Agreed! Only using the absurd extreme to show why the opposite extreme is as equally absurd.
Ah, but there's the rub. Realistic designs aren't harmful. Sexually objectified designs are. All these people arguing that they don't want their big-titty-toys taken away from Xenoblade (for example) are arguing in favor of alienating people who would like the game for more than is surface value. They're also perpetuating the cycle of internalized misogyny that is so deeply ingrained in society that they don't even believe it IS a problem.
I thought you put me on ignore? I'm not seeing this "high horse" shit that you keep giving me. I just asked that we not dismiss people based on an avatar. Is that out of line? Is ResetEra a place where we should have discussions where if we don't like someone's avatar we can use that as an excuse to tell them we basically don't want to back up facts in a discussion and just tell them to go away? Answer that? Or is that "tone policing" because all I see is bullying from you, and then deflecting by calling me names.
It is absolutely true that sexualisation leads to women having body issues. I have felt that pressure myself for certain. The line is different for everybody and it is difficult and certainly uncomfortable to tell someone to get over it. Once we begin talking about this angle, it is entirely about ones personal perspective.
Oh I absolutely agree that in pretty much any situation things -can- be improved. I'm just saying that the general intent of the -character designs- in Nier Automata very much define the tone of the game and what it wants to say, and I can't imagine the game without that.
Didn't we have data earlier in the thread that showed that women make up a significant chunk of the console audience though? They are hardly an outlier.
I don't disagree with him, I don't even dislike him. He clearly has a problem with me telling him not to dismiss someone because of a Quiet avatar. I don't know why!
FYI I work in user research and experience so I work with audience data constantly. The top lines of that data showed something that does not really reflect reality, if we are thinking of the same thing. The amount of games those console owning women purchased were extremely low, of which there are many reasons for that, but many of which suggest they are not the ones actively using the console.
It did feel like you came in guns blazing. I don't think you were trying to start shit, but if I didn't have past observations and interactions with you informing me otherwise, I might have thought as much. It only went downhill from that first moment.
Ah, alright then. TBH I scanned through the first 20 pages of this thread and can't even find what I'm referring to so am happy to concede the point :D
Do you always conveniently ignore posts past the first ten words?
Wait, you really think Your Name is something that "rejects" otaku culture? Really? The movie where the first thing the guy does when he finds himself in a girl's body is to grab her boobs and feel them up? A gag that runs through the entire movie even in a serious climatic moment? Reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally?
In the sense that it isn't some shit like male-targeted idol anime, I think yeah, even if maybe "rejects" is too strong a word, it definitely eschews much of it.
Sure, but we don't have to pretend that this is a sort of anime movie that doesn't exist until now, because stuff like that has always existed every year. Your Name blew up for a number of reasons, but not because general audiences finally got the non-otaku pandering movie everyone was asking for. Hosoda's films have existed for a decade now and he releases a new one every 3 years like clockwork!
Yes, seasons vary and tend to have different trends (watch as all the Idol shows pile into one season, for instance), but there's always a handful of shows airing that will match the tastes of anyone in a more general audience. I always encourage stepping into the seasonal anime threads over in EtcetEra Hangouts to inquire. Tastes are heavily varied and you can always find help to point you in the right direction if you give enough to work with.
Ping Pong, Space Battleship Yamato 2199, Rage of Bahamut Genesis, Garo the Animation, One Punch Man, Mob Psycho 100, Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu, Jojo Diamond is Unbreakable. Off the top of my head those are stuff from the last few years which I really feel stood out.
I get what you mean, yeah. But I don't think Xaszatm was saying "this is the moment the dam finally broke", just using it as one example, and a comparative example at that.
Sexualized (aka sexually objectified) and sexy are different things.
Hell yeah, Velvet is one of the best characters in the damn series, rags or no rags. Hell, Berseria has one of the best casts in the series. Man that game's writing was something else compared to what I was expecting. I have a lot of bad things to say about it, but none of them are about Velvet as a character, that's for damn sure.
If anything I feel like the amount of them has decreased as compared to similar genres over time, if only because they take things so much farther at this point so why bother with the vanilla stuff at all. Not that I'm exactly scientifically documenting this shit, mind.
Oh well. I thought so because of narrative dissonances, the character designs going against character expressions.
Just good, non-fanservicey stuff in general?
I didn't really mean stuff that has zero pandering, just that it's not a huge focus. Although to be fair, I haven't seen those shows I mentioned in years, maybe today I'd be more annoyed by stuff in them.
Yeah, haha, I think you're not wrong about panty shots decreasing in frequency. I guess my point was more that there's a lot of effort put into these sorts of things, in terms of budget and... anatomical accuracy. *shudder* So when they do happen, it feels far worse than it did in the past, even if it is technically less frequent.
Haha, I get you.
Give Shinsekai Yori (From the New World) a shot. It's one of my favorite shows of the last few years, along with these other recommendations. It's got basically no fanservice whatsoever despite what you might think from an A-1 studio show, it's just a dang good anime adaptation of a book.
I think it's probably part that you haven't seen them in a lot of years and part that a non-anime fan might not even necessarily recognize some of the more low key pandering that happens.
You never miss an opportunity for this, do you.
