• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Hat22

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,652
Canada
I don't see how the anime industry is being handicapped. It's edginess and ecchiness is actually what keeps it alive and it is central to what anime is. Anime exists as a counter culture to the extremely socially conservative and tradition-obsessed culture that is Japan. It challenges everything and takes taboos and ideals and pushes them to their extreme and part of that has always been celebrating sex and perversion.

You can argue about certain studios or there being more fanservicy shows but the industry as a whole is doing fine

It's strange how people think the most of the shows that people actually watch are haram shows.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,276
I really want to emphatically recommend Houseki no Kuni. It might be slightly off-putting at first blush due to the fact that it's a CG anime (yes, really), but it's an extraordinarily well-executed CG anime with a cast of 100% genderless (like, literally, they have no concept of gender) gem people who are all shockingly endearing. The main character goes through a ton of character growth in the space of 12 episodes and it's chock full of philosophical musings on the nature of life and existence.

I really can't recommend it enough. I don't even need to put a caveat on that recommendation like I do with so many other series. Like, straight-up, just go watch it. You won't regret it.
I also really enjoyed Houseki no Kuni and would recommend it. It's really different, just like Urahara was this season.
 
Oct 27, 2017
488
It's strange how people think the most of the shows that people actually watch are harem shows.
This has been a thing for as long as anime has been a thing, and it really is an interesting phenomenon. I tend to blame the fact that it's easy to confuse harem shows for shows that have a primarily female cast that aren't lusting after a self-insert but DO exist to pander to the theoretical male viewer, or for shows that happen to have a primarily female cast and don't do any of that and are just like, about work or serious character drama or whatever.

Visually speaking--and I'm talking just the absolute surface level here, there's not all that much separating (to use things from a roughly similar time period that are DRASTICALLY different) Aria from Love Hina.

Learning to parse what anime is the thing you're actually looking for is an extremely complicated skill cultivated over a long time period. The difference is that many of us cultivated it unconsciously during childhood and don't even necessarily recognize that we're doing it or how.

Much like gaming it's not dissimilar to a language, and expecting people to understand it often works out about as well as expecting your 84 year old grandfather to figure out how to simultaneously use two analog sticks to control both a character and the camera in a 3D space at once.
 

caff!!!

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,029
I personally find a lot of the character designs trying to crank up the risque to 12 really unappealing and not sexy. too many bad cooks trying to make a stew, and all

To go back to mentioning anime recommendations, as long as we're mentioning anime:
Aria (series)
can double this, very good and it's on crunchy so no more having to find expensive disks or pirating the show

other good slice of life:
Hidamari Sketch
Cat God (on crunchy, does have a very eh designed character though)
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,486
I really want to emphatically recommend Houseki no Kuni. It might be slightly off-putting at first blush due to the fact that it's a CG anime (yes, really), but it's an extraordinarily well-executed CG anime with a cast of 100% genderless (like, literally, they have no concept of gender) gem people who are all shockingly endearing. The main character goes through a ton of character growth in the space of 12 episodes and it's chock full of philosophical musings on the nature of life and existence.

I really can't recommend it enough. I don't even need to put a caveat on that recommendation like I do with so many other series. Like, straight-up, just go watch it. You won't regret it.
It (also known as Land of the Lustrous) is my AOTY this year. It ain't perfect, including in ways I'm sure I don't understand, but I sure do love it a lot.
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,969
A sex scene like that in Wolfenstein is communicating something different about the characters and the game's framing of them then the costumes of characters like those in Xenoblade, or a Neptunia game, or anything like that. We can argue about "appropriateness" until the cows come home but the truth is that they're not really comparable in terms of function

This has been a thing for as long as anime has been a thing, and it really is an interesting phenomenon. I tend to blame the fact that it's easy to confuse harem shows for shows that have a primarily female cast that aren't lusting after a self-insert but DO exist to pander to the theoretical male viewer, or for shows that happen to have a primarily female cast and don't do any of that and are just like, about work or serious character drama or whatever.
I mean, its not exactly a harem show in the traditional sense but by far the most consistent anime I've seen referenced across my Twitter feed in recent months is Blend S, and its not even close, which falls pretty well into that second category.
 

PtM

Banned
Dec 7, 2017
3,582
A sex scene like that in Wolfenstein is communicating something different about the characters and the game's framing of them then the costumes of characters like those in Xenoblade, or a Neptunia game, or anything like that. We can argue about "appropriateness" until the cows come home but the truth is that they're not really comparable in terms of function
Isn't that the point?
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,427
I don't see how the anime industry is being handicapped. It's edginess and ecchiness is actually what keeps it alive and it is central to what anime is. Anime exists as a counter culture to the extremely socially conservative and tradition-obsessed culture that is Japan. It challenges everything and takes taboos and ideals and pushes them to their extreme and part of that has always been celebrating sex and perversion.

This would mean something if it almost always wasn't done extremely poorly.

We need more Tatami Galaxy and less High School DxD. But you can't sell titty statues of Tatami Galaxy...
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,486
This would mean something if it almost always wasn't done extremely poorly.

We need more Tatami Galaxy and less High School DxD. But you can't sell titty statues of Tatami Galaxy...
I dunno what you're saying. What's not counter-culture about sexualizing high school girls? I'll show you, socially conservative Japan! You can't stop me from fetishizing teenagers!

Eurgh.

There's a lot of good anime, and good things like what you're saying in anime, Hat22, but don't act like it's the majority. "Pushing the boundaries" doesn't mean selling hundred dollar statues of some teenager in a tight bikini half falling off.
 
Oct 27, 2017
488
A sex scene like that in Wolfenstein is communicating something different about the characters and the game's framing of them then the costumes of characters like those in Xenoblade, or a Neptunia game, or anything like that. We can argue about "appropriateness" until the cows come home but the truth is that they're not really comparable in terms of function


I mean, its not exactly a harem show in the traditional sense but by far the most consistent anime I've seen referenced across my Twitter feed in recent months is Blend S, and its not even close
Blend S is very much one of those second category of shows that isn't technically a harem but does some of what harems do. It, itself is adapted from a 4-koma which puts it in a similar theoretical directorial space to something like the much older Azumanga Daioh!, but what the director chooses to do with the camera and the like is kind of removed from its origins, which puts it squarely in that second category.

It's also a meme show--like, the opening credits were literally a meme, so it kinda exploded in popularity on the meme wave, which means it's not especially surprising that you saw it everywhere.

IT doesn't look anything like Aria or Love Hina, but that's because fifteen years separate them.

It DOES, however, look similar to Love Live!, which is a contemporary of the third class of show (regardless of what secondary target demographics choose to do with it), does gangbusters with the tweenage female audience, and is very much just a show about a group of girls aspiring to succeed in... a sanitized, safer version of a really toxic industry that the show glorifies super heavily, but that's not the point here.

Anime has an image problem. That was my point here. Found it again.
 
Last edited:

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,276
Visually speaking--and I'm talking just the absolute surface level here, there's not all that much separating (to use things from a roughly similar time period that are DRASTICALLY different) Aria from Love Hina.
I disagree? I think there's plenty separating these two shows, even at the absolute surface level. Just a basic google image search of the two provides some pretty drastically different imagery. I will say that they are both much more anime in their presentation than like, say, Serial Experiments Lain, but that doesn't mean that at the surface level they share much, if anything, in common. Even the framing and presentation of characters is different.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
That's not everyone's attitude here.
Oh sure, but they also explicitly say so and I don't agree with them but I'd be willing to hear them out. And I'm certain most here don't have such a hard line on it. Of course there are people that would rely on more drastic measures, but this seems to be often attributed to people that aren't after something like that.
Self censorship is still censorship no matter how you slice it. I would call most people here entitled since they think devs from another country should make designs to meet the moral values they think they have, but that's just my take.
Yeah I explained that difference too. Steam won't release your game with certain sexual content, you need to censor your game if you want to sell it in Steam, self-censorship. If you don't want to alter your game, then you don't distribute your game in Steam or other storefronts that may not allow it. But you are still free to release and sell your games by other means, without anyone demanding/asking changes so the self-censorship is done voluntarily. Except of course if it would cross the line of legality in some way. People (consumer/gamers) give feedback and you listen (or don't), not self-censorship or otherwise.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
This has been a thing for as long as anime has been a thing, and it really is an interesting phenomenon. I tend to blame the fact that it's easy to confuse harem shows for shows that have a primarily female cast that aren't lusting after a self-insert but DO exist to pander to the theoretical male viewer, or for shows that happen to have a primarily female cast and don't do any of that and are just like, about work or serious character drama or whatever.

Visually speaking--and I'm talking just the absolute surface level here, there's not all that much separating (to use things from a roughly similar time period that are DRASTICALLY different) Aria from Love Hina.

Learning to parse what anime is the thing you're actually looking for is an extremely complicated skill cultivated over a long time period. The difference is that many of us cultivated it unconsciously during childhood and don't even necessarily recognize that we're doing it or how.

Much like gaming it's not dissimilar to a language, and expecting people to understand it often works out about as well as expecting your 84 year old grandfather to figure out how to simultaneously use two analog sticks to control both a character and the camera in a 3D space at once.

What? Aria and Love Hina are pretty different in their original manga and the anime adaptation with their artstyle and designs. And that without going to the genre of them..
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
I feel like this thread is actually full of anime experts.
I've only seen a small handful of shows, but they were all pretty good, mostly because they were specifically recommended by friends years back.

Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, Serial Experiments Lain, Ghost in the Shell.

Is there anything being made today at all like these? Stuff that's not full of pandering.
I think people told me Evangelion is similar and not panderland, so maybe that's what I should check out.

Depends. I wouldn't call the original Evangelion anime fanservicey (there's nude scenes, but most of them you wouldn't sexualize unless you were a huge weirdo), but the remake movies have plenty of it. And most Evangelion merchandise is based around sexualizing its cast of 14 year old female characters, so...

watch mob psycho 100

Just good, non-fanservicey stuff in general?

- A Silent Voice (movie)
- Your Name (movie)
- Ping Pong The Animation
- Mob Psycho 100
- One Punch Man
- Madoka Magica
- Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, especially the movie
- Beck
- Nichijou
- Space Dandy's fun, has some fanservice
- Space Patrol Luluco (full of fanservice, but not the usual kind)
- Steins;Gate
- Kids on the Slope

I'll leave it there, before the list gets even longer.

omfg did you really call Haruhi Suzumiya "non-fanservicey"
 

Majukun

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,542
I dunno about deleting fanservice from the world but I sure wish you'd delete your account.
wow
Whilst there are a lot of merits in discussing the relationship between gaming and violence, it occasionally feels as if certain topics are used as a shield to condone other issues being discussed.

Kinda makes me sad that we are at page 168 (50ppp) and still women have to fight tooth and nail to basically say that though we do enjoy gaming, we do find that there are a lot to be desired with some aspects of said media. Apparently stating that we would like to change some artistic contents is not as tolerable as asking to change framerate per second or additional weapons or balancing between existing classes. Because if the developer fixes balancing issues in any game, that's censorship, right?
thing is, unbalance in game mechanics is something nobody wants, same for worse frame rate and such.

sexy character design is something that pander to a certain demographic that likes it and doesn't want it to go away just because other people don't like it.

also, no, I would not say that woman have to fight to get a voice on restera, but if you want to get your voice heard in a forum, you must be ready to defend it and discuss it, that's what a forum is. So it's natural that if one opens a thread in favor of something, people that are not in favor of it would be also part of it.

as long as everyone remains civil, don't really see the problem.
 
Last edited:

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
omfg did you really call Haruhi Suzumiya "non-fanservicey"

It is fanservicey? I've been meaning to watch it for a while since everyone seems to love it. Aren't most characters pre-teens? Ugh.

thing is, unbalance in game mechanics is something nobody wants, same for worse frame rate and such.

Not really true. There are people that want 60 FPS even at the cost of image quality, and there are people that want the best possible image quality even if it means 30 FPS because they can't tell the difference. The point is that whenever these people argue about it, you don't see the same defensiveness and shitty arguments about "censorship".

Hell, at this point I'm used to people going into indie games and saying "I'm sick of this 8-bit aesthetic, indie games should stop using it" which is demanding an infinitely bigger change to suit their tastes. And yet I've never once counter it with "censorship!", because for some reason people are capable of rational thought in these cases and realize the difference between criticism and censorship, but not when it's about titties.
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
It is fanservicey? I've been meaning to watch it for a while since everyone seems to love it. Aren't most characters pre-teens? Ugh.

I haven't watched it in years, but I used to be a big fan (mostly because I was a dumb teen and it was popular which I thought meant it was good so I forced myself to like it), watched both seasons of the anime as well as the movie and I read most of the novels.
It. Is. Gross. Mikuru, one of the main characters, is constantly being sexually harassed by the titular character for the sake of both fanservice and "humor", and she's forced into several humiliating outfits and situations because why the fuck not. The novels are even worse about it since they're in first person from the male protagonist's perspective, and he basically goes to great lengths to describe how much he wants to fuck Mikuru, in every. single. book. And while I wouldn't outright call it a harem series, there's definitely this undertone of "I wonder what cute girl the male protagonist is gonna end up with!!".

As far as I remember the characters are all in the 15-16 age range.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I haven't watched it in years, but I used to be a big fan (mostly because I was a dumb teen and it was popular which I thought meant it was good so I forced myself to like it), watched both seasons of the anime as well as the movie and I read most of the novels.
It. Is. Gross. Mikuru, one of the main characters, is constantly being sexually harassed by the titular character for the sake of both fanservice and "humor", and she's forced into several humiliating outfits and situations because why the fuck not. The novels are even worse about it since they're in first person from the male protagonist's perspective, and he basically goes to great lengths to describe how much he wants to fuck Mikuru, in every. single. book. And while I wouldn't outright call it a harem series, there's definitely this undertone of "I wonder what cute girl the male protagonist is gonna end up with!!".

As far as I remember the characters are all in the 15-16 age range.

Well that's one crossed off the list then. I never have a huge drive to watch it and it was mostly a "wonder what the fuss is about", so no big loss. Thanks for the writeup!
 

petran79

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,025
Greece
I don't see how the anime industry is being handicapped. It's edginess and ecchiness is actually what keeps it alive and it is central to what anime is. Anime exists as a counter culture to the extremely socially conservative and tradition-obsessed culture that is Japan. It challenges everything and takes taboos and ideals and pushes them to their extreme and part of that has always been celebrating sex and perversion.

It's strange how people think the most of the shows that people actually watch are haram shows.

That is indeed a feature prevalent in the 70s and 80s shows too. It is just that due to the lack of digital tools and deviantart they had to invest more in animantion for those OVAs.
No way they'd produce a harem show with underage girls, a pervert pilot and his robot, a bunnygirl computer AI, a lolicon pirate captain, a flying cat and a giant lizard like this. Today they'd totally ruin it, especially with character design, making it even creepier perhaps

89299.jpg
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,483
Just good, non-fanservicey stuff in general?

- A Silent Voice (movie)
- Your Name (movie)
- Ping Pong The Animation
- Mob Psycho 100
- One Punch Man
- Madoka Magica
- Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, especially the movie
- Beck
- Nichijou
- Space Dandy's fun, has some fanservice
- Space Patrol Luluco (full of fanservice, but not the usual kind)
- Steins;Gate
- Kids on the Slope

I'll leave it there, before the list gets even longer.
I wouldn't say Steins;Gate is devoid of fanservice.
 

Deleted member 18021

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,000
I haven't watched it in years, but I used to be a big fan (mostly because I was a dumb teen and it was popular which I thought meant it was good so I forced myself to like it), watched both seasons of the anime as well as the movie and I read most of the novels.
It. Is. Gross. Mikuru, one of the main characters, is constantly being sexually harassed by the titular character for the sake of both fanservice and "humor", and she's forced into several humiliating outfits and situations because why the fuck not. The novels are even worse about it since they're in first person from the male protagonist's perspective, and he basically goes to great lengths to describe how much he wants to fuck Mikuru, in every. single. book. And while I wouldn't outright call it a harem series, there's definitely this undertone of "I wonder what cute girl the male protagonist is gonna end up with!!".

As far as I remember the characters are all in the 15-16 age range.

I rewatched parts of it recently, and I felt the same way. I used to be a fan, but wow I sure can't enjoy this now.

To elaborate a bit on Mikuru: her introduction is Haruhi essentially dragging her from her classroom and forcing her into her club because she has large breasts. Haruhi then uses her as blackmail to scam a computer off the computer club (Let's push the president on top of her and take pictures, but hey, why stop there? let's claim the entire club was going to gang-bang her) which she is, of course, visibly traumatized by. That very same episode also has Haruhi forcibly undressing Mikuru (in front of Kyon [the male protagonist], no less, at least at first) so she can put Mikuru in a bunny suit in order to hand out fliers in front of the school. This all culminates in the movie they make a bunch of episodes later, where Kyon finally puts his foot down about how not okay this all is after they get Mikuru drunk to make her more submissive in the kissing scene. Mikuru ends up putting up with all of this because she's resigned herself to it as "part of her mission".

The later novels have Haruhi treat Mikuru more or less like an actual human, but yeaaaah.
 

Llyrwenne

Hopes and Dreams SAVE the World
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,209
Hat22 I would appreciate it if you'd be willing to elaborate on the statement you made on criticism of violence in videogames. You very much seemed to imply that Jack Thompson was the logical conclusion to criticism of violence in videogames.
Do you really believe that criticism of violence in videogames inevitably leads to / is equal to wanting to ban violent games?
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
I rewatched parts of it recently, and I felt the same way. I used to be a fan, but wow I sure can't enjoy this now.

To elaborate a bit on Mikuru: her introduction is Haruhi essentially dragging her from her classroom and forcing her into her club because she has large breasts. Haruhi then uses her as blackmail to scam a computer off the computer club (Let's push the president on top of her and take pictures, but hey, why stop there? let's claim the entire club was going to gang-bang her) which she is, of course, visibly traumatized by. That very same episode also has Haruhi forcibly undressing Mikuru (in front of Kyon [the male protagonist], no less, at least at first) so she can put Mikuru in a bunny suit in order to hand out fliers in front of the school. This all culminates in the movie they make a bunch of episodes later, where Kyon finally puts his foot down about how not okay this all is after they get Mikuru drunk to make her more submissive in the kissing scene. Mikuru ends up putting up with all of this because she's resigned herself to it as "part of her mission".

The later novels have Haruhi treat Mikuru more or less like an actual human, but yeaaaah.

Hell, doesn't Kyon mostly try to stop the kissing scene just because he's jealous?

God, Haruhi is a trash series, lol
 
Oct 27, 2017
488
I disagree? I think there's plenty separating these two shows, even at the absolute surface level. Just a basic google image search of the two provides some pretty drastically different imagery. I will say that they are both much more anime in their presentation than like, say, Serial Experiments Lain, but that doesn't mean that at the surface level they share much, if anything, in common. Even the framing and presentation of characters is different.
What? Aria and Love Hina are pretty different in their original manga and the anime adaptation with their artstyle and designs. And that without going to the genre of them..
This is exactly what I mean, for the record, and disagreement is an expected response from anyone who's actually seen any amount of anime and manga and has been inducted into the visual tropes of different demographics and subgenres. You speak the language. And yes, I picked an extreme example and if you go so far as even just doing a cursory google search you're going to find enough completely placid promo art and stills from Aria to make it clear that it has drastically different tone and nature than Love Hina, with its emphasis on fanservice poses and outfits. The fact that such an extreme assertion would make you recoil is kind of my point though. I don't think there's all that much in common between Kozue Amano and Ken Akamatsu's intentions or design sense as the original manga are concerned. That should be a given.

But if you put the animation design of Naru next to the animation design of Akari, all you have are two teenage-ish looking cartoon girls with eyes roughly the same size, hair roughly the same level of outlandish (if anything Akari's is worse), wearing reasonable clothing. Akari's features are a bit softer than Naru's in the animation designs, sure, and to us the slit on Akari's dress is probably a lot more tasteful looking than Naru's miniskirt with zettai ryouiki--but both of their outfits unreasonably conform to their figure, especially their busts--there's not that much different going on if you don't know what zettai ryouiki tends to be most common in the visual design for.

You can put the crux of this recurring and incredibly apparent dilemma on the neophyte viewer to actually do the right amount of research into what they're watching, but after a couple of misfires because they don't speak the language well enough to tell the difference, you're going to wind up with someone leaving the hobby with a pretty negative perception of what the medium looks like. You see it all the time when people try to do this blind without anyone to help them curate.

I've seen people link AniChart to exhibit the sheer amount of variety in a given season before, and let me tell you right now the people who don't know much about anime are not seeing the same thing you are when they look at that website. There are a LOT of cartoon girls with saucer eyes and outlandish hair on that page, and how are they to know which ones the camera's going to creep on mercilessly and which ones are going to be treated as completely autonomous, respected individuals?

And that's before you even get into not knowing individual designers or studio house styles to help curate, or the visual tropes specific to the medium (which are often very different from western media and EXTREMELY off-putting to those not inducted). Try explaining to someone who doesn't know the language why they should be wary that Darling in the Franxx is probably going to cross more lines than Karakai Jouzu no Takagi-san by next march based on those thumbnails and synopses.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 18021

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,000
Hell, doesn't Kyon mostly try to stop the kissing scene just because he's jealous?

God, Haruhi is a trash series, lol

Yeah, at least partially, lol. It's hard not to think that he probably wouldn't have protested nearly as much if he were the one kissing her. The scene does at least do it's best to concentrate on just how much of a garbage person Haruhi is, to the point that you were probably rooting for Kyon to actually punch her. Haruhi had some potential, but it's all squandered (the last three volumes [and let's be honest, after six years on "hiatus", it's dead as a door nail] just reek of desperation for a plot) and really hard to go back to now that I'm a good bit older and have much less tolerance for this shit.

Also forgot: Kyon had a wank folder filled with pictures of Mikuru in varying states of undress. So that's a thing.
 

Deleted member 5086

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,571
I saw someone recommended Kids on the Slope earlier and just wanted to second that. It's been a few years since I've watched it, but I really, really enjoyed it.
 

Manzoon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,197
East Coast, USA
Yeah, at least partially, lol. It's hard not to think that he probably wouldn't have protested nearly as much if he were the one kissing her. The scene does at least do it's best to concentrate on just how much of a garbage person Haruhi is, to the point that you were probably rooting for Kyon to actually punch her. Haruhi had some potential, but it's all squandered (the last three volumes [and let's be honest, after six years on "hiatus", it's dead as a door nail] just reek of desperation for a plot) and really hard to go back to now that I'm a good bit older and have much less tolerance for this shit.

Also forgot: Kyon had a wank folder filled with pictures of Mikuru in varying states of undress. So that's a thing.
Yeah, Haruhi was one of those shows that I watched and enjoyed after I'd been numbed by all the typical anime tropes over the years. At first glance it doesn't look nearly as problematic as other, similar shows, but it ends up having behaviour that is also not acceptable in it. It's a shame because the show quality from a writing, animation, and voice acting point was great and overarching plot was interesting, not sure where it went as I didn't keep up with it.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,276
This is exactly what I mean, for the record, and disagreement is an expected response from anyone who's actually seen any amount of anime and manga and has been inducted into the visual tropes of different demographics and subgenres. You speak the language. And yes, I picked an extreme example and if you go so far as even just doing a cursory google search you're going to find enough completely placid promo art and stills from Aria to make it clear that it has drastically different tone and nature than Love Hina, with its emphasis on fanservice poses and outfits. The fact that such an extreme assertion would make you recoil is kind of my point though. I don't think there's all that much in common between Kozue Amano and Ken Akamatsu's intentions or design sense as the original manga are concerned. That should be a given.

But if you put the animation design of Naru next to the animation design of Akari, all you have are two teenage-ish looking cartoon girls with eyes roughly the same size, hair roughly the same level of outlandish (if anything Akari's is worse), wearing reasonable clothing. Akari's features are a bit softer than Naru's in the animation designs, sure, and to us the slit on Akari's dress is probably a lot more tasteful looking than Naru's miniskirt with zettai ryouiki--but both of their outfits unreasonably conform to their figure, especially their busts--there's not that much different going on if you don't know what zettai ryouiki tends to be most common in the visual design for.
So, ok. The eyes and hair I can definitely see, but the costumes don't really unreasonably conform in either case (like, just based on cosplay as a point of comparison, I'd say the clothing conforms pretty much in the manner you would expect? Love Hina's got more problems in this regard). So uh... yeah, still not really seeing the point of comparison, or maybe just that it's a weird comparison to make when these sorts of comparisons could be made between just about any given anime with young women in them? Or is that the point, that there are certain features with extreme commonality among all anime and thus it's difficult to determine which ones aren't pandering?
 
Oct 27, 2017
488
So, ok. The eyes and hair I can definitely see, but the costumes don't really unreasonably conform in either case (like, just based on cosplay as a point of comparison, I'd say the clothing conforms pretty much in the manner you would expect?). So uh... yeah, still not really seeing the point of comparison, or maybe just that it's a weird comparison to make when these sorts of comparisons could be made between just about any given anime with young women in them? Or is that the point, that there are certain features with extreme commonality among all anime and thus it's difficult to determine which ones aren't pandering?
This one. I wanted to pick two things from the same time period that don't fall under the "moe era" that are about as drastically opposed as can be in more or less every feasible respect, because I thought it would best communicate the disconnect between how non-fans and those of us who are familiar with the medium perceive things.

For the record, Kozue Amano has it real bad for extremely tight, form-fitting long dresses. Like, she is a super, super big fan.

Speaking of moe, there's an essay in my head somewhere too about how the show most heavily criticized for propagating moe in the west has absolutely no traditional fanservice, was made by a heavily female trending staff, and has large female fanbases domestically, but that's a thing for another day.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 18021

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,000
Not gonna lie, the only series I really care about in this next season are Cardcaptor Sakura and Precure. I usually wait until after a season is over and then just binge the good stuff anyway.

I'm reminded of the time I signed up to Crunchyroll, expecting to find a bunch of classic shows from the 80s/90s. The reality was, instead, quite, quite traumatic.

For what it's worth, Crunchy's been making more of an effort to get older shows on the service recently. There's still big gaps, and probably always will be, but hey, you can watch Nadesico now.

Yeah, Haruhi was one of those shows that I watched and enjoyed after I'd been numbed by all the typical anime tropes over the years. At first glance it doesn't look nearly as problematic as other, similar shows, but it ends up having behaviour that is also not acceptable in it. It's a shame because the show quality from a writing, animation, and voice acting point was great and overarching plot was interesting, not sure where it went as I didn't keep up with it.

Tanigawa went straight for the wibbly wobbly timey-wimey nonsense.
People ask for more seasons, but honestly, the anime-only fans aren't missing much. Disappearance was the peak of the story.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,276
This one. I wanted to pick two things from the same time period that don't fall under the "moe era" that are about as drastically opposed as can be in more or less every feasible respect, because I thought it would best communicate the disconnect between how non-fans and those of us who are familiar with the medium perceive things.
I can see this, I think. I suppose if it's just the most common features, a lot of visual DNA is shared among all anime. You're right in that I don't typically look at eyes or hair, in spite of the fact that all the whacky colors and huge eye sizes are common and probably bigger indicators to those who have never watched a show before or the person who has just watched Cowboy Bebop and nothing else.

Even Serial Experiments Lain has the huge eyes and distinctive hair (technically the Zettai Ryouiki as well, though it's less prominent in promo materials).

For the record, Kozue Amano has it real bad for extremely tight, form-fitting long dresses. Like, she is a super, super big fan.
Yeah, that's true. Comes across much more strongly in Amanchu!
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,405
The English Wilderness
For what it's worth, Crunchy's been making more of an effort to get older shows on the service recently. There's still big gaps, and probably always will be, but hey, you can watch Nadesico now.

In the UK, though? Because the UK selection is terrible. One of the reasons I got an account was to watch Rose of the Versailles, only to find out that, nope, not available. Same with Galaxy Express 999 and Saint Seiya. Moe, though? Moe everywhere.
 

Deleted member 18021

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,000
In the UK, though? Because the UK selection is terrible. One of the reasons I got an account was to watch Rose of the Versailles, only to find out that, nope, not available. Same with Galaxy Express 999 and Saint Seiya. Moe, though? Moe everywhere.

Oh, lol.
Yeah, I've heard that the selection in the UK is pretty bad. Licensing is a nightmare, sadly, even before you factor in doing it worldwide.
Wanna watch Eva? Hope you like tracking down those $200 out of print DVDs. Thank you, ADV.
 

Yasumi

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,569
omfg did you really call Haruhi Suzumiya "non-fanservicey"
Haruhi does have some fanservice, but it's mostly concentrated around the first few episodes of the Melancholy arc, and the plot kicks into high gear from there. Kind of similar to the tonal shift in Steins;Gate. Worth it for Disappearance.
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
Haruhi does have some fanservice, but it's mostly concentrated around the first few episodes of the Melancholy arc, and the plot kicks into high gear from there. Kind of similar to the tonal shift in Steins;Gate. Worth it for Disappearance.

Sorry, but we're definitely gonna have to disagree on this.
 

Manzoon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,197
East Coast, USA
Tanigawa went straight for the wibbly wobbly timey-wimey nonsense.
People ask for more seasons, but honestly, the anime-only fans aren't missing much. Disappearance was the peak of the story.
I read a few of the fan translated novels before they were available in english, and I've seen the second season and Disappearance. I honestly can't remember how much I'm aware of after that because those fan translations were a bit of a mess.
 

ImNotAFroot

Member
Nov 6, 2017
295
I haven't really played the game but this is an interesting example of a japanese developer receiving feedback regarding female v/s male sexualization via the localization team and actually implementing it:

Question: Does a localization company like XSEED provide active feedback to their Japanese counterpart on the games they release for improvements, or is this a one-way process? -

"Another great example was in Akiba's Trip: Undead & Undressed. It's a game about stripping vampires, and it's less sexy and more ridiculous. However, when you fought female bosses and they were stripped, they had an over-the-top sexy portrait while male bosses had nothing. We asked the devs if they would consider adding sexy portraits for the male bosses, too, and they got the original game's artist to draw them for us. It was such an awesome thing to see our feedback taken so seriously."

tumblr_inline_p1mxvaocaW1siwbnr_500.jpg

http://xseedgames.tumblr.com/post/169008743705/2017-end-of-the-year-qa-extravaganza-blog-4/amp
 
Status
Not open for further replies.