I've lost twice now to the baby dragon level 1 dungeon boss as shaman. I really have no idea how to reliably win with the starter deck they give you, filled with expensive cards and overload. :(
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Hearthstone |OT1| New Era, Same Meta
- Thread starter ZealousD
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The game is very unpleasant right now in a sense. Fuckloads of different archetypes that counter each other. Can't make much headway one way or the other because at least every 3rd game I'll be playing vs. a counter.
The strongest things over the past day seemed to be Razakus Dragon Priest and whatever Warklock variant (either Zoo or control.) Mage and Hunter can also be strong. Rogue is fun, but certainly on the subpar end of the spectrum right now.
I just get so frustrated at times not making any headway in ranked at about 9-7. Cause a lot of people at that area are still legend quality players at this point in the season, so it's very difficult.
The strongest things over the past day seemed to be Razakus Dragon Priest and whatever Warklock variant (either Zoo or control.) Mage and Hunter can also be strong. Rogue is fun, but certainly on the subpar end of the spectrum right now.
I just get so frustrated at times not making any headway in ranked at about 9-7. Cause a lot of people at that area are still legend quality players at this point in the season, so it's very difficult.
Just won against a Hunter w/o ever popping his turn 2 secret. Pretty sure it was a wandering monster, he or she conceded when I swung the game back in my favour, never attacked his face till turn 7+.
Your worst enemy are your draws as they can be totally anemic of playables.
edit: got there.
I'm 1 or 2 games away from rank 5 already with Miracle Druid, there's not many matchups that are truly terrible aside from secret mage imo since no one is playing skulking geist. Secret Mage messes your shit up with counterspell and can easily run you down or go over the top afterwards with burn.
Your worst enemy are your draws as they can be totally anemic of playables.
edit: got there.
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Do you enjoy the game more when there are only 2-3 decks instead of a bunch of decks? I'd think variety would be preferable, but I understand the large amount of randomness makes consistency difficult.
I can understand why it's frustrating, but man I really like the variety
I would say Kingsbane will see a nerf but we all know what will happen. It'll be tier 1 and in 4 months we'll see like a 6 mana 2/2 that silences and destroys a weapon.
Either way, the card is overpowered. It provides way too much value. Blizzard fucks up again.
Either way, the card is overpowered. It provides way too much value. Blizzard fucks up again.
You are commenting just a few posts away from someone saying Rogue is subpar. I think we should wait just a bit to see how things shake out.
I mean, Kingsbane is literally auto win against any kind of slow control deck. That's how ridiculous it is.
Of course the counter is aggro, which means we're heading straight for an aggro meta as usual. And so the cycle continues.
Of course the counter is aggro, which means we're heading straight for an aggro meta as usual. And so the cycle continues.
Yeah kingsbane is a great card but it's the slowest of slow cards. You need to be on an empty library to get full value out of it or completelty warp your deck around it and I don't think it's good enough to do the latter. I don't even like running the tutor.
Miracle Rogue doesn't have the survival tools of druid and it churns through the deck at a slower pace. Kingsbane as an anti fatigue tool doesn't scale like jade idol does either.
That said there's an alarming trend of anti fatigue cards being introduced to the game.
Miracle Rogue doesn't have the survival tools of druid and it churns through the deck at a slower pace. Kingsbane as an anti fatigue tool doesn't scale like jade idol does either.
That said there's an alarming trend of anti fatigue cards being introduced to the game.
The insane cost of being competitive in Hearthstone is something you notice right away, if you play other digital ccg's.
Eternal releases a ton of cards but also gives the players so many ways to get cards for free.
Blizzard is the market leader though, and as long as it stays that way, they have zero incentive to change their model. But yes Hearthstone is, by far, the most expensive digital ccg right now.
Now that Lord of the Rings the LCG is coming I wonder if Netrunner will soon follow.
The LCG model is a much better model than the ccg model.
Its not auto win vs priest
Its not auto win vs control warlock with voidlord and guldan
Druid will laughng over the touch
Im not even sure what its outvalue in long game
Every slow deck has big ass taunt now
Kingsbane at its best if you can have crazy tempo out of it
I haven't been very impressed from what I've seen from kingsbane. Most of the time when I see it, it's just a normal 1 mana 1/3 weapon, which is good in Rogue with their weapon buffs, but not amazing.
It's obviously a hard fatigue counter, but I don't think you want to run a fatigue deck right now regardless of kingsbane.
It's obviously a hard fatigue counter, but I don't think you want to run a fatigue deck right now regardless of kingsbane.
I think it will be a bit before we figure out an optimized Kingsblade deck. I've been trying a lot of things. Sometimes my Kingsblade gives me a turn 7 kill with a 11/3 dagger going face every turn. Sometimes I'm dead on turn 5 with a 6/3 dagger, and it doesn't matter because my opponent is about to play Savage Roar and do a billion damage to my face.
Regarding Kingsblade anti-fatigue: I don't think you want to "go fatigue" with it so much as you might want to play it in a deck with a lot of draw, and the upside is that you don't get punished for drawing too much. For example, I'm messing around right now with a deck that has:
2x Fan of Knives
2x Azure Drake
2x Elven Minstrel
2x Weapon Tutor
2x Sprint
Obviously that's an assload of draw in a deck. My goal isn't to empty my deck, but instead to make three things happen:
1) Draw often so Fal'dorei Strider summons happen a lot.
2) Draw N'Zoth.
3) Thin my deck so I can draw my weapon buffs for Kingsblade more reliably.
Then the win condition is N'Zoth, Shadowstep, Gang Up, and my arms of Sludge Belchers overrun the opponent while I am also hitting face with my dagger for 11 every turn.
My deck is probably bad and dumb, but my point is that Kingsblade as anti-fatigue doesn't mean your goal has to be the fatigue state. It can just be a reassurance that you don't have to worry about being penalized for drawing through your deck, which almost every Rogue deck does. I think Kingsblade has great tempo, can be effective in aggro, and is a great control tool. But new tools take time to refine. I beat a Highlander Priest in Wild on turn 9 just by smacking his face every turn with Kingsblade.
My only real issue with playing any kind of control with Rogue is that the class has no good answers to endless board flood like Evolve Shaman, Recruit Paladin, Zoolock, Jade Druid, and Aggro Druid. The only good "clear" is Vanish. So where does that leave Kingsblade as a control tool? My hunch is that it can't be one, so people have to figure out other tools to deal with those decks. Kingsblade is great in that I can swing face at everything a Big Priest plays and lose no health at all, and each Kingsblade pull means 3 Big Priest resources lost - that's powerful. But on the other hand, I've gone from almost killing a Spell Hunter to losing because I had no answer to the Hunter's very basic spellstone popping 4 wolves out. -_-
Regarding Kingsblade anti-fatigue: I don't think you want to "go fatigue" with it so much as you might want to play it in a deck with a lot of draw, and the upside is that you don't get punished for drawing too much. For example, I'm messing around right now with a deck that has:
2x Fan of Knives
2x Azure Drake
2x Elven Minstrel
2x Weapon Tutor
2x Sprint
Obviously that's an assload of draw in a deck. My goal isn't to empty my deck, but instead to make three things happen:
1) Draw often so Fal'dorei Strider summons happen a lot.
2) Draw N'Zoth.
3) Thin my deck so I can draw my weapon buffs for Kingsblade more reliably.
Then the win condition is N'Zoth, Shadowstep, Gang Up, and my arms of Sludge Belchers overrun the opponent while I am also hitting face with my dagger for 11 every turn.
My deck is probably bad and dumb, but my point is that Kingsblade as anti-fatigue doesn't mean your goal has to be the fatigue state. It can just be a reassurance that you don't have to worry about being penalized for drawing through your deck, which almost every Rogue deck does. I think Kingsblade has great tempo, can be effective in aggro, and is a great control tool. But new tools take time to refine. I beat a Highlander Priest in Wild on turn 9 just by smacking his face every turn with Kingsblade.
My only real issue with playing any kind of control with Rogue is that the class has no good answers to endless board flood like Evolve Shaman, Recruit Paladin, Zoolock, Jade Druid, and Aggro Druid. The only good "clear" is Vanish. So where does that leave Kingsblade as a control tool? My hunch is that it can't be one, so people have to figure out other tools to deal with those decks. Kingsblade is great in that I can swing face at everything a Big Priest plays and lose no health at all, and each Kingsblade pull means 3 Big Priest resources lost - that's powerful. But on the other hand, I've gone from almost killing a Spell Hunter to losing because I had no answer to the Hunter's very basic spellstone popping 4 wolves out. -_-
Got no quest today
Still ripping shit hard with ixlid giant aviana kun Druid. Ixlid only new card but oh boy he does it
He survives lightbomb/shadowreaper that's huge for deck that otherwise needed loatheb to perform miracles every game vs priest
Still ripping shit hard with ixlid giant aviana kun Druid. Ixlid only new card but oh boy he does it
He survives lightbomb/shadowreaper that's huge for deck that otherwise needed loatheb to perform miracles every game vs priest
Kingsbane nerf? lulz. Rogue anything is just ok at best right now. The meta is too harsh for rogue actually. Rogue is just not that effective against control anymore.
I think in about two weeks everyone will pull out the pitchforks for burn rune secrets, spiteful summoner and corridor creeper.
Let's say summoner has deckbuilding around it (lol) and it probably get a pass. Corridor creeper is a terribly designed card, no question about it. There is nothing to be learned about playing around that card, you are punished for playing minions basically and has huge mulligan luck involved. This card is way more broken than TFB lolol. I guess that's how they could justify releasing all of these absurd board clears though, maybe it's fair. What beats priest if not for cards like this?
Burn rune is just not a fun card to play against even if it's not too OP. It feels awful, you dude dies and you get hit in the face too? that just sucks emotionally. As always none of these point face mage decks would be as good as they are if mana wyrm wasn't a card, dunno how the card dodged all the nerfs for this long, there is probably 10 percent or thereabout winrate difference depending on if you got mana wyrm on turn 1. It's the prime example of card that should not be ever green. It's the strongest 1 drop in the game period.
I think in about two weeks everyone will pull out the pitchforks for burn rune secrets, spiteful summoner and corridor creeper.
Let's say summoner has deckbuilding around it (lol) and it probably get a pass. Corridor creeper is a terribly designed card, no question about it. There is nothing to be learned about playing around that card, you are punished for playing minions basically and has huge mulligan luck involved. This card is way more broken than TFB lolol. I guess that's how they could justify releasing all of these absurd board clears though, maybe it's fair. What beats priest if not for cards like this?
Burn rune is just not a fun card to play against even if it's not too OP. It feels awful, you dude dies and you get hit in the face too? that just sucks emotionally. As always none of these point face mage decks would be as good as they are if mana wyrm wasn't a card, dunno how the card dodged all the nerfs for this long, there is probably 10 percent or thereabout winrate difference depending on if you got mana wyrm on turn 1. It's the prime example of card that should not be ever green. It's the strongest 1 drop in the game period.
Been keeping mana wyrm dupes for years cardsa joke
(It's just gonna get hof I waste my time lol)
I explain recently explosive rune extremely bad design from designer perspective the downside of card is microscopic I agree
It's kind of a sad state of affairs when everything has already devolved into just aggro.
Mage, Paladin, Druid, Warrior, Warlock. All just flooding the ladder with aggro decks.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised, Hearthstone has been like this for what, 4 years now?
Mage, Paladin, Druid, Warrior, Warlock. All just flooding the ladder with aggro decks.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised, Hearthstone has been like this for what, 4 years now?
no one enjoys playing 20 minutes games of warlocks eating each others face and passing turns until the player whose draws lined up worse loses. It's a waste of time. I think control games got a lot less interesting with DKs added to the game, the skills involved is much less now and they're more about drawing those asap. Handlock mirrors back in the day were intense, not like this. You can have control that doesn't take a million years to win a game or until the opponent decided they had enough of your shit and concede. :b In that sense I like Razakus priest, it actually deals damage and wins relatively quickly compared with these other decks. Warlock is like half of my deck is board clear and I have this one card that I tap all game to get it, sure Zzzz.
Aggro in hearthstone is very slow right now, it's not even aggro really, it's midrange. It's fine.
Aggro in hearthstone is very slow right now, it's not even aggro really, it's midrange. It's fine.
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Gotta love games that are literally handed to the other player.
Get matched up with Quest Rogue and they have it completed on turn 4 lol. "Skill."
Edit: Next game is a face Hunter that kills me on 6. So much fun. This much legit be the worst expansion in Hearthstone history considering how much shit Blizzard printed for aggro.
Get matched up with Quest Rogue and they have it completed on turn 4 lol. "Skill."
Edit: Next game is a face Hunter that kills me on 6. So much fun. This much legit be the worst expansion in Hearthstone history considering how much shit Blizzard printed for aggro.
You're just upset and tilted because you've lost a few games in a row. It happens. This expansion is great, it brings a lot of new shit to the table and it'll be fun to see how everything shakes out. I've been playing the shit out of it for the last 60 hours and have been having a blast!
Oh, I should mention that I'm playing all super control decks. I fucking hate aggro.
My quest came at 5am est instead of 3 is this a permanent change ? My rotating shift ass hopes not
So my opponent played yogg and first thing it did was cast treachery on itself how you doin
Later same game I cast deck of wonders from drakonoid OP and forgot how that works and wasted raza
Dragon renoraza priest still op in wild so still beat meme casino mage but lol
So my opponent played yogg and first thing it did was cast treachery on itself how you doin
Later same game I cast deck of wonders from drakonoid OP and forgot how that works and wasted raza
Dragon renoraza priest still op in wild so still beat meme casino mage but lol
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Uh, yeah, sure, mill away Devourer
The last treasure choices were kinda meh, but this did ward off fatigue a few turns when I split the last boss' deck in half.
Tempo Rogue still the best tempo deck in the game I feel
If only for reason its beat other tempo deck
Vilespine not give a shit if you summon 8 drop on turn 6
Rogue will always won if had equal hand in tempo matchup
Rogue winrate only suffer because everybody trying stuff that not tempo right noe
If only for reason its beat other tempo deck
Vilespine not give a shit if you summon 8 drop on turn 6
Rogue will always won if had equal hand in tempo matchup
Rogue winrate only suffer because everybody trying stuff that not tempo right noe
Been trying a Shaman quest. It's kinda impossible to win anything with evolve shaman anymore, and the class got nothing from the expansion. Grumble is the only "good" card, and he's the win morest of win more cards.
This expansion has opened my eyes on the lack of design chops on Blizzard's part. There was no consideration to any kind of balance in this set, and there's very little deck building to be done. The one new archetype (spell hunter) is basically dictated by the sparse selection of cards available to it.
edit: I found a win con! You have to be holding Grumble, then evolve one of your minions into another Grumble. Then you get to loop your board endlessly for 1 mana each. The jade druid I was playing ragequit and roped me. I guess endless minions are ok only if the druid has them.
This expansion has opened my eyes on the lack of design chops on Blizzard's part. There was no consideration to any kind of balance in this set, and there's very little deck building to be done. The one new archetype (spell hunter) is basically dictated by the sparse selection of cards available to it.
edit: I found a win con! You have to be holding Grumble, then evolve one of your minions into another Grumble. Then you get to loop your board endlessly for 1 mana each. The jade druid I was playing ragequit and roped me. I guess endless minions are ok only if the druid has them.
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### End of turns
# Class: Warrior
# Format: Wild
#
# 1x (1) Shield Slam
# 2x (2) Armorsmith
# 1x (2) Doomsayer
# 1x (2) Plated Beetle
# 1x (3) Bash
# 2x (3) Drakkari Enchanter
# 1x (3) Mountainfire Armor
# 1x (3) Ravaging Ghoul
# 2x (3) Shield Block
# 2x (4) Grimy Gadgeteer
# 2x (5) Alley Armorsmith
# 1x (5) Brawl
# 2x (5) Cobalt Scalebane
# 1x (6) Emperor Thaurissan
# 2x (6) Gemstudded Golem
# 1x (7) Gorehowl
# 2x (7) Obsidian Destroyer
# 1x (8) Geosculptor Yip
# 1x (8) Kel'Thuzad
# 1x (8) Ragnaros the Firelord
# 1x (9) Ysera
# 1x (10) Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound
#
AAEBAQcOS4oB9gKiBKoGogmCDtYRqRWoqwKCrQLKzQLq5gLq6gII1AT/B8EW+LwC/rwCyssC/eECy+cCAA==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
Yip meme. Don't own second shield slam not paying 400 dust. Obv greed af but can have some casual fun winning more than losing in the wild joke meta haha. Need second doomsayers but everybody else so greedy too lol
# Class: Warrior
# Format: Wild
#
# 1x (1) Shield Slam
# 2x (2) Armorsmith
# 1x (2) Doomsayer
# 1x (2) Plated Beetle
# 1x (3) Bash
# 2x (3) Drakkari Enchanter
# 1x (3) Mountainfire Armor
# 1x (3) Ravaging Ghoul
# 2x (3) Shield Block
# 2x (4) Grimy Gadgeteer
# 2x (5) Alley Armorsmith
# 1x (5) Brawl
# 2x (5) Cobalt Scalebane
# 1x (6) Emperor Thaurissan
# 2x (6) Gemstudded Golem
# 1x (7) Gorehowl
# 2x (7) Obsidian Destroyer
# 1x (8) Geosculptor Yip
# 1x (8) Kel'Thuzad
# 1x (8) Ragnaros the Firelord
# 1x (9) Ysera
# 1x (10) Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound
#
AAEBAQcOS4oB9gKiBKoGogmCDtYRqRWoqwKCrQLKzQLq5gLq6gII1AT/B8EW+LwC/rwCyssC/eECy+cCAA==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
Yip meme. Don't own second shield slam not paying 400 dust. Obv greed af but can have some casual fun winning more than losing in the wild joke meta haha. Need second doomsayers but everybody else so greedy too lol
I'm gonna start roping all these netdecking assholes again I swear. Same fucking decks over and over. I'm sorry was a new expansion just released or what?
There was only one new deck in this entire expansion. Then a bunch of cards for the existing decks. Blame Blizzard, the players just use what's available.
Hope you don't take offense to this, but I have to ask. It feels like every single one of your posts now is complaining about the game; why even play it if you think it sucks so much?
I keep loving Kingsbane.
https://hsreplay.net/replay/rM6ZfDcGpSN7NrGJkCt44T --->Warlock
https://hsreplay.net/replay/9VjBExxevcwVHrJsE6uU4K ---> Spell Hunter
https://hsreplay.net/replay/eTErvGkikDtUGgEDBn4gpn ---> Dragon Priest that dropped on me a Ysera, Deathwing, Duskbreaker and Primordial dragon all four from another Deathwing
https://hsreplay.net/replay/rM6ZfDcGpSN7NrGJkCt44T --->Warlock
https://hsreplay.net/replay/9VjBExxevcwVHrJsE6uU4K ---> Spell Hunter
https://hsreplay.net/replay/eTErvGkikDtUGgEDBn4gpn ---> Dragon Priest that dropped on me a Ysera, Deathwing, Duskbreaker and Primordial dragon all four from another Deathwing
Who's worse:
A dude who may or may not have new cards, or has them but likes his old decks.
A dude who ropes people in his angst, wasting everyones time and generally souring people off of the game.
You need to get over thinking you should be able to control how people play their game, or that you should punish people for using a deck you don't like. It's childish and ugly.
blizzard doesn't give a shit about control decks...jade golems destroyed the entire control meta when they arrived and they never got nerfed..on the other hand good cards that stop aggro get nerfed really quickly, like with the druid last time.
complaining about netdecks has always been odd to me. deck building is very hard so of course people are going to use resources to help them. plus hearthstone has a very healthy streaming culture and it's only natural to want to play what your favorite streamer is playing.
they're not hacking or cheating or whatever. they put 30 cards into their deck that exist in the game.
edit: also deckbuilding is a long, laborious process. it's not enough to think a deck is good. you have to actually play it. a lot. and tweak cards over and over again. once we start seeing the shape of the meta i will absolutely be netdecking something when i want to climb. i don't have time to make my own good ladder decks. especially when i'm busy on finishing up these dungeon runs.
they're not hacking or cheating or whatever. they put 30 cards into their deck that exist in the game.
edit: also deckbuilding is a long, laborious process. it's not enough to think a deck is good. you have to actually play it. a lot. and tweak cards over and over again. once we start seeing the shape of the meta i will absolutely be netdecking something when i want to climb. i don't have time to make my own good ladder decks. especially when i'm busy on finishing up these dungeon runs.
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Yeah I was watching Dog play mill rogue with kingsbane and it actually destroyed almost any slower deck. The mill portion allows you to draw all your weapon parts and Valeera and you then win with a combination of mill + pressure from and insane dagger. He beat a quest warrior by outhealing the rag shots every turn (leeching). Even was running a blade flurry to help clear. These were games at top 150 legend too.
Still succeptible to dying early against aggro/high tempo decks though. So pretty useless on most of ladder lol.
Jade didn't really destroy the control meta til way later, maybe JTU but probably KFT. There were plenty of other reasons besides jades though. Even then there were a few control decks that were viable. Not saying you're wrong about jades being strong vs control, but largely vs a specific type of control.
Druids acting out today. I played my traditional aggro hunter and he roped me after facing lethal from the ol' gigantic hyena. I'd put it down to netdeck fatigue but he was playing jade druid.
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