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EvilGizmo

Member
Nov 14, 2017
81
Same with me, My ticket hasn't been responded to in the last couple of days...I'm thinking the helpdesk isn't occupied these days, but they ARE doing the big blowout tomorrow so they can't all be at home. :-/

Well, anyway, hopefully I will get a reply soon (I don't use Twitter) and I also hope neither of us won't need any replacement copies.....

Customer support isn't in the office over the weekend, in for NYD though.
It sounds like your hold order was more than the $500 cap for shipping. Everything up to that cap is shipped out, starting with the oldest order first, then when the cap is hit, everything else is set to remain on hold.
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,209
How did we sour you? We did Blind Boxes last year and it was incredibly popular. We don't expect everyone to like it but a lot of people seemed to enjoy it and even told us so at conventions.

Sorry, we lost you. =/

You have desperate people looking to fill holes in their collection by blindly buying games they don't need. It is popular because the prices on some of the games has spiked, so people are hopeful they can scalp whatever they don't want.

I guess if people somehow enjoy the gambling aspect, more power to them.

Regarding my loss of interest, was poor game quality and the cover variants that did me in. I never cared about your limited editions or associated big box fetish, but that was easy to ignore except when you did cover variants in the LE. Today is a perfect example of a terrible game with multiple covers.

I'll still grab any extremely good games (i.e. M2 stuff if it happens) but lost interest in any collection aspect.
 
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Zippedpinhead

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,708
I ordered two to fend off against dupes... but then it occured to me what are the odds of getting two of the same item in the blind buy?
 

denpanosekai

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,286
I was able to get Pang, Mitsurui and La Mulana CE but not fricking Shadow Warrior which was unavailable for the first 3 minutes then immediately went sold out.
 

Samuray

Member
Nov 21, 2017
411
Hamburg, Germany
Customer support isn't in the office over the weekend, in for NYD though.
It sounds like your hold order was more than the $500 cap for shipping. Everything up to that cap is shipped out, starting with the oldest order first, then when the cap is hit, everything else is set to remain on hold.


Uh...that's actually a pretty good guess. O_o
I totally didn't consider that because I added the costs of the games before and triggered the release shipment option when it went above 500, in my case with "Double Dragon"....but I only added the game prices and ignored the shipping fees. Maybe that was my mistake?

In any case, you could well be correct because all the missing games are from "Super Gunworld 2" onwards, with "ROM 2064" and "Crawl" being the most current games in this shipping email. Makes sense. But I really thought we'd be talking 500$ item value. This way only 11 games make up for reaching the 500$ ceiling....this can't be right. Curious.

Well, if this is the case, this leaves the double "Nex Machina" CE copy. Hopefully they will be able to fish it out before my package ships.
 

Shizuka

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,079
What happens if someone buys the leftover stock games, decides to use the hold shipment service and they mess up the shipping months from now? There's absolutely no guarantee you'll get your game in case something happens.
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,765
Welp, I think I'm finally done with Limited Run Games. I broke the streak today and it feels like a good stopping point. I'm someone who bought every release and every variation of the covers. The developer edition was really the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I know they've said they're never doing that again, but it's just too late for me and it's not that factor alone. It's all the other issues and missteps along the way and it feels like certain aspects are getting worse rather than better. So sure, no developer edition in the future, but some other annoying decision is for sure to come up given their past history.

It's the combination of how releases can be too frequent, how often there are cover variations and how sometimes they make it easy for you to get them and other times it's just random luck, the blind variation of Windjammers was even worse, the quality of the selection coming out, the mediocre quality of some of the collector's editions, the fact that there are collectors or limited editions when the run is limited to begin with and so forth. It's just a ton of things that add up to the point where I've had enough. It used to be games were on hand and they made bold statements of how they didn't do preorders because they wanted stock on hand, but now that's no longer the case. Games can come one or two months after the sale now. So now we don't get preorders in the sense that we still have to worry about them selling out in seconds, but we also have to wait awhile before they will ship in some cases. On top of all that it feels like the communication is still not great not to mention the mistakes that happen during releases seem to be more frequent lately which of course impacts people who are trying to order. I know for sure I missed out on a cover variation because they didn't state that the facing cover was going to be different like they normally did but it was still the case anyway. It's mistakes like that which add up.

Things used to be simple and now it's become way complex compared to how things were. The complexity made things a headache in trying to keep up and now I've lost interest as a result.

I probably won't go cold turkey as I'm curious what Switch games will be coming, but the fact that I'm no longer following it on a regular basis means I'm likely to miss things until it becomes a point where I don't even pay attention anymore. The fact that the complete set will now longer be viable after today also means there's very little chance LRG can bring me back in to be spending that much on a regular basis through them again either. I'm sure in the near term LRG will be fine, as even today's release sold out in less than an hour and everyone was down on it, but I think LRG really needs to look at their long term outlook and decisions not to mention the communication otherwise I think other long time collectors will start to bail or reduce their spending significantly. I know LRG is trying to expand their audience and grow their business, but doing so at the expense of the regulars could hurt them in the end. I spent nearly $3200 on them in 2017 and now 2018 could end up being $0 from me because of how things played out. I wish them luck and hopefully they can find some value in why I left rather than just throwing their hands up thinking you can't please everyone. Too often I see people throwing out that conclusion and I think it's misguided especially when you're losing long time loyal customers.
 

ragnar14

Member
Oct 28, 2017
931
Vancouver
I broke the streak today

Good. Streak collecting is stupid and a waste of money.
You clearly didn't enjoy it, and throwing $3200 at LRG didn't significantly help them. Especially considering you're thinking of just shutting them out now. That $3200 you spent could've come from 50-100 other people, who would've enjoyed spending the money a lot more, and could easily increase their spending to $13200 next year.

The whole preorder situation does suck though. LRG has to know it's a problem. No casual buyers are going to put up with it.
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,586
The whole preorder situation does suck though. LRG has to know it's a problem. No casual buyers are going to put up with it.

Even though the games aren't made right away, I still think it's a situation where the order has been MADE, even though they haven't been produced yet. (Trust me, supply chain issues are harder to change than it seems...)

Still, I'm more a "casual" with LRG as I only get the games I want, but I honestly don't care when they come in (especially as someone waiting on like, 20 Kickstarter stuff to come in, one day). A month or two is whatever, and I'm not the type that needs the game NOW. Does everyone that doesn't want to wait on the game actually want to open it up and play it right away, I wonder? It reminds me of people that are against doing preorders, unless the game gets dated. Never understood this way of thinking, either. Pre-orders can always be cancelled and refunded, and delays happen all the time, even to games with dates. I'm just not one that is urgent to get my stuff.... unless it's things like getting Nintendo items from Amazon, where it's never a sure thing and I've been screwed in the past by it :/
(Note: None of this applies to the issue with hold items... that's a whole other situation in itself, and one that is definitely incompetent).
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,209
Good. Streak collecting is stupid and a waste of money.
You clearly didn't enjoy it, and throwing $3200 at LRG didn't significantly help them. Especially considering you're thinking of just shutting them out now. That $3200 you spent could've come from 50-100 other people, who would've enjoyed spending the money a lot more, and could easily increase their spending to $13200 next year.

It's incredible that a former customer can care enough to post thoughtful criticisms that should be beneficial to LRG if taken to heart, then the first response is a "good" drive-by that takes nothing from it at all.
 

neonglow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
790
I'm still waiting for my copy of Skullgirls for the Vita. It's been over a year since the preorder happened. Most disappointing is that my copy of Volume is also being held back.

I stopped trying to get every game around the time Stranger's Wraith sold out under a few minutes. I just pick whatever I find interesting now which has allowed me to ignore tons of their titles.
 

LimitedRunGames

Verified
Nov 2, 2017
310
Welp, I think I'm finally done with Limited Run Games. I broke the streak today and it feels like a good stopping point. I'm someone who bought every release and every variation of the covers. The developer edition was really the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I know they've said they're never doing that again, but it's just too late for me and it's not that factor alone. It's all the other issues and missteps along the way and it feels like certain aspects are getting worse rather than better. So sure, no developer edition in the future, but some other annoying decision is for sure to come up given their past history.

It's the combination of how releases can be too frequent, how often there are cover variations and how sometimes they make it easy for you to get them and other times it's just random luck, the blind variation of Windjammers was even worse, the quality of the selection coming out, the mediocre quality of some of the collector's editions, the fact that there are collectors or limited editions when the run is limited to begin with and so forth. It's just a ton of things that add up to the point where I've had enough. It used to be games were on hand and they made bold statements of how they didn't do preorders because they wanted stock on hand, but now that's no longer the case. Games can come one or two months after the sale now. So now we don't get preorders in the sense that we still have to worry about them selling out in seconds, but we also have to wait awhile before they will ship in some cases. On top of all that it feels like the communication is still not great not to mention the mistakes that happen during releases seem to be more frequent lately which of course impacts people who are trying to order. I know for sure I missed out on a cover variation because they didn't state that the facing cover was going to be different like they normally did but it was still the case anyway. It's mistakes like that which add up.

Things used to be simple and now it's become way complex compared to how things were. The complexity made things a headache in trying to keep up and now I've lost interest as a result.

I probably won't go cold turkey as I'm curious what Switch games will be coming, but the fact that I'm no longer following it on a regular basis means I'm likely to miss things until it becomes a point where I don't even pay attention anymore. The fact that the complete set will now longer be viable after today also means there's very little chance LRG can bring me back in to be spending that much on a regular basis through them again either. I'm sure in the near term LRG will be fine, as even today's release sold out in less than an hour and everyone was down on it, but I think LRG really needs to look at their long term outlook and decisions not to mention the communication otherwise I think other long time collectors will start to bail or reduce their spending significantly. I know LRG is trying to expand their audience and grow their business, but doing so at the expense of the regulars could hurt them in the end. I spent nearly $3200 on them in 2017 and now 2018 could end up being $0 from me because of how things played out. I wish them luck and hopefully they can find some value in why I left rather than just throwing their hands up thinking you can't please everyone. Too often I see people throwing out that conclusion and I think it's misguided especially when you're losing long time loyal customers.

Sorry to hear we lost you!

We are taking steps to combat your complaints.

1. No more developer editions.
2. Trying our best to order games ahead of time, but that isn't always a guarantee for us with manufacturing.
3. Working harder at communication.

We hope you come back for Switch games or maybe the occasional PS4 or Vita release. Even if not, thank you for giving us a try.
 

Ventara

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
710
Welp, I think I'm finally done with Limited Run Games. I broke the streak today and it feels like a good stopping point. I'm someone who bought every release and every variation of the covers. The developer edition was really the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I know they've said they're never doing that again, but it's just too late for me and it's not that factor alone. It's all the other issues and missteps along the way and it feels like certain aspects are getting worse rather than better. So sure, no developer edition in the future, but some other annoying decision is for sure to come up given their past history.

It's the combination of how releases can be too frequent, how often there are cover variations and how sometimes they make it easy for you to get them and other times it's just random luck, the blind variation of Windjammers was even worse, the quality of the selection coming out, the mediocre quality of some of the collector's editions, the fact that there are collectors or limited editions when the run is limited to begin with and so forth. It's just a ton of things that add up to the point where I've had enough. It used to be games were on hand and they made bold statements of how they didn't do preorders because they wanted stock on hand, but now that's no longer the case. Games can come one or two months after the sale now. So now we don't get preorders in the sense that we still have to worry about them selling out in seconds, but we also have to wait awhile before they will ship in some cases. On top of all that it feels like the communication is still not great not to mention the mistakes that happen during releases seem to be more frequent lately which of course impacts people who are trying to order. I know for sure I missed out on a cover variation because they didn't state that the facing cover was going to be different like they normally did but it was still the case anyway. It's mistakes like that which add up.

Things used to be simple and now it's become way complex compared to how things were. The complexity made things a headache in trying to keep up and now I've lost interest as a result.

I probably won't go cold turkey as I'm curious what Switch games will be coming, but the fact that I'm no longer following it on a regular basis means I'm likely to miss things until it becomes a point where I don't even pay attention anymore. The fact that the complete set will now longer be viable after today also means there's very little chance LRG can bring me back in to be spending that much on a regular basis through them again either. I'm sure in the near term LRG will be fine, as even today's release sold out in less than an hour and everyone was down on it, but I think LRG really needs to look at their long term outlook and decisions not to mention the communication otherwise I think other long time collectors will start to bail or reduce their spending significantly. I know LRG is trying to expand their audience and grow their business, but doing so at the expense of the regulars could hurt them in the end. I spent nearly $3200 on them in 2017 and now 2018 could end up being $0 from me because of how things played out. I wish them luck and hopefully they can find some value in why I left rather than just throwing their hands up thinking you can't please everyone. Too often I see people throwing out that conclusion and I think it's misguided especially when you're losing long time loyal customers.

It's comments like these that LRG really need to take to heart. I get that it's hard for them what with you can't please everyone, and the fact that they're still dealing with some past mistakes as they were learning as they went, but it's been over 2 years since they've started and they really need to know where they're heading. Right now, despite being the forerunner and arguably being the biggest gun in the limited physical publisher market, they choose to not grow and remain niche. Not only do they seem satisfied, but they seem to WANT to remain as that. But, if catering to collectors and filling niches is what they want, that's fine. But ARE they catering to collectors? From variant covers to lackluster limited editions to bare-bones releases, I say they are not. And you need look no further than LRG's comments to see this. Telling customers they don't have to buy something if they don't like it, while selling to a collector's mindset (with variant cover bundles/numbering/collectible cards) is very disingenuous. Furthermore, they don't show that they care to change any of this, constantly deflecting issues and problems on to others or turning a blind eye. Once upon a time, I felt LRG was a company that would show the love and care for physical copies that some games needed. The love seems to be long gone now.

Here's my 2 cents: If LRG continues as they are, after a few years, there's going to be an end of the line for them. Starting with the Switch, developers have more options available to them if they want a physical print of their games. We have publishers putting love and care into their limited editions, some who include bonuses and and make that physical copy something special, ones who make it a simple process to order from. Publishers who aren't afraid of not selling out day 1. Not only will they be losing games to other publishers, but they'll start to lose their userbase, and from there, it'll only get harder and harder. Today, they might be able to sign something like Golf Story, but 3 years from now, will they be able to do the same? I guess time will tell.
 
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Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,765
Sorry to hear we lost you!

We are taking steps to combat your complaints.

1. No more developer editions.

Honestly, I feel like you pointing this out after even I acknowledged you already stated they weren't happening again makes it feel like you missed the point. The point wasn't the developer edition; that was the tip of the ice berg. The point was there are too many variations and editions when every release is technically a limited edition. So instead of there being a limited edition every time, now you have a limited limited edition on top of it when you have cover variations, collector editions, and other random stuff that you don't know what you're going to get in the end. That is part of the complexity that I was mentioning compared to the simplicity of the early days of your business model. It used to be twice a month, you'd sell two games and that was it. It was predictable and simple. To make things worse, sometimes you'll have cover variations where you can make sure you get each cover some how, then you'll have other cover variations where it's random and there's no guarantee you'll get one of each. That inconsistency also adds complexity because it's unpredictable how you're going to manage to get a set of covers. To top that off you have the miscommunication of how those covers will be distributed that further adds complexity. The complexity you've created from the number of variations and editions is the biggest part of the problem, not simply the fact that there was a one instance of a developer edition. That developer edition just took it one step too far but getting rid of that doesn't solve the rest of the mess.

2. Trying our best to order games ahead of time, but that isn't always a guarantee for us with manufacturing.

I understand timing and delays can cause problems but you guys were so adamant that you didn't do preorders because you wanted to sell stock on hand. Suddenly that bold claim stopped but yet you still didn't do preorders. It felt like you were trying to have your cake and eat it too. If you were going to push that model of not taking preorders to sell stock on hand, then you should wait until you have stock on hand before you sell something. Now you're sort of taking preorders but still have that limited window without being able to use preorders as a guide to how many to produce.

3. Working harder at communication.

We keep hearing this, and I do believe you're trying, but it feels like little progress has been made in the last year. Your website alone could use more work on conveying information. You should be able to find all information through your site, through Twitter, through Facebook, through these forums, etc. You shouldn't have to figure out which source is the right source to go to in order to find the specific information you need. The fracturing of the distribution of the information alone is an area that has not been improved this last year.

We hope you come back for Switch games or maybe the occasional PS4 or Vita release. Even if not, thank you for giving us a try.

I'm still curious about the Switch titles, so I'll still look every now and then to see what's up, but I'm not sure at this point how you could get me to be a regular customer again. I like the concept. I love the idea of game preservation. I just think you pushed things too far to grow your business which has soured this regular customer who has been there since day 1.
 

ragnar14

Member
Oct 28, 2017
931
Vancouver
It's incredible that a former customer can care enough to post thoughtful criticisms that should be beneficial to LRG if taken to heart, then the first response is a "good" drive-by that takes nothing from it at all.

I don't see you posting any thoughtful comments in response? I read that entire post, and my simple thought was "he clearly didn't enjoy doing all that" and "it's good that he's stopped". The bulk of that post wasn't written to me, it's an open letter to LRG, but the main point of it warranted a response. Maybe I'm terse about it, but stopping is good. Buying for buying sake is unhealthy. So whatever.
 

Jom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,490
Maybe it's just funny to me but it's always funny when people say something akin to "you've completely lost me LRG except for switch releases... Oh and some highly rated games... Oh and if there's some cool CEs..." Constructive criticism is cool but sheesh the melodrama that comes along with it so often in this thread.
 

LimitedRunGames

Verified
Nov 2, 2017
310
Honestly, I feel like you pointing this out after even I acknowledged you already stated they weren't happening again makes it feel like you missed the point. The point wasn't the developer edition; that was the tip of the ice berg. The point was there are too many variations and editions when every release is technically a limited edition. So instead of there being a limited edition every time, now you have a limited limited edition on top of it when you have cover variations, collector editions, and other random stuff that you don't know what you're going to get in the end. That is part of the complexity that I was mentioning compared to the simplicity of the early days of your business model. It used to be twice a month, you'd sell two games and that was it. It was predictable and simple. To make things worse, sometimes you'll have cover variations where you can make sure you get each cover some how, then you'll have other cover variations where it's random and there's no guarantee you'll get one of each. That inconsistency also adds complexity because it's unpredictable how you're going to manage to get a set of covers. To top that off you have the miscommunication of how those covers will be distributed that further adds complexity. The complexity you've created from the number of variations and editions is the biggest part of the problem, not simply the fact that there was a one instance of a developer edition. That developer edition just took it one step too far but getting rid of that doesn't solve the rest of the mess.



I understand timing and delays can cause problems but you guys were so adamant that you didn't do preorders because you wanted to sell stock on hand. Suddenly that bold claim stopped but yet you still didn't do preorders. It felt like you were trying to have your cake and eat it too. If you were going to push that model of not taking preorders to sell stock on hand, then you should wait until you have stock on hand before you sell something. Now you're sort of taking preorders but still have that limited window without being able to use preorders as a guide to how many to produce.



We keep hearing this, and I do believe you're trying, but it feels like little progress has been made in the last year. Your website alone could use more work on conveying information. You should be able to find all information through your site, through Twitter, through Facebook, through these forums, etc. You shouldn't have to figure out which source is the right source to go to in order to find the specific information you need. The fracturing of the distribution of the information alone is an area that has not been improved this last year.



I'm still curious about the Switch titles, so I'll still look every now and then to see what's up, but I'm not sure at this point how you could get me to be a regular customer again. I like the concept. I love the idea of game preservation. I just think you pushed things too far to grow your business which has soured this regular customer who has been there since day 1.


I didn't miss your point, I'm sorry you feel that way.

We are no longer doing developer editions or collector edition variants. We've been told having a variant is okay by the majority of our fans as long as it's reversible. We will still have show variants because it helps pay for the booth and travel.

We don't like selling things when they aren't in hand, sometimes the dates we list are actually way overestimated. We rather tell you something is farther off and ship it to you quicker than the other way around. With as many games as we have signed, we have to keep the dates we promised developers. We can't predict how long something takes to manufacture as the time it takes seems to constantly change now versus when we first started.

We have promised to make 2018 much better in terms of communication. We acknowledge that it was spread everywhere. The main sources are going to be the website, mailing list, twitter, facebook and our forum.

Again, I'm sorry for the inconvenience and losing you as a customer.
 

mthodmn101

Alt account
Banned
Nov 16, 2017
54
I didn't miss your point, I'm sorry you feel that way.

We are no longer doing developer editions or collector edition variants. We've been told having a variant is okay by the majority of our fans as long as it's reversible. We will still have show variants because it helps pay for the booth and travel.

We don't like selling things when they aren't in hand, sometimes the dates we list are actually way overestimated. We rather tell you something is farther off and ship it to you quicker than the other way around. With as many games as we have signed, we have to keep the dates we promised developers. We can't predict how long something takes to manufacture as the time it takes seems to constantly change now versus when we first started.

We have promised to make 2018 much better in terms of communication. We acknowledge that it was spread everywhere. The main sources are going to be the website, mailing list, twitter, facebook and our forum.

Again, I'm sorry for the inconvenience and losing you as a customer.

Reversible covers are fine, but dont do the random cover on outside bullshit anymore.
 

Occam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,510
@LRG I am glad that you are listening to the feedback.
I for one would really appreciate some quality control regarding which games you publish. Be discriminating. Say no to low quality titles and shovelware. Stuff like today's game (Mecho Tales) doesn't deserve a physical release.
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,765
I didn't miss your point, I'm sorry you feel that way.

We are no longer doing developer editions or collector edition variants. We've been told having a variant is okay by the majority of our fans as long as it's reversible. We will still have show variants because it helps pay for the booth and travel.

We don't like selling things when they aren't in hand, sometimes the dates we list are actually way overestimated. We rather tell you something is farther off and ship it to you quicker than the other way around. With as many games as we have signed, we have to keep the dates we promised developers. We can't predict how long something takes to manufacture as the time it takes seems to constantly change now versus when we first started.

We have promised to make 2018 much better in terms of communication. We acknowledge that it was spread everywhere. The main sources are going to be the website, mailing list, twitter, facebook and our forum.

Again, I'm sorry for the inconvenience and losing you as a customer.

Well I'm glad you didn't miss the point I was trying to convey but honestly, how was I supposed to gather that from your response? You simply replied with no more developer editions where as your second reply had a bit more to address my main point. See that falls in line with the communication problem. Had you said more the first time or addressed my issue differently, I wouldn't have come to the conclusion that you missed the point. I think you really should look at how you responded at first and then realize why people think you have communication problems especially since you've stated you're trying to improve it for 2018. It's not just where and what you communicate but also how you communicate. Make no mistake, having your presence here is definitely helpful and it's good that you respond to people's issue, but I'll reiterate again, how was I supposed to gather any of that from you simply saying this:

1. No more developer editions.

Please understand how one might think you didn't understand the point based on that response.

Maybe it's just funny to me but it's always funny when people say something akin to "you've completely lost me LRG except for switch releases... Oh and some highly rated games... Oh and if there's some cool CEs..." Constructive criticism is cool but sheesh the melodrama that comes along with it so often in this thread.

How is it melodramatic that $3200 spent in one year could be reduced to what, $100 the next year? That's a sizable percentage decrease in spending from a loyal customer.

Reversible covers are fine, but dont do the random cover on outside bullshit anymore.

This! This so much!

I had usually gotten the different covers by buying multiples, and I know it's not guaranteed, but I was highly disappointed when I got two of the same when it came to Ys and that was my most anticipated release of all the LRG releases. It's crap for a collector.
 

LimitedRunGames

Verified
Nov 2, 2017
310
@LRG I am glad that you are listening to the feedback.
I for one would really appreciate some quality control regarding which games you publish. Be discriminating. Say no to low quality titles and shovelware. Stuff like today's game (Mecho Tales) doesn't deserve a physical release.
Thak you for the support.

We are definitely signing much less and bigger titles now.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,927
Was the Y's (it was that release, right) that did the weekend preorder a success? I'd like to see high demand and big titles support longer or even preorder windows so it isn't a free for all.
 

Borman

Digital Games Curator at The Strong Museum
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
843
Im happy to continue to support for the time being, the game preservation side of having something on a cart is the most meaningful. I think that message gets lost a bit, and I think simplifying things could be good for everyone.

I do worry about the number of variants and CE's though, since my income isn't quite what it was in some ways right now, and it has always reminded me of the comic industry's behavior in the 90's where they made things because they could get away with it. I avoided PS4 releases mostly because I knew I wouldnt be able to keep up with it all that way. As it is, I missed a CE of a Vita game simply because I didnt see it, but Im not all that upset. Adding Switch to it will complicate things a bit too.
 

Jom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,490
Hmmm now we're making judgments on what "deserves" a physical copy? I mean if we're talking about a game that is simply broken and doesn't let you get to level 2 sure that shouldn't get a physical copy.

Everyone has subjective judgments on what is a good or bad game but you already have a way to exercise that judgment. Just. Don't. Buy. The. Game.

Saying "Hey I don't like this game and therefore it shouldn't even be made into a physical copy so that no one else can have it too" is silly and selfish.
 

mattysaurus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
636
Was the Y's (it was that release, right) that did the weekend preorder a success? I'd like to see high demand and big titles support longer or even preorder windows so it isn't a free for all.

If I recall correctly, PS4 was in line with expectations, but Vita was lower than anticipated.


As always, I appreciate LRGs' efforts to publish digital-only titles, and I'll continue to buy games from them (and anyone else) that interest me. I encourage other gamers to break their streak and buy the games they want, not just anything they're offered.
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,209
I don't see you posting any thoughtful comments in response? I read that entire post, and my simple thought was "he clearly didn't enjoy doing all that" and "it's good that he's stopped". The bulk of that post wasn't written to me, it's an open letter to LRG, but the main point of it warranted a response. Maybe I'm terse about it, but stopping is good. Buying for buying sake is unhealthy. So whatever.

Except that it clearly was something that he enjoyed, but it's something that he became dissatisfied with over time. The issue is that he's not the only one that has these opinions, and he's not the only one getting out. The whole thing was preventable, so it's a shame. Understanding his thoughtful post is important for the future of LRG, and simplifying it to him not buying games in the same way that you do is bad, so it's good that he stopped... is not helpful.

I should have taken the time to convey a summary of the things that got under my skin over time, but honestly it would have read much the same as DK's thoughts. In the end the Developer Edition was the last straw for me too, especially since it's for a dev that makes such hollow games.

Everyone has subjective judgments on what is a good or bad game but you already have a way to exercise that judgment. Just. Don't. Buy. The. Game.

Surely you can understand and appreciate that there are collectors in the world, and these things certainly lend themselves to that. Heck, they are even numbered for display purposes. It's a segment that is courted and imo exploited by LRG so it shouldn't be discounted. You don't share that mindset, so you don't appreciate a different perspective. You can disagree all day if you wish, but they clearly went the 90's comic direction (as mentioned occasionally and even a couple posts up) and they have eliminated some of their customers for it. This past year has been quantity over quality, multiplied by all the variant covers and poor collector's editions (imo).

To be clear, I will still root for them to do well. I hope they improve the business practices, and I have no doubt that my contribution to their bottom line is easily soaked up by eager buyers. If they release something cool that I can't get elsewhere then I'll try to grab it. If it's cheaper via Play Asia or whatever, great. It's just going to be a different mindset than buying things because they published them.
 
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FRANKEINSTEIN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,138
AZ
I ordered a PS4 mystery box. Wanted Vita more but kinda forgot about the afternoon release till I saw the email like 10 min after it started.
 

Occam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,510
Hmmm now we're making judgments on what "deserves" a physical copy? I mean if we're talking about a game that is simply broken and doesn't let you get to level 2 sure that shouldn't get a physical copy.


Everyone has subjective judgments on what is a good or bad game but you already have a way to exercise that judgment. Just. Don't. Buy. The. Game.


Saying "Hey I don't like this game and therefore it shouldn't even be made into a physical copy so that no one else can have it too" is silly and selfish.

Continuing with the current example, I don't think anyone besides the developer was asking for a physical release of Mecho Tales. Review scores range from 40% - 60%. Please feel free to link to any posts of people asking for this game.
 

Jom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,490
Except that it clearly was something that he enjoyed, but it's something that he became dissatisfied with over time. The issue is that he's not the only one that has these opinions, and he's not the only one getting out. The whole thing was preventable, so it's a shame. Understanding his thoughtful post is important for the future of LRG, and simplifying it to him not buying games in the same way that you do is bad, so it's good that he stopped... is not helpful.

I should have taken the time to convey a summary of the things that got under my skin over time, but honestly it would have read much the same as DK's thoughts. In the end the Developer Edition was the last straw for me too, especially since it's for a dev that makes such hollow games.



Surely you can understand and appreciate that there are collectors in the world, and these things certainly lend themselves to that. Heck, they are even numbered for display purposes. It's a segment that is courted and imo exploited by LRG so it shouldn't be discounted. You don't share that mindset, so you don't appreciate a different perspective. You can disagree all day if you wish, but they clearly went the 90's comic direction (as mentioned occasionally and even a couple posts up) and they have eliminated some of their customers for it. This past year has been quantity over quality, multiplied by all the variant covers and poor collector's editions (imo).

There are also people who collect entire console game catalogs. I guess we should start throwing out the games these collectors deem not worthy to make their goal a bit easier? I mean who cares about someone who might just want a game that they like preserved in disc form right?
 

Jom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,490
Continuing with the current example, I don't think anyone besides the developer was asking for a physical release of Mecho Tales. Review scores range from 40% - 60%. Please feel free to link to any posts of people asking for this game.
You know there's more than the people here in this thread who buy from LRG? The game sold out except for the developer edition. Is it your contention that all the copies went to the thousands of complete set collectors and scalpers and that nobody wanted this game cause they maybe liked the art or wanted to try the game?
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,209
There are also people who collect entire console game catalogs. I guess we should start throwing out the games these collectors deem not worthy to make their goal a bit easier? I mean who cares about someone who might just want a game that they like preserved in disc form right?

You know there's more than the people here in this thread who buy from LRG? The game sold out except for the developer edition. Is it your contention that all the copies went to the thousands of complete set collectors and scalpers and that nobody wanted this game cause they maybe liked the art or wanted to try the game?

So if I understand correctly, your position is that all games are good. There are no objectively bad games. More physical games is always better.

Using those positions with the more=better approach, then the video game market never crashed in 1983, comic books didn't go to shit in the 1990's, etc.. I'd like to make a comment about sports cards too, but I honestly stopped caring a long time ago so I'm not sure I'd be on point.
 

Occam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,510
You know there's more than the people here in this thread who buy from LRG? The game sold out except for the developer edition. Is it your contention that all the copies went to the thousands of complete set collectors and scalpers and that nobody wanted this game cause they maybe liked the art or wanted to try the game?

So what you are trying to tell us here is that there should be no criticism and that bad games are somehow good because of reasons. I see.
 

test_account

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,645
So if I understand correctly, your position is that all games are good. There are no objectively bad games. More physical games is always better.

Using those positions with the more=better approach, then the video game market never crashed in 1983, comic books didn't go to shit in the 1990's, etc.. I'd like to make a comment about sports cards too, but I honestly stopped caring a long time ago so I'm not sure I'd be on point.
Honestly, theres not really any objectively bad games unless we talk about specific things that can be meassured, like bugs and glitches. Although, even in some of those cases, the games themself can still arguably be good in their own aspect. One example is Nuclear Throne. I love this game, very cool gameplay, but the PS4 and Vita version are so buggy that i've never been able to finish the game because of this. I've gotten to the last boss 3 times and the game crashed every single time when i got to that point. Two years later, its still not fixed.

Of course, the general consensus could be that a game is bad, but in the end, its all subjective.


So what you are trying to tell us here is that there should be no criticism and that bad games are somehow good because of reasons. I see.
I dont think hes saying that at all. Its fine to say opinions about which games, but i think LRG would be much more limited (no pun intended :P) in their business if they should only release games that a bigger percentage of their fans requested. Maybe it would even be impossible to get the contract to release many of the requests.
 
Oct 26, 2017
943
Continuing with the current example, I don't think anyone besides the developer was asking for a physical release of Mecho Tales. Review scores range from 40% - 60%. Please feel free to link to any posts of people asking for this game.

You know how many Japanese Vita games managed to get scores like that before even being announced for localization, yet still received localizations and physical copies? If we get that trash over here (some of which isn't actually half bad), why can't we get releases like this? Not every release has to be for you or even 90% of the customer base (although the more potential customers the better). For those complete collectors whining about how bad this game looks and how it's the last straw for them, I'd ask if they've actually looked through their library before now, because I can guarantee there's some hot trash in there that makes this look like a masterpiece. How did those releases get a pass and yet this is what brought things into question?

Hell I'd ask the same for those complete collectors who don't even open most of their games, because I know there's at least one of you here. Why are you so concerned about the quality of the game when you will never even touch said game?
 
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Jom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,490
So if I understand correctly, your position is that all games are good. There are no objectively bad games. More physical games is always better.

Using those positions with the more=better approach, then the video game market never crashed in 1983, comic books didn't go to shit in the 1990's, etc.. I'd like to make a comment about sports cards too, but I honestly stopped caring a long time ago so I'm not sure I'd be on point.
No you have not understood at all.

The point is who are you or anyone else other than the two parties involved in making the physical copies a reality to say what does and doesn't get made?

Your tastes are not mine are not Bob's are not Beth's.

As a potential consumer say all you want how shitty you think the game is and how it totally deserves a 0/100 on metacritic and then follow that up by NOT buying the shit out of that product. That is your power as a discerning consumer. But who is anyone to say that should not exist for anyone simply because they hate it?

If any of you guys believe in LRG as a company trying to do some manner of game preservation by releasing digital games both big and small then you should realize that preservation isn't about only preserving those things that one person believes to be valuable or match his tastes.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,022
Phoenix
So if I understand correctly, your position is that all games are good. There are no objectively bad games. More physical games is always better.

Using those positions with the more=better approach, then the video game market never crashed in 1983, comic books didn't go to shit in the 1990's, etc.. I'd like to make a comment about sports cards too, but I honestly stopped caring a long time ago so I'm not sure I'd be on point.

While we are discussing market collapses caused by saturation I'd like to add the small-press horror market in 2008-2010. Variant covers, foil stamps and pricey editions with tiny limitations designed to spook completists. Sure it's a bad book but there are only 300 of this bad book... Similar to where we are right now it was also caused by a land grab of tons of new small presses entering market trying to leverage wallet share of an increasingly irritated collector's market.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,022
Phoenix

The badness of this idea is amazing. Unless you can just buy it and load it into an account at any time then this is the worst. Picture some d00d trying to enter a gift card when Phantom Breaker. I continue to suspect that they are having cash flow problems and actively soliciting deferred income feels like a manifestation of that. That and the excessive variants, blind boxes, and lack of progress on any of the outstanding Kickstarters. Maybe none of their contractual partners have reached out to them about these games and they don't want to "rush them."
 

Jom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,490
So what you are trying to tell us here is that there should be no criticism and that bad games are somehow good because of reasons. I see.
What you wrote was criticism of Mecho Tales the game, not criticism of LRG. If you think Mecho Tales is an absolute garbage game and want to talk about every part where it fails why not make a Mecho Tales [OT] and criticize it there?

Should all of us, every time we deem a LRG release to be a bad game come and levy criticism at LRG for publishing a "bad game". I'm pretty sure everyone here would start getting pretty tired of that since there are always going to be people who think a game is bad. From my personal tastes, I'd say most of the LRG releases so far are games I find to be bad. But the difference is, I don't come in here somehow blaming LRG for what I know to be my own personal tastes.

"Hey guys I think Night Trap is an absolute trash heap of a game, it doesn't deserve to be pressed onto a disc and should never have been. Shame on you LRG!" Is that how it works? I wonder how many people would be sad had that not been made physical.

If people want to criticize for all the variant covers because they think it'll run LRG out of business and thereby taking away by far the largest publisher of niche digital games, please have at it. That's criticism of LRG at least. At least there you have some evidence to back up that criticism with some variants not selling well like the Developer's Edition (which LRG already agreed not to do anymore). Criticizing LRG because they released a game you personally think is bad, and making a statement like it shouldn't even be made, not just for you, but for anyone else -- I mean nobody is going to stop you from doing that, but you really don't think that's silly?
 

Jom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,490
I'm glad we have an arbiter of what we can and cannot criticize in this thread.
Hey criticize whatever you want but generally people tend to listen and react more to criticism that actually makes sense.

I'd imagine criticism like "I don't like game. You should have never pressed game." gets a response from LRG like "ok".