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Easy Allies |OT| The New Era

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Deleted member 18766

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
277
MrMette said:
I suspect it has to do with creditcard/paypal fees.
They usually charge an amount to pay through their system and maybe those fees weren't charged back to the patrons before and they now are.

I know some gameingstores in Belgium and The Netherlands charge x percentage if you pay with creditcard or paypal because of those fees.

Not sure what that $0.35 is for, but probably something like a fee to keep the patreon servers running or something.
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The 0.35 is the actual amount helps cover minimum cost of the transaction where the % on top might not be able to recover for. So your $1 pledge, the transaction fee patreon needs to pay to the merchant provider will likely exceed $0.35 as there is the one off fee as well as some other levies that get apportioned over the top of it. The $0.35 ensures that the base amount is mostly accounted for and the % will pay for the difference as well as cover internal costs that patreon might have.

I don't think this is an egregious move even though they are going to be making extra net revenue off of your pledge, it's just not great for $1 patrons.
 
DemonSwordsman

DemonSwordsman

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
981
I have no problem with the fee and if you pledge only to one patreon $1 i find it weird that an extra $0.35 is breaking the bank.

But it seems poorly implemented if I have to pay for each charge if i subscribe to multiple rather than taking a lump sum of all my subscriptions and charge the fee once.
 
MrMette

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,303
Belgium
I don't mind it myself as it doesn't make that much of a difference for the 2 patreons I am supporting (even though the non-EZA one is a $1 one), but for people with a lot of subscriptions or higher tier patrons it can make a big difference.

I can see some people killing of some of their smaller patreon subscriptions because of this, so I am not sure if it is a good thing for either patreon or the creators.
 
MrMette

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,303
Belgium
melonrabbit said:
What time is the VGA stream tonight?
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You can see when EZA covering is starting on their website for your timezone (the schedule on the right side):
https://easyallies.com/

edit:
Ninja'd by 2 people apparently. That was quick.

I will not be able to watch it live. It starts at 2:20 am here, so I will not be able to see the whole thing anyway.
Will watch it during the weekend probably.
 
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sora87

sora87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,860
I'm going to tune in but probably fall asleep half way through. Still contemplating pizza though...
 
Dineren

Dineren

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,481
Quite a few of the creators I follow on twitter have been posting their lists of patrons cancelling pledges because of the fee and it seems pretty significant. Hopefully Patreon will be forced to backtrack.
 
abrack

abrack

Unshakable Resolve
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,785
DFW
Yeah a couple people I follow on twitter have been very vocal about it, one has already lost 100+ patrons.
 
issa

issa

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,030
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
Today is my night out, the show will start the time I go to sleep lol.
But I just realized that there's a >%50 chance that a new SoulCalibur will be announced, so I should watch it first thing when I wake up.

As for the Patreon thing it's awful for smaller Patreons. For me I'll just settle to backing 3 Patreons for $5 instead of the 5 I wanted.
 
Nikpls

Nikpls

Member
Oct 25, 2017
598
issa said:
Today is my night out, the show will start the time I go to sleep lol.

But I just realized that there's a >%50 chance that a new SoulCalibur will be announced, so I should watch it first thing when I wake up.
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If you want to avoid spoilers: bookmark the twitch page, and as soon as you wake up, click on it without going to social media first and watch the archive there.
 
Tygre

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,100
Chesire, UK
abrack said:
Yeah a couple people I follow on twitter have been very vocal about it, one has already lost 100+ patrons.
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Yeah, I'm seeing people just post reams and reams of $1 patrons cancelling.

It's incredibly shitty that Patreon have made this change, which will impact the livelihoods of thousands of people, with apparently minimal consultation. And all a few weeks before Christmas.
 
Dineren

Dineren

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,481
Tygre said:
Yeah, I'm seeing people just post reams and reams of $1 patrons cancelling.

It's incredibly shitty that Patreon have made this change, which will impact the livelihoods of thousands of people, with apparently minimal consultation. And all a few weeks before Christmas.
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I saw someone speculating that the change is in preparation for their IPO. Since they charge users one lump sum for all their pledges, but are charging the fee on each pledge they're just boosting their revenue stream. No idea how true that is, but some of their explanations leave a lot to be desired.
 
Budi

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
Oof, I tried to go bed early so I would wake up for the the Game Awards. Didn't happen and now I'm getting sleepy. I'm just afraid that I won't wake up to my alarm in few hours if I go to sleep now. So staying awake and waiting.
 
ByteSizeRick

ByteSizeRick

Member
Oct 27, 2017
129
I don't believe Patreon is being forthright with its motivations or intent here. That bothers me (perhaps more than the move itself), and makes me disinclined to support them (through the 5%+ they receive from patrons). I will be evaluating my continued support through Patreon in the coming weeks.
 
ByteSizeRick

ByteSizeRick

Member
Oct 27, 2017
129
$5.50 I believe. So a 10% tax at the five dollar level, ~40% tax at the $1 level, and 21% tax at the $2 level. It's the flat fee on each pledge that kills it. Incidentally, Patreon just updated their blog with even more confounding and nonsensical rhetoric. (https://blog.patreon.com/updating-patreons-fee-structure/) This feels very much to me like when a company is playing with numbers and sleight of hand. Note the conflation of "number of fee invoices" and "amount of fees" in their examples. Disingenuous at best.
 
MrMette

MrMette

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,303
Belgium
Knight in Shining Armani said:
So what happens if I stick with my $5 pledge? They just get less, right? $6 should cover it then?
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One of the patrons (Jason Goulding) posted this in the comments on patreon:
Someone can check my basic math, but the actual costs to patrons after the change will be:
$1.00 -> $1.38
$2.00 -> $2.41
$5.00 -> $5.50
$7.00 -> $7.55
$10.00 -> $10.64
$20.00 -> $20.93
$25.00 -> $26.08
$50.00 -> $51.80
$60.00 -> $62.09
$200.00 -> $206.15
$250.00 -> $257.60
$500.00 -> $514.85
Excluding any additional taxes that might be required (such as VAT).
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EZA still gets $5, but you pay $5.50 (or more if extra VAT is added).
 

Deleted member 18766

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
277
It's interesting that Patreon made a shift to transaction fees to hit the patrons rather than the creators. i assume someone has done the numbers and figured incremental increases that hit creators wasn't viable or at least they didn't want to scare them away from the platform. Moving it onto the patrons themselves means they have an opportunity to revise their pricing structure as well as theoretically bring in more whilst looking like the good guys ("more goes to the creator, guys!").
Most patreons I see have an abundance of low value tiers which makes me question of the company did their due diligence in investigating what the impact would be to themselves if a lot of people pulled out due to fee increases.

Anyway, they say the goal is to make the transaction fees as predictable as possible - they aren't, they're just asking for more and they'll keep the balance of what's left for a job well done.
 
Hasney

Hasney

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,589
ByteSizeRick said:
$5.50 I believe. So a 10% tax at the five dollar level, ~40% tax at the $1 level, and 21% tax at the $2 level. It's the flat fee on each pledge that kills it. Incidentally, Patreon just updated their blog with even more confounding and nonsensical rhetoric. (https://blog.patreon.com/updating-patreons-fee-structure/) This feels very much to me like when a company is playing with numbers and sleight of hand. Note the conflation of "number of fee invoices" and "amount of fees" in their examples. Disingenuous at best.
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Reading it, I understand why processing fees would be increased based on the "charge up front and pay on your monthly anniversary" model. If I pledge to 5 Patreons at different times of the month, they'll have to do 5 transactions throughout the month rather than one bigger one and each creator will have higher processing fees.

Now, that is an optional model so why the hell it effects everyone I have no idea. Patron are right in saying that creators right now aren't sure how much money they're getting, but those with a large number of $1 pledges (since you can't set a tier lower than that), I'm sure they'd rather have them than just clarity.
 
ByteSizeRick

ByteSizeRick

Member
Oct 27, 2017
129
That seems right. It 2.9%+$0.35, so the $0.35 (which does not vary by pledge amount) hurts more the lower you go (i.e., it is entirely regressive). Even presuming everything they say about negotiating a service fee structure is true, though (and I have very many doubts, including the fact that they apparently are not batching any processing fees originating from a single credit card), there is simply no reason that they have so far given to have it apply *after* the pledge mandatorily. At worst, Patreon should have offered creators the choice: out of your pocket or the patrons'. The fact that they are not indicates that something else is going on.
 
ByteSizeRick

ByteSizeRick

Member
Oct 27, 2017
129
Hasney said:
Now, that is an optional model so why the hell it effects everyone I have no idea. Patron are right in saying that creators right now aren't sure how much money they're getting, but those with a large number of $1 pledges (since you can't set a tier lower than that), I'm sure they'd rather have them than just clarity.
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Seems like it won't be an optional model starting next year. (That's hinted at that in the final paragraphs.) I mentioned this to the Allies, but I got dinged for a fee similar to this (but higher) when I bumped up for Trailer Jones. Patreon is not viable for high amounts, and its no longer viable for small amounts. I also note that the internet standard processors are 2.9% + $0.30 (https://memberful.com/blog/stripe-vs-paypal/), so they appear to be using that model but with a $0.05 "kicker" per transaction. A cynic might suggest that they are taking "just a bit" off the top (at minimum), but that's A LOT of money. At their volume, I question their contract negotiation skill if 2.9%+$0.35 was the best they could do.
 
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