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Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
Just before I get into it, please no story spoilers for the end as I'm not quite there yet.

I remember playing Dragon's Dogma when closer to when it came out and thinking 'This isn't Dark souls' but i've come to realise what a charming and brilliant game it is.

It's no secret that the key to Dragon's Dogma is it's combat. It still holds up really well and whilst Dark Souls was methodical and tense, DD is all about spectacle and furiously riding huge creatures whilst you slash away at their weak points. It has some of the best looking boss battles since Shadow of the Colossus in that regard, essentially taking one of the best ideas in games and putting it into something else. That goes along with a varied vocation system that lets you play however you like. Want to ride Griffins as they fly up in the air and try and throw you off? Do it. Want to stay back, buff your party and let off devastating spells? Gotcha. Want to get in on the beast riding but then jump off to perform devastating bow crits? No problemo. It's all thanks to a system that allows and encourages you to experiment with your characters build and lets you try out different styles. It's a huge bonus that the magic is really fun in this game as well. Every one of the vocations have some genuinely badass skills and other than stamina, there are no other resources to worry about when using them. The hybrid vocations generously mix up different styles as well to further suit your playstyle.

Another ace up the sleeve though, is the Pawn system. Between a character created main pawn and hired mercenary pawns created by other players, you form a party composition that best suits the quest you're undertaking. You can set them up however you like and it doubles as a brilliant difficulty system. If you're really struggling with a certain boss or enemy, you can easily hire pawns a good few levels higher than yourself to ease the burden. It all feeds back into a pretty clever reward system for using other people's pawns, and pawns can even have quest knowledge to point things out or show you the way or know the trick to taking down an enemy. The AI can be genuinely impressive at times and give you a real sense of travelling with a fleshed out party. Your main pawn particularly starts to be someone you really care about. It can also be just as when you hire someone else's pawn and they turn out to be totally useless, it creates stories as you travel.

The quests are for the most part really interesting and you visit some really cool places, including some memorable dungeons. It's a lot less hand-holdy and more esoteric than traditional Western RPG's, and whilst the writing can be guff at times, there are some genuinely interesting quest lines that are easily missable with differing outcomes. There's also some fantastic music throughout the game.

It's not all great and the game has some genuine problems, like the aforementioned writing, bugs, lack of enemy variety and ones that are there respawn far too often. But for the most part it has charm among the jank. It's exactly like a Japanese developer taking a stab at a Western RPG and taking influences from Dark Souls, Skyrim, Shadow of the Colossus and D&D. It's a flawed gem but I love it.

Feels like there's so much potential in this series that's been left on the table, and I really hope Capcom do something with it.

PS I haven't played Bitterback Isle yet as I never got that far before, but I'm certainly carrying on to it this time. That may even address some of the complaints I have anyway, like enemy variety. If you haven't played DD before, I got it for £9 on Steam last week and obviously the remasters came out recently. Check your PSplus as well, as I had gotten it years ago for free on there. It's certainly worth the money if you have to pay for it. Despite being an amalgamation of other games, there really is nothing quite like it.

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<edit by staff: removed the gif with a.. NSFW element in it. Please be more careful with your GIF choices in the future>
 
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Mario_Bones

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,528
Australia
I want a sequel so bad but I'm so scared that Capcom would neuter all the unique aspects of it and it'd either become a generic open world game or a multiplayer-focused hack 'n slash
 

Deleted member 14377

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,520
Yep. Missed opportunity from CAPCPOM to capitalize. It's a new IP for them that I thought did really well. Enough with the ports, give us a true, larger scale sequel already. D:
 

His Majesty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,180
Belgium
I tried it twice but quit each time I got to the city. The entire setting feels so bland to me and I hate the pawn system.
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,268
Minus the stamina drain, I loved the game during my playthrough of it, but can't remember anything about it. I'd say I enjoyed it a lot but that it was really forgettable to me for some reason. Maybe variety with locations or something. Thinking back, every place in my memory looks like the same outside world in those gifs, minus some of the cave parts.
 

SHAQ

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,214
Miami, Florida
As soon as I make it to the castle, the game manages to turn me completely off.

The quest system needs to be revamped but I'd buy a sequel for sure.
 

Slick Butter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,510
There's so much cool stuff in the artbook that I'd like to see in a sequel. They had big plans for this game!
 

AcidCat

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,410
Bellingham WA
Minus the stamina drain, I loved the game during my playthrough of it, but can't remember anything about it. I'd say I enjoyed it a lot but that it was really forgettable to me for some reason. Maybe variety with locations or something. Thinking back, every place in my memory looks like the same outside world in those gifs, minus some of the cave parts.

Yeah, the game really lacks variety. World is actually pretty small.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,365
It's pretty dope, the setting and the skills all are great, and the pawn system, while clunky, had a good amount of heart. We'll be waiting for a while for a follow up though if those DMC5 rumours are real. DDO to tide us over pls Capcom.
 

platypotamus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,500
I remember one time playing this game when I was so fucked up that I was running into a wall for 10 minutes straight without realizing it.

10/10 would play again
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,268
The game might have also given me wrist damage playing as the magic archer class. Maybe I'm remembering wrong but I remember having to hold the trigger forever, especially during that long ass dragon fight.

Probably one of the more fun casting classes in games though. Rarely do you feel so powerful casting a spell.
 

Augemitbutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,290
i think I've played this game 4 times to max level over the years. i burned myself out on it because it was that good. there has to be a proper sequel one day.
 

Deleted member 10293

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
234
DD is one of my favorite games from last gen by far and you're totally right about it needing a sequel

Every aspect of it screams flawed gem and I wish I could clean up some of the rough edges
 

solari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,864
AZ, USA
Haven't played it myself yet, but after hearing nothing but amazing things from friends I absolutely agree, as long as the sequel comes after DMCV.
 

Wachenroder

Member
Oct 29, 2017
207
Such an amazing game. Seeing gifs of this game always gets a reaction out of me.

I played the crap out of it on PS3 (BBI and all) but never truly finished. Fought the last boss, lost to it, intended to go back for that and the post game but never did. Then the PC version came out and that made want to finish my old file even less since once you go PC you cant go back

Im not truly itching for a sequel until i play through the PC version. I wonder how active it is.
 
OP
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Mikebison

Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
I wish this game had sold well on PS3/360. It was too good for this world.

Do we know the numbers for it or what they were expecting? Came from a time when people were taking risks on weird ass games. Especially RPGs. Kingdoms of Amalur another flawed but great game.

As soon as I make it to the castle, the game manages to turn me completely off.

The quest system needs to be revamped but I'd buy a sequel for sure.

Yeah, it's pretty clunky and can be really tough to work out what you need to do at times, so having the wiki and the old community efforts there to play with now definitely helps.

Yeah, the game really lacks variety. World is actually pretty small.

It is pretty small but having to traverse by foot means you tend to discover it pretty slowly. That's to say nothing of the day night cycle. Being out at night is genuinely awful, so you plan your routes and use your port crystals very carefully. I actually really like the fast travel system, obviously coming in properly with Dark Arisen.
 

SHAQ

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,214
Miami, Florida
Yeah, it's pretty clunky and can be really tough to work out what you need to do at times, so having the wiki and the old community efforts there to play with now definitely helps.
I might have to do that next time. I get lost in DD after a good 2 hours of questing. I think that's my biggest hang up: I don't know what to do or where to go half the time.
 
OP
OP
Mikebison

Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
DD is one of my favorite games from last gen by far and you're totally right about it needing a sequel

Every aspect of it screams flawed gem and I wish I could clean up some of the rough edges

I could even take some more of the jank if it was accompanied by some fresh ideas.

Such an amazing game. Seeing gifs of this game always gets a reaction out of me.

I played the crap out of it on PS3 (BBI and all) but never truly finished. Fought the last boss, lost to it, intended to go back for that and the post game but never did. Then the PC version came out and that made want to finish my old file even less since once you go PC you cant go back

Im not truly itching for a sequel until i play through the PC version. I wonder how active it is.

So that's what I'm playing now, and whilst no real looker, it runs well. 1440p/maxed/150fps.

But...active enough! Over the last week, my pawn has been used 5 or 6 times and quite a few of the pawns I favourite got levelled up after I gave them back. One, in particular, a ranger called Lucious, with a stellar moustache and the deepest voice in the game. Will use again.
 
OP
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Mikebison

Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
I might have to do that next time. I get lost in DD after a good 2 hours of questing. I think that's my biggest hang up: I don't know what to do or where to go half the time.

Even with it, some quests are plain bad. Some involve just waiting at a spot for ages, lest you have to just find a character on their route somewhere around Grand Soren. And it'll just be to get a line of text before you go off to the real destination.

But some of the quest lines are great. Especially the one to do with the Salvation cult and any that end in you visiting a dungeon such as the Catacombs.
 

Kapryov

"This guy are sick"
Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,159
Australia
Yeah it's the best, you haven't even gotten to the really weird stuff yet.

Uh, is that a nude arisen in that gif?
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,624
canada
Its a Berserk fans dream, all it needs is more more more.

Literally, keep it as it is and just add in more enemies, quests, characters, towns, dungeons, and itll be the GOTG
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,249
It's exactly like a Japanese developer taking a stab at a Western RPG and taking influences from Dark Souls, Skyrim, Shadow of the Colossus and D&D. It's a flawed gem but I love it.

It always just struck me as the logical, modern day update to the Capcom D&D games.

It's also the one and only game "Old Era" sold me on, and it was primarily through the amazing spell gifs. Was really looking forward to the game, but then when I played the demo...I couldn't stand it for numerous reasons. Six months later, due to the aforementioned gifs, I decided to revisit it. Easily in my top five of last gen, especially with the expansion. Bought it for the 360 and then again on PC.
 

R.T Straker

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,715
No we don't, not now atleast.
I'm glad we're getting DMCV and not a sequel to DD.

DD has amazing combat and encounter design but it's poorly to average made in pretty much everything else.
 
OP
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Mikebison

Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
No we don't, not now atleast.
I'm glad we're getting DMCV and not a sequel to DD.

DD has amazing combat and encounter design but it's poorly to average made in pretty much everything else.
What does Devil May Cry getting a sequel have to do with Dragoms Dogma getting one?
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,300
i picked it up for 360 upon lukewarm reviews, figured i'd give it a shot anyway. thought it was just a mediocre game early on and quit

years later it's kind of a cult hit and its on PC so i took the plunge again... really can't get into it for anything. admittedly i seem to be questing "wrong" as everything seems out of my league about an hour or two invested (when i reach the first big 'city', forget what it's called) but even then i don't really find the combat and pawn system awfully compelling

i "believe" in the praise it gets, really want to get into because god would i love an rpg of this kind to sink my teeth into. but for whatever reason i can't get into it for anything
 

Deleted member 15948

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
786
I have such a weird history with this game. I bought it when it came out, but wasn't in the mood for messing around with RPG item management/leveling systems and just wanted to hack and slash. I was underwhelmed with the plot and Generic Fantasy world and almost complete lack of fast travel, so when I got to the point where it was clear it was time to confront the dragon, I just stopped playing because I was grossly underlevelled and didn't care to play any more of something I hadn't really been enjoying that much to that point.

Fast forward several years... "Boy I am in the mood for some grindy ass grindy RPG shlock" I say to myself and pick it back up. Actually get into the systems this time, try out professions, have a good time and get to the ending and WOW. WOW. WOWOWOW. The ending made up for everything else that came before, plot-wise.

Fast forward to a few months ago... "Dragon's Dogma on PS4? You know, I never did play the DLC, I should go in again!" Went in with a guide to get the quests I missed on my previous runs, found all kind of new things, new tech, had a crazy time on Bitterblack Isle...

The game definitely has its flaws, but even with the Platinum trophy in hand I might pick it up again sometime. Just a lot of fun, especially working over the harder bosses on Bitterblack.
 

moustascheman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,665
Canada
It's a fun game but almost everything except the combat is drab and boring. The overworld is so dreadfully dull and uninteresting with almost no locations of any worth. A lot of the quests are pretty boring with the interesting ones also being somewhat badly structured such as the ones about evicting tenants, or fournival's trial. The writing and characters are all bland and one dimensional, while the main story only really becomes somewhat interesting near the end of the game, after you've beaten Grigori.

Thankfully bitterblack isle is a lot better in this regard since it focuses mainly on this game's greatest strength, the combat. Yet even the expansion has some flaws such as the copied rooms that make the dungeon feel almost formulaic at times. The combat also has noticeable problems despite being fairly good as a whole. An example of this is the fact that all non-rogue classes have very limited mobility options or the fact that the limit on equipping skills is too low in my opinion since it makes the game feel incredibly restrictive at times. Probably the largest problem with the combat is the way armor works and how damage is calculated, which is pretty apparent for anyone who uses daggers since it takes a while to get a set that can noticeably hurt enemies in BBI.

My thoughts on the game mirror Joseph Anderson's in his Dragon's Dogma video, although I feel more positively towards the game than he does. It's a game I really want to like more, a game that I really do like, yet the flaws are far too noticeable and just detract from the overall experience. If they ever make a sequel, they should really fixing these flaws and also adding in a better way of transportation since running everywhere and fighting the exact same bandits and wolves over and over again is just tedious.
 

Oligarchenemy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,332
There's interviews with the team about what they'd like to put in a sequel, but no real signs there is one. I mean, Deep Down is still MIA, too.
 
OP
OP
Mikebison

Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
It's a fun game but almost everything except the combat is drab and boring. The overworld is so dreadfully dull and uninteresting with almost no locations of any worth. A lot of the quests are pretty boring with the interesting ones also being somewhat badly structured such as the ones about evicting tenants, or fournival's trial. The writing and characters are all bland and one dimensional, while the main story only really becomes somewhat interesting near the end of the game, after you've beaten Grigori.

Thankfully bitterblack isle is a lot better in this regard since it focuses mainly on this game's greatest strength, the combat. Yet even the expansion has some flaws such as the copied rooms that make the dungeon feel almost formulaic at times. The combat also has noticeable problems despite being fairly good as a whole. An example of this is the fact that all non-rogue classes have very limited mobility options or the fact that the limit on equipping skills is too low in my opinion since it makes the game feel incredibly restrictive at times. Probably the largest problem with the combat is the way armor works and how damage is calculated, which is pretty apparent for anyone who uses daggers since it takes a while to get a set that can noticeably hurt enemies in BBI.

My thoughts on the game mirror Joseph Anderson's in his Dragon's Dogma video, although I feel more positively towards the game than he does. It's a game I really want to like more, a game that I really do like, yet the flaws are far too noticeable and just detract from the overall experience. If they ever make a sequel, they should really fixing these flaws and also adding in a better way of transportation since running everywhere and fighting the exact same bandits and wolves over and over again is just tedious.
I can't even disagree with any of this yet I still find it intoxicating and fascinating.
 
OP
OP
Mikebison

Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
There's interviews with the team about what they'd like to put in a sequel, but no real signs there is one. I mean, Deep Down is still MIA, too.
Still one of the most impressive early trailers I've ever seen. Basically vaporware at this point which is so sad.

By all accounts Dragons Dogma Online isn't amazing either which sucks.
 

moustascheman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,665
Canada
So, since this is a Dragon's Dogma thread I've gotta ask: am I the only one who never really liked the climbing mechanic in this game? The controls felt reallystrange and slow when climbing and there were times when my character would often teleport to a different part of the enemy's body when fighting things like dragons and drakes due to how they moved. Furthermore, I felt that it was simply quicker and more efficient to simply jump and latch on to the place I wanted to attack rather than to waste stamina and time by climbing to it.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
IMO Deep Down is a spiritual sequel to Bitterblack Isle. Going with DD again had to mean something.

It's a shame Deep Down seems to be vaporware or is in some sort of state of flux. Capcom, pls, sort it out.
 

GIANKRATOS

Member
Oct 26, 2017
692
Haven't really enjoyed the first one tbh and it really saddens me as a fan of both action games and fantasy settings. They need to fix those incredibly annoying pawns, the "static" nature of the world (Like enemies that are always in the same spot, etc.) and let me fast travel please. These three things combined made it a chore for me. I would be ok with a dd2 if they fixed at least those things, but i'm much more happier they're working on DMCV.
 

Zeta Ori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,102
NY
I agree completely OP, Dragons Dogma is the one game above all else I want to see a sequel to. I've bought the vanilla version, Dark Arisen on 360 and PS3, the PC release, and both current gen releases just to show some support lol.

Some opinions on what they could do for a sequel that id enjoy personally:

*Expand the combat by adding a greater variety of normal attacks for the weapons that exist, and add more types of weapons.
*Bring in some of the features found in certain vocations from Dragon's Dogma Online, as well as the new vocations like Alchemist.
*Build on the affinity system so that there are different levels of relationship, both positive and negative, that all have greater effects outside the relationship. A small example would be talking to one merchant and buying stuff from them builds a relationship that results in a discount and more friendly encounters, but at the cost of hurting your relationship with competition merchants who have the option to raise prices or even refuse sale.
*More variety in Dungeons, specifically id like it if they took inspiration from the Pitioss Dungeon found in FFXV and put a larger focus on platforming and mobility rather than combat.
*Swimming, sailing
*Co operative gameplay, but limited to one other person and their pawn. This way the pawn system can be kept as well as the 4 person party max limit because its either you playing solo with a max of 3 pawns or you with another player and both of you have their main pawns.
*Make the vocation system more fluid. Rather than specifically named vocations that represent a specific style of gameplay, let players build their own character into a mix of whatever they like. Towards the end there could be more rigid classes that grant access to really powerful skills at the cost of dedicating your arisen to that specific style
*Put more of a focus on story and presentation, but keep the meta approach to the ending.
*Get rid of stamina, add in a faster way of transportation, but keep the port crystal idea.
*Expand mobility options and mechanics so if someone wants to play more of a rouge style with sneaking/crouching, climbing and hanging, they can.
*Expand the over world, but also focus on making the world seem alive. I feel a lot of DD's issues were a result of being developed on last gens consoles, so stuff like NPC density in Gran Soren or the amount of NPC's traveling around the open world was really limited. Draw distance was also really bad, with enemies sometime spawning right in front of you.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,467
^ Some good ideas there. I'd totally revamp the affinity system myself. It was completely broken, impossible to control or predict, and frankly... really really dumb. xD

I'd also make the encounters more diverse/randomized on the world map, keep the portcrystal system but maybe add mounts or other forms of fast travel (with still the emphasis on foot exploration), give more skills to Warriors, have fewer types of curatives (having a million types of Greenwarish adds nothing to the game really), and don't make some side-quests arbitrarily expire (I liked it when the NPC pretty much warned you about finishing your business before continuing the main story, but it doesn't always do that).

I'm very disappointed that we're getting DMC5 instead of DD2. :(
 

Deimos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,799
Just finished Bitterblack not even an hour ago. Loved it even though I was a little bit underwhelmed with the amount of "boss" battles during the main quest line and the map variety/size. There's so much potential for a sequel in the west.