So, BOTW is kinda insane on CEMU these days.

Tuco Benedicto Pacifico · Dec 30, 2017

dan2026 said:
I hate how every little bit of effort is pumped into getting Zelda to run amazingly yet a ton of other wii u games barely function on the emulator.

This is a recurring yet baseless claim.
Every single update to CEMU so far improved compatibility with PLENTY of other games. Every. Single. One.
Just in the last weeks Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate went from "not even starting" to "virtually flawless emulation at full 60 fps".
If anything, are community efforts that are focused mostly on BoTW (and Smash).

bangai-o · Dec 30, 2017

Why is "definitive edition" so important to gamers?

zoukka · Dec 30, 2017

bangai-o said:
Why is "definitive edition" so important to gamers?

Many people enjoy optimizing their entertainment experiences.

rodrigolfp · Dec 30, 2017

Amazing work!!!

bangai-o said:
Why is "definitive edition" so important to gamers?

Why gamers like to have the best possible experience? Rly?

elyetis · Dec 30, 2017

bangai-o said:
Why is "definitive edition" so important to gamers?

For the same reason some people will try to improve audio quality of the music they listen, or be happy to have 4k movies and not just VHS.

VanWinkle · Dec 30, 2017

Man, what I'm really jealous of is the image quality. The game looks SO good with great image quality. 900p really does it no justice on Switch.

Patch13 · Dec 30, 2017

elyetis said:
For the same reason some people will try to improve audio quality of the music they listen, or be happy to have 4k movies and not just VHS.

On the other hand, there's a school of thought that emulates scan lines in old games, or even digs up old analogue SD TVs for authenticity. And Hollywood spends a lot of money adding stimulated film grain into digitally shot movies. The flaws of a medium can be strengths.

Old games upscaled look crisp, but you lose some of the original artistic vision, built around the technical limitations of the original console.

Breath of the a Wild is gorgeous at 30fps and 900p. I think that it's neat that we get a 4k upscaled version via emulation, but that's never going to be the "definitive" version, just like a colorized black and white movie looks cool, but will never be the choice of cinephiles.

beeeats · Dec 30, 2017

Patch13 said:
Old games upscaled look crisp, but you lose some of the original artistic vision, built around the technical limitations of the original console.

Breath of the a Wild is gorgeous at 30fps and 900p. I think that it's neat that we get a 4k upscaled version via emulation, but that's never going to be the "definitive" version, just like a colorized black and white movie looks cool, but will never be the choice of cinephiles.

This is an utterly bizarre comparison. Why did they up the resolution on the Switch vs. the Wii U? Because they could. If the hardware had the capability they'd absolutely choose to render at 1080p or even higher. Artistic vision has nothing to do with it.

Mifec · Dec 30, 2017

Patch13 said:
On the other hand, there's a school of thought that emulates scan lines in old games, or even digs up old analogue SD TVs for authenticity. And Hollywood spends a lot of money adding stimulated film grain into digitally shot movies. The flaws of a medium can be strengths.

Old games upscaled look crisp, but you lose some of the original artistic vision, built around the technical limitations of the original console.

Breath of the a Wild is gorgeous at 30fps and 900p. I think that it's neat that we get a 4k upscaled version via emulation, but that's never going to be the "definitive" version, just like a colorized black and white movie looks cool, but will never be the choice of cinephiles.

This is most definitely not the case with never videogames like BOTW and the CEMU version will in the end look and run better than the 30fps 900p version.

Red · Dec 30, 2017

Patch13 said:
On the other hand, there's a school of thought that emulates scan lines in old games, or even digs up old analogue SD TVs for authenticity. And Hollywood spends a lot of money adding stimulated film grain into digitally shot movies. The flaws of a medium can be strengths.

Old games upscaled look crisp, but you lose some of the original artistic vision, built around the technical limitations of the original console.

Breath of the a Wild is gorgeous at 30fps and 900p. I think that it's neat that we get a 4k upscaled version via emulation, but that's never going to be the "definitive" version, just like a colorized black and white movie looks cool, but will never be the choice of cinephiles.

No cinephile is going to look for the VHS version of that black and white movie when a better format is available.

Like, you don't see people pushing back against Criterion extending their library.

Tuco Benedicto Pacifico · Dec 30, 2017

Patch13 said:
On the other hand, there's a school of thought that emulates scan lines in old games, or even digs up old analogue SD TVs for authenticity.

Old games upscaled look crisp, but you lose some of the original artistic vision

That's definitely NOT a school of thought everyone embraces, so it's great to have options.
And "original artistic visions" are often overrated in their importance, especially when they are dictated more by technological restrictions than genuine desire to settle for a specific standard.

I also don't adhere on the [often related] school of thought that a creator has right to decide how his product should be enjoyed, once it's out in the open.

TaKeRx · Dec 30, 2017

If I could move saves between pc/switch then that would be amazing, but I'm pretty sure that can't be done correct?

2+2=5 · Dec 30, 2017

I dunno if legit but apparently it's playable even the gpd win 2

Tuco Benedicto Pacifico · Dec 30, 2017

TaKeRx said:
If I could move saves between pc/switch then that would be amazing, but I'm pretty sure that can't be done correct?

It can, and there are several tutorials on youtube about it.
I never bothered trying it directly, so I can't suggest a specifically good one, but I'm sure you won't struggle to find something useful.

butman · Dec 30, 2017

A little off topic but I assume that if BOTW run perfect and like butter, the rest of WiiU library run the same or even better?
I want to play Bayonetta 2

Tuco Benedicto Pacifico · Dec 30, 2017

butman said:
A little off topic but I assume that if BOTW run perfect and like butter, the rest of WiiU library run the same or even better?
I want to play Bayonetta 2

Bayonetta 2 was another fairly demanding game, but as far as I know its performances improved significantly as well with this version. Second hand information because I don't have it so I didn't try it.

Generally speaking, anyway, your guess is correct. Most games that work on CEMU perform better with significant less effort. For instance MH3U, Wind Waker HD and Twilight Princess HD could probably run at full speed on a toaster.

rbanke · Dec 30, 2017

So I played a few hours of it on CEMU to see how it ran back in August or whenever they switched the shader cache thing around and it looked amazing and ran at 60 most of the time. There was crashing though and I decided to come back to it. This Christmas we bought a Switch for my youngest and my wife picked BOTW up for me on switch but now I'm feeling like I don't really want to play a lesser version of it. Playing a slightly better version than the Wii U vs playing it on my pc...I feel guilty skipping the copy my wife bought me but I may do just that since it's such a huge difference.

EDIT: I should mention the fact that loading time on my pc is near instantaneous is worth it alone aside from extreme graphical improvements.

1-D_FE · Dec 30, 2017

Patch13 said:
On the other hand, there's a school of thought that emulates scan lines in old games, or even digs up old analogue SD TVs for authenticity. And Hollywood spends a lot of money adding stimulated film grain into digitally shot movies. The flaws of a medium can be strengths.

Old games upscaled look crisp, but you lose some of the original artistic vision, built around the technical limitations of the original console.

Breath of the a Wild is gorgeous at 30fps and 900p. I think that it's neat that we get a 4k upscaled version via emulation, but that's never going to be the "definitive" version, just like a colorized black and white movie looks cool, but will never be the choice of cinephiles.

People emulate scanlines because those old games look absolutely atrocious on fixed resolution displays without them. If you were old enough to remember how they looked on CRT, shaders are mandatory if you want the games looking anything like you remember. Pixel art was built around the limations of the CRT display. Games look completely different and far uglier when you remove all the texture that CRT scanlines provided.

The 3D era is different. Increasing the resolution and getting rid of terrible jaggies doesn't make the games look awful, it brings out their true potential and removes hardware limitations that handicapped them. The exact opposite issues that old games have.

EDIT: And to avoid this getting into a sematics arugment, let's revist some forum threads on something like Zelda: Twilight Princess HD for Wii U. I don't think you'll find any group of people advocating that they thought the Wii U version was inferior looking to the Wii version. It was basically unanimous that the Wii U version was far superior looking. Just like when Nintendo eventually has a machine powerful enough to render BotW at 4k, everyone will be in agreement that that version looks superior to the Switch version... cause they just are.

MopDog · Dec 30, 2017

Lmao

I can't believe there's even a debate. The game looks wonderful with higher framerate and resolution. So much so that it's compelling me to replay it even though I got bored of the game after 30 hours. At least part of the lost appeal for me was the struggling tech.

SpokkX · Dec 30, 2017

How is the shader cache now? Fills up the ram still even on 16gb? Still hard to get a 100% cache so it will lock up now and theb?

gnadenlos · Dec 30, 2017

beeeats said:
This is an utterly bizarre comparison. Why did they up the resolution on the Switch vs. the Wii U? Because they could. If the hardware had the capability they'd absolutely choose to render at 1080p or even higher. Artistic vision has nothing to do with it.

The problem is that the game was not optimized for 4k60. I like my PC (980ti), but after playing 200+ hours of BOTW on Switch the game doesn't feel right on those CEMU videos. Sure the graphics look more highres and 60fps improves the blur, but something looks wrong.

Patch13 · Dec 30, 2017

beeeats said:
This is an utterly bizarre comparison. Why did they up the resolution on the Switch vs. the Wii U? Because they could. If the hardware had the capability they'd absolutely choose to render at 1080p or even higher. Artistic vision has nothing to do with it.

Fair point. There's a bit of forwards compatibility baked into the game, maybe for a Switch+. But it's not built for 60fps or 4k, and it's going to run a bit wonkily, and look a bit upscaled in an emulator when run at that frame rate and resolution. Again, neat if you really must have 60fps and native resolution on a fancy TV, but I'd rather have accurate physics and visuals than a specific framerate or resolution.

Red said:
No cinephile is going to look for the VHS version of that black and white movie when a better format is available.

Of course they wouldn't, because the original movie was meant to be printed and projected on film, and DVD or Blu Ray are a bit better at capturing that than VHS. That's why I used colorizing as my analogy -- adding something that wasn't there originally, rather than presenting what's there in a cleaner format.

Tuco Benedicto Pacifico said:
That's definitely NOT a school of thought everyone embraces, so it's great to have options.
And "original artistic visions" are often overrated in their importance, especially when they are dictated more by technological restrictions than genuine desire to settle for a specific standard.

I also don't adhere on the [often related] school of thought that a creator has right to decide how his product should be enjoyed, once it's out in the open.

I definitely don't think that the creator gets to dictate things. But it's also silly to see people slap a 60 fps patch in something and claim that it's better. It's like people who turn on motion plus on their TV and believe they are getting a better experience out of their movies. Oof.

Tuco Benedicto Pacifico · Dec 30, 2017

gnadenlos said:
The problem is that the game was not optimized for 4k60. I like my PC (980ti), but after playing 200+ hours of BOTW on Switch the game doesn't feel right on those CEMU videos. Sure the graphics look more highres and 60fps improves the blur, but something looks wrong.

Well, sure. It doesn't feel "right". It feels AMAZING.
That's why almost anyone with capable hardware is trying to run it at 60 fps despise how the option to lock it at 30 is there.

gfxtwin · Dec 30, 2017

MopDog said:
Lmao

I can't believe there's even a debate. The game looks wonderful with higher framerate and resolution. So much so that it's compelling me to replay it even though I got bored of the game after 30 hours. At least part of the lost appeal for me was the struggling tech.

Last I checked, the CEMU version was crashing randomly though. If that hasn't been fixed the Switch version is probably still preferable.

Tuco Benedicto Pacifico · Dec 30, 2017

gfxtwin said:
Last I checked, the CEMU version was crashing randomly though. If that hasn't been fixed the Switch version is probably still preferable.

It has been fixed something like 3-4 months ago.

I'd like to point out how this thread is essentially turning in "People with no first-hand experience trying to debate how CEMU does work with people who actually use it on a regular basis".

Kaako · Dec 30, 2017

gnadenlos said:
The problem is that the game was not optimized for 4k60. I like my PC (980ti), but after playing 200+ hours of BOTW on Switch the game doesn't feel right on those CEMU videos. Sure the graphics look more highres and 60fps improves the blur, but something looks wrong.

You say "wrong," I say proper. The game now looks much more proper and undeniably feels better to play as well.

rodrigolfp · Dec 30, 2017

gfxtwin said:
Last I checked, the CEMU version was crashing randomly though. If that hasn't been fixed the Switch version is probably still preferable.

Crashes are very, very rare for a while already.

Tuco Benedicto Pacifico · Dec 30, 2017

rodrigolfp said:
Crashes are very, very rare for a while already.

I didn't have one for months, since they fixed the issue.
But to be fair I've experienced two again since 1.11.3 was released a week ago, most likely because of the triple core recompiler being highly experimental and so potentially unstable.

beeeats · Dec 30, 2017

Patch13 said:
Fair point. There's a bit of forwards compatibility baked into the game, maybe for a Switch+. But it's not built for 60fps or 4k, and it's going to run a bit wonkily, and look a bit upscaled in an emulator when run at that frame rate and resolution. Again, neat if you really must have 60fps and native resolution on a fancy TV, but I'd rather have accurate physics and visuals than a specific framerate or resolution.

I definitely don't think that the creator gets to dictate things. But it's also silly to see people slap a 60 fps patch in something and claim that it's better. It's like people who turn on motion plus on their TV and believe they are getting a better experience out of their movies. Oof.

Again I'm not really getting these comparisons. When you render above 900p nothing is being 'upscaled'. There's no interpolation or missing information at play here. It's just simply outputting to a higher resolution, offering more visual clarity, the removal of aliasing and shimmering - even the stylised look of the assets lend themselves incredibly well to higher resolutions. It's a 3d graphics engine. It's ultimately 'built' for whatever the hardware can handle. That's 720p on the Wii U, 900p on the switch, and whatever you want on a PC.

But you are right about one thing - playing at above 30fps in BOTW is still far from ideal. It feels great to play but does result in some issues that have been talked about in the thread. And a lot of the examples of very high frame rates are a result of turning off a particular setting within CEMU which breaks a whole host of things not limited to the AI, pop-in, the camera, physics and even causes some crashes. Not a good tradeoff.

Fortunately you always have to option to limit the framerate to 30fps and just enjoy the game with better visuals, which is what I do.

rodrigolfp · Dec 30, 2017

Tuco Benedicto Pacifico said:
I didn't have one for months, since they fixed the issue.
But to be fair I've experienced two again since 1.11.3 was released a week ago, most likely because of the triple core recompiler being highly experimental and so potentially unstable.

I can't finish the final trial of the master sword because there is always a random crash there (1.11.2).

Hubologist · Dec 30, 2017

I've been waiting for this moment. Now I can see what all the fuss was all about, in glorious 4K.

SunBroDave · Dec 30, 2017

Patch13 said:
Fair point. There's a bit of forwards compatibility baked into the game, maybe for a Switch+. But it's not built for 60fps or 4k, and it's going to run a bit wonkily, and look a bit upscaled in an emulator when run at that frame rate and resolution. Again, neat if you really must have 60fps and native resolution on a fancy TV, but I'd rather have accurate physics and visuals than a specific framerate or resolution.

Of course they wouldn't, because the original movie was meant to be printed and projected on film, and DVD or Blu Ray are a bit better at capturing that than VHS. That's why I used colorizing as my analogy -- adding something that wasn't there originally, rather than presenting what's there in a cleaner format.

I definitely don't think that the creator gets to dictate things. But it's also silly to see people slap a 60 fps patch in something and claim that it's better. It's like people who turn on motion plus on their TV and believe they are getting a better experience out of their movies. Oof.

Higher framerates are superior, for a number of objective reasons, than lower framerates. Same thing with resolution. These are not debatable, and if you think they are, you're terribly misinformed and should abstain from further discussion on the topic.

BernardoOne · Dec 30, 2017

dan2026 said:
I hate how every little bit of effort is pumped into getting Zelda to run amazingly yet a ton of other wii u games barely function on the emulator.

Shows how little you've looked into the development of this emulator. Like you literally did no research.

Asbsand · Dec 30, 2017

I wonder if the price-increase between Wii U and that maxed-out pc rig you need for this is proportional to the increase in IQ and framerate boosting.

berryman69 · Dec 30, 2017

Patch13 said:
On the other hand, there's a school of thought that emulates scan lines in old games, or even digs up old analogue SD TVs for authenticity. And Hollywood spends a lot of money adding stimulated film grain into digitally shot movies. The flaws of a medium can be strengths.

Old games upscaled look crisp, but you lose some of the original artistic vision, built around the technical limitations of the original console.

Breath of the a Wild is gorgeous at 30fps and 900p. I think that it's neat that we get a 4k upscaled version via emulation, but that's never going to be the "definitive" version, just like a colorized black and white movie looks cool, but will never be the choice of cinephiles.

BOTW is not gorgeous at 900p IMO. It's jaggy and mushy as hell. I have not played a 900p game in years, and have no plans to ever again. And your comparison is completely flawed. Resolution is a parameter of a game that is always wanted when it can be had. It's like 4K vs bluray. There is absolutely nothing built in BOTW that is original artistic vision lol. The Switch simply cannot run the game any higher. I suppose you think FPS drops and extremely poor draw distance and LODs are also amazing.

CEMU is also not 4K upscaled. It's 4K native. And the game looks a load better because of it.

Tuco Benedicto Pacifico said:
It has been fixed something like 3-4 months ago.

I'd like to point out how this thread is essentially turning in "People with no first-hand experience trying to debate how CEMU does work with people who actually use it on a regular basis".

To be honest some posts in this thread read like I don't have a PC, but I wish I did. I think only a certain sect of Nintendo fans possibly could argue in favor of 900p over 4K. I just don't get it. I love my Nintendo games in 4K. Mario Galaxy 2 at 4K with improvements in Dolphin versus Wii level resolution lol?

TheMadTitan · Dec 30, 2017

Simply Austin has a video testing the latest Cemu update with a bunch of games. It's a half hour video though, so fair warning.

Damaniel · Dec 30, 2017

As a (former) Patreon supporter, I'm actually disappointed that Cemu has become a BOTW emulator rather than a proper Wii U emulator. I know that BOTW support is what brings the Patreon money in, but almost every release since the game came out makes changes to improve the experience for it alone at the expense of every other game. It's great for BOTW fans, but it sucks for people like me who've been holding out to play other games (like Xenoblade Chronicles X) until Cemu gets to the point where it runs them correctly.

Kaako · Dec 30, 2017

Might have to wait for the next release or two for that stable and much needed multi-core support. I'm debating to play in a week or wait for their next proper multi-core support update release...

TheMadTitan · Dec 30, 2017

Damaniel said:
As a (former) Patreon supporter, I'm actually disappointed that Cemu has become a BOTW emulator rather than a proper Wii U emulator. I know that BOTW support is what brings the Patreon money in, but almost every release since the game came out makes changes to improve the experience for it alone at the expense of every other game. It's great for BOTW fans, but it sucks for people like me who've been holding out to play other games (like Xenoblade Chronicles X) until Cemu gets to the point where it runs them correctly.

The video I posted right above your post has Xenoblade at a near locked 30 fps.

BernardoOne · Dec 30, 2017

Damaniel said:
As a (former) Patreon supporter, I'm actually disappointed that Cemu has become a BOTW emulator rather than a proper Wii U emulator. I know that BOTW support is what brings the Patreon money in, but almost every release since the game came out makes changes to improve the experience for it alone at the expense of every other game. It's great for BOTW fans, but it sucks for people like me who've been holding out to play other games (like Xenoblade Chronicles X) until Cemu gets to the point where it runs them correctly.

This is vastly incorrect. Every version of CEMU had brouhht several improvements to a wide array of games. Hell, the newest update brings a emulator wide improvemment that brings major performance gains to basically every title that rubs.
Many of the BOTW specific stuff that makes it as good today isnt even made by the devs, but rather user modifications likd FPS++

XrossExam · Dec 30, 2017

Might have to support to play Bayonetta 2 again before the Switch version drops.

Dalto11 · Dec 30, 2017

Okay, so I did everything I could think to do. Game is up to date. I followed the Cemu setup guide in this video - minus the 1440p graphics pack:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR7BA3WpWd4

And yet, I still drop below 30 fps in the intro area. I'll shoot up to 40 fps if I talk to the Old Man. But I cannot hit 60 fps outside of menus. I have an i7-6700k at 4.5 GHz, a 4GB RX 470 OC, and 32 GB of DDR4 at 2400MHz. From seeing some of the rigs that hit 60 FPS I don't get why I can't hit it. Anyone have any ideas?

MagnesG · Dec 30, 2017

At the end the inevitable will happen, some (majority of) people would just play pirates on PC, getting cheats and mods while not experiencing the game first on the console.

Might be good news I guess for those nearing 5k CEMU Patreoners. 5K. And that's assuming people really bought the game.
Now can't really blame Nintendo or every other company for their certain limited development (in response to piracy), with them being upset having no control of their products.

Sorry I perfectly understand the situation and all the hassle that comes with it, but sometimes I wonder how could people be so shameless smh... > This is not directed to people legally playing the game.

Edit: I apologize for the rant. Have fun guys with your BOTW copy.

SunBroDave · Dec 30, 2017

Asbsand said:
I wonder if the price-increase between Wii U and that maxed-out pc rig you need for this is proportional to the increase in IQ and framerate boosting.

You don't need a "maxed-out pc rig" to run BOTW better than the Wii U or Switch. Those aren't exactly high hurdles to clear.

Einherjer · Dec 30, 2017

MagnesG said:
At the end the inevitable will happen, some (majority of) people would just play pirates on PC, getting cheats and mods while not experiencing the game first on the console.

Might be good news I guess for those nearing 5k CEMU Patreoners. 5K. And that's assuming people really bought the game.
Now can't really blame Nintendo or every other company for their certain limited development (in response to piracy), with them being upset having no control of their products.

Sorry I perfectly understand the situation and all the hassle that comes with it, but sometimes I wonder how could people be so shameless smh... > This is not directed to people legally playing the game.

Oh c'mon rly? Do we really need to have this stupid discussion every single time...

TheMadTitan · Dec 30, 2017

Dalto11 said:
Okay, so I did everything I could think to do. Game is up to date. I followed the Cemu setup guide in this video - minus the 1440p graphics pack:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR7BA3WpWd4

And yet, I still drop below 30 fps in the intro area. I'll shoot up to 40 fps if I talk to the Old Man. But I cannot hit 60 fps outside of menus. I have an i7-6700k at 4.5 GHz, a 4GB RX 470 OC, and 32 GB of DDR4 at 2400MHz. From seeing some of the rigs that hit 60 FPS I don't get why I can't hit it. Anyone have any ideas?

I'm pretty sure you're going to need Cemuhook and FPS++ if you don't have those already.

Patch13 · Dec 30, 2017

SunBroDave said:
Higher framerates are superior, for a number of objective reasons, than lower framerates. Same thing with resolution. These are not debatable, and if you think they are, you're terribly misinformed and should abstain from further discussion on the topic.

If you're building a game from scratch, and all other things being equal, sure, a high framerate is better. But if you're talking about a game that has already been made with a locked framerate, then hacking the game to get a higher fps isn't necessarily a great idea. Unless you have access to the source, and have the budget and time to fix the issues, of course.

Tuco Benedicto Pacifico · Dec 30, 2017

TheMadTitan said:
I'm pretty sure you're going to need Cemuhook and FPS++ if you don't have those already.

That would be my guess, since I get far better performances of what he claims at 1440p with a far lesser system.

Then again, if that's the case it would mean he really wasn't that good at following the instructions in the video he linked.

Akronis · Dec 30, 2017

Patch13 said:
If you're building a game from scratch, and all other things being equal, sure, a high framerate is better. But if you're talking about a game that has already been made with a locked framerate, then hacking the game to get a higher fps isn't necessarily a great idea. Unless you have access to the source, and have the budget and time to fix the issues, of course.

The guy that made FPS++ didn't have access to the source and still made it work.

It's horribly bad practice to not separate the render and game loop. Still happens on a lot of console games unfortunately.

Einherjer · Dec 30, 2017

True there are still some annoying bugs over 30 fps, i personally also use the 30 fps cap pack but mostly cause i don't get stable 60 fps with GX2DrawDone() and i really can't play without it.

So, BOTW is kinda insane on CEMU these days.

Game Developer

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account

Use of alt account

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account

Prophet of Regret - Lizard Daddy

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account