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ColonialHawk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
938
South Carolina
Except they reset the universe by literally going back to the formula.

I think I agree with them for the most part, where there are interesting things that happen (even if they're essentially lifted from the EU and video games) but nothing can change because there's no room for Star Wars to grow in a film context. You can't make a movie without space ships blowing up and people talking about the Force because that's all the movies can be.

Yeah and that formula worked for the first because its been so long since a "Star Wars" film. But I feel like this is movie trying to get away from that formula. Its setup so that you take episode IX anywhere. It will depend on the director and writer.

At least thats what I want. I want more risks, more chances. If they dont work thats fine, they can learn from that failure.
 
OP
OP
Skiptastic

Skiptastic

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,699
What I would want to see is Rey going Kreia, but that was Luke's arch here and he rejected it, so she becoming a nihilist would undo this movie unless she goes for anarchy instead. No organized Jedi or Sith, but embracing the force as its most mystical. Really going all out on "anyone can be a Jedi and you can use the force whatever you want, fuck sides", but then again, here I am wishing for more world-building that is not actually a storyline on a movie.
Like, Rey is probably my favorite character of these new ones. Where do I want her story to go? She can't become a Badass Jedi Master™ because that's just her becoming another Luke, she can't give up being a Jedi because that's also her becoming another Luke. Everywhere interesting she can go has nothing to do with fighting people with laser swords.
I think people are forgetting how much of a "badass" Luke actually was in Return of the Jedi. He really wasn't at all.

He couldn't mind control Jabba.
He used his Force powers to pull a light saber to him, but still struggled to fight Jabba's guards without help.
He lifted C-3P0.
He got bested by the Emperor.
He DID beat Vader once he started getting super pissed at him.

Luke was never really all that badass of a Jedi, if you ask me. He was more of a badass pilot than a badass Jedi.

Hell, the prequel Jedi did more "badass" things than Luke did, which is exactly right, because they spent their whole lives training.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
I think people are forgetting how much of a "badass" Luke actually was in Return of the Jedi. He really wasn't at all.

He couldn't mind control Jabba.
He used his Force powers to pull a light saber to him, but still struggled to fight Jabba's guards without help.
He lifted C-3P0.
He got bested by the Emperor.
He DID beat Vader once he started getting super pissed at him.

Luke was never really all that badass of a Jedi, if you ask me. He was more of a badass pilot than a badass Jedi.

Hell, the prequel Jedi did more "badass" things than Luke did, which is exactly right, because they spent their whole lives training.
Original Trilogy was more grounded when it came to the Force and that is that when it comes to the Force in the OT.

The Prequels cranked up the physicality of the Force skills while the New Prequel now blesses characters who have to Force to skip training and just be Over Powered.

Can't compare Luke and Vader from the OT where there Force was more subtle with how the Force is being portrayed in later movies
 

PshycoNinja

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
3,224
Los Angeles
I expect the megacorporation spending a country's GDP in the movie to entertain me, goddamn it. I want those goddamn monkeys to dance!

I don't know. I really don't. I am playing with the idea in my head and right now the best I can come up is either for the saga to end or for we have just side-stories like Rogue One for now and only release a new numbered movie when you are ready to change the status quo completely as a framework to frame other side-movies.
So basically I want Disney to create a second Shared Universe that will drain our lives forever.

As a story, tho? As to where does Finn, Rey, Leia, Poe, Chewie and Rose goes from here? I have no idea. Afaik their stories ended. Finn and Rose found love for freedom on the battlefied. Rey rejected the dark side. Poe has become a leader. Kylo Ren has become an emperer that is also a Darth Vader so he surpassed both. And so on.
So what is next is nothing more than seeing this playing out. Seeing Rey being a Jedi. Seeing Poe being a leader. Seing Finn and Rose loving themselves while doing rebellion things and Kylo being a Darth Vader that answers to no one and so on and that sounds boring as fuck with action scenes that are cool, I guess.

What I would want to see is Rey going Kreia, but that was Luke's arch here and he rejected it, so she becoming a nihilist would undo this movie unless she goes for anarchy instead. No organized Jedi or Sith, but embracing the force as its most mystical. Really going all out on "anyone can be a Jedi and you can use the force whatever you want, fuck sides", but then again, here I am wishing for more world-building that is not actually a storyline on a movie.
Like, Rey is probably my favorite character of these new ones. Where do I want her story to go? She can't become a Badass Jedi Master™ because that's just her becoming another Luke, she can't give up being a Jedi because that's also her becoming another Luke. Everywhere interesting she can go has nothing to do with fighting people with laser swords.

*arc (sorry seeing a lot of people between this OT and the other SW thread saying "arch" and it's bugging me)

Anyways, I don't buy the Finn and Rose love. At all. At least Anakin and Padme wanted to bang and that came across in the Prequels. Here it just felt so...uninspired? Manufactured? Not real? I would say, honestly, the Finn and Rose love thing is the worse romance in the entirety of the SW movies.

just make a timeskip

leia dies of old age, finn and rey are now veterans chiefs of the rebellon that in the meanwhile has managed to rebuild itself from the ashes.
kylo is also now less of a instabile brat, or maybe it is but hids that under a facade of authority as the new emperor

after that,you cn do pretty much what you want since you are basically at the start of any star wars story ever..you can go with the usual,or do somethig new.

That's the problem. All the movies are supposed to feed into each other to tell an overarching tale. TLJ throws that out the window and now they have to start from scratch which isn't exciting to me. I didn't come out of the theater thinking, "Wow. Can't wait for the next one to resolve whatever problem is left." because that isn't what the movie did. It failed at being a movie that tells a narrative that supports the trilogy and help sets up the next movie. Even AotC understood that's what it needed to be.

And you can't do what you want, because now Abrams is boxed in with the choices Rian left him. If this movie was the final in the trilogy that would be one thing. But it isn't.
 
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firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,202
Yeah and that formula worked for the first because its been so long since a "Star Wars" film. But I feel like this is movie trying to get away from that formula. Its setup so that you take episode IX anywhere. It will depend on the director and writer.

At least thats what I want. I want more risks, more chances. If they dont work thats fine, they can learn from that failure.
It doesn't though.
You have a bad jedi, a good jedi, an empire, and the rebellion.
I don't think anything has "changed".

Maybe if Rian Johnson doens't get fired and replaced by Ron Howard for Star Wars 10-12, we might see something new, but this trilogy is basically done.
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
I think people are forgetting how much of a "badass" Luke actually was in Return of the Jedi. He really wasn't at all.

He couldn't mind control Jabba.
He used his Force powers to pull a light saber to him, but still struggled to fight Jabba's guards without help.
He lifted C-3P0.
He got bested by the Emperor.
He DID beat Vader once he started getting super pissed at him.

Luke was never really all that badass of a Jedi, if you ask me. He was more of a badass pilot than a badass Jedi.

Hell, the prequel Jedi did more "badass" things than Luke did, which is exactly right, because they spent their whole lives training.

I agree, but I mean as a character. The entire thing about the Last Jedi is about how he is literally a legendary warrior.
I guess it's one of those meta thingies that this movie has so much off. We really didn't see Luke ever being a legendary warrior, not even in this movie, but we think of him that way. In-universe that is also true. Nobody saw him doing shit except blowing up the death star on ANH, but still, people tell stories.

However Rey fucks up on ep. IX, if the arc is "she fights with laser swords, good guys win", then she is reduced to being a new Luke and that's a shame considering all the great work this movie did in telling her "forget Skywalkers, forget your parents, you do you".
 

PshycoNinja

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
3,224
Los Angeles
Yeah and that formula worked for the first because its been so long since a "Star Wars" film. But I feel like this is movie trying to get away from that formula. Its setup so that you take episode IX anywhere. It will depend on the director and writer.

At least thats what I want. I want more risks, more chances. If they dont work thats fine, they can learn from that failure.

I am all for taking risks. I just want them to work and be done/executed well. The Last Jedi's execution and pacing are it's biggest problems.
 

Unguided

Member
Oct 28, 2017
266
I think people are forgetting how much of a "badass" Luke actually was in Return of the Jedi. He really wasn't at all.

He couldn't mind control Jabba.
He used his Force powers to pull a light saber to him, but still struggled to fight Jabba's guards without help.
He lifted C-3P0.
He got bested by the Emperor.
He DID beat Vader once he started getting super pissed at him.

Luke was never really all that badass of a Jedi, if you ask me. He was more of a badass pilot than a badass Jedi.

Hell, the prequel Jedi did more "badass" things than Luke did, which is exactly right, because they spent their whole lives training.
True but the prequel Jedi lost due to their outmoded belief system. Luke won because he effectively rejected Yoda's teaching and used his emotions without truly falling. If anything, the Force within him at the end of Return of the Jedi was more balanced than the repressed Jedi masters who had come before.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
47,044
just make a timeskip

leia dies of old age, finn and rey are now veterans chiefs of the rebellon that in the meanwhile has managed to rebuild itself from the ashes.
kylo is also now less of a instabile brat, or maybe it is but hids that under a facade of authority as the new emperor

after that,you cn do pretty much what you want since you are basically at the start of any star wars story ever..you can go with the usual,or do somethig new.

Im thinking kylo, now drunk with power, creates a new, giant super weapon. Rey, Poe and Finn need to blow it up.
 

Deleted member 5549

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,198
is them not having any HiTB/Plinkett storyline in this episode a subtle way of telling us, what they think of removing TLJ from canon?

*tinfoilhat*
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
is them not having any HiTB/Plinkett storyline in this episode a subtle way of telling us, what they think of removing TLJ from canon?

*tinfoilhat*

No, but I do think it's a "we'll subvert expectations just because!" thing.

And also because they are hack frauds who got into a convoluted storyline involved a gay wedding fueled by a cake filled with gay hormones and they honestly don't know what to do with it.
 

Alienhated

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,549
is them not having any HiTB/Plinkett storyline in this episode a subtle way of telling us, what they think of removing TLJ from canon?

*tinfoilhat*
This whole episode itself was pretty barebones and simplistic, no actual set, no Plinkett skits, very basic editing, etc.

I think they just rushed their review the more they could after their Fandango incident.
 

Deleted member 5549

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,198
but...but... they could've used the Fandango incident in the wedding scenario, where Fandango canceled their reservations where ever they were about to have their ceremony and then we would have Jay in a wedding dress talk about TLJ for 40 minutes.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
I'm really surprised that they had the "nothing happened" criticism.
The notion that because Finn/Rose failed, then nothing happened, when their failure is the impetus for the final act, is something I find baffling among the criticisms for the movie. As well as the "why didn't they just tell Poe?" criticism; Poe's importance as a protagonist doesn't make him important as a crew member. We're shown him to be a hot-headed rogue whose aggressive attack cost lives, followed by a tense situation onboard where people are actively trying to desert the ship. Why would she tell him what is going on?
 
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firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,202
I'm really surprised that they had the "nothing happened" criticism. The notion that because Finn/Rose failed, then nothing happened, when their failure is the impetus for the final act, is something I find baffling among the criticisms for the movie. As well as the "why didn't they just tell Poe?" criticism; Poe's importance as a protagonist doesn't make him important as a crew member. We're shown him to be a hot-headed rogue whose aggressive attack cost lives, followed by a tense situation onboard where people are actively trying to desert the ship. Why would she tell him what is going on?
I don't even know what's a spoiler anymore. lol
The Finn stuff was useless because all it did was get them to have a Finn vs Phasma moment (which everyone wanted???????????). Everything else would have just happened in exactly the same way whether or not they went on the mission to do something that didn't really matter. The thing with Poe didn't really matter either, because he would have learned the exact same thing whether or not he decided to try to take over the ship.
 
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More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
I don't even know what's a spoiler anymore. lol

The Finn stuff was useless because all it did was get them to have a Finn vs Phasma moment (which everyone wanted???????????). Everything else would have just happened in exactly the same way whether or not they went on the mission to do something that didn't really matter. The thing with Poe didn't really matter either, because he would have learned the exact same thing whether or not he decided to try to take over the ship.
Could you spoiler tag my quote? Sorry about that
Finn and co failing is what led to the FO attacking the transport ships. If they hadn't done that, the decoy plan would have worked and the transport ships wouldn't have been targeted
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,202
Could you spoiler tag my quote? Sorry about that
Finn and co failing is what led to the FO attacking the transport ships. If they hadn't done that, the decoy plan would have worked and the transport ships wouldn't have been targeted
Wouldn't they have just tracked down the fleet eventually and blew them up anyway?
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
Wouldn't they have just tracked down the fleet eventually and blew them up anyway?
No, the transport ships wouldn't be noticed; the FO would continue following the cruiser while the Resistance hid on the planet and let the FO pass by. The only reason the transport ships get targeted is because DJ betrays Finn and Rose and alerts the FO to their plan.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,202
No, the transport ships wouldn't be noticed; the FO would continue following the cruiser while the Resistance hid on the planet and let the FO pass by. The only reason the transport ships get targeted is because DJ betrays Finn and Rose and alerts the FO to their plan.
I was just thinking in the grand scheme of things. It's not like Hux would just give up when he noticed that none of the other ships were there after blowing up the Cruiser. But I suppose that's just fan speculation crap that's not worth getting into. lol
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
The point of Finn going to casino planet was to show how the (literal) little people are abused while the rich are evil. It is my least favorite part of the movie and there could be a million ways to set up something like that better (instead of a codebreaker, they could have gone to steal a cloaking device from some rich dude or something, Phasma could even be there to confiscate this same device, and there's your action), but, anyway, Finn's POV is supposed to be that of someone who is learning why the rebeliion is needed and who they are fighting for. The movie kind of fucks it up, but that's it.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,202
The point of Finn going to casino planet was to show how the (literal) little people are abused while the rich are evil. It is my least favorite part of the movie and there could be a million ways to set up something like that better (instead of a codebreaker, they could have gone to steal a cloaking device from some rich dude or something, Phasma could even be there to confiscate this same device, and there's your action), but, anyway, Finn's POV is supposed to be that of someone who is learning why the rebeliion is needed and who they are fighting for. The movie kind of fucks it up, but that's it.
You'd think blowing up 4 planets is reason enough to have a "rebellion". What they don't explain is why these people would want to work for the space equivalent of white surpremacists other than "money". But it's not like class has ever been a thing in Star Wars, because the movies have been so shallow anyway. Like you're allowed to keep slaves on Tattooine, and no one cared about that even before the Empire came around.
 

Brot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,068
the edge
I'm a little surprised that I agree with them on this review. I expected at least one of them to like it more. I really, really liked a lot of ideas that they touched on in this movie but they never followed through and that was pretty annoying. Because if they at least did that, I wouldn't have minded the misplaced humor and the pacing issues all that much.

That said, I still want to know how they end this trilogy. Probably even more because of how TLJ ended. What a weird movie.
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
I'm withholding from watching the review and from talking about it in the dedicated thread until I watch the movie. Because it definitely seems like a thread you could get absolutely ganged up on for saying one thing or another too far on one side of the argument.
 

Oreoleo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,958
Ohio
I'm really surprised they complained about
Luke force projecting himself at the end instead of being there in person. Feels like they kinda missed the point of what no one in-universe actually seeing him die accomplishes even though it's kinda spelled out in the last scene of the movie with the kids talking about his heroism.

Other than that I thought most of their criticism was on point and not just trolling Star Wars fans like some of their RO one stuff was.
 

NR1

Member
Oct 25, 2017
225
Dallas, TX
Mike, Jay, and Rich will hate it. I would be shocked if they didn't tear into the Finn/Rose side story being pointless. They will make vistas jokes, but they will be underwhelmed. They will probably like it more than RO and the prequels, but. It as much as TFA.

Damn, almost right on the money with my prediction!

They didn't like it, hate the Finn/Rose story, made a vistas joke right out of the gate, didn't like it as much as TFA, and clearly enjoyed it more than the prequels except when the film went to the casino planet and they got prequel PTSD. What's my reward????
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
Honestly just sounds like RLM is done with Star Wars more than anything else. Especially considering that super fan rant at the end.
 

Crepuscular

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
400
They basically share my general thoughts on the movie, though I liked it more than they did. I wanted to love it, but I can't. But yeah, most of the "big" complaints certain people have about why they hate the movie, I don't share at all, and in fact like a lot of that stuff. There's just a lot of little quibbles with the details. They use the word messy in this, and I used the word "scattered" right when I got out of the theater, specifically about the first half/two-thirds of the movie.

I feel like The Force Awakens is an unambitious movie where every single detail is polished to perfection, and this is an ambitious movie that's insanely rough around the edges. I don't have any particular gripe with the story told, but like....it needed another draft or something. There's a lot of "huh?" moments and pacing/editing choices. The highs are higher than anything in TFA, but the lows are much lower.
 

Rydeen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,500
Seattle, WA.
I don't have any particular gripe with the story told, but like....it needed another draft or something. There's a lot of "huh?" moments and pacing/editing choices. The highs are higher than anything in TFA, but the lows are much lower.

I agree with this, and I really do blame Lucasfilm / Disney's strident release schedule on these films. They really should be spacing these out every three years the way George did rather than every other year, it's way too fast to put together a movie like this, and leads to screenplays that have the core root of a good idea but really, really need more time in the oven. I really think that this is going to impact the brand in a negative way soon, just watering down the value of the Star Wars brand.

On the note of the RLM review, I loved Mike mis-remembering Yoda dancing in a G-string, just the editing and the music destroyed me.
 

Vault

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,618
Now just need the Christmas special
GranularEnchantedHamster-small.gif
 

Euphony

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,594
I hope it's better than last year, or at least has a better theme. Christmas or Crocodile was kind of lame.