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Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter Deleted member 8112
- Start date
They could always retcon the battle that destroyed Earth in X2 by saying "but wait, thats not what actually happened back then, heres a flashback!". After all we didn't see all that much from the battle in the intro.
It would already be enough to mention the term "saviourite" once in a while.
It would already be enough to mention the term "saviourite" once in a while.
Basically, as far as XB1 is concerned, the Monado wasn't a sword but rather a divine power to shape reality ("change fate"). Or perhaps it would better help to think of it as "administrator privileges" - and Alvis was the Chief Admin over Shulk's universe.
Its easier to understand when you relate it to Gnosticism: the True God (the Monad) who resides in a higher dimension created lesser gods, among them Yaldabaoth and Sophia. Yaldabaoth then creates (or believes he created) the physical world, sometimes with help from Sophia (there are numerous variations of the myth).
Effectively, as I read XB1 at least, Alvis was the True God who gave the power of "the Monado" (the divine power to shape reality/fate) to Zanza (the Demiurge, who believes he created the universe) and Meyneth (Sophia). At game's end, he then offers this power to Shulk, but Shulk rejects it, choosing instead to live in a world "without Gods".
XB2 seems to imply that there were three AIs that connected to the Zohar (Alvis, Malos, Mythra), each of them attaining this ability to reshape reality. You can see Mythra use this when she grants Rex his armour (there's a split second shot of the Conduit/Zohar when she does so), and when they're able to keep up with Jin afterwards. Mythra and Malos, however, don't appear to be "gods" in the same sense as Alvis, possibly because they remained in the "prime" dimension. It might not even be the "prime" dimension, but a replica Klaus created subconsciously, in his desire to atone for his mistakes. That might also explain why the Zohar vanishes when he dies...
tl;dr Shulk is trapped in the Matrix, and Rex might be too.
Its easier to understand when you relate it to Gnosticism: the True God (the Monad) who resides in a higher dimension created lesser gods, among them Yaldabaoth and Sophia. Yaldabaoth then creates (or believes he created) the physical world, sometimes with help from Sophia (there are numerous variations of the myth).
Effectively, as I read XB1 at least, Alvis was the True God who gave the power of "the Monado" (the divine power to shape reality/fate) to Zanza (the Demiurge, who believes he created the universe) and Meyneth (Sophia). At game's end, he then offers this power to Shulk, but Shulk rejects it, choosing instead to live in a world "without Gods".
XB2 seems to imply that there were three AIs that connected to the Zohar (Alvis, Malos, Mythra), each of them attaining this ability to reshape reality. You can see Mythra use this when she grants Rex his armour (there's a split second shot of the Conduit/Zohar when she does so), and when they're able to keep up with Jin afterwards. Mythra and Malos, however, don't appear to be "gods" in the same sense as Alvis, possibly because they remained in the "prime" dimension. It might not even be the "prime" dimension, but a replica Klaus created subconsciously, in his desire to atone for his mistakes. That might also explain why the Zohar vanishes when he dies...
tl;dr Shulk is trapped in the Matrix, and Rex might be too.
Here's a thought. If they are establishing that Alvis is part of the Trinity Processor, that means he wasn't created as a computer system on the original Beanstalk, but rather created after the first phase experiment, in the time of Arest. Which would mean something happened again after that, but before Melbany climbed the World Tree to steal Logos and Pneuma? Did Klaus try to activate Zohar again? Klaus clearly wasn't alone after the first activation, he said there were other survivors, hence the monsters in Mors. Maybe Takahashi hasn't really decided where to take this and so glossed over that part of the history. What exactly caused Ousia to go haywire and warp out?
I actually was expecting Rex to be a direct descendant of Addam or a reincarnation of him. I'm glad Rex was just some random dude (judging by his parents clothes, he's Tantalese) that got caught up in this big thing but I wish they didn't make them so similar.
I've never played Xenosaga. Does the Zohar essentially function the same in that game and in the Xenoblade series?
Yes and no. It's a bit of an enigma and it's abiltiies are all over the place at times. At its heart it's tied into religion much much more than the English Dub of Xenoblade Chronicles 2, which kind of does away with a lot of that.
One thing the Zohar is seen doing is 'insta-killing' people or that's what it looks like anyway, they just disappear but I like to think that they're teleported into another universe.
In lore it is stated that the Zohar is kind of a portal between the lower earthly realm and the upper godly realm. I like how this parallels Klaus becoming a god in both the first and second Xenoblade game, in these new universes.
I'd love to see how the Conduit is talked about in the Japanese version because the English subs and dub strip a lot of the religious iconography out of it so I wonder if they talk about the Conduit more like a powerful gateway or artifact like they do in the Xenosaga games.
I think when Alvis uses the name Monado he's either acting as the True God (Monad) or it is the Monad speaking through him. Alvis means "All Knowing" and may be the Xenoblade equivalent of the human manifestation of god in other universes.
In fact, the form Alvis takes as the Monado:
is very similar to the form god took in Xenogears, the Wave Existence:
A green cross-shaped light radiating waves of light.
Alvis/Monado in XC1 also acts a lot like god in Xenosaga, being curious about humanity and asking characters what they wish to do.
No, the Trinity Processor was what Klaus used to open the Zohar and trigger the event. Alvis refers to himself as the administrative computer of the space station. So he definitely existed before it. I'm guessing the reason he's more aware than Logos and Pneuma is because he teleported to the other dimension and merged with god, while in the XC2 universe Klaus reprogrammed Logos and Pneuma to enact his atonement and they lost their data about the previous state of the world. Plus it fits with the name Alvis meaning "all knowing."
I've been doing some research and come up with some stuff. Logos is reason/divine will, Ontos is being/reality, and Pneuma is soul/spirit. In Stoic Cosmology, Logos and Matter are considered 2 constants, with Pneuma being the vehicle Logos uses to shape matter. Logos is the force that destroys and creates in a cycle. At the end of the destruction of the universe it becomes pure Pneuma, which is used to create a new one. This is also interesting because of how Logos is required to use Pneuma to reclaim his true form.
Now, another interesting connection dealing with the trinity is that Pneuma is the basis for the Holy Spirit of the Christian Holy Trinity. The Holy Spirit often occupies the bottom station on the trinity shield:
Which is the equivalent station Pneuma occupies on the XC2 version:
The cores of the Trinity Processor are basically computers made to act as lesser versions of the Zohar to access it and the power of god.
"Another Stoic concept which offered inspiration to the Church was that of 'divine Spirit'. Cleanthes, wishing to give more explicit meaning to Zeno's 'creative fire', had been the first to hit upon the term pneuma, or 'spirit', to describe it. Like fire, this intelligent 'spirit' was imagined as a tenuous substance akin to a current of air or breath, but essentially possessing the quality of warmth; it was immanent in the universe as God, and in man as the soul and life-giving principle. Clearly it is not a long step from this to the 'Holy Spirit' of Christian theology, the 'Lord and Giver of life', visibly manifested as tongues of fire at Pentecost and ever since associated – in the Christian as in the Stoic mind – with the ideas of vital fire and beneficient warmth."
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That contradicts what Klaus says in XB2 though. He specifically says he created the Trinity Processor as a means of managing the Blade system because he feared someone like the old him would come along. :P
The Trinity Processor definitely existed before the event and was used to trigger it. It you rewatch the "The Birth of a Universe" cutscene, he very clearly says "Trinity Processor sync rate at 96%" as he is prepping to do the thing.
That's weird. So did he just retool the remaining two parts of it as Master Blades after the fact?
That's not what he said. Watch the scene again. When he opens the Zohar before the experiment he mentions the Trinity Processor being at 96% sync rate with the Zohar:
Which he says should be good enough. Guess it wasn't.
When he talks about creating the blade system he just says he used Logos and Pneuma for that purpose.
"To stave off these doubts, I implemented one final measure. And so the Blades were born. Ontos, Logos, and Pneuma... the three cores of the Trinity Processor form their cornerstone. However... Ontos triggered a space-time transition event, and disappeared forever. I was left with the other two, Logos and Pneuma, entrusting them with managing the Blades."
So he used the cores of the Trinity Processor to form and manage the Blades.
In the first cutscene of Chapter 10, we know that the Trinity processor was used to manage the Conduit and tap into its capabilities. This system was then repurposed after Klaus destroyed the universe to manage the Blades and the rule ignoring that Aegises are doing is tied into their ability to tap into the conduit. Ontos disappeared after a space-time event though the timing of the said event is never given (my guess is around the time the universe was destroyed) and so Logos and Pneuma were left to manage the Blades.
Does the Japanese version also use the term "Saviorite rebels", I can hear "Saviorite" but not sure if the rebel is correct translation, I think the term could be used to refer to the alien side.
Also I just re-watched X's cutscene and I noticed the start point that caused the earth to explode, it looks like it's where the beanstalk was
Also I just re-watched X's cutscene and I noticed the start point that caused the earth to explode, it looks like it's where the beanstalk was
I have a hard time to understand this sentence. could you rephrase it please? :)
it's not about the meaning of the sentence. English is not my mother language tongue. I just have a hard time to read this sentence
Saviorite is obviously supposed to be a religious faction. They're followers of a Savior, possibly a renamed Christianity. The Earth also didn't explode in XC2, so it exploding in X is a big point against it being the same universe. And in X humanity had come together because they knew the Ganglion were coming 30 years before the game started. Klaus makes it clear that humanity had destroyed the Earth in XC2.Does the Japanese version also use the term "Saviorite rebels", I can hear "Saviorite" but not sure if the rebel is correct translation, I think the term could be used to refer to the alien side.
Also I just re-watched X's cutscene and I noticed the start point that caused the earth to explode, it looks like it's where the beanstalk was
2 years after leaving Earth, the White Whale gets attacked and crashes on Mira. I don't remember if they ever showed it, but prior to crashing on Mira there was a bright light that everyone was pulled into. Mira appears to be some kind of space-time anomoly with god-like powers. Nobody can leave it, it magically saves all the humans, etc. My thoughts are that the White Whale was carrying the Zohar, and similar to how it acted in Xenogears it saved humanity when they crashed.
The person you quoted should have used a hyphen.
"...and the rule-ignoring that Aegises are doing is tied into their ability to tap into the conduit."
The way they wrote it without the hyphen makes you read it as rule (noun) ignoring (verb) when they meant rule-ignoring as a single verb.
Rewriting it for better word flow, "The Aegises are able to ignore the rules due to their ability to tap into the conduit."
But speaking of that, the loss of memories that the Blades experienced when their drivers died seems to be part of the system of sending information back to Klaus through the Aegises. So now that the space station is gone there's no need to upload that info, so perhaps Blades can retain their memories now.
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I beat this game in 180 hours lol. I love how cutscene heavy this game is, I think it's over 10 hours. I laughed when Shinji Hashimoto's name showed up in the credits, I hope he learns how to be efficient in game development from Monolith because holy shit, how do you make a game like this in 2-3 years? Can't wait for their Game of Thrones game.
That Shulk line was so good. I really liked the story, it gave some Eureka Seven vibes and it really felt like going through a journey. I don't think the DLC will be about Addam, feels like there isn't much more to do with him, he fulfilled his role. Hopefully it'll be after the ending
Just finished it, what a game.
I was really doubting that this game would be connected to the first one (yes even though it's called XBC2) just because of how different everything was. However as I kept playing I started to get an inkling that maybe it is somehow. I think this hunch of mine peaked when I saw Malos use a Monado in his battle, my mind was blown, even if that was just a reference. But man, that ending. Shulk's line was amazing, I got chills when I heard it. Also Alvis being the third Aegis that got lost is an amazing theory. I think I have a good grasp of the ending but I have a couple questions I was hoping someone could clear up for me:
1) So if I'm understanding correctly, Klaus when he was a scientist created 2 separate dimensions, one being XB1 and the other being XB2? Is this why only half of him was in XB2?
2) Who or what is the whale titan? The one shown in the very beginning of the game and then at the very end, and on the boxart?
I was really doubting that this game would be connected to the first one (yes even though it's called XBC2) just because of how different everything was. However as I kept playing I started to get an inkling that maybe it is somehow. I think this hunch of mine peaked when I saw Malos use a Monado in his battle, my mind was blown, even if that was just a reference. But man, that ending. Shulk's line was amazing, I got chills when I heard it. Also Alvis being the third Aegis that got lost is an amazing theory. I think I have a good grasp of the ending but I have a couple questions I was hoping someone could clear up for me:
1) So if I'm understanding correctly, Klaus when he was a scientist created 2 separate dimensions, one being XB1 and the other being XB2? Is this why only half of him was in XB2?
2) Who or what is the whale titan? The one shown in the very beginning of the game and then at the very end, and on the boxart?
1) yea, apparently xb2 is the real Earth?
2) I believe that's Uraya
Edit:
http://xenoblade.wikia.com/wiki/Uraya
1) yea, apparently xb2 is the real Earth?
2) I believe that's Uraya, I'm very curious about it too.
Edit:
I'm pretty sure it isn't Uraya. The whale titan with giant holes at the top is Uraya isn't it? The one shown right next to this whale in the ending landing on the island? Maybe it is and I'm dumb.
Too late for me to stealth edit.
http://xenoblade.wikia.com/wiki/Uraya
Such a weird choice to choose Uraya as box art though.
Ok, thanks. Yeah that's weird. Thought it would have some story significance or something.
Theres something odd to me in the beginning cutscene of the 4th chapter: We see flashback with a city, probably Torna, being nuked from above and it then cuts to Siren with Mythra in the cockpit, murderer eyes and all, implying that she was the attacker.
What do you think was the purpose of that cutscene? Is it just a poorly done attempt of a diversion from the writers or is there more to it?
What do you think was the purpose of that cutscene? Is it just a poorly done attempt of a diversion from the writers or is there more to it?
There's nothing odd about it. The the end of Chapter 3 had Mythra wake up and use her power to save Rex. Chapter 4 begins with her flashing back to 500 years ago to the reason she doesn't want to use her power. Then the following scene has her blow up at Rex for forcing her to use her power. Her anger wouldn't be as easy to understand without the flashback. Giving a glimpse of it right before helps the scene flow better.
This discussion is utterly fascinating.
It feels like there is some kind of link to XCX, with both games' inciting incident being the destruction of the Earth. But they do seem like different scenarios why they would be destroyed. Could it be the XCX is the same Earth that results at the end of XC2 (technically our Earth) and the Whale departs way way way later for Mira? Although that doesn't make a ton of sense if they called their city New L.A... And then you'd have to explain why they called it Earth again and no Nopons escaped with them... Doesn't seem to make sense.
Maybe it's another parallel dimension, somehow.
It feels like there is some kind of link to XCX, with both games' inciting incident being the destruction of the Earth. But they do seem like different scenarios why they would be destroyed. Could it be the XCX is the same Earth that results at the end of XC2 (technically our Earth) and the Whale departs way way way later for Mira? Although that doesn't make a ton of sense if they called their city New L.A... And then you'd have to explain why they called it Earth again and no Nopons escaped with them... Doesn't seem to make sense.
Maybe it's another parallel dimension, somehow.
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It's not likely they are the same dimension. XCX is a world where, 30 years prior to the start of the game, Elma came to Earth and warned humanity about the Ganglion. For those 30 years humanity united in an effort to preserve the DNA of the planet and get it into space. The Ganglion arrived and decimated the Earth. XC2's world is one where humans have been fighting each other and the surface is in ruin by the time Klaus does his experiment. Those running the station were going to use Aion as a last resort (Aion being an artifice designed to destroy the world), but Klaus used the Zohar to create a new universe instead. Both of these events take place in the century 20XX. These 2 universes also parallel Xenogears and Xenosaga where the Earth also got destroyed/lost in different ways in 20XX.
Just beat the game. I have... many thoughts.
First of all, that line from Shulk was probably my favorite part. I mean, seeing the XC1 ending scene again was already fanservice enough and damn that line was just so freaking good and hit right in the feels. So glad I played in English, would have really missed a TON of that impact with Japanese audio.
Overall I feel like the story in XC2 felt a lot... looser than with XC1. XC1 did a much better job at tying up loose ends and making motivations clear but XC2 really... didn't. Like I'm still not sure why Malos was so intent on destroying everything? It kind of seems like he's just being affected by the people he's with the whole time and it never seems like he's the one who actually made any decisions for himself even if the game says he did because the logic to which he would have come to that decision isn't strong enough for it to be believable. At least Lao was pretty clearly seeking his own death but Malos doesn't even have that really. Was Jin's goal to kill all humans, kill the Architect, or destroy the world, I can't remember. And I was really hoping for Morag to get more development with Niall but nope, dude doesn't even get a cool death scene like Sorean or Kallian. I'm not even sure they explain why Pandoria can talk to Genbu unless I missed it somewhere? I thought they were going to do something with the revelation that Rex isn't really from Leftheria but that didn't go anywhere. And what was even the point of making Addam a mysterious cloaked dude. Just felt like a lot of strings that went nowhere. Oh and Pneuma should have just died at the end, just felt like the emotional moment was completely wasted and it would have neatly been the end of all that remained from the space station.
I'm also not a big fan of retconning the end events of XC1 though I guess I can live with the idea of Klaus' experiment being expanded on as long as the actual game's plotline is left intact with none of that Master Blade stuff leaking in and the Monado(s) still being physical representations of administrative privileges to the fabric of reality as overseen by True God Alvis vs magically drawing a bit of power from some unknown dimension like what Mythra does. I just really like how neatly tied up XC1 is and I don't really want any unrelated third parties or loose ends to be introduced. That and I am biased and dammit Alvis should get to be the most powerful. Also I don't want to see any Driver and Blade stuff leaking into XC1 talk especially since the Blade system was conceived after the XC1 universe was created so it makes no sense for those rules to apply in that universe. Would not mind a Ontos Replica for the DLC Blade though. Just call him Alvis Re: lol.
Don't really feel like the introduction of the Conduit does anything other than be kind of a forced Zohar reference since it is absolutely not explored at all and just disappears right after. I guess I can see it being used for future games though, maybe for some dimension hopping madness. Was there any reasoning why it disappeared after Klaus died? Maybe he forcefully linked to it which forced it to stay open in the XC2 universe but after he's dead it's no longer tied down and goes away? I kind of would have preferred for the jumping off point of the multiverse being the end of XC1 but I suppose if they really wanted to throw a Zohar into the series then Klaus' experiment would have been a more natural insertion/retcon point than having one randomly appear in Shulk's universe.
And FINALLY, I still don't get why Klaus created the Blade system. I get that they're to constantly transmit data but I don't see how that's supposed to prevent people like him from coming into existence. Somehow an increased amount of data is going to influence evolution of lifeforms so that they don't destroy the world?? Or was it more that they could copy the data of all that has ever lived on the planet so that they could rebuild it again if it were destroyed? Not clear...
Characters wise, Morag and Zeke ended up being my favorites which was kind of surprising because I didn't expect to like Zeke due to his trope but he turned out really well. It helped that those two got lots of back to back adults being badass moments. I liked Nia too but ugh did they really have to shoehorn in some unrequited love and not just have it like with Melia where she never makes a move but actually have Nia confess then have Rex turn her down in the stupidest way possible. It would have been so much more interesting for Rex and Pyra to be platonic and Rex and Nia be romantic because Rex/Pyra is just super awkward to me due to the physical age difference.
Anyways, now I get to dig into the post game so that should be fun. Still need one more rare Blade, hopefully it doesn't take too long. If New Game+ keeps all the affinity charts and makes getting rare blades easier then I might go for it but otherwise I'm just gonna sit here hoping for a XC1 HD remake or XCX2. Or XC3. I'm not picky.
First of all, that line from Shulk was probably my favorite part. I mean, seeing the XC1 ending scene again was already fanservice enough and damn that line was just so freaking good and hit right in the feels. So glad I played in English, would have really missed a TON of that impact with Japanese audio.
Overall I feel like the story in XC2 felt a lot... looser than with XC1. XC1 did a much better job at tying up loose ends and making motivations clear but XC2 really... didn't. Like I'm still not sure why Malos was so intent on destroying everything? It kind of seems like he's just being affected by the people he's with the whole time and it never seems like he's the one who actually made any decisions for himself even if the game says he did because the logic to which he would have come to that decision isn't strong enough for it to be believable. At least Lao was pretty clearly seeking his own death but Malos doesn't even have that really. Was Jin's goal to kill all humans, kill the Architect, or destroy the world, I can't remember. And I was really hoping for Morag to get more development with Niall but nope, dude doesn't even get a cool death scene like Sorean or Kallian. I'm not even sure they explain why Pandoria can talk to Genbu unless I missed it somewhere? I thought they were going to do something with the revelation that Rex isn't really from Leftheria but that didn't go anywhere. And what was even the point of making Addam a mysterious cloaked dude. Just felt like a lot of strings that went nowhere. Oh and Pneuma should have just died at the end, just felt like the emotional moment was completely wasted and it would have neatly been the end of all that remained from the space station.
I'm also not a big fan of retconning the end events of XC1 though I guess I can live with the idea of Klaus' experiment being expanded on as long as the actual game's plotline is left intact with none of that Master Blade stuff leaking in and the Monado(s) still being physical representations of administrative privileges to the fabric of reality as overseen by True God Alvis vs magically drawing a bit of power from some unknown dimension like what Mythra does. I just really like how neatly tied up XC1 is and I don't really want any unrelated third parties or loose ends to be introduced. That and I am biased and dammit Alvis should get to be the most powerful. Also I don't want to see any Driver and Blade stuff leaking into XC1 talk especially since the Blade system was conceived after the XC1 universe was created so it makes no sense for those rules to apply in that universe. Would not mind a Ontos Replica for the DLC Blade though. Just call him Alvis Re: lol.
Don't really feel like the introduction of the Conduit does anything other than be kind of a forced Zohar reference since it is absolutely not explored at all and just disappears right after. I guess I can see it being used for future games though, maybe for some dimension hopping madness. Was there any reasoning why it disappeared after Klaus died? Maybe he forcefully linked to it which forced it to stay open in the XC2 universe but after he's dead it's no longer tied down and goes away? I kind of would have preferred for the jumping off point of the multiverse being the end of XC1 but I suppose if they really wanted to throw a Zohar into the series then Klaus' experiment would have been a more natural insertion/retcon point than having one randomly appear in Shulk's universe.
And FINALLY, I still don't get why Klaus created the Blade system. I get that they're to constantly transmit data but I don't see how that's supposed to prevent people like him from coming into existence. Somehow an increased amount of data is going to influence evolution of lifeforms so that they don't destroy the world?? Or was it more that they could copy the data of all that has ever lived on the planet so that they could rebuild it again if it were destroyed? Not clear...
Characters wise, Morag and Zeke ended up being my favorites which was kind of surprising because I didn't expect to like Zeke due to his trope but he turned out really well. It helped that those two got lots of back to back adults being badass moments. I liked Nia too but ugh did they really have to shoehorn in some unrequited love and not just have it like with Melia where she never makes a move but actually have Nia confess then have Rex turn her down in the stupidest way possible. It would have been so much more interesting for Rex and Pyra to be platonic and Rex and Nia be romantic because Rex/Pyra is just super awkward to me due to the physical age difference.
Anyways, now I get to dig into the post game so that should be fun. Still need one more rare Blade, hopefully it doesn't take too long. If New Game+ keeps all the affinity charts and makes getting rare blades easier then I might go for it but otherwise I'm just gonna sit here hoping for a XC1 HD remake or XCX2. Or XC3. I'm not picky.
Finished,what a game.
XC1 connections,Stoicism references and even a fucking Zohar in everything-but-name...Takeda really wasn't joking when he said that "this story has the most Director Tetsuya Takahashi flair to date" lol
If i have to guess,they are probably pissed about the government (or whatever organization Klaus was part of) using the Zohar as an energy source or something like that.The fact that they bothered giving the rebel movement a name makes me hope there's the intention to further explore that time period in future games.
XC1 connections,Stoicism references and even a fucking Zohar in everything-but-name...Takeda really wasn't joking when he said that "this story has the most Director Tetsuya Takahashi flair to date" lol
If i have to guess,they are probably pissed about the government (or whatever organization Klaus was part of) using the Zohar as an energy source or something like that.The fact that they bothered giving the rebel movement a name makes me hope there's the intention to further explore that time period in future games.
I don't think Ontos is Alvis. I think Ontos is a tease for Xenoblade 3 and that Alvis is just an AI.
The way Klaus designed the blades was for them to imprint on the emotions of the person that awakened them. Amalthus had lost faith in humanity due to the horrors he experienced and deep down he wished for humanity to be wiped away. Malos imprinted on that deep desire in Amalthus' heart and believed that was his purpose. Rex even confronts him about it not really being his decision and he doesn't care because it's all he's ever known. Being Logos (logic) he draws the logical conclusion from his biased data that the world is wretched and, as part of the world, he's wretched, too. Everything is beyond saving so it must end. All of that came from Amalthus. Being Logos also means emotion isn't his role.
Jin is pretty complicated. The support he got from Malos made him promise to help Malos realize his goals, but Jin did not truly wish to die. He became convinced that humanity destroying the world like they did in the past was inevitable. He wanted to know the reason why Blades exist and free Blades from human control.
As for Alvis, well think of it this way. While Alvis is one of 3 cores of the Trinity Processor, he likely also is the "true god" possessing that core; hence his appearance in XC1 resembling the Wave Existence (god) from Xenogears.
Keep in mind that the decision to make XC1 a Xeno game didn't occur until late in development. It was actually Iwata's idea since he was a fan. Likely the original idea was for Monado: The Beginning of the World to just be a new series that just happened to share many themes with Xenogears and Xenosaga, hence XC1 having no outright references to the Zohar or anything like that. These retcons help cement the Xeno series connection.
While it's true the Blade system was started after the event, the Trinity Processor was part of the experiment and it's possible the cores always had avatar forms. Alvis is pretty different from the other 2, though, in that he knows what he is and speaks as god; which combined with his form resembling god's form in Xenogears makes me think that he really is god.
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Oh yeah, and to further the Holy Trinity connection. I've already mentioned that Pneuma is The Holy Spirit of the Trinity. Logos is associated with Christ:
"In John 1.1 the Greek word "LOGOS" is translated as "The Word" in most bible translations and is associated with the Christ, the Son of God. (John 1:14 "And the LOGOS was made flesh, and dwelt among us...")"
"By the word (logos) of the Lord the heavens were made, and by the breath (pneuma) of his mouth all their host (dynamis).— Psalm 33:6 (ESV)"
A connection for Ontos is less clear. What I gather is that they took influence from Philo, a Greek Philosopher who followed Plato who believed that true being (ontos) was reserved exclusively to God. He was around during the time of Christ and influenced Paul and possibly John.
Ontos could also mean that God is everything that exists (ontos), which is basically what the Xeno God is. The Wave Existence.
I was just thinking, given how XC2's world is pretty much running in parallel with XC1's, it feels fitting that most of the tracks sound so similar to each other. Like the later battle theme at The World Tree is pretty much Mechanical Rhythm. Gormott Province day theme is very similar to Guar Plains. Hell, Spirit Crucible Elpys theme is a note away from straight up being the Satorl Marshes Night theme. If this was intentional, that's a really cool way of foreshadowing this game is running in tandem with XC1.
"That below belt."
No kidding. Fuck you Pyra, that wasn't cool.
-siren and the other artifices clearly existed before alrest was created. But do we know much about the nature of them? I inferred that they are simply weapons used by the people in the beanstalk during the initial war, as siren-like artifices were seen battling other entities. But the fact that they have a halo seems like they represent something more.... are they linked to the Zohar at all?
-one thing I don't really get is the nature of core crystals. iirc, Klaus said they were around before the phase experiment as some kind of replacement for human brain cells (which would explain why he was easily able to turn them into a data collecting system). But what of those monsters in the land of morytha? Are they humans who had used the core crystals before hand, and so were able to (somewhat) survive the experiment, explaining why the now monsters have core crystals?
Also it's kinda weird to think that a core crystal might be a blade's brain since they share similar properties to an actual human brain.
I wonder if Claus intended flesh eaters and blade eaters to be a thing.
-one thing I don't really get is the nature of core crystals. iirc, Klaus said they were around before the phase experiment as some kind of replacement for human brain cells (which would explain why he was easily able to turn them into a data collecting system). But what of those monsters in the land of morytha? Are they humans who had used the core crystals before hand, and so were able to (somewhat) survive the experiment, explaining why the now monsters have core crystals?
Also it's kinda weird to think that a core crystal might be a blade's brain since they share similar properties to an actual human brain.
I wonder if Claus intended flesh eaters and blade eaters to be a thing.
I mean core crystal's being a blade's brain makes perfect sense all things considered given how they retain form and personality to some extent upon being resummoned even if they lose memories
Not siren-like; sirens:
They're war machines created by the people. Siren is their class. They have halos because the people that built them named their supercomputer after the Christian Trinity and hid their main base inside a church.
Yes, the monsters in Morytha were people. One of them drops an ID tag showing who they used to be. I'm guessing they got messed up by the nanomachines and core crystals sent to restructure Morytha into a habitable world. Amalthus' final form is basically the same thing but without him losing his personality.
Thank you for the insightful response! So I guess artifices are just humanity's weapons after all.Not siren-like; sirens:
They're war machines created by the people. Siren is their class. They have halos because the people that built them named their supercomputer after the Christian Trinity and hid their main base inside a church.
Yes, the monsters in Morytha were people. One of them drops an ID tag showing who they used to be. I'm guessing they got messed up by the nanomachines and core crystals sent to restructure Morytha into a habitable world. Amalthus' final form is basically the same thing but without him losing his personality.
I knew that monsters in morytha were once human, but I was a bit confused as to why they, specifically, survived. So they were patients that had used core crystal technology or something? That would be my guess.
Again, Thankyou, and sorry that I'm so clueless.
They had ID cards, so I'm guessing they were just Elysium staff who got fucked up by the nanomachines.
So my theory is this:
The homs prosper in the newly created world that Shulk oversaw, and eventually develop time-space travel. The the desire to explore alternate dimensions grows, and the information about the experiences of Shulk and co. is passed down for many years throughout this advancement.
Eventually they figure out time-space travel, and they actually hop dimensions.
Due to typical sci-fi rules around time-space/dimensional hopping, they wind up in the "real" universe in the veeeery distant past, and essentially assume the role of the Samaarians. The planetoid we eventually come to know as Mira is the first planet they come in to contact with, and the make it their unofficial new home. The ganglion states that they believe Mira was the Samaarian homeworld, but that they didn't come from Mira. That they used their technology to leap through dimensions.
Now, in earth history, we know nothing of Samaarians until we land on Mira. This is an ancient civilization that is biologically identical to humans, and yet were more advanced than humans many, many, many years ago. The only explanation is that the Samaarians came from the future. Now in their exit of Alvis's dimension and their colonization on Mira, Alvis either accompanied them passively, or was displaced during the dimensional hop. An aegis affixing itself to Mira is one of the only things that can explain away most of the magical properties that Mira has such as removing language barriers and keeping mimeosomes running despite all logic insisting they shouldn't with the lifehold destroyed. It's not perfect, as in he doesn't have god-like agency to recreate the world as freely as he can in the hom's old world, but things changed about the planet, obviously. There's even a Telethia, who has a major (and mysteriously vague) role in a quest.
The Samaarians have to be a human civilization that came to be outside of earth history. A human civilization with it's own unique beginning. It's the only thing that makes sense.
The event that leads X and 2, I have postulated, could possibly be the same event. It may not be blatantly clear and some ret-cons may be necessary in terms of specifics and details, but I feel both the conduit event and the alien war are told ambiguously enough that they can be theorized as being the same event. I just find it way too odd that during 2's flashback scenes, Klaus never really goes in to detail as to the who/what/where/when/why's of the major battle going on. It's almost like the game purposefully neglected to healthily inform us on the surrounding situation. Maybe it's not relevant to 2 specifically, because ultimately Alrest comes to be on the back of this conduit event, and so does Shulk's world.
In the mean time, the lucky lifeholds that manage to escape wind up absolving themselves of the entire situation, and their story is the one told in X.
The homs prosper in the newly created world that Shulk oversaw, and eventually develop time-space travel. The the desire to explore alternate dimensions grows, and the information about the experiences of Shulk and co. is passed down for many years throughout this advancement.
Eventually they figure out time-space travel, and they actually hop dimensions.
Due to typical sci-fi rules around time-space/dimensional hopping, they wind up in the "real" universe in the veeeery distant past, and essentially assume the role of the Samaarians. The planetoid we eventually come to know as Mira is the first planet they come in to contact with, and the make it their unofficial new home. The ganglion states that they believe Mira was the Samaarian homeworld, but that they didn't come from Mira. That they used their technology to leap through dimensions.
Now, in earth history, we know nothing of Samaarians until we land on Mira. This is an ancient civilization that is biologically identical to humans, and yet were more advanced than humans many, many, many years ago. The only explanation is that the Samaarians came from the future. Now in their exit of Alvis's dimension and their colonization on Mira, Alvis either accompanied them passively, or was displaced during the dimensional hop. An aegis affixing itself to Mira is one of the only things that can explain away most of the magical properties that Mira has such as removing language barriers and keeping mimeosomes running despite all logic insisting they shouldn't with the lifehold destroyed. It's not perfect, as in he doesn't have god-like agency to recreate the world as freely as he can in the hom's old world, but things changed about the planet, obviously. There's even a Telethia, who has a major (and mysteriously vague) role in a quest.
The Samaarians have to be a human civilization that came to be outside of earth history. A human civilization with it's own unique beginning. It's the only thing that makes sense.
The event that leads X and 2, I have postulated, could possibly be the same event. It may not be blatantly clear and some ret-cons may be necessary in terms of specifics and details, but I feel both the conduit event and the alien war are told ambiguously enough that they can be theorized as being the same event. I just find it way too odd that during 2's flashback scenes, Klaus never really goes in to detail as to the who/what/where/when/why's of the major battle going on. It's almost like the game purposefully neglected to healthily inform us on the surrounding situation. Maybe it's not relevant to 2 specifically, because ultimately Alrest comes to be on the back of this conduit event, and so does Shulk's world.
In the mean time, the lucky lifeholds that manage to escape wind up absolving themselves of the entire situation, and their story is the one told in X.
Thats a lot of assumptions that cannot be backed without another game. For all we know Mira could be the new world Shulk created. And we still don't know who the hooded figure was at the end of X.
Man. After taking my time and really loving the game, finding a bunch of secrets and all other goodies I can. Finishing all side-quests possible, etc. etc. I finally got to the first part of the game I actually just... absolutely hate.
Taking Nia and turning her into *Another* Rex only blade, and having her confess to him, and (from what I can tell) having her constantly in her new design just absolutely deflated all enjoyment I was having with the game. I just don't even get why they did it. There was no romantic build-up, there was nothing even hinting at it. It just came out of the damn blue. I was really hoping it'd keep the crappy love sub-plot to Pyra and Mythra and it wouldn't affect the other female cast. Especially not the one that seemed to be more annoyed by Rex than anything else. I feel like it's even more of a disappointment because I've been using Nia as the character I'm playing as, and of course I'm not gonna toss that away just to have to play as my least favorite character with her glued onto him.
Man. This was almost as frustrating as
The fact they had to do it twice now, is just... really frustrating. And ironically to both of my favorite characters.
I'm still right after that part in Chapter 8, so I'd prefer no spoilers that are later than that, but can someone tell me how many more chapters there are? Because I'm just so disappointed in this horrible cliche that I lost all motivation to play.
Taking Nia and turning her into *Another* Rex only blade, and having her confess to him, and (from what I can tell) having her constantly in her new design just absolutely deflated all enjoyment I was having with the game. I just don't even get why they did it. There was no romantic build-up, there was nothing even hinting at it. It just came out of the damn blue. I was really hoping it'd keep the crappy love sub-plot to Pyra and Mythra and it wouldn't affect the other female cast. Especially not the one that seemed to be more annoyed by Rex than anything else. I feel like it's even more of a disappointment because I've been using Nia as the character I'm playing as, and of course I'm not gonna toss that away just to have to play as my least favorite character with her glued onto him.
Man. This was almost as frustrating as
Melia had to deal with Shulk being goo-goo for Fiora. Except the difference is Shulk actually had somewhat of a personality.
I'm still right after that part in Chapter 8, so I'd prefer no spoilers that are later than that, but can someone tell me how many more chapters there are? Because I'm just so disappointed in this horrible cliche that I lost all motivation to play.
That wouldn't make any sense at all because Mira is not part of Alvis's dimension, there's nothing commensurate with that claim.
Of course there's a few assumptions but at least they are assumptions that fit with the information we have.
Also:
@above
There's 10 chapters.