Nintendo First-Party Thread

jnWake said:

I'll never understand the attitude lots of people have towards ARMS. It seems people want very specific things when they ask for "new IP" from Nintendo.

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"New IP" secretly always means a singleplayer Metroid/Mario/Zelda-like 3D Action Adventure game, ideally with a more mature weighting than Mario and a bigger focus on story. The closer something gets to that, the happier people are. That's why Pikmin was long labeled the last new IP they made because that's the only one that ticked a lot of those boxes.

People that would rather get nth sequel to decades old franchises rather than growing new IPs or making more new ones entirely make me sad. Especially when we've had like 3-4 games in that franchise for the past 10 years. 2D Mario games, Mario Kart, and Kirby come to mind

I'd also like it if Nintendo didn't quite cheap out on its new IPs right out of the gate like Splatoon and ARMS. Splatoon less so, more on ARMS. They never make enough content at launch and have rightfully been called out on it.

TheMoon said:

"New IP" secretly always means a singleplayer Metroid/Mario/Zelda-like 3D Action Adventure game, ideally with a more mature weighting than Mario and a bigger focus on story. The closer something gets to that, the happier people are.

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That sums it up pretty well.

One thing I've noticed over the years is people really want Nintendo to have their own Naughty Dog. Basically, a studio that will make the type of western software that Nintendo would never make.

And I noticed that some people get angry when Retro Studios doesn't try to be Naughty Dog or Bungie or (insert western company here).

TheMoon said:

"New IP" secretly always means a singleplayer Metroid/Mario/Zelda-like 3D Action Adventure game, ideally with a more mature weighting than Mario and a bigger focus on story. The closer something gets to that, the happier people are. That's why Pikmin was long labeled the last new IP they made because that's the only one that ticked a lot of those boxes.

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I mean, people love Splatoon.

Arms was just a lot less well received and sold a lot less.

I thought Splatoon was very well recieved? Also, ARMS is still a very good first shot at a new IP. I don't remember much hate for the concept of Splatoon on the internet (only the lack of content the first game initally had)

Emily said:

That sums it up pretty well.

One thing I've noticed over the years is people really want Nintendo to have their own Naughty Dog. Basically, a studio that will make the type of western software that Nintendo would never make.

And I noticed that some people get angry when Retro Studios doesn't try to be Naughty Dog or Bungie or (insert western company here).

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I think, at least for me, is that it would be nice for them to at least add some variety to Nintendo's line up. Them making the billionth platformer on Wii U was extremely disappointing. I've criticized Nintendo (and Sony) for having too many of their front runner franchises be the same exact genre and style.

New Super Mario Bros 2
New Super Mario Bros U
New Super Luigi U
Super Mario Maker
Super Mario Maker 3DS
Kirby Triple Deluxe
Kirby Planet Robobot
Kirby Star Allies
Kirby and the Rainbow Curse
Every single Kirby spin off title on the 3DS the past 2-3 years
Yoshi Wooly World
Yoshi and Poochy
Yoshi 2018
Donkey Kong Country Returns
Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze
Chibi Robo Ziplash
Hey Pikmin

And they all have the same cutesy art style.

Like dang. Have some variety in your lineup. They all start to look almost the same with some basic gameplay mechanic or two to separate them.

Thankfully Nintendo has been getting better at this with the Switch. But I hope with Kirby and Yoshi coming next year I hope we don't get more.

This is why I complain about people wanting another Yoshi, Kirby, 2D Mario, or Donkey Kong. I'm just sick to death with the franchises. Theres no reason to have that many games and active franchises in a single genre. And these franchises have nothing going for them other than gameplay which just blends into every other platformer series. No interesting story or characters. They just keep recycling the same story over and over, maybe with a tiny twist. Boring, lazy, dumb.

I want variety. Variety in gameplay. Variety in art style. Variety in storytelling. Variety.
Retro deserves better than just another 2D platformer

Cinemikel said:

I think, at least for me, is that it would be nice for them to at least add some variety to Nintendo's line up. Them making the billionth platformer on Wii U was extremely disappointing. I've criticized Nintendo (and Sony) for having too many of their front runner franchises be the same exact genre and style.

All 2D Mario games the past 6 years
Kirby Triple Deluxe
Kirby Planet Robobot
Kirby Star Allies
Yoshi Wooly World
Yoshi and Poochy
Yoshi 2018
Donkey Kong
Chibi Robo Ziplash
Hey Pikmin

And they all have the same cutesy art style

Like dang. Have some variety in your lineup.

Thankfully Nintendo has been getting better at this with the Switch. But I hope with Kirby and Yoshi coming next year I hope we don't get more.

Retro deserves better than just another 2D platformer

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Your post reminds me that Nintendo make Yoshi titles quite frequently these days. Kirby also comes very frequently nowadays and it's similar enough to Yoshi in terms of genre and artstyle that they just...blend in?

LunaSerena said:

1.35 millions for Arms isn't a bad result by any means. It is a new IP and people were swearing up and down by its launch it was going to bomb.
It may not be S-tier as Splatoon, but it will comfortably be a B-tier series that can fit a niche for people that want a more hardcore fighting series instead of the style used in Smash.

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ARMS is way too simplistic for that and Smash, even in its current watered down state, lends itself much better to a competitive fighting series.

Nintendo making so many 2D Platformers on WiiU was a major part of why the system failed probably.

Holy shit there were a lot of 2D Platformers. Even their 3D Mario game was a 2D Platformer shifted into 3D.

Splatoon had some people trying to bring it down at first but it was so succesful that they had no grounds to continue. Remember that a lot of people had to eat crow after the game performed as well as it did.

HAL has always pumped out Kirby games on a frequent basis and they will likely never stop. Yoshi has had a resurgence on home consoles thanks to Good-Feel. I will say I'm disappointed to see them make another Yoshi game. I'd like to see them take a stab at another franchise since they've done well with Wario, Kirby and Yoshi.

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:

I mean, people love Splatoon.

Arms was just a lot less well received and sold a lot less.

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Splatoon was a 3D action/adventure (shooter) game with a singleplayer and leaned heavily on the popular Western concept of the multiplayer shooter. It was also an utter sales/reception phenomenon with a heavy focus on Japan whereas ARMS raked in the lion's share of its success (sales wise) in the West.

memoryman3 said:

I thought Splatoon was very well recieved? Also, ARMS is still a very good first shot at a new IP. I don't remember much hate for the concept of Splatoon on the internet (only the lack of content the first game initally had)

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Splatoon's reception at its E3 reveal was mixed. People didn't "get it" at first. That's how we ended up with "this should be a $20 download" from veteran press. Plus people predicting it would do as bad/worse than The Wonderful 101. ARMS had a similar curve, it just never reached the insane impact as Splatoon due what it is and what is isn't/can't be.

"Not making enough content" is never a problem. The problem is people not really grasping or being on board with the rollout over time. All of the games had post-launch support announced before they came out. They both (ARMS/Splatoon1+2) launched with a strong core and expanded from there through free updates designed to keep the game alive and fresh for players versus dumping ton of content on them at launch when the game is still unproven and the initial playerbase would be split between modes and so on.

John Omaha said:

ARMS is way too simplistic for that and Smash, even in its current watered down state, lends itself much better to a competitive fighting series.

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Are we about to have arguments about ARMS being simplistic again? I thought we moved past that months ago lol.

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:

Nintendo making so many 2D Platformers on WiiU was a major part of why the system failed probably.

Holy shit there were a lot of 2D Platformers. Even their 3D Mario game was a 2D Platformer shifted into 3D.

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The system had already failed when they only had one 2D platformer out and announced. This "too many 2D platforms" thing is way overplayed. They had three. Four if you wanna throw Mario Maker into the mix despite it being a big late lifecycle success.

Zalman said:

I'd like to see them take a stab at another franchise since they've done well with Wario, Kirby and Yoshi.

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I'd love another Wario platformer with a similar hand-drawn art style as Wario Land Shake It.

But this time in glorious HD.

Cinemikel said:

I think, at least for me, is that it would be nice for them to at least add some variety to Nintendo's line up. Them making the billionth platformer on Wii U was extremely disappointing. I've criticized Nintendo (and Sony) for having too many of their front runner franchises be the same exact genre and style.

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Too many 2D platformers was definitely a problem for Wii U.

But an even bigger problem was NSMBU and 3D World being so similar to NSMB2 and 3D Land.

Sometimes Wii U felt like I was just playing HD expansions of 3DS titles.

Emily said:

I'd love another Wario platformer with a similar hand-drawn art style as Wario Land Shake It.

But this time in glorious HD.

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Yes, that would be great. It's been too long since a new Wario game. Even WarioWare has been missing for some time.

I don't see anything wrong with Nintendo releasing 2D platformers, I mean, that's one of their staples.

The problem with the WiiU wasn't that there were too many 2D platformers, the problem is that there wasn't much aside from that. Lack of variety kinda killed it.

(Also, comparing NSMBU and 3D World with NSMB2 and 3D Land is criminal since those WiiU games were far superior than the little 3DS projects, especially if we're talking about the cheap NSMB2 which barely had anything aside from the whole coin gimmick that amounted nothing at the end)

I'd be totally down for a new Warioware. And a new Rhythm Heaven!

Comic Obsessed said:

I don't see anything wrong with Nintendo releasing 2D platformers, I mean, that's one of their staples.

The problem with the WiiU wasn't that there were too many 2D platformers, the problem is that there wasn't much aside from that. Lack of variety kinda killed it.

(Also, comparing NSMBU and 3D World with NSMB2 and 3D Land is criminal since those WiiU games were far superior than the little 3DS projects, especially if we're talking about the cheap NSMB2 which barely had anything aside from the whole coin gimmick that amounted nothing at the end)

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It doesn't matter if the Wii U counterparts were better. To the average consumer the games were too similar. 3DS owners saw little reason to get a Wii U.

WarioWare, for better or worse, is one of those series that Nintendo only really makes more of when they have some wacky hardware gimmick to base it around.

Mega Party Games - GCN 4 player support
Twisted - GBA Gyro sensor
Touched - DS touch screen
Smooth Moves - Motion Controls
Snapped - DSi camera
Game & Wario - Wii U gamepad

In that sense, I can see why there wasn't a WW game on 3DS: the team probably couldn't figure out how to make a new game built around the system's gimmicks. Snapped was already kind of a mess, so I'm kinda glad we didn't end up with a new installment haphazardly designed around the 3D slider or something like that.

I'd be kinda surprised if we didn't get a new WarioWare for Switch, considering all the new opportunities with the JoyCons.

Comic Obsessed said:

I don't see anything wrong with Nintendo releasing 2D platformers, I mean, that's one of their staples.

The problem with the WiiU wasn't that there were too many 2D platformers, the problem is that there wasn't much aside from that. Lack of variety kinda killed it.

(Also, comparing NSMBU and 3D World with NSMB2 and 3D Land is criminal since those WiiU games were far superior than the little 3DS projects, especially if we're talking about the cheap NSMB2 which barely had anything aside from the whole coin gimmick that amounted nothing at the end)

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Well, the amount of 2D platformers kind of lead to the lack of variety as resources are limited.

Well yeah, I'd love to have more RPGs and adventure games from Nintendo. Those are my core interests in gaming.

I'd love a new Metroid (2D and 3D, here's to hoping Prime 4 is satisfying) for example, preferably with the mood, aesthetics, and structure of a SM or Metroid Prime with better gadget ideas and "modern" production values.

Or a new 2D Zelda.

I'd love Fire Emblem to actually give a damn about its story, characters, and world again instead of the nihilistic "pleasure the disinterested" bent that they've been on wrt those things but I'll settle for something like Conquest where at least the level design is engaging.

And I'd love it if they spent time on new IP that similarly appealed to me and also turned out in a satisfying way for me.

Yet, in this thread the drum I keep hammering is AC/2D Mario/Pokemon and new things in the vein of Nintendogs/Brain Age/Wii Sports/Wii Fit.

You can want different things personally than you think Nintendo should focus on; don't really see the need to come at the kind of games people like like that at all.

Zalman said:

It doesn't matter if the Wii U counterparts were better. To the average consumer the games were too similar. 3DS owners saw little reason to get a Wii U.

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The average consumer saw little reason to get the WiiU in general.

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:

Well, the amount of 2D platformers kind of lead to the lack of variety as resources are limited.

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Yeah, it didn't help that a few of the projects that could have expanded such variety (Devil's Third, Star Fox Zero) bombed both critically and commercially.

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:

Well, the amount of 2D platformers kind of lead to the lack of variety as resources are limited.

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NSMB games didn't stop Pikmin from being made.
Yoshi's Woolly World didn't stop Good-Feel from making any 3D games as they've only made 2D games (platformers, aside from the 3DS StreetPass games) anyway.
Fucking Donkey Kong took people's precious Retro away from Metroid Prime so it unquestionably is the devil.

The variety was there. It was provided through partnerships with Platinum, Koei Tecmo, TT Games, Valhalla, and their own stuff. People just didn't care for what was being offered to a large extent.

Emily said:

That sums it up pretty well.

One thing I've noticed over the years is people really want Nintendo to have their own Naughty Dog. Basically, a studio that will make the type of western software that Nintendo would never make.

And I noticed that some people get angry when Retro Studios doesn't try to be Naughty Dog or Bungie or (insert western company here).

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Yeah, it makes me wonder how the reception to Retro's (potential?) new IP will go if it's not close to those kinds of games. Of course since the studio is so secretive it's hard to get any kind of gauge on what their culture is like or where their interest in game making is. We can only assume where they will go next based on their past body of work.

Gartooth said:

Yeah, it makes me wonder how the reception to Retro's (potential?) new IP will go if it's not close to those kinds of games.

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I think as long its not a platformer, it will have a postive reaction. At least I hope they get the benefit of the doubt.

They've made 5 great games in a row (opinions may vary on this)

Part of the reason people have this expectation of wanting Retro to make games like Bungie is that Retro made, you know... Metroid Prime.

(Then again, I doubt anyone on this forum would like Retro to be like modern Bungie as modern Bungie only does making Destiny and making their fans mad with lack of communication).

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:

Part of the reason people have this expectation of wanting Retro to make games like Bungie is that Retro made, you know... Metroid Prime.

(Then again, I doubt anyone on this forum would like Retro to be like modern Bungie as modern Bungie only does making Destiny and making their fans mad with lack of communication).

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But aren't a good chunk of the MP guys gone?

DecoReturns said:

I think as long its not a platformer, it will have a postive reaction. At least I hope they get the benefit of the doubt.

They've made 5 great games in a row (opinions may vary on this)

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There's people who will be mad if it's DK.

I do think, say, a party game would be strange from Retro. They've been making games targeted at the core their entire time with Nintendo, from a trilogy of first-person single-player adventure games to the harder Nintendo platformer.

I think we will see a similarly targeted game from them next, but that could be any number of things.

Neoxon said:

But aren't a good chunk of the MP guys gone?

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I mean, many of the leads of Metroid Prime are gone to Armature or consulting or Playful, but many of the leads of Donkey Kong are gone as well to Armature or Playful or consulting.

They still have like 20-30 people who have been there since Metroid Prime 1.

Most of Naughty Dog's very top people except for one guy quit after Uncharted 4 and no one really doubts that they can still make Last of Us 2.

Bungie is lead by the Microsoft fanboy from the 1up podcast at this point, lol.

Ugh, I wouldn't want Retro to become either Bungie or Naughty Dog (although a bit of influence from the latter would be nice). I just want them to keep releasing great games.

That being said, I don't know if I would be excited for yet another, er, "f*cking" Donkey Kong Country.

Retro are making Star Fox, Starting James McCloud Rated M for Mature.

Remember when—before Tropical Freeze was revealed—Peer Schneider heard from "anonymous sources" that Retro was working on a new IP? These rumors are always started by people who want Retro be Nintendo's Naughty Dog and they never materialize.

The lead designer of DKCR and DKCTF quit to make ReCore.

The lead designer and lead narrative designer of Retro's new game quit to make a PS VR game that looks like Metroid but you can't control the Samus character directly.

Turnover happens, especially since video game development is hell and Retro doesn't seem to avoid crunch culture like Next Level does.

I can agree with some people that Nintendo hasn't made a new single player IP on consoles in a while. We have Monolith with the Xeno series, which are technically new, but they do share a lot of similar gameplay systems that make them identifiable as part of the same series. Plus they're very much in Monolith's style. I want a new one from either Retro (because it's been a while) or from an internal team.

You know, I'm still shocked that Next Level Games never made another Strikers game.
Those were the best Mario Sport game, not counting Mario Kart.

Naughty Dog benefits from working on powerful hardware to have realistic and cinematographic games.

None of those things is very interesting to Nintendo

Tsukinopio said:

Remember when—before Tropical Freeze was revealed—Peer Schneider heard from "anonymous sources" that Retro was working on a new IP? These rumors are always started by people who want Retro be Nintendo's Naughty Dog and they never materialize.

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Retro is always making a new IP, the next Mario Kart is for sure always going to be Nintendo Kart, etc, etc

Glio said:

Naughty Dog benefits from working on powerful hardware to have realistic and cinematographic games.

None of those things is very interesting to Nintendo

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I mean, sure, but people just mean they want Retro to make more games like Metroid Prime 1-3 except maybe slightly more story driven when they say they want Retro to be like Naughty Dog.

I'm just hoping Retro releases a new game next year and it's great.

Retro is always making a new IP, the next Mario Kart is for sure always going to be Nintendo Kart, etc, etc

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... Mario Kart 8 Deluxe is 100% Nintendo Kart.

Glio said:

Naughty Dog benefits from working on powerful hardware to have realistic and cinematographic games.

None of those things is very interesting to Nintendo

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Also a much bigger budget...Nintendo ain't spending that kind of money.

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:

I mean, sure, but people just mean they want Retro to make more games like Metroid Prime 1-3 except maybe slightly more story driven when they say they want Retro to be like Naughty Dog.

I'm just hoping Retro releases a new game next year and it's great.



... Mario Kart 8 Deluxe is 100% Nintendo Kart.

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But if you look at sales there are a lot more people interested in a Donkey Kong than a Metroid

Glio said:

But if you look at sales there are a lot more people interested in a Donkey Kong than a Metroid

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Sure, but Donkey Kong turned out to not be a system seller either based on the WiiU.

It makes sense to make games that can sell systems when you're a first and DK can be redundant for Nintendo after Mario Odyssey and Yoshi and Kirby and the next 2D Mario (and maybe even Mania also).

Story driven single player games are not very popular unless they're open world though.

So we'll see what Retro is making next.

Alhough Shikamaru Ninja has said otherwise, there were rumors that Tanabe had a falling out with Retro. Maybe Tanabe was angry that Retro wanted to continue working on Donkey Kong so he commissioned a new team to make Metroid Prime instead.

Let us not forget that the president and CEO of Retro worked for the Treehouse while DKC was being developed. He obviously has a soft spot for the series.

That rumour really will not die, will it.

Tsukinopio said:

Alhough Shikamaru Ninja has said otherwise, there were rumors that Tanabe had a falling out with Retro. Maybe Tanabe was angry that Retro wanted to continue working on Donkey Kong so he commissioned a new team to make Metroid Prime instead.

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I don't think Retro would have hired a bunch of writers if they were making a new Donkey Kong but we will see.

Relationships that last decades can be hard in general and especially since Retro has had a tough history in general (tons of cancellations before MP1, developer walkout after MP3, maybe a major cancellation after Tropical Freeze as Tanabe seemed to know what they were working on back in 2014 but didn't have any idea in 2015).

That rumour really will not die, will it.

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It feels like when Tanabe said at e3 2015 "I don't know what Retro is doing" that the rumor was confirmed?

If he were still the producer, it feels like he would know what they were doing.

EAD Ninja has mostly disputed how dramatic their breakup was and whether or not Liam Robertson has many sources.

While I don't believe the rumor, but wouldn't it be logical that if Retro wants to continue working on DK, Tanabe would obviously need another team to make the game?

Didn't Tanabe have control over the DKCR franchise too?

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:

I don't think Retro would have hired a bunch of writers if they were making a new Donkey Kong but we will see.

Relationships that last decades can be hard in general and especially since Retro has had a tough history in general (tons of cancellations before MP1, developer walkout after MP3, maybe a major cancellation after Tropical Freeze as Tanabe seemed to know what they were working on back in 2014 but didn't have any idea in 2015).

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I don't think Retro would hire writers for a project that has been in development since 2014. I could be wrong, but my guess is that they're sitting on a 3D Donkey Kong and the recent hirings are for another game.

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:

It feels like when Tanabe said at e3 2015 "I don't know what Retro is doing" that the rumor was confirmed?

If he were still the producer, it feels like he would know what they were doing.

EAD Ninja has mostly disputed how dramatic their breakup was and whether or not Liam Robertson has many sources.

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I mean him working on some other project, sure. But that's an entirely separate matter from the "dramatic breakup" bit which is the actual meat of the rumour. Especially since Tanabe's E3 2015 comments predate the rumour so it's not really much help there.

Tsukinopio said:

I don't think Retro would hire writers for a project that has been in development since 2014. I could be wrong, but my guess is that they're sitting on a 3D Donkey Kong and the recent hirings are for another game.

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Sitting on games this long basically never happens. They hired their writers in May of 2015 and August of 2016.

I mean him working on some other project, sure. But that's an entirely separate matter from the "dramatic breakup" bit which is the actual meat of the rumour. Especially since Tanabe's E3 2015 comments predate the rumour so it's not really much help there.

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I mean, the actual "meat" of the rumor would be that Tanabe and Retro aren't working together anymore and that seems fairly likely.

The other stuff is just tabloid drama.