot of variety there.

And for female costumes:

Characters get costumes that consist of leotards, thongs, and strips of cloth, leather or metal. They serve only one purpose. If your female fighter is a Flamenco Dancer in high heels. Fine. It's a costume that at least represents something. But a lot of these costumes are just mishmashes of whatever looks sexy, regardless of whether it makes sense for that character's theme, if they even have one other than "draw attention to boobs".
 

Cid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
395
My issue with costuming in fighting games isn't whether something is practical or not, or necessarily tells us about how a character fights or what have you. The only thing a character design in a fighting games needs to be is visually distinct. My issue is:

for male costumes you have stuff like this:

Oh, there's the Boxer. That guy looks like a Butler. There's the Ninja. That's a Karate Guy. That guy is an Evil Knight. The costumes look like things that represent professions or reflect something of a personality (dressing formally VS slovenly). There's a lot of variety there.

And for female costumes:

Characters get costumes that consist of leotards, thongs, and strips of cloth, leather or metal. They serve only one purpose. If your female fighter is a Flamenco Dancer in high heels. Fine. It's a costume that at least represents something. But a lot of these costumes are just mishmashes of whatever looks sexy, regardless of whether it makes sense for that character's theme, if they even have one other than "draw attention to boobs".

The answer is easy why this is the case
Its because men historically have had more fighting proffesions and more proffesions with distinct uniforms etc

The boxer
The kickboxer
The sumo
The ninja
The soldier
The butler
The wrestler
The bouncer
The samourai
Etc
 

DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,588
This is not true. Wind Waker Link is very different personality-wise from other Links. Skyward Sword Link may be as well.

In what way? Link's personality consists of selfless heroism and naivety. He has funny surprise reactions to things he doesn't expect. He's kind enough to run any errand you ask. Is this not his personality? Is it not universal?
 

4Tran

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,531
The middle one is actually a guy as well. I don't play guilty gear but from what I gather the last guy(their name is Answer) appears to be a business man.
It doesn't matter particularly that the middle character is also supposed to be a man. He's drawn with purely female visual cues, and suffers from the same pitfalls that plague female characters.

My main point is that even with male characters, most people are going to aim for uniqueness/coolnes over practicality.
But practicality is only one of the points of character design. It's not even the main issue that I brought up: my main point is that character designs are supposed to communicate and that a woman in a cocktail dress and heels doesn't communicate anything useful. It's also much more common for male characters, who are designed for uniqueness/coolness, to still communicate something useful through their facial expressions and poses. This tends to be true even when their costumes are boring or ugly.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
I will always maintain that Yoko Taro was just trolling with that "I like girls" answer and that the reality is a lot more profound based on the actual legit narrative justification. Even if that's just headcanon, I don't care, the way it works is perfect imo.
 

4Tran

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,531
The answer is easy why this is the case
Its because men historically have had more fighting proffesions and more proffesions with distinct uniforms etc

The boxer
The kickboxer
The sumo
The ninja
The soldier
The butler
The wrestler
Etc
That's not really the reason why male characters are more varied in fighting games and the like. The real reason is that there's a different focus in design goals when it comes to male and female characters.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
In what way? Link's personality consists of selfless heroism and naivety. He has funny surprise reactions to things he doesn't expect. He's kind enough to run any errand you ask. Is this not his personality? Is it not universal?

Hero of Winds Link is canonically very talkative whereas most other Links are more stoic and quiet. Skyward Sword Link is more of a romantic than the other ones and BOTW Link is canonically Bear Grylls.
 

HypedBeast

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,058
My issue with costuming in fighting games isn't whether something is practical or not, or necessarily tells us about how a character fights or what have you. The only thing a character design in a fighting games needs to be is visually distinct. My issue is:

for male costumes you have stuff like this:

Oh, there's the Boxer. That guy looks like a Butler. There's the Ninja. That's a Karate Guy. That guy is an Evil Knight. The costumes look like things that represent professions or reflect something of a personality (dressing formally VS slovenly). There's a lot of variety there.

And for female costumes:

Characters get costumes that consist of leotards, thongs, and strips of cloth, leather or metal. They serve only one purpose. If your female fighter is a Flamenco Dancer in high heels. Fine. It's a costume that at least represents something. But a lot of these costumes are just mishmashes of whatever looks sexy, regardless of whether it makes sense for that character's theme, if they even have one other than "draw attention to boobs".
Thats not true.
As mentioned in the fighting game thread, SNK female character designs always reflect some aspect of their personality, profession, or history, honestly just take a look in the thread.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/positive-female-character-designs-in-fighting-games.13703/
 

Cid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
395
That's not really the reason why male characters are more varied in fighting games and the like. The real reason is that there's a different focus in design goals when it comes to male and female characters.

For the men thats exactly the reason
I was just replying in regards to the examples given
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
The answer is easy why this is the case
Its because men historically have had more fighting proffesions and more proffesions with distinct uniforms etc

The boxer
The kickboxer
The sumo
The ninja
The soldier
The butler
The wrestler
Etc
Real-life female boxers, kickboxers and soldiers, to the best of my knowledge, wear outfits almost identical to their male equivalents. Women in the British army and RAF have been wearing roughly the same uniforms as their male peers for a long time. It's easier that way- part of the point of a uniform is unifying the look your personnel. That doesn't really support your point when Cammy in Street Fighter rocks up in a leotard despite female uniforms and PTA gear existing. It's done for sex appeal rather than no prior example of western female military gear existing.
 

Cid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
395
Real-life female boxers, kickboxers and soldiers, to the best of my knowledge, wear outfits almost identical to their male equivalents. Women in the British army and RAF have been wearing the same uniforms as their male peers for a very long time. That doesn't really support your point when Cammy in Street Fighter rocks up in a leotard.

Of course you have them more often and often and now you will probably see a shift also in designs as times goes by
What I just said was an objective observation about the history of fighting proffesions and uniforms
 

DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,588
The answer is easy why this is the case
Its because men historically have had more fighting proffesions and more proffesions with distinct uniforms etc
I wasn't aware Butler was a fighting profession. And this is weak on multiple levels. One, fighting games do not need to and have not limited their costumes to what people would realistically wear in a fighting tournament. Flamenco Dancer is not a fightng costume, but it would be recognizable as something rather than a random collection of strategically placed leather strips. Two, women have been in warrior positions since always and if you insist on historically accurate representations to excuse placing a female character in something other than a thong, how about Viking? Or World War 2 pilot, or current day MMA fighter or boxer or any military uniform? There is no excuse for men being dressed one way and women being dressed another, and that doesn't even preclude sexy outfits.

Thats not true.
As mentioned in the fighting game thread, SNK female character designs always reflect some aspect of their personality, profession, or history, honestly just take a look in the thread.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/positive-female-character-designs-in-fighting-games.13703/

Why is it always assumed that because positive examples exist that nullifies the point that most character designs in fighting games aren't like that. If those SNK designs were the norm for all fighting franchises and stuff like I'm talking about were the exceptions, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
 
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Cid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
395
And yes of course
There is no denial that female characters get often sexy clothing
You cant deny that
 

Murkas

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
615
Aya Brea doesnt get often mentioned but she really is a great character and I love the first Parasite Eve too

Because The 3rd Birthday and PE2 fucked her image up so bad it honestly feels like it retconned Aya's positive image from the first game which is why she's hardly mentioned.

A female cop dressed like a female cop. Wears a dress in the beginning because she's on a date at the opera (how many games have you play as a woman, going on a date with a guy. Like set in stone not create your character optional romance RPGs because I can't think of another one)

Why did you fuck her up Square :(
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
???

How's it comparable? I don't watch porn for entertainment. It's not an interactive medium like a game is

You are aware there's an entire industry of porn games, right?

Better question is this, do you agree character designs matter? Would you be OK with every game having nothing but a plain mannequin look for every character?
I assume no. So since you care about what your characters look like, Why can't I?

Let's not be disingenuous here, wanting characters to sexually excite you has nothing to do with wanting characters to be unique. Arguably the opposite.

It doesn't have to be a "need" , it just has to be a want.

We just wanted to know where this "want" comes from because it's odd to us. So far it seems to boil down to "I just want them, OK?" which is fair enough, but then people are exactly as free to want the opposite (and their reasons seem to be considerable more numerous and solid).

And I have already said not every game needs a quiet or Cindy, but I like it when some games DO have them

Problem being that it's not "some" games, otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I remember a whole write-up on the old forum about the appeal of "the tease" and its place in works outside of porn. Don't remember it all, but it was pretty enlightening.

Replace "porn" with "softcore porn" and my point still stands.

Elly from Xenogears, Miang, Aeris, Tifa, Aya Brea are great characters and really strong and very important too in their games
Also Agrias in FF Tactics
Terra of course also
And I'm missing a lot

Squaresoft has a long tradition of strong and great female design

It's really telling that every single character design you mentioned is 20 years old or more. Modern Square has only their name in common with old Square.
 

Cid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
395
I wasn't aware Butler was a fighting profession. And this is weak on multiple levels. One, fighting games do not need to and have not limited their costumes to what people would realistically wear in a fighting tournament. Flamenco Dancer is not a fightng costume, but it would be recognizable as something rather than a random collection of strategically placed leather strips. Two, women have been in warrior positions since always and if you insist on historically accurate representations to excuse placing a female character in something other than a thong, how about Viking? Or World War 2 pilot, or current day MMA fighter or boxer or any military uniform? There is no excuse for men being dressed one way and women being dressed another, and that doesn't even preclude sexy outfits.

Everything you say is almost right
Of course

I read a lot about about history and wars and yes there were and are even more now women in armies and air forces and women in fighting sports

But its also undeniable that war and fighting etc is by far still more done by men even now

And again
Yes in game designs women are absolutely more designed with sexiness in mind

I try to only objectively analyse this
 

a Question

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,218
As person who studied Box, Muah thai, MMA and Siltat (on beginner level) I would not put practicality above character identity and style. I love fighting games and even though most of Mortal Kombat X cast throw horrible jabs and punches (I mean it practically looks like a slap) asking action heavy games to be more realistic is a bit much.

I mean its ok to expect practical design from RPG or shotters but judging character design for a Fighting game especially a Hyper style Fighter for being impractical its...again a bit much.

Some design can be more complex than what we can expect.

 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Of course you have them more often and often and now you will probably see a shift also in designs as times goes by
What I just said was an objective observation about the history of fighting proffesions and uniforms
That's not objective at all. Fighting games have been around for thirty years. UK female military staff have been in uniforms for over a hundred years now in various roles. Funnily enough, it was easier to use the same (scratchy, mass produced) material in different cuts than to assign the women leotards and lingerie.

Going back further than that, female viking warriors were buried with swords, shields, armour etc.

Female warriors wearing the same kit as men is not a new thing, as that kit was designed for practicality (including cost savings as well as combat effectiveness!) first.
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
not all characters need to be 100% practical but most female characters are designed with the male gaze in mind which is insulting and alienating for many female gamers. why is this so hard to udnerstand. god.
 

DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,588
Everything you say is almost right
Of course

I read a lot about about history and wars and yes there were and are even more now women in armies and air forces and women in fighting sports

But its also undeniable that war and fighting etc is by far still more done by men even now

And again
Yes in game designs women are absolutely more designed with sexiness in mind

I try to only objectively analyse this

So other than stating trivial facts, are you saying the reason female designs differ from male designs is due to a lack of imagination/knowledge/ and possibly respect on the part of the designers? I'd agree with that.
 

Cid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
395
That's not objective at all. Fighting games have been around for thirty years. UK female military staff have been in uniforms for over a hundred years now in various roles. Funnily enough, it was easier to use the same (scratchy, mass produced) material in different cuts than to assign the women leotards and lingerie.

Going back further than that, female viking warriors were buried with swords, shields, armour etc.

Female warriors wearing the same kit as men is not a new thing, as that kit was designed for practicality (including cost savings as well as combat effectiveness!) first.

True
100%

The thing is its often about "percentages"
Like many things in live actually
And percentages make associations

Like fire fighters for example
Of course there are women fire fighters
But people when you say the word fire fighter, most people, think of a man

Also when saying boxer, kick boxer, wrestler etc

Thats it basically

Of course you can say now
Who cares, there are females in all those disciplines
True
So yes, Cammy could have had almost the same clothing as Guile

But the question now arises
"Should" she have that?
 

spider

CLANG
On Break
Oct 23, 2017
973
Australia
You do understand that if Cindy would mean a mature rating that we are going towards islamic countries rating systems

Dont be disingenuous. The point was that the ratings system is skewed so that sexualizations of female figures are more tolerable. A desire to improve that fact is not a bad aspiration. If you do have a problem against the ratings system being reviewed to better balance both genders, please try not to resort to fear-mongering.
 

Cid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
395
So other than stating trivial facts, are you saying the reason female designs differ from male designs is due to a lack of imagination/knowledge/ and possibly respect on the part of the designers? I'd agree with that.

Well sometimes "trivial facts" are forgotten and sometimes they actually do explain things or part of things

And yes
Like I said
Cammy could of course have the same clothing style like Guile
Yes, sexiness is what is part of many female designs
I keep saying that
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I understand many things you all say

This is just one of the many things where we disagree. Sad to say I think you're out of your depth in this discussion, you come off as extremelly green and uninformed; which is OK, everyone has to start somewhere, but implying you're the "objective" one is not doing you any favors.
 

DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,588
Hero of Winds Link is canonically very talkative whereas most other Links are more stoic and quiet. Skyward Sword Link is more of a romantic than the other ones and BOTW Link is canonically Bear Grylls.

Ehhhh. Most of that describes what he does, not who he is. One character having consecutive adventures could do all of those things. In general he's a survivor and adventurer. As for the talkative thing, that also depends on how many people a particular adventure gives him to talk to. In BotW Link is described as both, talkative until he was hit with the pressures of his duty then he goes quiet. One person can be both from moment to moment. I'm a lurker, today I'm posting like crazy. I'm still the same person.

Well sometimes "trivial facts" are forgotten and sometimes they actually do explain things or part of things

And yes
Like I said
Cammy could of course have the same clothing style like Guile
Yes, sexiness is what is part of many female designs
I keep saying that

Then what point are you trying to make that we don't already know?
 

Cid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
395
Dont be disingenuous. The point was that the ratings system is skewed so that sexualizations of female figures are more tolerable. A desire to improve that fact is not a bad aspiration. If you do have a problem against the ratings system being reviewed to better balance both genders, please try not to resort to fear-mongering.

I hate that word disingenious by now
I am super duper trying to emphitizes with everyone here
And calling me that means I am dishonest
It really offends me by now
 

Cid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
395
A couple weeks ago I was against everything people said here in this thread
But now I understand the position of members in this thread much more
But then people still so vicously call you disingenious, I really thinks thats not fair
 

Cid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
395
A couple weeks ago I was against everything people said here in this thread
But now I understand the position of members in this thread much more
But then people still so vicously call you disingenious, I really thinks thats not fair

Damn I sound like a whimp here lol
 

spider

CLANG
On Break
Oct 23, 2017
973
Australia
I hate that word disingenious by now
I am super duper trying to emphitizes with everyone here
And calling me that means I am dishonest
It really offends me by now

Maybe this isn't the place for you, then, Cid. You're trying to empathize? Sorry but I find it a bit hard to discern. Women have proffered their preferences (various, mind you. some are hard core bayonetta fans, who is clearly a sexy character), but there are continuous push to make sure that all women know that sexualization of female figures are almost as if it is a sacred cow that shall not be criticized.

No one is making you participate in this thread, you know. But you do come across as disingenuous to many here. If you're offended by that word, maybe you should either change your approach to the discussion here or cease your participation because that's an honest feedback from a few posters in this thread.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Well sometimes "trivial facts" are forgotten and sometimes they actually do explain things or part of things

And yes
Like I said
Cammy could of course have the same clothing style like Guile
Yes, sexiness is what is part of many female designs
I keep saying that
Just to sum up, you were originally claiming that men had more historical uniforms, and that meant more recognisable 'professions' for male characters.

You've conceded that female military staff in uniform or armour existed long before fighting games, so I think your argument about bringing facts in is kinda shakey at this point.

You moved on to percentages of combatants, of which I'm struggling to see the relevance to character design when female combatants exist to base designs on. Whether it's 1 or 2 or 20 or 50 per cent of them is irrelevant, in the same way that men probably make up a small number of nurses in various places but nobody requires them to be depicted in a mankini in media because of it.

So yes, Cammy could have had almost the same clothing as Guile

But the question now arises
"Should" she have that?

As to whether a female character 'should' be sexualised compared to a bloke in the same profession, I think the whole point of the thread is offering examples of how common the 'background radiation' of sexualised female character design is. It's not really about any one example, it's that, seeing as you brought up percentages, it's a default aspect of a huge portion of female character designs.
 
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a Question

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,218
I dont think the clothe or uniform matters as how you illustrate it. I mean look at this.

Kato-Hayashi-Dynamite-comics-Green-Hornet-Matt-Wagner.jpg
MAY100934._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg


In comparison to this. (I find this a much better job)
latest
top10_montoya.jpg
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,007
Canada
And that's why I wrote it. We all agree on a lot of things here, but we aren't mental clones. Echo chambers can get hostile to people with different opinions right down to the minutia and reasons for those opinions can be ignored. Take a sledge hammer to that shit.
Yea for sure. It's def interesting to read differing opinions, even from like minded people.
If this thread reaches 100 pages more I might even become against Quiet lol
New thread goal
 
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