Yeah. I may have issues with certain elements of the plot, but at least I feel for some of these people, which is way more than I can say for anyone involved in the GTAV main storyline at least.
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Yeah. I may have issues with certain elements of the plot, but at least I feel for some of these people, which is way more than I can say for anyone involved in the GTAV main storyline at least.
GTA's are generally about bad people doing bad things and it works for the type of experience they are going for but I really like the textured and more nuanced approach they've opted for with RDR2's characters.
Honestly, I'd love to see them take this approach with GTA6.
Well, yeah? Racism played a big part in those comments because his VA certainly didn't suck and his stoicism and mood is actually in line with the way he was raised and the events he had to endure.
lol so true. As much as I love Trevor and Michael for entertainment purposes, I don't think anyone gives a shit what happens to them. Like what happened to Johnny, not even Rockstar has any sentiments for them.
I don't personally subscribe to the view that the voice actor and the character need to share the same race (or any characteristics besides voice) but this explanation is laughable considering how bad the actress they chose botched the South African accent. With such a vibrant film and media industry in SA it seems crazy they could not find someone suitable. So many films are shot there.
Then you're pretty much putting lots of mixed minorities out of work if they basically have to stick to characters that match themselves. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying..
I'm don't think the answer is a black actor needs to represent black character in the second quote.
Actually, I'm very upfront to guys actually representing female characters, and the opposite too. I've seen one of the most convincing acting roles in a Theather a couple of months ago, a guy representing a female single mother struggling to raise two sons (one gay Male son and a daughter with weight problems and lack of self affirmation).
The thing that we need to address is the lack of opportunities to both non-white people and non-male actors. Equal opportunities.
About Charles.... well.... I'm on chapter 3. Still don't know what to think about the character but it shows a lot of scars over the campaign.
Actually, I'm very upfront to guys actually representing female characters, and the opposite too. I've seen one of the most convincing acting roles in a Theather a couple of months ago, a guy representing a female single mother struggling to raise two sons (one gay Male son and a daughter with weight problems and lack of self affirmation).
The thing that we need to address is the lack of opportunities to both non-white people and non-male actors. Equal opportunities.
About Charles.... well.... I'm on chapter 3. Still don't know what to think about the character but it shows a lot of scars over the campaign.
The former is definitely a trope because of alcoholism in many Native American cultures(though his dad isn't Native right?) but care to point to several examples for the later two? I've asked a friend of mine who's a historian of Native Americans and he was unaware of media examples of either. If anything the opposite, Native Americans being hyper aware of their tribe, is the trope. Interestingly enough the game plays with the Mestizo Métis in-between culture that gets ignored in a lot of media but was both common and important although it would have worked better with his parent's ethnicities reversed.
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I question the logistics of this in regards to certain series especially stuff that's dubbed.
User warned: dismissive attacks in a sensitive topic
This.
It's like everything nowadays has to be picked apart by some people to find something to get upset over. Rockstar's casting for Charles and for the other Native American characters used appropriate ethnicities - the guy that does Charles' voice is half-Indian - I don't see what the problem is.
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I agree with the article's point that Charles should have been voiced by someone black or native American. Like, I feel like just him being two different races allowed them a pretty large pool of people to pick from but ultimately decided not to. I don't know if I'd consider him a stereotype, but I'm not too versed in Native American stereotypes so maybe he is. I feel like proper representation for minorities in film and games still have a way to go though, and it sucks.
they couldn't find any black or indigenous actors to vice the character, they only found around 6 actors for all the voices in game
... What ?
It's not racist to not like someone's acting.
I'm also certain that 99% of the people who said those things didn't even knew that the actor was Indian-American.
This is just plain stupid.
I liked Charles in the game, I personally didn't find his character story offensive (although looking back, maybe they could have toned some of it down a bii). I do wish he was voiced by black or native american descent though, give these people an opportunity, Rockstar.
Charles along with Lenny, Hosea and Sadie ended up being my favourites of the gang.
Charles along with Lenny, Hosea and Sadie ended up being my favourites of the gang.
I'm just saying the reason they chose her. In fact, I absolutely hate Laura's acting in most of her roles so I would have had gladly anybody else for the role.
They took her because she's talented, she knows the industry and the casting with actual South Africans didn't work out, that's all.
Yeah when you do the Rain falls quest the US army are seen as shitbags trying ruin them by forcing them out of their lands and Charles as character has a major impact on Arthur in that moment which is handled pretty well in my opinion.
I also found Rain falls to be a great character and is the man who also has a major impact on Arthur the moment riding with him up the mountain with them just talking is really well done.
The problem with this article, though, is that Charles wasn't portrayed by a white VO. I can see why it's a problem, but the article misses the mark into hat regard.
I don't think anyone is asking for perfect representation. I'm Nadleh Whut'en and Métis, if someone were to adapt my life story (the thrilling adventures of an indigenous educator) I wouldn't expect the person cast to belong to the same nations I do. But I would be furious if someone British were cast, even though I'm white-passing.
Indigenous artists aren't some mythical creator like people are making it out in this thread. You put out a casting call, you'll get results.
His voice actor is half-Indian and is of mixed ethnicity descent.
Also there are several people of color voicing characters in this game; in fact, Rockstar has been employing multi-ethnical voice actors for roles in their games for many years.
Come again? Charles was one of the best characters in the whole camp, the guy was genuinely good, there's no need to paint him as some terrible character that Rockstar intentionally made him to suck.
This.
This.
If your first impulse is to tell a Native American writer that the racism she sees in the portrayl of a Native character is not there and the character is in fact not racist at all, you might want to keep your opinion to yourself.
The same could be said for all the white characters in that game. They all sound like country-bumpkins. I didn't find any of characters in the game to be offensive in that regard.
In fact, I really appreciate how the game's plot was about the plight of the oppressed and the heroes were going against the grain of what the societal norms were at the time. Equality, women's rights, Native American's rights, helping the poor, environmentalism, were all things that Arthur was into.
In fact, I really appreciate how the game's plot was about the plight of the oppressed and the heroes were going against the grain of what the societal norms were at the time. Equality, women's rights, Native American's rights, helping the poor, environmentalism, were all things that Arthur was into.
I mean her accent wasn't very good. And the thing about actors is that they bring a lot to a role, having an actual POC play a POC adds a lot to the role. Imagine how different Delsin may have been as a character if he wasn't yet another character played by Troy Baker, or alternatively, imagine how different Marcus Holloway would be if he wasn't specifically played by a black actor who put a lot of his own nuances into the role. An actor's background brings a lot to any given role.
The part about the buffalo didn't come out of no where, the US government mass killed them to starve out Native Americans
Charles was mad for a historically sound reason
Charles was mad for a historically sound reason
Indian as in from India. The actor is half-Parsi, the character is half-Native American. Not the same. That being said, the actor's mixed race background does lend itself well to the character, even if the ethnicities are different.
I thought Charles was one of the more respectable characters of the gang. But his existence within the story is to a) facilitate hunting and b) facilitate communications between the Native American characters in the game, whose story is little more than an accent for Arthur and Dutch's story. It's all respectful, but still not ideal since once again like in the majority of American Western stories, Native American plight is used solely for the development of the (usually White) lead characters.
Probably my biggest issue with Charles and the other Native characters in RDR2. But I don't agree that any of it was overtly racist.
Probably my biggest issue with Charles and the other Native characters in RDR2. But I don't agree that any of it was overtly racist.
holy hell, I can't handle all these shit tier hot takes. They come too fast and frequently. Charles background is a product of the times and written authentically. A black mother who would be ripped away during a time of incredible prejudice and shaming and outlaws. An alcoholic native american heritage father who is totally disenfranchised with the world being ripped away from him. These things happened. This is being made political for all the wrong reasons.
I may be speaking out of turn when it comes to media representation, because we're often under-represented in media in general. What I was referring to in the second points are the disproportionate number of First Nations children in Canada in the care of child services, and the resources available to reconnect children with their family and nations. Roughly 6% of all First Nations children are in foster care.
Yes you're right we should take her word as gospel without any further thought whatsoever.
Charles is my favourite character in the entire game, I don't care if his actor isn't Native American.
I mean, you shouldn't be surprised since Charles isn't the main character, Arthur is.
Everything that happens in the story, whether it includes Indian-American, serves the purpose of telling Arthur's story, not the other way around.
I can't comment on the portrayal of Charles since I haven't played the game, and I'm not gonna do it based on the writer's interpretations. But for the casting thing, yeah I kinda get it. Since minorities are underpresented in the field, so not casting them in roles that would reflect their own ethnicity/identity is not good. This wouldn't be an issue if they weren't so underpresented. People of any ethnicity should be able to act another ethnicity, in voice acting atleast. But we don't really have minority actors acting in roles portraying white people. So least that should happen is to hire minorities for minority roles.
Edit: Huh, seems like most of the roles were casted in that way.
Edit: Huh, seems like most of the roles were casted in that way.
Great character, coulda had a better VA choice, but first I'm hearing of "digital/animated _____ face"
Dunno if it makes it any better but... he isn't white. https://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/Noshir-Dalal/
I guess I would find it offensive if a white voice actor changed his mannerisms/voice to sound more black for a black character. Or latino or whatever. But here it seems fine? idk.
Dunno if it makes it any better but... he isn't white. https://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/Noshir-Dalal/
I guess I would find it offensive if a white voice actor changed his mannerisms/voice to sound more black for a black character. Or latino or whatever. But here it seems fine? idk.
So here's something I always wonder when it comes to this debate.
What about stuff like anime/game dubs?
This isn't intended to be any sort of gatcha im honestly curious as I'm not the most aware of how this is viewed with other cultures.
As someone who watches a lot of dubbed games and anime I've often wondered how that factored into the "characters should be voiced by people of their own ethnicity."
I just wonder if this is considered alright or not and how people who think this factor in dub work.
Another thing I wondered is where the line is drawn especially if your considering the characters cultrure as a factor. Like Is it alright that Vietnamese-American Xanthe Huynh voices the Japanese Haru?
What about stuff like anime/game dubs?
This isn't intended to be any sort of gatcha im honestly curious as I'm not the most aware of how this is viewed with other cultures.
As someone who watches a lot of dubbed games and anime I've often wondered how that factored into the "characters should be voiced by people of their own ethnicity."
I just wonder if this is considered alright or not and how people who think this factor in dub work.
Another thing I wondered is where the line is drawn especially if your considering the characters cultrure as a factor. Like Is it alright that Vietnamese-American Xanthe Huynh voices the Japanese Haru?
The way you phrased this response seems to indicate you think the character is Indian.
If you think someone's race should prevent them from voicing an opinion, you might want to...rethink.
I disagree, there are plenty of side characters and npcs in RDR2 that have their own little stories in the game that barely affect Arthur's own if at all. But you don't really encounter any other Native American characters other than the ones that directly affect the main story.
Troy Baker playing Delsin Rowe or Laura Bailey playing Nadine. Neither very convincing as someone from that background despite both putting in decent performances.
"I like the character, therefore it's not racist" is such a bizarre argument being thrown around in this thread lmao
Well said :)
If you see in the quote above, the fact that he is multi-ethnic I think gives him a good angle on the character of Charles. I also now know that his half-Indian descent is from India, so not the same as Native American.
Always find it funny that users who post this kind of shit never post again itt despite this discussion *needing* to take place. Such low effort bait.
The few times Arthur has extended conversations with Rains Fall are my favorite moments in the game.
This on Noshir Dalal's Website (actor that plays Charles)
Nuff said. Feels like the author just wanted to be cool and stick it to Rockstar...lol. if it's not a thread a day, it's an article a day just reaching, at this point, to discredit everything Rockstar games. Where were all the outrages, such as this one, a year ago for other games?
Granted, it would've been nice to have an actual Native American, but diversity for the sake of diversity is not diversity. And this kid, and cast, I feel, are pretty diverse
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Alright, but I don't think that's really a trope is it? Those are about media representations.
When most people think about Native Americans/First Peoples I don't think something that comes to mind is lacking a mother, which renders this a bit of a toothless complaint. Meanwhile I honestly can't think of a Native American character with any amount of backstory where we don't know their tribe despite the fact that this actually would have been a very serious issue for a decent number of people.
That's not to say everything about the character is great, but just those avenues of critique seem a bit weak.
I don't think that's what people are really saying, I think the article does a piss-poor job of explaining why they believe this character is a racist caricature, and the response is that Charles doesn't come across that way at all to the majority of people commenting on that particular point.
Right? I was thinking the VA was like a white dude or something, turns out the actual voice actor is an oppressed minority but not the exact oppressed minority of the character he was portraying so shame on Rockstar.