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Catherine: Full Body Announced for the PS4 and PS Vita [Updated]
- Thread starter Minako
- Start date
For example, someone was warned because he/she used the word trap referring a virtual character, which is a word that has been used for years in the anime community, and even by anime characters.
Another user felt offended because someone said "... a transexual ...", And said that you shouldn't say "a". I mean, that's an over reaction IMO.
And I haven't played Persona 5, so I can't talk about it.
But I think the only "bad" joke involving LGBT in Catherine was the use of the name "Eric" in the credits.
Do you still use the f word for gay people?
Lingos evolve.
And that "bad joke" and her being in the dreams are implications that she's not a real woman.
Surely you can see why that's not cool with trans folks
Lingos evolve.
And that "bad joke" and her being in the dreams are implications that she's not a real woman.
Surely you can see why that's not cool with trans folks
I swear it's always something with Atlus. Hoping for the best... I guess.
Maybe the T word has been a shitty term since forever for everyone who acknowledges trans people and for good reason. And maybe we should accommodate our language to suit the needs of people who often are oppressed by it rather than seek "to not be so sensitive".
That aside, Jesus I never noticed she was listed as Eric in the credits of Catherine. That says a lot about the writers' perception of her.
That aside, Jesus I never noticed she was listed as Eric in the credits of Catherine. That says a lot about the writers' perception of her.
Are you trans? If not, you don't get to decide what is and isn't okay.
People also thought it was okay to say "colored" to refer to a black person for years. Thinks change.
It's use in the anime community or in anime is beside the point. It's a slur. I understand that people aren't used to thinking about these words and phrases in this context, but times are changing, do you really want to be on the wrong side of history on this? It's transphobic, it's not hard to parse WHY it's transphobic. It's not up for debate, it isn't allowed here.
It's also worth noting that it's "use in anime" is typically the result of poorly translating terms like "otokonoko" or "jousou" which don't have exact English equivalents. So really, it's use in anime is the deliberate choice of the translator to use transphobic language. It's a slur, plain and simple.
I honestly had to think a few seconds about what "the f word" meant. I had never used that word.
And maybe I wasn't clear or expressed baddly. I wanted to say that that joke was unnecessary and tasteless, and it shouldn't have happened.
But she being in the dreams can be explained, and someone has already mentioned that.
I would never call a real person with that word.
I was just talking about a character in a videogame, and all I said was my opinion, I wasn't deciding if something is ok or not.
Is kind of related, is a japanese game, made by japanese developers, and with anime style; also I doubt a game like this can change history
That's good information.
But still, the term is widely used to refer to a certain type of character in anime, manga, etc. ; not in real life.
Even if you would never use that word to refer to someone in real life, the word itself helps perpetuate harmful stereotypes about trans and gender non-conforming people. The more people have the idea that those kind of people are "trying to trick men", the worse off they'll be. People like me get killed over ideas like that.
You may not think of using that word as transphobic, but the ideas it promotes are harmful to the trans community. Please don't use it.
Is it really that baffling? The Vita has a built in audience. P4 Golden is probably the best selling Vita game and the system is popular in Japan.
That's a well-placed butt logo.
Get them phones squared away.
It's a shame people are not aware of the slur and the ramifications it can on hurting/upsetting people. It's a grey topic many people are not experienced or aware with and should double check before using any related words on the subject or avoid such a sensitive matter.
I mean it was bracketed, she is first and foremost listed as Erica
Nah but everyone expect Rin to be one.
There's also the sexless theory, or a gay man who love crossdressing.
Ah, I saw actual "news" articles popping up on my Twitter feed. Weird.
Guess I'll wait to see what's real and what's not and see how they handle it.
The trailer they released is causing quite a bit of panic so perhaps the news you saw picked up on that and called it a confirmation.
Yeah we'll have to wait~
I think the term gets so widespread because a few bad members of the community have pulled stunts and then it gets spread from there. I have literally had it happen to me double digit times. I'm not saying that it's okay, and I don't spread any negative rhetoric, just letting you know in case you thought it was all made up. Sadly in the world we live in, ignorant people will always default to stereotypes. I'm 33 with 2 kids and still have to deal with white ladies clutching their purses when I walk by and getting pulled over by the police with no real reasoning.
On topic, I have been reading all of this for a few days now, and I think there are major conclusions being jumped to here. It's good to voice concerns, but we're at the point where everyone is expecting an outcome that none of us have any idea about.
As far as I remember Erica is also listed as Eric in the art book and her gender is listed as Male.
It goes further than the credits and how the game perceives her - that's why people are worried.
To be honest, I don't think Rin is trans but if she is then I hope to the high heavens that Atlus do it tastefully.
I think its fine for people to have their worries though, its perfectly logical and easy to assume because Atlus has dealt with the LGBT frequently and recently and besides Lala they've been pretty bad.
Granted I've not seen many people take it as a fact that Rin is in fact trans, just that people are worried in case Atlus fuck it up.
It goes further than the credits and how the game perceives her - that's why people are worried.
To be honest, I don't think Rin is trans but if she is then I hope to the high heavens that Atlus do it tastefully.
I think its fine for people to have their worries though, its perfectly logical and easy to assume because Atlus has dealt with the LGBT frequently and recently and besides Lala they've been pretty bad.
Granted I've not seen many people take it as a fact that Rin is in fact trans, just that people are worried in case Atlus fuck it up.
Discussion is great! It gives Altus and the industry a chance to hear people's voices. There is a lot of anger and hostility over people taking it as worst case scenario. You can't jump to that big of a conclusion based on the past IMO, where it's being taken as almost certain enough to get angry over. Those saying "the majority thinks it will happen like this" doesn't make it right either. The majority has been wrong many times in history.
I think it's good that you don't go around calling real people that word, but the term "trap" doesn't have any real value either way regardless of context, and using it has effects like having people use it for characters like Erica like we've seen in this thread. Erica is a trans character that real trans people can identify with, and seeing others refer to her with that word might as well be the same as being called it themselves.
And the original intent of the term is shitty anyway, it implies trans people and cross dressers are out to trick you into having sex with someone with a penis. There's 0 value in preserving that crap.
And at the end of the day, if we turned out to be wrong, we all get to enjoy a non transphobic game, so yay.
And the original intent of the term is shitty anyway, it implies trans people and cross dressers are out to trick you into having sex with someone with a penis. There's 0 value in preserving that crap.
Yeah let's be honest, people expecting the worst doesn't do any damage to anyone, and you could even argue that given Atlus' track record it makes more sense to be concerned that not.
And at the end of the day, if we turned out to be wrong, we all get to enjoy a non transphobic game, so yay.
This is the announcement thread for the game, where the community should be able to go and discuss the game. I would argue that it is harmful because the conversation has been completely dominated by that. If this were a "Let's mull over the issues in Catherine's representation" thread then it would be a completely different story in my book. If everyone turns out to be wrong, with the current trajectory of discourse, then we will have gone a whole year(or however long) with hostility from both sides surrounding any media associated with the game. The issue with Erica is a part of the game, but there is only one topic that can even be discussed between the 2 threads right now.
There have been issues with some of their games, but has Altus ever centered its marketing around such material? I can't remember any and that would make this instance different from the past if not and it turns out to be true.
"Let's wait and see before we get too far into the topic" isn't a ridiculous notion, I would argue it makes the most sense.
These are extremely important topics to be talked about, I'm not denying that, but in the right setting.
I don't think we have to worry about Rin, and now that I think back on it Erica was played for laughs. I think it's pretty easy to agree that's not a very positive portrayal of transgendered people.
I chalk it up to Japan not having the same advocacy voice that we do here in America. I could be wrong, but that's my take.
I'm disappointed in the mods that this discussion seems to have gone as far as to upset the community as much as it has, and more disappointed that some seem to think it's ok to make light of people's feelings regarding the issue.
Catherine is an interesting project, problematic in places but it's worth celebrating it's return.
I chalk it up to Japan not having the same advocacy voice that we do here in America. I could be wrong, but that's my take.
I'm disappointed in the mods that this discussion seems to have gone as far as to upset the community as much as it has, and more disappointed that some seem to think it's ok to make light of people's feelings regarding the issue.
Catherine is an interesting project, problematic in places but it's worth celebrating it's return.
I am surprised how much I am seeing the word "trap" when looking up reactions and discussions for the announcement. I always assumed that people knew that term was offensive to the trans community.
A lot of people will knowingly use the term. Some will even be more likely to use it knowing that it's offensive.
Yep. Atlus has a particularly bad track record with this stuff, unfortunately.
Yep. Atlus has a particularly bad track record with this stuff, unfortunately.
Ugh, I heard people mention the art book. Didn't know it was that bad.
Rin needs to be a girl, because after Erica I have no confidence they'll be able to do a transitioned male to female right. Erica's such a cool character too, but after I saw the credits I was like "nope can't trust these guys with that kind of storytelling".
Honestly though, I think it's just gonna be that Rin doesn't wear panties under her default sailor dress thing. Japan has a thing for doing characters that go commando in the more fanservicey anime and manga out there, especially when it contrasts their demeanor. And a sweet, kind pink haired classical pianist would fit that bill.
Honestly though, I think it's just gonna be that Rin doesn't wear panties under her default sailor dress thing. Japan has a thing for doing characters that go commando in the more fanservicey anime and manga out there, especially when it contrasts their demeanor. And a sweet, kind pink haired classical pianist would fit that bill.
I could see this being the case, honestly. A seemingly sweet girl gets close to Vincent and then next thing that happens is she takes her dress off and she's not wearing anything underneath... and then Vincent makes that over the top expression because he's getting into even MORE trouble.
Yep. Atlus has a particularly bad track record with this stuff, unfortunately.
:( It's still sad to see Atlus fuck up Erica so bad, it wouldn't have been so bad if they weren't so utterly disrespectful outside of the games media too, she's such a lovely character herself as well.
Erica in particular frustrates me because it's like they had an excellent, amazing trans character, that could have been one of THE trans representation examples in videogames, but then they tripped, landed on a landmine, got showered in acid rain, and the earth split apart beneath them and they fell into molten lava.
Her design is great. Her personality and role within the story is interesting, especially her interactions with Vincent when he's not around his friends. But every time her being trans is brought up it's just handled in the worst way possible, and it's the worst. Really, you could cut her out of Catherine and put her in a game with better friends (and creators), and that would solve most if not all of her issues.
Her design is great. Her personality and role within the story is interesting, especially her interactions with Vincent when he's not around his friends. But every time her being trans is brought up it's just handled in the worst way possible, and it's the worst. Really, you could cut her out of Catherine and put her in a game with better friends (and creators), and that would solve most if not all of her issues.
I still have no idea how they're going to handle the progression and story with another added character and added events. Not to mention the chaos <-> Law bar working for Catherine and Katherine.
That wouldn't work because balance is the freedom route.
Is deadnaming a concept that exists in Japan? I'm not trying to defend the developer's actions (and it is certainly something that should have been rectified at least in localization). Just curious whether Japan's treatment of trans people is at the point where this is frowned upon over there.
Wow this topic certainly blew up. We don't even know based on the screenshot if the character being represented is a trans person or not. Chill everyone please.
I am more interested as the above posters stated how they are going to balance this 3rd character into the game as the Law and Chaos bar were heavily influenced on what endings you received in the first game. Depending on where the bar was you could have a max of up to 3 specific endings based on your playthrough. If the freedom ending is still decided by the bar being neutral then I wonder how Rin will tie in,
Also, are they going to have statistics tied to the choices people make again I wonder?
I am more interested as the above posters stated how they are going to balance this 3rd character into the game as the Law and Chaos bar were heavily influenced on what endings you received in the first game. Depending on where the bar was you could have a max of up to 3 specific endings based on your playthrough. If the freedom ending is still decided by the bar being neutral then I wonder how Rin will tie in,
Also, are they going to have statistics tied to the choices people make again I wonder?
I'd be surprised if they didn't. I'm also curious if they'll have new stages to the tower of babel or something similar.
Is it misjudgment if Atlus didn't offer any other context to the scene? It's not like they show Vincent's reaction after waking up with Catherine in the original game. That could've actually gone a long way towards easing some people on the subject. But combined with how disgustingly Erica was treated in the original game (in a narrative and meta sense) and how marketing is depicting Rin's sex as a mystery, it only serves to make the whole thing even more gross.
It was confirmed in an article in a Japanese publication that Atlus itself retweeted that he is in fact reacting to her crotch.
I mean, most people would react with surprise to a bare crotch in their face, and Vincent's got a major case of goober face throughout the game. A non-reaction would be weirder.