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Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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The only legit complaint Itagaki has has about current DOA is how they made Lisa lighter overtime.
Thats real fucked up.
Thats real fucked up.
The only legit complaint Itagaki has has about current DOA is how they made Lisa lighter overtime.
Thats real fucked up.
She is a bit lighter skinned but not that much
Can I just say, I'm so, so very glad and relieved that Team Ninja stayed classy in Nioh? The only sexualization you see is incredibly tame, and it's for creatures that actually fit (a succubus-type, and a literal jorogumo). And even those creatures only just show cleavage, it's not like it has jiggling physics or a ridiculous camera or whatever. The human women are all mostly sensibly dressed. The mage, Fuku, shows side-thighs, and Okatsu isn't wearing pants (but is wearing a long flowing robe so you don't see much anyway), but that's it, and their outfits are very classy and they look and elegant. Ginchyo wears full armour, Lady Maria either wears a proper fencer's outfit (when fighting) or a lovely kimono (when not), Yuki-Onna isn't sexualized and looks cool and badass... Thank you, Team Ninja. No, seriously, it really made me enjoy the game more. <3
That second one's actually her SCIV design. Ivy's SCV design is only slightly less worse:
Google, you have failed me for the last time. :/
I guess this means there's hope re: her VI design? It seems III was "peak idiocy".
Yeah I looked up some more pictures, and it seems like that was just in really washed out lighting.
So nevermind, just Itagaki being Itagaki.
Yeah I looked up some more pictures, and it seems like that was just in really washed out lighting.
So nevermind, just Itagaki being Itagaki.
Another part of it is that with DoA5 they actually tried to make the characters look more realistic than in the past. The facial features and skin looked comparable to dolls in Itagaki's DoA's while with DoA5 they went in a more realistic direction. This comparison of Helena really shows off the difference
Yeah there's more gradients on the skin, and light actually reflects and illuminates on the skin instead of being flatly shaded in the past.Another part of it is that with DoA5 they actually tried to make the characters look more realistic than in the past. The facial features and skin looked comparable to dolls in Itagaki's DoA's while with DoA5 they went in a more realistic direction. This comparison of Helena really shows off the difference
I'm sorry that I don't have anything to contribute to the topic right now, but I really wanted to say thanks about this. Good to see people calling it out.
It was Art of Fighting that started everything though.
Though SNK in general had a more spicy take
Yeah that was my bad, I didn't know it was considered offensive.
In the future, please refrain from bringing back baggage from NeoGAF - especially to use it against other members of our community -, as that goes against our Terms of Service and Rules.
That dude seems like a total child. Hard to believe that Injustice 2's designs turned out largely great, at least in terms of the females. Now those Batman and Superman designs, well......we don't talk about those Batman and Superman designs.Speaking of fighters, have you seen the design process for the female characters of Injustice 2:
Hard to imagine any female character get a decent design in an upcoming game when the conceptualization starts with these types of thoughts.
The bolded fucking nails it hard.
Aight So I finally got GR2. Some of kat's costume alts are ok, but it also opened my eyes further in to how far we have fallen. I saw there was a PSO2 costume and I was psyched cause I liked pso.
I was expecting something like
But what I got was
I was dumbfounded
I was expecting something like
But what I got was
I was dumbfounded
This talk about fighting games has got me thinking, that I can much easier look past heavily sexualized designs when I dig the art style otherwise and it's somewhat distinct. Skullgirls is the example of this, it just looks very good and the animations are gorgeous. And those designs don't feel so out of place in the game either. But I can't act surprised when someone says they find the designs off-putting. I would too in other context and style. I think it's especially in games that go for more realistic look that the overly sexualized designs pop out for me. Though also most of "generic anime" looking ones do too and even more so when it's someone looking like a child. Don't ask me to define generic anime, I can just point out when I think I see one.
Many honestly don't, can't blame you for it. But that's exactly why I like to see people pointing it out. =)
Aight So I finally got GR2. Some of kat's costume alts are ok, but it also opened my eyes further in to how far we have fallen. I saw there was a PSO2 costume and I was psyched cause I liked pso.
I was expecting something like
But what I got was
I was dumbfounded
Worst part is this shit is tame by PSO2 standards. The fashion of that game is horrible HORRIBLE.
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this is the base Hunter
that shows half her checks (and ingame it has more cleavage), and that's without the nipple patches I posted above.
Like, I tend to browse the Live from Playstation tabs , and in the pics section I see some random PSO2 pics, and some outfits are just crazy in a bad way.
Aight So I finally got GR2. Some of kat's costume alts are ok, but it also opened my eyes further in to how far we have fallen. I saw there was a PSO2 costume and I was psyched cause I liked pso.
I was expecting something like
But what I got was
I was dumbfounded
I remember that most of us Gravity Rush fans hated that outfit. It's straight up trash. The outfits she receives through the game are generally pretty great. Even the ones that you could refer to as fetish-like don't really go down that path. Like there's no zettai-ryouiki in her schoolgirl outfit and her nurse outfit just looks like a regular nurse outfit rather than some sexed up version.
Worst part is this shit is tame by PSO2 standards. The fashion of that game is horrible HORRIBLE.
Yo I wasn't ready for that... wth are they doing?????
The last game, PSZ was much more tame!
There are lots of dumb outfits but while playing the game I don't think you see many people in armor sets that are more revealing than at least the front of that GR2 outfit. There are special ones like bathing suits or whatever but I think in general people are running around more clothed.
Stuff like default hunter, revealing or not, is just ugly imo. PSO2 has lots of nice armor designs thankfully.
Violence is a separate issue. But, Anita Sarkeesian makes a very good case for why violence and sexualized depictions of women are intertwined. While I think there are different ways to approach the two, there should absolutely be equal criticism towards games that relishes in grotesque, sensationed images of violence.
Yeah that is exactly how I feel. Its why I prefer games like Skullgirls or Wayfoward games, games that have a lot of charisma so the sexiness dosent feel skeevy, in comparison to stuff like Senran Kagura or DOA, which for some reason rub me the wrong way.
As for generic anime, every era has a style that is widely used by most studios. This isn't the ultimate litmus test on what is generic, but It gives you a general idea.
I always felt like video games were terrible at that. Just don't do it and give the woman characters some clothes to wear for god's sake. How is that so hard?
Sexualization goes beyond just what people are wearing though!
Her nurse outfit has heels and is a fetish costume interpretation of a nurse outfit.I remember that most of us Gravity Rush fans hated that outfit. It's straight up trash. The outfits she receives through the game are generally pretty great. Even the ones that you could refer to as fetish-like don't really go down that path. Like there's no zettai-ryouiki in her schoolgirl outfit and her nurse outfit just looks like a regular nurse outfit rather than some sexed up version.
Its very normalized now lol
Another part of it is that with DoA5 they actually tried to make the characters look more realistic than in the past. The facial features and skin looked comparable to dolls in Itagaki's DoA's while with DoA5 they went in a more realistic direction. This comparison of Helena really shows off the difference
Ahh yes. Procelian dolls vs Plastic surgery makeup models
Yeah, its great! I love the designs in Nioh in general, particularly for the women. But then again this was Kou Shibusawa's pet project since before the Koei-Tecmo merger, and he's always been good with women in his games (to no small surprise given his wife started Koei with him as business partners). So it's likely he vetoed anything too inappropriate in his role as general producer.
As an aside... Something the developers at TN mentioned in an interview that I think reveals a lot about the general mindset at TN and how Fuku or Okatsu's designs could have gone bad without Shibusawa there is that their response to people in the alpha and beta asking for more female characters was something like "and thus the sexy Fuku was created!" Like. I don't think we were asking for fanservice here...
Edit: I just realized my tone might've seen dismissive which was not my intent, I'm in full agreement!
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Huh, thanks for this. I must say I prefer the 80's then. But there's stuff from around 2005 like Paprika, Afro Samurai and Samurai Champloo that look really good to me and for some reason don't fit into my arbitrary definition of "generic anime". I wish I could put it into actual words what bothers me. Those eyebrows going over her hair is one thing atleast, but it's in every picture.As for generic anime, every era has a style that is widely used by most studios. This isn't the ultimate litmus test on what is generic, but It gives you a general idea.
Sorry that this question is about anime and not specifically about games, but just like in games would I be off base saying that male characters are allowed more distinctive and personalized looks than female characters? I mean facial features. So many female characters just look basically like the same doll with a different wig. Or is it just my untrained eye that can't spot the subtle differences.
Really don't mean to hijack this thread for anime discussion, but it's atleast somewhat related. As "anime style" is widely used in games and I need some schooling on that.
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Thats not to say every anime from that era will look like one of those pictures (for example Gainax/TRIGGER and Studio Ghibli always have a distinctive look to their work), but some styles are more in vogue at some point in time.
It is kind of like how with western animation 2010s there is the big meme about "CalArts artsyle" because a lot of popular cartoons have a very simple style.
This is in contrast with early to mid 2000s where every cartoon wanted to be anime.
Thanks a bunch for your responses! I really don't like much of modern western animation I see on TV either. But let's end here so we can carry on with games, sorry to all for the slight derail.Thats not to say every anime from that era will look like one of those pictures (for example Gainax/TRIGGER and Studio Ghibli always have a distinctive look to their work), but some styles are more in vogue at some point in time.
It is kind of like how with western animation 2010s there is the big meme about "CalArts artsyle" because a lot of popular cartoons have a very simple style.
This is in contrast with early to mid 2000s where every cartoon wanted to be anime.
I remember that most of us Gravity Rush fans hated that outfit. It's straight up trash. The outfits she receives through the game are generally pretty great. Even the ones that you could refer to as fetish-like don't really go down that path. Like there's no zettai-ryouiki in her schoolgirl outfit and her nurse outfit just looks like a regular nurse outfit rather than some sexed up version.
I love Kat and her alts. She's a girly protag done very right and she's a lot of fun.
Yeah that is exactly how I feel. Its why I prefer games like Skullgirls or Wayfoward games, games that have a lot of charisma so the sexiness dosent feel skeevy, in comparison to stuff like Senran Kagura or DOA, which for some reason rub me the wrong way.
As for generic anime, every era has a style that is widely used by most studios. This isn't the ultimate litmus test on what is generic, but It gives you a general idea.
Man that picture is enlightening.
that last bit about harley is a joke manSpeaking of fighters, have you seen the design process for the female characters of Injustice 2:
Hard to imagine any female character get a decent design in an upcoming game when the conceptualization starts with these types of thoughts.
whats wrong with the shorts ? If Harley can rock booty shorts in a full feature film for general consumption then she should be able to in the game. Not to mention Harley strutting around with her fatty in that recent animated movie. The other gears removed/altered was interesting to hear about. Glad Namco seems to be staying course with Soul Calibur.
Never said otherwise. Luckily, other elements of sexualization (camera angles etc.) are also mostly absent in Nioh.
Yup! Can't wait to see what Ivy looks like, hope it's not compromised, sciv Ivy was awesome
Come on, the "plastic" Dead or Alive 5 girls still look way less plastic and unreal than the girls in Tekken 7 or the freshly announced Soul Calibur 6.
Sophitia looks straight up like a Barbie doll. Silicon skin, painted on eyes and brows, plastic hair:
...and a dead stare.
You know people had problems with the movie's depiction of Harley Quinn as well right? And "staying the course". That's rich, so, continuing to show more skin, become more objectified, that's staying the course, but to those who like the original version, somehow we're somehow destroying the purity of the artist? Is that it?
1. Warner/DC told the artist/modeler to tone it down from his original design
2. Yes I am glad Bandai Namco is not a pub that does that stuff to their artists. at least openly
Soph's Sc6 outfit is not that different from the one in sc1. She had cleavage, jiggle physics, floaty skirt with seeable undies in 1.
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Yeah, I really don't think DoA is any worse other mainstream fighters these days. They all have skimpy costumes, ogling camera angles, and crazy jiggle physics. The Netherealm games are really the only fighters that have been toning that stuff down; everyone else has been cranking it up.
I got into DoA a long time ago and I know what I'm getting there. I just wish I didn't have to deal with this stuff in every other fighting game. I don't know why so many fighting game developers hate breast support.
Even Margot Robbie didn't like wearing the costume.
This is Sophitia in Soul Blade:
This is Sophitia in SoulCal 1:
This is Sophitia in SoulCal 6:
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^Why are her boobs jiggling one at a time??? Was this something I overlooked with SCIV and V's jiggle physics?
Oh dear...
That's not a good argument for oversexualization my duderino. It's proof that maaayyybe sometimes animators/devs/etc. should let their brains control their minds, not their 'little buddies'.
Oh dear...
You mean the movie where she had two butts?
I'm not. I like my cheesecake where appropriate but I'd rather more people be able to enjoy a series I love so dearly than less, thank you very much. Soul Calibur, no matter how much people will claim otherwise, is not a series that relies on cheesecake for its loyal following or its identity. And if toning down the tacky sex appeal will achieve getting more players interested, then that's what should be done.
in terms of sales toning down the sex appeal is not going to have that much pull in terms of interest I think. Namco will most likely go towards gameplay elements like Supers, Dynamic camera angles/slow motion, a fleshed out tutorial, single player modes to appeal to the casual audience. I doubt Injustice 2 would have sold any less if Harley did have those shorts but it's just the difference in culture I guess.
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