Because binding arbitration is a scam. It pretty much always leads to the side with more money "winning" and you know it.
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The Canadian Gov Stripped Postal Workers of Constitutional Rights. Now Protests Are Breaking Out.
- Thread starter Caz
- Start date
But that factually isn't happening on any real scale.
I recently renewed my health card and license, both arrived in 2 weeks. I ordered parts during black friday week, some of them arrived in two days as standard shipping. 4 days for items from vancouver. I have a roommate on disability, his cheque arrived on the usual date. etc. Meanwhile the claims of massive backlogs coming from management are misleading or outright lies.
Then the workers should have safe working conditions if the bosses want mail delivered.
Not sure how presents being delivered in time for christmas is an "essential" service. Whether you get a present in time for christmas or a week or two later ain't gonna impact your life
I work with a lot of people who get essential support payments through the mail. This is peoples paycheques.
For real. The inconvenience didn't even seem that bad. I've ordered a few things during the strike and it was delayed by like a week or so, which isn't a big deal.
Lots of people didn't get important mail based on what I've read online.
In the US, postal workers can't strike. The last time there was a "wildcat" strike Nixon tried to send in the National Guard to sort the mail IIRC. It lasted like 2 days before the government caved and went back to the negotiating table.
You can see how quickly people turn on union workers if it inconvineces them. That is exactly the reason why they strike now, also why teachers strike during the school year
It is hard for me to feel confident coming down on the side of the postal workers in this situation. Canada Post is responsible for enough of the mail delivery that there can not be any sufficient guarantee that essential deliveries will not be unreasonably delayed by work stoppages.
I agree that the workers have a right to protest, and work stoppage is a reasonable method, but not when it impacts necessary services. If they could ensure that people will be inconvenienced but not harmed, then good.
The complaints seem reasonable, by and large. But are the employees open to negotiating in good faith, or only in what they want? The rural vs urban issue is not a gender issue regardless of attempts to frame it as such. It is an issue with the way in which rates are calculated and maybe that needs to be modernized. But paying a rural courier by the hour is not the same as paying an urban courier by the hour.
As for heavier parcels - this is very reasonable and retailers shouldn't use CP for these types of deliveries, or CP should require pick up from central locations. If they don't want to lose business to competing courier companies then large parcels should be delivered via specialized couriers rather than letter carriers, and letter carriers should have the reasonable right to refuse to deliver any item that is too heavy.
I don't know if the government should be forcing them back to work - especially if they have to fabricate stories in order to justify it. Unfortunately I don't think public opinion is with CP employees in the long run. Many of the services they offer are becoming less essential and they seem slow to modernize and accept that a large number of their employees may not be required in the near future.
I agree that the workers have a right to protest, and work stoppage is a reasonable method, but not when it impacts necessary services. If they could ensure that people will be inconvenienced but not harmed, then good.
The complaints seem reasonable, by and large. But are the employees open to negotiating in good faith, or only in what they want? The rural vs urban issue is not a gender issue regardless of attempts to frame it as such. It is an issue with the way in which rates are calculated and maybe that needs to be modernized. But paying a rural courier by the hour is not the same as paying an urban courier by the hour.
As for heavier parcels - this is very reasonable and retailers shouldn't use CP for these types of deliveries, or CP should require pick up from central locations. If they don't want to lose business to competing courier companies then large parcels should be delivered via specialized couriers rather than letter carriers, and letter carriers should have the reasonable right to refuse to deliver any item that is too heavy.
I don't know if the government should be forcing them back to work - especially if they have to fabricate stories in order to justify it. Unfortunately I don't think public opinion is with CP employees in the long run. Many of the services they offer are becoming less essential and they seem slow to modernize and accept that a large number of their employees may not be required in the near future.
Unions in general need to do a lot more to get the general public on their side. There's a reason why union participation is so low in North America(a lot of it due to shitty government policy), but for a long time there has been a widely held view that unions are no longer necessary.
I work in a union shop, and I am generally pro-union. But when I encounter the usual anti-union sentiments among the non-union public, I can't really argue against them. Unions do foster and protect lazy individuals who take advantage of management's unwillingness to take the union to arbitration or whatever other cumbersome processes are involved. I've seen it, and I can't say that I haven't benefited from this either. It's great, honestly, and it would be really nice to know that everybody could work in an environment where they felt somewhat secure(even though layoffs have felt imminent for what feels like more than a decade now).
In the case of the postal service strike, the media has been pointing to a growing backlog of packages caused by the rotating strikes. CUPW have stated on a few occasions that no backlogs exist. Logically, this means they are getting more work done in less time. So what exactly are they complaining about? Whether the backlog exists or not, painting your service as underworked is probably not going to do anything positive for your claim that you aren't being treated fairly or that you are being pushed to injury.
I don't really know what my point is, other than if the PCs and Liberals felt any kind of insurmountable public pressure against intervening on behalf of Canada Post(and, by extension, Canadian business and consumers), they likely would not have stepped in. But they know that the opposition to moves like this is usually forgotten when business returns to normal, and likely seen positively when people are no longer inconvenienced. Labour need to figure out how to make themselves more appealing to people who aren't involved in the labour movement.
I struggle with my own thoughts on this subject, because I don't like the idea of government impeding the bargaining process. Especially since it seems to promote the idea that collective bargaining is just a boutique concept that can be tossed aside at the slightest inconvenience. But I've had issues with my own union's leadership and how they are stuck in the past(old white dudes, of course), and completely reactionary. They also backed Donald Trump thinking he was going to be great for Canadian workers. Hah.
I work in a union shop, and I am generally pro-union. But when I encounter the usual anti-union sentiments among the non-union public, I can't really argue against them. Unions do foster and protect lazy individuals who take advantage of management's unwillingness to take the union to arbitration or whatever other cumbersome processes are involved. I've seen it, and I can't say that I haven't benefited from this either. It's great, honestly, and it would be really nice to know that everybody could work in an environment where they felt somewhat secure(even though layoffs have felt imminent for what feels like more than a decade now).
In the case of the postal service strike, the media has been pointing to a growing backlog of packages caused by the rotating strikes. CUPW have stated on a few occasions that no backlogs exist. Logically, this means they are getting more work done in less time. So what exactly are they complaining about? Whether the backlog exists or not, painting your service as underworked is probably not going to do anything positive for your claim that you aren't being treated fairly or that you are being pushed to injury.
I don't really know what my point is, other than if the PCs and Liberals felt any kind of insurmountable public pressure against intervening on behalf of Canada Post(and, by extension, Canadian business and consumers), they likely would not have stepped in. But they know that the opposition to moves like this is usually forgotten when business returns to normal, and likely seen positively when people are no longer inconvenienced. Labour need to figure out how to make themselves more appealing to people who aren't involved in the labour movement.
I struggle with my own thoughts on this subject, because I don't like the idea of government impeding the bargaining process. Especially since it seems to promote the idea that collective bargaining is just a boutique concept that can be tossed aside at the slightest inconvenience. But I've had issues with my own union's leadership and how they are stuck in the past(old white dudes, of course), and completely reactionary. They also backed Donald Trump thinking he was going to be great for Canadian workers. Hah.
Typical of the bourgeoisie to attempt to divide the proletariat and pit them against each other.
Maybe for international receiving and very small town businesses that rely on local mail delivery/flyers, but international outgoing works afaik
Amazon has their own delivery, couriers still exist, regular businesses just use dhl/UPS/Purolator/Fedex
The postal workers are playing a dangerous game. If the strike, or the current protests, disrupt the holiday season in a significant manner, it will only increase the chances of a Conservative government being elected next year. If the Conservatives get power, they are going to punish the union and try their hardest to privatize Canada Post.
I'm all for workers exercising their right to strike for better working conditions (those safety statistics are crazy), but I do think some amount of mail should be considered "essential" and exempt from strikes.
I'm not sure exactly what that would mean in practice, but the main example in my mind is paychecks and support payments. That type of stuff always needs to be delivered.
I'm not sure exactly what that would mean in practice, but the main example in my mind is paychecks and support payments. That type of stuff always needs to be delivered.
It's not on the employees to take a shitty contract so that Trudeau can keep his seat.
Anyone that opposes a union strike isn't a liberal. It's honestly disgusting. They have ever right to demand better conditions. Christmas gifts don't mean shit.
They are still delivering mail, Jesus like do you people even do any research before spouting stuff? And even if they weren't, their contract expired recently, the government had months to figure this shit out.
I'll never vote for the liberal government after this shit. A vote for them is apperently a vote against workers rights. Just like the conservatives. Thankfully we have more than one party, if only the liberals pushed electoral reform.
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No and that was obvious from the posts in the Canadian Deals thread about this subject. It wasn't even recently, been since January 31st IIRC.
They won in 2016 over the 2011 back to work legislation but the Liberals did it anyway. Lawsuits take time.
More important things than packages haven't been delivered and people who may not be able to are being asked to pick them up.
I was responding to the links posted in this thread that some paychecks and such weren't being delivered. If that's not true, then that's great. And if anything, it means that the postal workers should be more harsh than they are about delaying/not delivering Amazon packages.
We're talking about a Crown Corporation whose profits go back to government coffers.
get mad at the government for not getting your mail on time, they knew full well the disruption this would cause and still opted not to listen to the post office
I think the challenge for the Canada Post workers is that public opinion is a fickle thing. They are absolutely striking for the right reasons and I hope they get some if not most of what they want, but I worry that the longer this drags on the more a portion of the public might turn against them. I think there is a breaking point there that they have to carefully navigate.
For instance, I had a package that was supposed to get to my house two days ago via Canada Post and I've steadily watched it's delivery date get postponed every day, to the point where it was originally bumped back to Monday the 3rd and by the end of this week it was bumped back to December 7th. This certainly causes me some level of frustration, but I think if other people end up in my boat they'll start blaming the workers, rightly or wrongly.
I think the decision to put on the pressure during the holiday season is not inherently risk free for them.
For instance, I had a package that was supposed to get to my house two days ago via Canada Post and I've steadily watched it's delivery date get postponed every day, to the point where it was originally bumped back to Monday the 3rd and by the end of this week it was bumped back to December 7th. This certainly causes me some level of frustration, but I think if other people end up in my boat they'll start blaming the workers, rightly or wrongly.
I think the decision to put on the pressure during the holiday season is not inherently risk free for them.
Like what? Why is it Canada Post employees probablem that the strike they've enacted due to shitty conditions and that hasn't been resolved in 11 months of no contract effected some people? And how is that the fault of the workers for the government not finding a solution?
Blame the government for not aiding the conditions for the post office workers. They let this happen.
If you're suspect a few days delay of mail will hurt your day to day finances get direct deposit?
Also do you have sources of people not receiving their cheque's or is this whataboutism? Because since October GST cheque's have been sent out weeks early.
I'd argue they already lost most of the publics support. They lost mine for sure. Stuff I ordered in early November from overseas has been stuck. People don't like to be inconvenienced, and the people causing the problem will get the brunt of the scorn.
As I understand it, the workers union asked for a 2.9% raise. Canada Post offered 2%. The union asked for 2X pay if workers come in on a Saturday or a Sunday. Canada Post offered overtime pay if they exceed 40 hours in a work week. The union asked for increased injury pay and changes to their disability plan. Canada Post offered to set up a $10 million health and safety fund.
The two sides were not in agreement so the union decided to do a rotating strike. This was sold to people as one day of delay here or there in random places, maybe two days delay if you were unlucky and there was a bit of a backlog, and near as I can tell most people seemed to be on the union's side here. The postal workers have got some complaints, and they'd like to be heard, but they're not really causing a fuss.
Then the delays started to pile up. Things were dragging out with no movement on anyone's positions. It was clearly not a "one day delay" sort of thing anymore. Canada Post came back to the table and offered binding third party arbitration. A neutral third party can come in and look at things and decide what's fair, and both sides get to live with whatever the arbitrator decides. And Canada Post will give every postal worker a $1000 bonus (entirely separate from the arbitration) if they agree to third party arbitration and get this strike sorted out before it screws up Christmas. The postal workers union shot this offer down because they want everything on their demands list, and fuck Christmas if they don't get it. This is where the postal workers union lost the support of the public, and people started calling for the Government to step in an solve the problem.
The two sides were not in agreement so the union decided to do a rotating strike. This was sold to people as one day of delay here or there in random places, maybe two days delay if you were unlucky and there was a bit of a backlog, and near as I can tell most people seemed to be on the union's side here. The postal workers have got some complaints, and they'd like to be heard, but they're not really causing a fuss.
Then the delays started to pile up. Things were dragging out with no movement on anyone's positions. It was clearly not a "one day delay" sort of thing anymore. Canada Post came back to the table and offered binding third party arbitration. A neutral third party can come in and look at things and decide what's fair, and both sides get to live with whatever the arbitrator decides. And Canada Post will give every postal worker a $1000 bonus (entirely separate from the arbitration) if they agree to third party arbitration and get this strike sorted out before it screws up Christmas. The postal workers union shot this offer down because they want everything on their demands list, and fuck Christmas if they don't get it. This is where the postal workers union lost the support of the public, and people started calling for the Government to step in an solve the problem.
If they are declared Essential they lose the ability to strike. It's not great for them at all if that happens. Everything has to go to arbitration.
Look at other essential services and look at how arbitrators decide those cases because of the loss of the ability to strike. Everything is more in favour of the union BECAUSE they can't strike.
The fact that still happens in the us blows my mind. Don't you guys have epayments? Hell here in Norway I have an epost box that is a digital inbox for essential post and I never get any checks. They don't exist here
We're very slow to shift from bureaucratic paperwork to digitized methods, its a country-wide character failing.
Banks often push "paperless billing" for example because, well, it needs to be pushed.
Nana Ruth won't receive her get well card on time tho!
This is how it always is; like people don't understand how protests work. They want them to happen out of public sight without any inconvenience to anyone. Like people should just meet in someone's basement and have a little sit-in and that's supposed to get results.
We have direct deposit but a significant portion of our rural population is still pretty technologically illiterate. A lot of rural communities still run mostly on paper.
This is a tricky situation. I think any rational person can sympathise with the postal workers' situation. They provide an essential service and they are often put into dangerous situations and there needs to be a mechanism to help them if they are injured on the job.
That being said, people are naturally self-interested. If you order things by mail (which is the normal order of business) then you might not get gifts or other important items as a result of their strike.
The postal workers have a lot of supporters, but the fact remains that this is the best time to do it (in regards to getting exposure) and the worst time to do it (in regards to pissing off the average person who has nothing to do with their collective bargaining, work conditions, or possibly doesn't even use their services) and they are going to win just as many friends as they are enemies, its just the nature of the game.
I rarely receive packages so it means little to me, but while I sympathise, I think they could have accomplished everything they are seeking to do after the Christmas rush is over.
I can't help but feel bothered by some of the posts here. They talk about how inconvenient not to get mail and whatnot, but they forget that these people are not getting paid well, but most importantly they are also getting seriously injured at a really high rate. I also don't buy the BS when people mention paystubs or other important mail. There are private delivery services still operating, but also we are in the age of advanced banking. Direct deposits are a standard thing these days. It should not stop the postal carrier form asking better work conditions and pay. I think it's actually the perfect time to protest the conditions. If someone on here is bothered by this it means it's working and awareness of the problems is getting more clarity.