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Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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It doesn't help when you repeatedly refuse to name and link to that content...
Oh?
What game is (was) this from by the way? She looks badass.One of the coolest looking character designs I've seen (male or female) ...
Was dropped in favour of a more curvaceous and "sexy" model. They even have some dream sequence bits where she's walking around in a negligee for christ sake. I'm sure it makes sense narratively, but it's such a shame they replaced this model. I ended up not playing the game because of it. Not because I was so outraged by BEWBS (I'm not) but because I was disappointed they'd switched out one of the best designs for one that just looked fairly generic.
I don't mind linking sources I just wondered if it would serve any purpose in the circumstance where it's already assumed they must be "raging mysoginists" before I've even named a channel.
I can go through my history though and pull them up and post them, it has been a while and I wouldn't say I'm an active subscriber or follower of channels that engage in those kinds of social politics regularly except maybe Philip De Franco. Give me some time.
Shit, I wish I'd seen that.
Then again, the pattern is so intensely familiar and tedious, I should've made that decision on my own, anyway.
That's.. not remotely true and AFIK, there's no data on what you just said. The best-selling franchises/games on Japan are Splatoon, Pokémon, Yokai Watch, Mario, Zelda, Yakuza, Monster Hunter, Animal Crossing, Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Kirby, Minecraft, Dark Souls and others.. and these are pretty mainstream ones in Japan with some of these being huge popular for the market. What you're talking about that are totally focused on it sells below of 5k and almost never appear in the rankings of media-create/famitsu, save for maybe Senran Kagura or Dead or Alive.
It's definitely true, and there's market data to support it. The data also shows that catering to the otaku subculture is a dead-end, as the Japanese games market continues withering domestically.
http://neojaponisme.com/2011/11/28/the-great-shift-in-japanese-pop-culture-part-one/ (five part series on what happened to the japanese culture markets and why the otaku is damaging them)
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Famitsu_2007_video_game_sales (famitsu 2007 sales - for reference, you can see the shrinking of sales by using this to see where game sales once were)
http://www./forum/showthread.php?t=1170242 (famitsu 2015 sales - sales are up, sort of, for a handful of the top ten games, but overall sales of games have continued to tank)
I know that the market was shrinking because of the home consoles.
I'm saying that the most popular franchises of the market aren't really focusing on it and are pretty much popular and mainstream so they don't need to cater to it at all. Also, to see if we're talking to the same thing, what do you consider for otaku pandering? And what those franchises that I mentioned do about it? Just curious.
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The mainstream doesn't end at ten to fifteen games. Though more to the point, representation and diversity even in the mainstream is still problematic for women. It's definitely still a problem in Japan too, especially if we're talking something like Yakuza (though I don't personally think it's mainstream anyway), which is still damseling characters in 2017.
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My bad, I updated my post before you responded it. Either way, Yakuza isn't really that mainstream and I agree, It was a bad example even if it sells really well in Japan. But the majority of the others are still good in my book, maybe with the exception of Dark Souls that sells like Yakuza.
Are they? I searched too and it seems the last relevant news about her was from 2016.
But yeah, the Alison Rapp debacle will never not be bizarre to me. As far as censorship and anime-related discussions go, she was ideologically-aligned with the people that were harassing her. She was just as upset about stuff getting cut out for the Fire Emblem Fates localization. And yet they went after her nonetheless. Just goes to show GG wasn't about having a set ideology, it was about harassing people. Though conversely the other side didn't seem to know how to tackle it either, and I said as much on the old site when the whole thing went down.
cosmicblizzard dont quote me here but wasnt she happy people were mad about the removal of the touching mini game in Fates?
Don't remember that. Maybe afterwards just to spite the people that were harassing her? I distinctly remember a tweet saying she spoke out against the removal, albeit very passively and didn't really care that much.
Sales are down because the market is shrinking, because the market being targeted is now, more than ever, the otaku. They are an extreme minority, that also have no potential for growth.
I lost a much longer post because Windows 10 sucks, so I'm just going to say that Anita provides plenty of good advice for how this stuff can be fixed. Additionally, plenty of approaches to fixing rampant sexism in games have also been offered within this thread. What I consider otaku pandering isn't really relevant, since we're talking about the otaku market and their needs and particular interests are well-documented (see the neojaponisme series of articles previously linked).
I'm pretty uniformed on her, but while she seems to be critical, she doesn't seem to be staunchly against FF as she was backing it. We should probably move on from this topic though.
Hidden content
Yeah, the whole thing with Rapp is what convinced me that GG was nothing but a misogynistic campaign against any women involved in games who didn't lick the boots of their male overlords. She was for the very things they claimed to be fighting for, yet they attacked her nonetheless. Like I already knew it was filled with bad eggs, but nothing after that could convince me anyone calling themselves a 'gamergater' or whatever term they used for whining about Fates (I swear they co-opted "Operation Rainfall", but I don't remember) was nothing but a pig.
Not really, sales are down and the market was shrinking because more than ever, mobile is much bigger than before with Japan being a big part of this market along China. In fact, Handheld game was always bigger than consoles and since the past generation, handhelds are the only consoles with a huge market in there with the DS, 3DS and now with the Switch. But this is too much off-topic.
And I'm talking about what you consider otaku pandering because the best-selling franchises and games of Japan aren't using it at all. These games that I mentioned don't have what I consider it. Even FFXV isn't what you can say that is focusing on it because sexualized characters or women isn't inherent to it and it's always happened in japanese media with or without otaku.
Even assuming this is true, it doesn't provide a good argument for how sexism is getting better or how the otaku subculture isn't a target for sales. Seriously, mobile games are basically the breeding grounds for the grossest otaku pandering currently available on the market. So saying everyone's moving away from the pandering on consoles to the even more egregious pandering in the mobile market isn't a strong argument for how things are getting better (and it certainly doesn't present a viable non-mobile market).
Sexism is still sexism, whether you're focusing on it or not, and it's still rampant in most of the best-selling games from Japan. If we're talking about Japan, we aren't talking about a case study like FFXV. We're talking about wider trends in the market.
The, but what about violence posts actually cause me physical harm
you probably shouldn't call them the alt-right tho
I'm not really saying that it's getting better because it's not. And I don't believe that it's going to get better because this thing that happen in this media are part of Japanese culture in general and not the good ones. If you ask me, for video game, anime, manga, LN, TV, shows, movies and most of the japanese entertainment media to get better, Japan itself needs to change because the problem is more in the country than in these medias. The different media just show what the country has already normalized. So, my point is, they can get better but they need to know they're doing something wrong and to reach this point, it's going to take centuries to the society itself to know it and to change.
I see it much more cyclically than that. The media reflects the people and the people reflect on the media. The issue is, the more the problem is fed, the worse it continues to get, and right now that's exactly what's happening. Fixing it means the media does need to be disrupted, but negative disruption, which is what happened in the mid to late 2000s in Japan, has caused a much bigger cultural problem that needs to be addressed by everyone, instead of letting it fester like a wound within the culture. And disrupting it will have to be done from within, because fixing the problem is an issue of changing perceptions of women that have been reinforced for literally thousands of years. Snowballing that first step out of the dark ages will be the key.
I imagine once they progress through some of the more serious societal issues facing women(and men), then people will start to turn inward and examine the media to a larger degree.
I have real perspective on this, just conjecture.
I was on the verge of pointing this out. You can't mention her name and expect people to discuss the subject matter of her videos. You just can't. The discussion will always turn to critiquing Anita.
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Cor, first post here. I'd better be relevant then, hadn't I? Don't want to leave a bad first impression!
http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/post/120872274159/olgaulanova-americanninjax-isaia
That's sort of relevant and, I think, sums up some of the things women must deal with in mainstream entertainment. For those who might not understand what's being referenced, look at just about anything in comic books. Or, more specifically in this case, look up DC's Power Woman.
One other thing I'd like to share, on a more somber note...
https://youtu.be/Ztg2HhSjUwg
This is how my partner can sometimes feel and it hurts me a great deal. Objectified women in Western culture has lead to the mockery of women who aren't submissive to men, seen but not heard, conventionally attractive, and worryingly thin. Some of those things my partner doesn't want to be as she has a mind of her own that she likes thinking independent thoughts with, others she cannot be because genetics. So it continues to hurt her and people in general feel little empathy or sympathy.
If you don't think these attitudes still exist? Look no further than the Alt-Right, or even more moderate Conservative outlooks, there are thousands of articles talking about this and about how they're proud of misogyny. It damages people, removes inclusivity and agency, and screws up national cultures for generations. I mean, did you know that there are cosmetics sold to achieve 'that perfect Photoshopped look?'
It's why the objectification of that exact type of thin, sexy women as literally objectified blades in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 bothers me. It just serves to further normalise that attitude, the one that's made my partner's life a living hell just for being chubby. I think games edevelopers, publishers, and localisation teams need to own responsibility for the hurt and damage they absolutely can and do cause, as only then will things improve. They need to be accountable. If you're encouraging young men to look at women as objects, as tiered rewards to be won, with 'substandard rewards for substandard people?' Then yes, you're absolutely responsible. And that's exactly what Xenoblade Chronicles 2 does! 'Grind to be worthy of the best woman object blade reward thing.'
Anyway, I'll leave my first post at that. I hope it was a good one?
Thanks for reading!
-- Caw
(Sorry for any typos I missed, I'm dyslexic but I do try to catch them.)
(Also, yes, I'm aware that my avatar is indeed a Currawong, it is so because reasons.)
(Other topics I considered bringing up, but didn't: 'Cor, have you seen the sternum busters on almost all instances of boobplate? Blimey.' and 'Do video game artists understand how physics and spines actually work?')
http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/post/120872274159/olgaulanova-americanninjax-isaia
That's sort of relevant and, I think, sums up some of the things women must deal with in mainstream entertainment. For those who might not understand what's being referenced, look at just about anything in comic books. Or, more specifically in this case, look up DC's Power Woman.
One other thing I'd like to share, on a more somber note...
https://youtu.be/Ztg2HhSjUwg
This is how my partner can sometimes feel and it hurts me a great deal. Objectified women in Western culture has lead to the mockery of women who aren't submissive to men, seen but not heard, conventionally attractive, and worryingly thin. Some of those things my partner doesn't want to be as she has a mind of her own that she likes thinking independent thoughts with, others she cannot be because genetics. So it continues to hurt her and people in general feel little empathy or sympathy.
If you don't think these attitudes still exist? Look no further than the Alt-Right, or even more moderate Conservative outlooks, there are thousands of articles talking about this and about how they're proud of misogyny. It damages people, removes inclusivity and agency, and screws up national cultures for generations. I mean, did you know that there are cosmetics sold to achieve 'that perfect Photoshopped look?'
It's why the objectification of that exact type of thin, sexy women as literally objectified blades in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 bothers me. It just serves to further normalise that attitude, the one that's made my partner's life a living hell just for being chubby. I think games edevelopers, publishers, and localisation teams need to own responsibility for the hurt and damage they absolutely can and do cause, as only then will things improve. They need to be accountable. If you're encouraging young men to look at women as objects, as tiered rewards to be won, with 'substandard rewards for substandard people?' Then yes, you're absolutely responsible. And that's exactly what Xenoblade Chronicles 2 does! 'Grind to be worthy of the best woman object blade reward thing.'
Anyway, I'll leave my first post at that. I hope it was a good one?
Thanks for reading!
-- Caw
(Sorry for any typos I missed, I'm dyslexic but I do try to catch them.)
(Also, yes, I'm aware that my avatar is indeed a Currawong, it is so because reasons.)
(Other topics I considered bringing up, but didn't: 'Cor, have you seen the sternum busters on almost all instances of boobplate? Blimey.' and 'Do video game artists understand how physics and spines actually work?')
I don't think that thin, sexy women is the problem with XC2.
If anything the body types might be too... diverse?
If anything the body types might be too... diverse?
Wow, went and read that thread and it sure was an exercise in mental gymnastics with the standard arguments.
"Stop censoring artists, devs should be able to make what they want."
"Whoops we didn't want cameltoe in this game."
"Why are you afraid of the human body?? What about violence?!"
"Bikini battle armor w/ high heels is fine for female warriors because games don't need to be realistic anyway."
"Cameltoe is extremely realistic, I see at least 40 cameltoes a day, what's the problem."
Pick an argument gdi.
Pretty much sums it up for me as well.
Any and all dissenting content was always harshly dismissed so it was difficult to break the ehcochamber.
This user was warned for this post: Previously warned by moderation to read OP and decided to whine about moderation instead
Well its hard to comment on this subject, because you get easily banned. I dont see whats the hole point of this topic, if you cant freely comment.
Come on plenty of people from any perspective commented without being banned.
Either post what you think or not, but there's no need to come here already playing the victim.
Just my opinion, but really, it depends on the way you explain your arguments. As long as we're not dismissive and as long as we are respectful and listen to each other, I think it's perfectly fine.
Problem is that topic has been discussed for a long time (and continues to be discussed), and some people are tired to repeat the same arguments again and again, because we are stuck in a loop where some participants are not open to the arguments/opinions/feelings of the others.
If you (a "you" in general I mean) come to the thread to shitpost and say "lol ur prude lmao burka"/"go play something else", then yeah, you can get banned because you don't contribute to anything, you just try to shut the conversation down, and in the end, it's very difficult to have a serious, civil and reasonable discussion.
Also people feel like they have this severe and desperate need to make a thread called "why women criticize sexualised character designs" all about them. Which is one of the reasons why discussions derail. We're talking about stuff that affects and upsets a large group of people, but dudes come in saying "well I for one" when the subject is not "what dudes think of character designs", or posting defensive arguments that essentially boil down to "stop personally attacking ME, the actual victim" when no one is doing that.
If you're civil and you want to get into the nitty gritty of various designs and how they function and how the serve the character and whether they qualify as objectification, there's not going to be an issue and it can be a heated but civil discussion. If you come in saying "I don't see the big deal" or "my (X) friend says" or "sex sells!!!" or "don't take my boobs away" people are going to boo you off the stage.
If you're civil and you want to get into the nitty gritty of various designs and how they function and how the serve the character and whether they qualify as objectification, there's not going to be an issue and it can be a heated but civil discussion. If you come in saying "I don't see the big deal" or "my (X) friend says" or "sex sells!!!" or "don't take my boobs away" people are going to boo you off the stage.
To be fair at least we stopped having people say crazy shit like "Objectification is a cosmic truth" or "Feminists are secretly attempting to control the world and outlaw pornography" anymore.
It's Velvet Assassin on 360, but as I say they switched the model to a way less memorable one. The game is loosely based on Violette Szabo a real WW2 spy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violette_Szabo
There's one thing that I feel like pointing our about some of the terminology in this thread, specifically the term "objectification". Videogame characters are ALL designed to be objectified. That's one of their key purposes and is a knock on effect of having had someone sit there for hours carefully modelling them, texturing them, rigging them and animating them. They're literally designed to be looked at. Be it, Batman and his famously labour intensive cape or the the painfully buxom girls of dead or alive beach volleyball. The issue is not objectification on it's own, it's all to do with context, balance and intent. If we want to move games out of the domain of teenage boys (which to be honest I think we did 10 years ago for the most part) then we need to realise this. Personally I have no problem with Cammy wearing a thong as long Urien is also wearing one, however imagine if the male characters in 40% of all your games dressed like this for no reason. You might find it a little, boring/ridiculous/uncomfortable/demeaning.
1) im sure its been talked that you usually dont see men characters in those attires cause its not what sells, not even trying to make em appealing to women (FFXV is more on that vein)
2) who can do say (or not) that it will be the case is male characters start to only wear a lion cloth or
so this is what its like to look at 'clothing' and instinctively think "why would anyone ever wear that, it would be so uncomfortable"
damn is this what it feels like every time for y'all?
damn is this what it feels like every time for y'all?
Very interesting thread, congrats OP.
I think the problem is at 3 levels :
First, as Men, we need to change. We do not respect women enough and this is not even up for debate. Do we really need boob physics in a fghting game ? I mean, come on now ! Let's push back to those kind of things.
Secondly, we also need to reckon that problem is more important in some regions. I have nothing against Japan, on the contrary, I've been fan of manga and japanimation since the 80s. But it's fair to say their view on women nudity in games is not the same as it is the West. It's a cultural thing, so it's complicated. But in a social media age, maybe things are easier to change... And to be perfectly honest that nudity was also a reason why I was attracted to japanese anime. I mean is Ninja Scroll ( my favourite anime of all time ), the same without its mature content ? I don't think so... So we are also to blame in the West as we embrace it. However, nudity is also a form of Art, so all nudity should not be banned. The gratuitous nudity should, but how to determine the limit ?
The other issue is that we do not have enough female devs in the industry that can provide a female point of view in games. For example, in cinema, it was refreshing to have a woman take on Wonder Woman. Loved it ! Yes we have very influencal women the likes of Jade Raymond or Amy Henning. But it's not enough.
So I think it's a complicated debate, but clearly as Men we need to make some efforts. For a starter, let's not embrace games that favor gratuitous nudity of women. The power of wallet is still strong in the world...
I think the problem is at 3 levels :
First, as Men, we need to change. We do not respect women enough and this is not even up for debate. Do we really need boob physics in a fghting game ? I mean, come on now ! Let's push back to those kind of things.
Secondly, we also need to reckon that problem is more important in some regions. I have nothing against Japan, on the contrary, I've been fan of manga and japanimation since the 80s. But it's fair to say their view on women nudity in games is not the same as it is the West. It's a cultural thing, so it's complicated. But in a social media age, maybe things are easier to change... And to be perfectly honest that nudity was also a reason why I was attracted to japanese anime. I mean is Ninja Scroll ( my favourite anime of all time ), the same without its mature content ? I don't think so... So we are also to blame in the West as we embrace it. However, nudity is also a form of Art, so all nudity should not be banned. The gratuitous nudity should, but how to determine the limit ?
The other issue is that we do not have enough female devs in the industry that can provide a female point of view in games. For example, in cinema, it was refreshing to have a woman take on Wonder Woman. Loved it ! Yes we have very influencal women the likes of Jade Raymond or Amy Henning. But it's not enough.
So I think it's a complicated debate, but clearly as Men we need to make some efforts. For a starter, let's not embrace games that favor gratuitous nudity of women. The power of wallet is still strong in the world...
I think SFV is a good example when we talk about "lack of balance".
On the one hand, male characters are very diverse: you have Ken and Vega who are the "handsome men"; Zangief, Abigail and Alex for the "giant muscular men"; Birdie who is overweight; FANG who is very tall and thin; Dhalsim and Zeku for the "old men" category, etc.
But on the other hand, what about the women? Well, they obviously aren't as diverse. I'd say the only woman who is quite different from the others is actually Mika who could fit in the "tall muscular woman" category, while staying cute.
Female characters are either cute girls or pretty women that always stay young whereas the men have different body types and can be very old without any problem. Ironically, correct me if I'm wrong, Ed seems to be the youngest character in the roster but because of lore reasons, he looks like an adult (experiments and all that, his body grows faster than normal, he looked like a teenager before).
And then some people say, "why do you want to play an ugly/fat/old female character" and then I just think, "huh well, you don't ask yourself that question when you see or play ugly/fat/old male characters? What's the problem as long as the character is fun?".
And in the end, what does it mean? It's okay for men to be ugly/fat/old but it's not acceptable for women?
I guess it's because SFV is a fighting game that mainly targets the male audience, and that there aren't many women playing fighting games (I suppose, I don't know about the number), but I don't think a bit more diversity will hurt the game lol it could even bring more people, so why not?
On the one hand, male characters are very diverse: you have Ken and Vega who are the "handsome men"; Zangief, Abigail and Alex for the "giant muscular men"; Birdie who is overweight; FANG who is very tall and thin; Dhalsim and Zeku for the "old men" category, etc.
But on the other hand, what about the women? Well, they obviously aren't as diverse. I'd say the only woman who is quite different from the others is actually Mika who could fit in the "tall muscular woman" category, while staying cute.
Female characters are either cute girls or pretty women that always stay young whereas the men have different body types and can be very old without any problem. Ironically, correct me if I'm wrong, Ed seems to be the youngest character in the roster but because of lore reasons, he looks like an adult (experiments and all that, his body grows faster than normal, he looked like a teenager before).
And then some people say, "why do you want to play an ugly/fat/old female character" and then I just think, "huh well, you don't ask yourself that question when you see or play ugly/fat/old male characters? What's the problem as long as the character is fun?".
And in the end, what does it mean? It's okay for men to be ugly/fat/old but it's not acceptable for women?
I guess it's because SFV is a fighting game that mainly targets the male audience, and that there aren't many women playing fighting games (I suppose, I don't know about the number), but I don't think a bit more diversity will hurt the game lol it could even bring more people, so why not?
It is an interesting word, isn't it? And one I often feel gets mixed up with sexualisation. If we're playing semantics here, then the key element is 'object,' as in the person is reduced to one. That's actually what it means. Though I see a lot of people use it when they mean sexualised.
Is that man sexualised? Somewhat, yes! He's wearing a jockstrap with a bulge protruding from it. But the game isn't giving it special attention with the camera or poses to exaggerate it. If you want to know what I mean by that, check out the Superman example in my first post.
Is he as sexualised as most women? No, not really. Until we have groin bulges, perverted cameras, and poses to exaggerate them, it's not even a fit comparison.
Here's where it gets a little interesting, though! What does it mean to be an object? You have an owner or someone who acts very much like it, and you aren't realised as a personality thst is separate from your owner. You have no personal agency.
Is the man in question lacking agency? Not that I know of.
Is the man in question relying on an owner for identity? Again, no.
Is the man in question treated like something to be owned or won? No.
Now, let's look at a woman from Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Pyra, for example.
Is Pyra secualised? Her sexual assets are exaggerated and regularly drawn attention to by a perverted camera and ssxy poses. So, yes.
Is Pyra lacking personal agency? She can't do anything without Rex. So, yes.
Is Pyra relying on her owner for identity? Rex often speaks for her, and aside from her initial wish, he tends to embody her quest. Without Rex, no one would know of her at all. So, yes.
Is Pyra treated like an object to be owned or reward to be won? Yes to the first part, she's Rex's blade. No to the second as her acquisition was at least better than the other blades. Still, she is an object in Rex's possession, quite literally. So, yes.
So we can say that Pyra is sexualised far more than your example, we can also say that your example isn't objectified at all whereas Pyra is. Does that make sense?
I'm with my partner for more time than not, we do everything together. I see some people in relationships and it's like they barely know one another. Is this an autistic thing? (We both are.) But anyway, from all the time we spend together and all that we share? Yes. Yes, every time.
"Those boobs are too big to hold up even with proper musculature, there's no musculature there! And the way her spine is bent... God, how is she still alive?"
"That boob plate presses right in against her sternum. No! One good whack there and her sternum would shatter!"
"I look at vacuum packed clothes and I see a bunch of guys who don't know how bras work. Are they all single???"
"She has a strap holding up her boobs! That'd chafe so bad! Do these guys not know that boobs are soft and sensitive? They aren't leathery footballs!!!"
"Her boobs are floating and behaving like a non-Newtonian fluid! Helium??? But that still doesn't explain... What even?"
And I could go on like this.
So, yes. It's really painful for her.
Long thread. As a man, I just wanted to say I agree with the OP. Firstly, as a creative, because I find overly sexualised designs boring, predictable and immersion breaking, and secondly, as an RPG fan, becuase if I'd have been playing HZD as mini-skirted nymphet splling suggestively out of my rabbit fur bikini while moaning with ecstacy everytime I got plowed into the dirt by a three-hundred tonne mecha-dino, I feel like it'd have pulled me out of the experience a bit.
It's also massively sexist, which I also have a problem with, but even if wasn't I'd still find it objectionable for the above reasons and I'd imagine that'd go ten fold if the majority of the industry didn't already pander to my particular gender and sexual orientation as much as it does.
It's also massively sexist, which I also have a problem with, but even if wasn't I'd still find it objectionable for the above reasons and I'd imagine that'd go ten fold if the majority of the industry didn't already pander to my particular gender and sexual orientation as much as it does.
you are either BSting, twisting the pretenses to fit you claims or didnt play the game.
Same here, even if I've not published my game yet.
Seconded. Let's hear those reputable sources and developers that are against her.
Eh, I feel where you're coming from, but for the points of Pyra relying on Rex for identity at the point where I'm at she's definitely more well known in-universe than Rex is.
And she's defended Rex by herself more than he does of her honestly. Even by wielding... her.. self?
In fact I don't even know why blades needs drivers at this point really. Or at least why Pyra needs Rex.
And she's defended Rex by herself more than he does of her honestly. Even by wielding... her.. self?
In fact I don't even know why blades needs drivers at this point really. Or at least why Pyra needs Rex.
Just a thought: if you're going to enter a thread about the critique of sexualized character design and try to brush aside entire arguments about objectification at once, you might want to look into the historical, social, and critical use of the term and not just the dictionary definition or the Latin origin (which, by the way, is OB + JACERE, not UNUS, or anything having to do with being designed for appearances). Wikipedia, remarkably, offers a good succinct definition:
Female sexual objectification by a male involves a woman being viewed primarily as an object of male sexual desire, rather than as a whole person.[1][2][3] Although opinions differ as to which situations are objectionable, some feminists[4] see objectification of women taking place in the sexually oriented depictions of women in advertising and media, women being portrayed as weak or submissive through pornography, images in more mainstream media such as advertising and art, stripping and prostitution, men brazenly evaluating or judging women sexually or aesthetically in public spaces and events, such as beauty contests, and the presumed need for cosmetic surgery, particularly breast enlargement and labiaplasty.[5] Objectification in the media can range from subtle forms, such as the lack of main female characters, to very explicit forms such as highly sexualized dialogue and provocatively dressed female characters.
Objectification is a matter of balance, context, and intent to begin with; you can't exclude the one for the others because they're all wrapped up.
This is literally already the case for women and the reason this entire thread exists.
Female sexual objectification by a male involves a woman being viewed primarily as an object of male sexual desire, rather than as a whole person.[1][2][3] Although opinions differ as to which situations are objectionable, some feminists[4] see objectification of women taking place in the sexually oriented depictions of women in advertising and media, women being portrayed as weak or submissive through pornography, images in more mainstream media such as advertising and art, stripping and prostitution, men brazenly evaluating or judging women sexually or aesthetically in public spaces and events, such as beauty contests, and the presumed need for cosmetic surgery, particularly breast enlargement and labiaplasty.[5] Objectification in the media can range from subtle forms, such as the lack of main female characters, to very explicit forms such as highly sexualized dialogue and provocatively dressed female characters.
Objectification is a matter of balance, context, and intent to begin with; you can't exclude the one for the others because they're all wrapped up.
This is literally already the case for women and the reason this entire thread exists.
That's a roundabout way of saying "I've decided Anita specifically needs to provide a solution for this specific problem before I listen to anything she has to say".
You can't be seriously making the "professional victim" argument in 2017...
[Citation needed].
As opposed to who? Post examples of people who counter her arguments that you feel have more validity.
The irony and lack of self-awareness is just too much in this comment.
"Label you" by whom? Are labels handed down by god's hand in the sky? Who has the authority to label or not lavel people and why do they have more authority than anyone else?
You're saying you don't care being labelled a misogynist as long as you don't do anything that you consider to be misogynic, which is entirely circular reasoning. You're free not to care what others think of you and your actions, but don't pretend that there's some universal truth that everyone else has to accept.
I don't know, who is a black person to tell people to stop supporting (not "enjoying", which nobody really cares about) racist content?
Hahah, no. Reality is reality.
That's like the mother of all loaded question. "What does it matter if people in a group I specifically choose to ignore think I'm engaging in sexist behaviour?". Probably doesn't matter one bit if you're not going to change your mind anyway, indeed.
And I'll be frank, nobody can take your titty games away or prevent you from playing them, and I doubt anyone cares. When you come into a forum asserting things about prominent feminist figures in the industry, however, expect to meet resistance. Don't then retreat back to "but I'm enjoying my games without hurting anyone"; it's you who chose to engage others publicly.
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