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Zukkoyaki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,282
Early PS4 was also hit hard by delays and cancellations. The Santa Monica game was no doubt supposed to be an early marquee title.

And while I'm glad Sony gives their big games time, I highly doubt they planned on Bend not releasing a game for seven years or for Sucker Punch's follow-up to Infamous to take over five, etc.
 
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jayu26

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,592
So, credits are rolling for Into the Spider Verse, and yeah it's awesome.

There is a Siper-Man PS4 Easter egg.
 

Dabi3

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,552
Early PS4 was also hit hard by delays and cancellations. The Santa Monica game was no doubt supposed to be an early marquee title.

And while I'm glad Sony gives their big games time, I highly doubt they planned on Bend not releasing a game for seven years or for Sucker Punch's follow-up to Infamous to take over five, etc.

Zipper got caught on the chopping block as well and they had two titles in development. I don't expect another drought now that they've got their ducks in a row.
 

Masagiwa

Member
Jan 27, 2018
9,901

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,545
Sure is ambitious if that is true. Didn't they start this game after Second Son which came out in 2014. I was under the impression that this game was furthest along between Death Stranding and the TLOU2.

Keep in mind Sucker Punch probably took some vacation time after First Light, and then they probably went through several prototypes/sales pitches before landing on Ghost. So they might not have started on it until 2015, and alot of new IP this gen take 5+ years to make.
 

Funky_Monkey

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,679
Sure is ambitious if that is true. Didn't they start this game after Second Son which came out in 2014. I was under the impression that this game was furthest along compared to Death Stranding and the TLOU2.

In previous threads it was suggested that they had some struggles in determining what they were going to start work on after Infamous. So it took them a good year or two before they got started.
 

Aokiji

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,265
Los Angeles
Horizon had many Assassin's Creed elements, as Ghost of Tsushima no doubt will.

CoD's competition isn't "only Battlefield", you're being far too narrow with your definition of competition. So again, they wouldn't need to have a "huge" studio to make this game.
Yea you can make comparisons between the two, but nobody looked a thing horizon and said "Sony is coming for Assassin's Creed" because up that point AC was still in its old format.

So as for CoD, please tell me what else besides Battlefield/front competes
 

Masagiwa

Member
Jan 27, 2018
9,901
Keep in mind Sucker Punch probably took some vacation time after First Light, and then they probably went through several prototypes/sales pitches before landing on Ghost. So they might not have started on it until 2015, and alot of new IP this gen take 5+ years to make.

In previous threads it was suggested that they had some struggles in determining what they were going to start work on after Infamous. So it took them a good year or two before they got started.

Yeah, makes sense. It just feels like a long time ago we played something from them. I remember picking up my PS4 and Second Son with it.
 
Oct 31, 2017
12,081
Early PS4 was also hit hard by delays and cancellations. The Santa Monica game was no doubt supposed to be an early marquee title.

And while I'm glad Sony gives their big games time, I highly doubt they planned on Bend not releasing a game for seven years or for Sucker Punch's follow-up to Infamous to take over five, etc.

I don't even think you have to doubt it. I think -- think -- that Bend went through a bunch of ideas before going with Days Gone.

Zipper got caught on the chopping block as well and they had two titles in development. I don't expect another drought now that they've got their ducks in a row.

Zipper had two, I think Liverpool had a Wipeout game being developed for launch, plus Santa Monica's cancelled game.
 

Screen Looker

Member
Nov 17, 2018
1,963
Well I disagree, i think it's far closer to AssCreed. Which also had 'vision mode', and saying the combat is nothing like it while saying it's like FC and Witcher is laughable.

We disagree. You think I said something laughable. I said nothing you said I did. This was an unpleasant exchange. I hope our next one is more pleasant.
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,708
Malaysia
If we exclude ports and remasters and VR, Sony published:
4 + 4 games in 2014
4 + 5 games in 2015
4 + 6 games in 2016
6+ 2 games in 2017
5+ 0 games in 2018

Sony has been very consistent in their tentpole strategy, with only 2017 being deviated from the norm due to delays. The big difference that sets early gen and late gen? The desirability of the games.

People look back at 2014 and InFamous, Driveclub, LBP3 and they sleep. Whereas they look at 2018 and they marvel at it, even though in terms of traditional game publishing there's really only Spidey, Detroit, God of War and SoTC, which is one extra game vs 2014, but the quality makes up all the difference in mindshare.

Do I think Sony should have more games in general? Absolutely. But Sony's been very consistent for the entire generation in terms of their portfolio strategy ever since launch. There is nothing remarkably different in 2014 vs 2018 in terms of high-level publishing strategy. The difference is some AAA investments flopped and turned out poorly ( Order 1886, Driveclub ), some didn't light the world on fire ( InFamous, LBP3 ) whereas others were whew. ( God of War, Spidey )
 

Jaxar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,048
Australia
Do I think Sony should have more games in general? Absolutely. But Sony's been very consistent for the entire generation in terms of their portfolio strategy ever since launch.

I think the holiday game delays for the first few years still affects peoples perceptions of the output of those earlier years. Sony seems to have learned from those setbacks by not announcing launch dates so far out.

Then again though, wasn't Days Gone meant to launch this year before being delayed into 2019?
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
4,576
Keep in mind Sucker Punch probably took some vacation time after First Light, and then they probably went through several prototypes/sales pitches before landing on Ghost. So they might not have started on it until 2015, and alot of new IP this gen take 5+ years to make.

Shu was telling Kinda Funny he had played GoT (and Days Gone) during an interview at E3 2015 3.5 years ago. Playable less than a year after First Light. Unless both games got rebooted or changed alot after?

 
Oct 27, 2017
15,043
I've spent the last couple of evenings playing Helldivers for the first time since 2015 (according to my trophies) and holy shit this game is still so much fun. The missions are fairly rudimentary but I love how brutal it is and the strategems are such a great idea. The online stuff is great too and joining games has always been flawless for me. I really hope they expand on this with a sequel at some point because it has so many cool ideas and Sony doesn't have enough co-op games.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
Early PS4 was also hit hard by delays and cancellations. The Santa Monica game was no doubt supposed to be an early marquee title.

And while I'm glad Sony gives their big games time, I highly doubt they planned on Bend not releasing a game for seven years or for Sucker Punch's follow-up to Infamous to take over five, etc.

This is worth highlighting because I see Sony and MS fans estimating when studios are likely to publish new games and they're always overoptimistic in their projections.

For example, people expecting Obsidian to make a full fledged AAA RPG in 3 years, on a next gen machine no less, or how Horizon 2 could easily be a launch PS5 game despite having no idea how it's progressing.

Games take so much longer now, I mean look at Crackdown 3 or Below or Dreams, radically different games that have all generally been in the oven for the same amount of time. If we went back to when they were shown I bet most would've been way off on how long they're taking to release.
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,708
Malaysia
Playable =/= polish.

A bunch of grey boxes with basic sword swinging animation in a test combat arena = playable.

If Shu said "the game is far along/55% complete/etc" then there's something to take away there. But a game can only be 1% complete and still be playable, so long as all you've made is that small piece of the game.

E.g. Project Awakening by Cygames. Game is said by devs as being only 1% complete despite clearly having a combat arena and a polished idea of a combat system.
 

Mass Effect

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 31, 2017
16,788
That is the reality. But people is this thread can't understand that
They think everything is fine.

They forgot about how dry 2013-2016 were. And besides uncharted 4 the only great exclusive on these years came from a third party(bloodborne).

Sony can't handle next gen they way the handle this one. PlayStation is everything for the company now.

They need more teams. Can be buying studios or making second teams on their best studios(guerrilla, ND, Sam, sp) at least theses 4 with 2 teams.

For this they need around 400-500 staff on each of these studios.

2016 absolutely does not belong with 2013-2015. '16 is usually regarded as the start of Sony's great exclusive streak for PS4.

Anyway, I can't really disagree with you on wanting more teams. Sony may not *need* them necessarily, but it would be nice for them to have a couple of more studios instead of depending on partners.

Supermassive, Bluepoint, Insomniac, and Quantic Dream aren't guaranteed to stay with Sony. So I can see the worry. Though I don't think Insomniac is going anywhere since their two biggest successes ever are two PS4 exclusives (Ratchet & Clank 2016 [btw] and Spiderman). People are worried about Microsoft picking them up, but I can't see that happening.
 

Zukkoyaki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,282
This is worth highlighting because I see Sony and MS fans estimating when studios are likely to publish new games and they're always overoptimistic in their projections.

For example, people expecting Obsidian to make a full fledged AAA RPG in 3 years, on a next gen machine no less, or how Horizon 2 could easily be a launch PS5 game despite having no idea how it's progressing.

Games take so much longer now, I mean look at Crackdown 3 or Below or Dreams, radically different games that have all generally been in the oven for the same amount of time. If we went back to when they were shown I bet most would've been way off on how long they're taking to release.
Yup. We can look at dates of announcements and time since last release to make plausible guesses but that's really it. It's why I roll my eyes at posts like "Where's Rocksteady's game? It's been over three years since Knight." Well, maybe the scale is big, maybe it took them awhile to nail down an idea and then refine the idea, maybe there were unexpected challenges, etc. Game development isn't that cut and dry.

Reality is high-end game development is challenging and we never truly know how fast or well a project is progressing until the curtain is fully pulled back.
 

Bundy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,931
I've spent the last couple of evenings playing Helldivers for the first time since 2015 (according to my trophies) and holy shit this game is still so much fun. The missions are fairly rudimentary but I love how brutal it is and the strategems are such a great idea. The online stuff is great too and joining games has always been flawless for me. I really hope they expand on this with a sequel at some point because it has so many cool ideas and Sony doesn't have enough co-op games.
Helldivers is amazing and highly underrated. I hope Sony still has a partnership with them for another game.
 

Malkier

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,911
This is worth highlighting because I see Sony and MS fans estimating when studios are likely to publish new games and they're always overoptimistic in their projections.

For example, people expecting Obsidian to make a full fledged AAA RPG in 3 years, on a next gen machine no less, or how Horizon 2 could easily be a launch PS5 game despite having no idea how it's progressing.

Games take so much longer now, I mean look at Crackdown 3 or Below or Dreams, radically different games that have all generally been in the oven for the same amount of time. If we went back to when they were shown I bet most would've been way off on how early they'd release.

To be fair Dreams is doing a lot different then most games, it's basically Zbrush playskool edition inside of unreal engine playskool edition running on the constraints of a console. It definitely needs time for a lot of fine tuning. I'm not sure I would compare it to a regular development cycle. As far as I know Crackdown 3 has had a bit of development hell, don't know anything about below but probably an outlier as well. Development going from ps4>ps5 will be much smoother then ps3>ps4 I think unless they pull some unexpected hardware stuff.

Plus trying to make a solid new IP takes time to figure out. I don't think the estimates are outrageous, but yeah we will never know how long development will take. I think most people just kind of look at it as who's coming up to bat next and when it would ideally fit for fun more then anything. Or at least I hope so.
 

Shairi

Member
Aug 27, 2018
8,568
I don't know why everybody here is so offended by multiplayer games made by Sony. I fully understand that the market already offers a lot of multiplayer titles and therefore some people don't consider it necessary, but the reason why there are so many multiplayer games is because so many people want to play them. And publishers develop them because they generate a lot of money and a steady flow of revenue. Sony knows that. That's why Shu is unhappy that they don't have successful multiplayer games. I think we will see a greater commitment from Sony to multiplayer games in the future.

But that won't change the fact that Sony will continue to have the best singleplayer experiences. SSM, Sucker Punch, ND, all will continue to develop singleplayer games. Sony can deliver both.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
To be fair Dreams is doing a lot different then most games, it's basically Zbrush playskool edition inside of unreal engine playskool edition running on the constraints of a console. It definitely needs time for a lot of fine tuning. I'm not sure I would compare it to a regular development cycle. As far as I know Crackdown 3 has had a bit of development hell, don't know anything about below but probably an outlier as well. Development going from ps4>ps5 will be much smoother then ps3>ps4 I think unless they pull some unexpected hardware stuff.

Plus trying to make a solid new IP takes time to figure out. I don't think the estimates are outrageous, but yeah we will never know how long development will take. I think most people just kind of look at it as who's coming up to bat next and when it would ideally fit for fun more then anything. Or at least I hope so.

Fair enough about Dreams, and i'm sure people are just doing it cuz it is fun to discuss.
 

BrickArts295

GOTY Tracking Thread Master
Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,762
Early PS4 was also hit hard by delays and cancellations. The Santa Monica game was no doubt supposed to be an early marquee title.
There's also the fact that ND got a huge loss with Hennig leaving. OG U4 was most likely meant to be a 2015 game (since it was revealed in 2013). We could have had another ND game by now but they went back to a 1 team development.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,904
Yeah, the pipeline would have been different for ND without the Amy situation.

TLoU R (2014) -> UC4 -> (2015) -> The Lost Legacy (2016) -> TLoU II (2018/early 2019) -> new IP for PS5 (2021+)
 

TheRulingRing

Banned
Apr 6, 2018
5,713
Yea you can make comparisons between the two, but nobody looked a thing horizon and said "Sony is coming for Assassin's Creed" because up that point AC was still in its old format.

So as for CoD, please tell me what else besides Battlefield/front competes

Most multiplayer shooters compete in the space that CoD is in, even if they're not directly trying to ape it. Overwatch, Destiny, Fortnite, PUBG, Halo, Battlefield, R6:S etc will have large audience overlaps.

And the CoD/Battlefield competition isn't even as direct as you're trying to make out either.
 

TheRealTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,480
I mean we can argue if Sony needs more studios or not
or if they need to branch to more genres or not

but there is no denying that if they did and if they the 1st party studios revived old series that are adventure games, platformers, etc.... then I would be a happy camper

I mean more stuff is always great
 

Memento

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,129
Assuming no bad stuff happening next gen, we are probably looking at some packed first 2 years for PS5:

- Ratchet and Clank 2: Late 2020 (launch title) or 2021 (4+ years of development time, if Insomniac works with 2 teams, which I believe they have multiple, so yeah)

- Horizon 2: Late 2020 (launch title) or Early 2021 (3+ years of development time since HZD)

- Gran Turismo 7: Late 2020 (launch title) or 2021 (3+ years of development time since Sports)

- New IP from Japan Studio's Gravity Rush Team: Late 2020 (launch title) or Early 2021 (4+ years of development time)

- God of War 2: 2021 (3+ years of development time since GOW)

- Spiderman 2: Late 2021 (3 years of development time since SM1)

- Demons Souls Remake (or whatever the hell BluePoint's next project is): Late 2020 or Early 2021 (3+ years of development time since SOTC Remake)

- Detroit 2 or Quantic Dream's new IP: 2022 (4+ years of development time since Detroit)

- Rumoured new Uncharted by Sony's new studio: 2022 (4+ years of development time)

- Bloodborne 2: 2022 (4 years of development time since Sekiro)

- Days Gone 2 or new IP from BEND: 2022 (3+ years of development time since Days Gone)

- Media Molecule's new IP or Dreams 2: 2022 (3+ years of development time since Dreams)

I cant predict Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch and Kojima Productions without having any idea about the release dates of TLOUP2, Ghost of Tsushima and Death Stranding. They could very well all release next year, and they could also very well be cross gen launch titles on PS5 in 2020, so who knows.
 

jayu26

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,592

ASilentProtagonist

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,873
PS3, PS4's first year, or two were quite slow for exclusives. Not expecting much different for PS5, but i'd love to be proven wrong.
 

Malkier

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,911
Couldn't care less about rich rich presence. A full fledged discord app running in the background though would be dam nice.
 

LiquidSolid

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,731
That's pretty great news, especially since Cambridge closed. Probably better too if the staff is all there in one place rather than having one office on the other side of the world. That must make it easier from a management perspective. Guerilla are the ones I'd expect have a good chance of showing up in year one. If PS5 is launching end of 2020, year one would mean anywhere 3-4 years of development for Horizon 2 depending on Guerilla is at launch of closes off the first year.
Uh, what? You mean the other side of the English Channel, right? They were basically in the same time zone.

I think ya'll need to chill on these "Sony needs to expand all their studios to have two full teams" ideas. You seem to be forgetting that a number of Sony's studios, particularly Naughty Dog, Sony Santa Monica and Guerrilla, literally already tried that at the end of last gen and gave up after some very middling results. Guerrilla seemed to be the only ones who got out of it without an internal mess and it still resulted in the worst game they've made since Shellshock Vietnam on the PS2.

The PS5 isn't going to lack exclusives. Most of Sony's best first party devs were building games from the ground up this gen, which takes 5 + years. Now they can start making sequels, which only take half as long. Not to mention that porting PS4 games to PS5 will be easier than porting PS3 games to PS4.
Not really, it depends how ambitious the developer (and publisher) is. Like sure, a sequel that's basically just more of the same will typically have a fast turnaround but if they want to make a lot of changes or improvements or it requires something that's very time intensive, like writing, then figuring those out is going to take time. I don't think any of us wanted Guerrilla to pull a Killzone 3 with Horizon, for example, we wanted Horizon 2 to be a significant step up from the first one.

I've spent the last couple of evenings playing Helldivers for the first time since 2015 (according to my trophies) and holy shit this game is still so much fun. The missions are fairly rudimentary but I love how brutal it is and the strategems are such a great idea. The online stuff is great too and joining games has always been flawless for me. I really hope they expand on this with a sequel at some point because it has so many cool ideas and Sony doesn't have enough co-op games.
Agreed. The simple objectives made it a really easy game to play online without a headset, as the basic plan for every map is just to move from objective to objective as fast as possible. Of course there were the idiots who'd try to kill every enemy they saw and ultimately get everyone killed but I'd guess all of those players have long since moved on and the current player base all know what they're doing.

I should really jump back into it and play the DLC at some point.
 

StuBurns

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
7,273
The multi-team thing is interesting, because it seems like the most logical thing possible. At the start of a game's development, you don't need 100+ people, so you either lay those staff off, they sit on their hands for a year or two, or you have a second project for them to rotate on to. But that is basically what they're doing even in the instances where there aren't strictly two teams.

ND might not have two separate teams, but they have multiple projects on the go and I would imagine most of the staff move from one to the next while those projects are ramping up. I haven't checked, but other than the creative leads, I imagine the staff of UC4, TLL and TLoU2 are more or less the same.

If you did staff up to two entirely separate teams, you'd have the exact same issue, in fact, twice the issue. You'd have hundreds of people doing nothing.

The way R* and SE work seems like a viable solution for Sony at this point. You have lots of teams designing games, then essentially have an army of artists who go from project to project completing them. I take it Sony have most of their studios use the same capture volume/studio? So to some extent, they're dipping their toes in that concept. It seems over time, it's likely they'll go further in that direction.
 

StuBurns

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
7,273
It will be more of a smooth transition, PS3 to PS4 was a complete change of architecture. All the first party can now just build on the engines they have.
I actually meant more in terms of game's not being canned.

Like with PS3 we had Eight Days, The Getaway, a Socom and a Wipeout, probably more canned. This time we had Stig's sci-fi game, Amy's UC4, and I'm sure they didn't expect MM to spend the entire generation making Dreams.

I feel like it's unlikely they cancel a single AAA game that's any serious way into development next-gen. All the teams seem to be at a level where they're more reliable. Shit happens, of course, it's not all going to go to plan, but I think it'll be smoother than the last two transitions. But yeah, of course, the technology rolling over 'cleanly' for the first time is also going to provide a huge advantage compared to past generations.
 
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Gerwant

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,042
Helldivers is amazing and highly underrated. I hope Sony still has a partnership with them for another game.

It means probably nothing, but on twitter they (Arrowhead) are following PlayStation and not other publishers. Actually the last two accounts they've followed are Guerrilla Games and PlayStation Europe. And now they are making a AAA 3rd person co-op game so it all points to Helldivers sequel.

I hope.
 
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Oct 30, 2017
3,005
I actually meant more in terms of game's not being canned.

Like with PS3 we had Eight Days, The Getaway, a Socom and a Wipeout, probably more canned. This time we Stig's sci-fi game, Amy's UC4, and I'm sure they didn't expect MM to spend the entire generation making Dreams.

I feel like it's unlikely they cancel a single AAA game that's any serious way into development next-gen. All the teams seem to be at a level where they're more reliable. Shit happens, of course, it's not all going to go to plan, but I think it'll be smoother than the last two transitions. But yeah, of course, the technology rolling over 'cleanly' for the first time is also going to provide a huge advantage compared to past generations.

Yes but we now have engines running and no need to be ported.

Decima engine was built from scratch now Guerilla Games don't need to make a new engine from scratch so they can pinpoint out a game quicker. Hell even Kojima is using that engine.

Naughty Dogg don't have to worry about porting their engine from PS3 architecture to PS4. Now they can just continue to use the same engine as Last of Us 2.

Polyphony can basically reuse Gran Turismo Sport engine. Hell some of the car assets can simply be recycled.

As for your examples many of these games could have been cancelled due to game design and nothing to do with technical aspects. This can still happen with PS5, and happens with game development all the time sometimes we won't hear about it. Can happen early on in development or get canned near the end of a project.
 

StuBurns

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
7,273
The current engines still need to be ported to PS5. Navi doesn't use the same architecture as the current PS4 APU. Yeah, it's still going to be x86, it'll be an easier transition than last time, but it's still a different platform.
 

STech

Member
Sep 24, 2018
1,735
The current engines still need to be ported to PS5. Navi doesn't use the same architecture as the current PS4 APU. Yeah, it's still going to be x86, it'll be an easier transition than last time, but it's still a different platform.

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure that every single engine during this gen has been made keeping in mind future HW updates.

Besides, I think it would be easier to do a emulator runing in PS5 HW rather thar patch every single game.
 
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