It gets extremely dark, as you would expect a story starring the Master as the protagonist would.
Yeah it really felt like they saved up the budget for them, they may be the best looking episodes of the entire series.Looking at those images, man, Heaven Sent and Hell Bent are simply outstanding.
I have to say I didn't like it so much at first but after rematches and thinking about it I agree it's pretty much perfect. The Doctor and Clara really had the closest Doctor-companion relationship in the end, and that's the main thing Hell Bent is about. They'd basically become equals, except that one didn't have a way of escaping death. Throughout the series the Doctor had grown tired of the rules, and the conclusion of that was Hell Bent. It even served as a kind of 10th anniversary finale, with the return to Gallifrey and the RTD Doctor's theme coming back.Hell Bent is absolutely perfect and the best finale of any Doctor Who season in my opinion. It ties all the themes of the season perfectly and is a wonderful end to Clara's story.
Hell Bent is absolutely perfect and the best finale of any Doctor Who season in my opinion. It ties all the themes of the season perfectly and is a wonderful end to Clara's story.
Just rewatching Series 9 and wanted to post an appreciation for the cinematography. A totally different look from S8, dark with more muted colours and rich gold lighting.
I enjoyed a lot of Clara, but I found her to be somewhat insufferable by the end (or rather, the writing focusing on her). So when she died, and *then* showed up again, all this after she already had a nice exit written for her the previous Christmas, it seemed a bit much. As I said, in hindsight and contect it's fine, but at the time it felt dragged out.
That's the problem with disappointing your audience (me, in this case, and my wife) is that you don't get given the benefit of the doubt in the moment. Moffatt had burned a lot of good will with us by this point, even if he had rehabilitated somewhat by then. All IMHO of course, but there were strong feelings in our household.
I enjoyed Clara a lot, and especially when Moffat leaned heavily into the perception that she wanted to be the Doctor (i.e. the focus of the show), and wrote her like that, with all the mistakes it holds.
I watch one Doctor Who trailer on YouTube, and now my timeline is filled with suggestions for videos of the series having become too PC. What the crap is this garbage?
I watch one Doctor Who trailer on YouTube, and now my timeline is filled with suggestions for videos of the series having become too PC. What the crap is this garbage?
I watch one Doctor Who trailer on YouTube, and now my timeline is filled with suggestions for videos of the series having become too PC. What the crap is this garbage?
Yeah, I think a lot of people had the wrong expectations for the finale and that's why they were put off by it.Hell Bent was disappointing on first watch, but I liked it a lot the second time. The first time, it was a combo of "Oh no, more Clara" and the disappointment that Gallifrey was pretty ho hum. In hindsight it's not "more Clara" it's a fitting and final end to her arc.
Another big point for her character is when she compares traveling with the Doctor to an addiction at the end of Mummy on the Orient Express. That really cements the direction she's eventually heading in in Hell Bent, and I really like that Don't Stop Me Now plays in both, which is perfect for Clara. And yeah, after Danny Pink dies she stops trying to live a double life.You can pretty much pinpoint the exact moment Clara lost her mind - in Series 8 when she tried to convince a Cyberman that she was the Doctor and it almost believed her for a second. From that point on, the rest of her story arc was her realizing "everyone I care about except the Doctor is dead, so fuck it, I can do anything!" and falling further and further into blindness of her own limitations.
As much as I like Series 9 it's a shame that Twelve and Clara don't actually spend that much time together when you think about it. They're usually separated. It could have really done with one last great adventure with the two of them before Face the Raven instead of Sleep No More, which was an absolute waste.
Yeah, I think a lot of people had the wrong expectations for the finale and that's why they were put off by it.
I actually think Chibnall made a key mistake in the first episode that set him up for failure, and it's one that could've made the "Tardis Team" dynamic more interesting: Grace should have lived and joined the Team, and Yaz should've remained behind as just a one-off. Having all three companions as an actual family unit, and having the Doctor act as this wacky sort-of "relative" who takes them on outrageous adventures through time and space every once in a while, would likely work a lot better with regards to character development on the whole, and result in more interesting connections between the core cast. This may not have fixed my issues with the Doctor and her characterization, but it would've strengthened our connections to Ryan and Graham, while also offering a third character on the team that is centrally connected to them and can be someone who, at least in my opinion, works better as a team member willing to push Graham and especially Ryan into going deeper into mysteries and adventures with the Doctor.
You can pretty much pinpoint the exact moment Clara lost her mind - in Series 8 when she tried to convince a Cyberman that she was the Doctor and it almost believed her for a second. From that point on, the rest of her story arc was her realizing "everyone I care about except the Doctor is dead, so fuck it, I can do anything!" and falling further and further into blindness of her own limitations.
In many ways it's a more nuanced way of doing the whole Davros 'The Doctor turns his companions into weapons' thing from Stolen Earth. There's something horrifically tragic about someone losing the person they love and finding solace in this magic space man who is literally willing to go to hell for her.
I love that the 12th Doctor on the surface seems entirely unsympathetic, dig down a level and you find that he actually cares a lot, but dig down another level and you find that his emotional intelligence and ability to act on his feelings are entirely messed up. That's essentially his progression from Face the Raven > Heaven Sent > Hell Bent. He ends up inadvertently getting Bill killed too by telling her to wait, which again seems nice on the surface but ends up backfiring spectacularly.
These are the types of discussions I desperately wish we could have about literally any of the characters in S11.
Good points. And I remember a lot of people at the time complaining that the focus of the show was too much on Clara and that it was just trying to make her like the Doctor, but what it was also doing was showing how that can be a bad thing, and there are real consequences to it.But at the same time, so much of the season is about them being separated and going to incredible lengths (and pushing each other too far) so they can save the day but most importantly each other The Witch's Familiar : the Doctor goes apeshit after Clara's "apparent death"
Before the Flood : Clara puts ppl in danger while The Doctor tries to change time
The Girl Who Died/The Woman Who lived : a reflection on how The Doctor's attempts to save people can turn out wrong and foreshadowing on Clara's departure and their codependancy
The Zygon Inversion : Clara then again acting like the Doctor to save him from his "evil" version with smart but risky interrogation tactics
I think, considering their relationship was already well established, them spending a lot of screen time on their own wasn't such a problem and, on the contrary, helped their development by showing how they act around outsiders, and also solidifying them as equal partners with their own companions for the episode.
That's clearly the idea in Death in Heaven too when Clara takes the screwdriver to "delete" Danny Pink, and Danny calls him a typical officer.In many ways it's a more nuanced way of doing the whole Davros 'The Doctor turns his companions into weapons' thing from Stolen Earth.
It makes the timing of The Husbands of River Song kind of weird.I 100% believe Peter and Jenna when they say that 12 and Clara were basically married by the end of it.
It makes the timing of The Husbands of River Song kind of weird.
He had a way closer with Clara than he ever did with River.
Capaldi's first two seasons were generally considered boring at the time of airing if I remember correctly. Back on gaf, the thread for series 8 and 9 were just as negative as this one save for Heaven Sent, which I think is pretty much universally loved.Hell Bent is a bit like series 9 in general, in that I recall it reviewing well at the time it aired, then, at some point before series 10, it was getting panned all over the shop.
You could apply that to Capaldi's tenure as a whole, really. I never could understand where the comments about him being "a good actor suffering poor scripts" came from. I mean, Heaven Sent ffs.
I don't think Hell Bent is great, but I never understood where people were coming with the way Capaldi's scripts were worse than all the other Doctors. Did people forget series 2 had Idiot's Lantern, Fear Her, and Love and Monsters all in one season? Or just how underwhelming series 7 is in general?Hell Bent is a bit like series 9 in general, in that I recall it reviewing well at the time it aired, then, at some point before series 10, it was getting panned all over the shop.
You could apply that to Capaldi's tenure as a whole, really. I never could understand where the comments about him being "a good actor suffering poor scripts" came from. I mean, Heaven Sent ffs.
IMO Capaldi had the most consistently good, often great writing of all the Doctors, and yeah Tennant in particular got stuck with a lot of terrible scripts, much more so than Capaldi.I don't think Hell Bent is great, but I never understood where people were coming with the way Capaldi's scripts were worse than all the other Doctors. Did people forget series 2 had Idiot's Lantern, Fear Her, and Love and Monsters all in one season? Or just how underwhelming series 7 is in general?
Heck, the most consistent series Tennant had was series 4, and that one shat itself at the finale.IMO Capaldi had the most consistently good, often great writing of all the Doctors, and yeah Tennant in particular got stuck with a lot of terrible scripts, much more so than Capaldi.
Me personally it is because I think having Clara stay alive at the end is unearned, and contrary to the themes of the previous two episodes. I have slowly turned around my thought on it once I realized series 8 and 9 was about the toxic relationship between Clara and the Doctor, but I still think it is not great and part of Moffat's tendency to overindulge.At the risk of painting too general of a brush, I think the hate towards Hell Bent is because of the twist that the Doctor DGAF about Gallifrey at all and spent his short time there to find a way to get Clara back. I totally loved it as an extension of what he did in Heaven Sent but some people were upset they didn't get their annoying people in funny hats.
Absolutely, that's what I was expecting too at the time. People just weren't expecting Clara to come back, when it made perfect sense for him to want to use Time Lord tech to try to stop her death.At the risk of painting too general of a brush, I think the hate towards Hell Bent is because of the twist that the Doctor DGAF about Gallifrey at all and spent his short time there to find a way to get Clara back. I totally loved it as an extension of what he did in Heaven Sent but some people were upset they didn't get their annoying people in funny hats.
I actually think her death is more tragic after Hell Bent because she dies believing that the Doctor will live the rest of his life forgetting her.Me personally it is because I think having Clara stay alive at the end is unearned, and contrary to the themes of the previous two episodes. I have slowly turned around my thought on it once I realized series 8 and 9 was about the toxic relationship between Clara and the Doctor, but I still think it is not great and part of Moffat's tendency to overindulge.
Absolutely, that's what I was expecting too at the time. People just weren't expecting Clara to come back, when it made perfect sense for him to want to use Time Lord tech to try to stop her death.
I do think after Day of the Doctor with his speech about his journey heading home, it is weird to just leave it at the Doctor choosing to leave and never going back.
I actually think her death is more tragic after Hell Bent because she dies believing that the Doctor will live the rest of his life forgetting her.
I wouldn't say easily, when Series 8 has Kill the Moon (debatable I know, I think it's great), Mummy on the Orient Express, and Flatline, and S9 has Under the Lake, Before the Flood, The Girl Who Died, The Zygon Invasion, The Zygon Inversion, and Face the Raven. All of which I would say are better than any S11 episodes.If this week's episode is good, this is easily the best line-up of guest-written episodes since series 1, if not ever. Easily.
S4 would be a contender were it not for The Doctor's Daughter stinking the place out. No episode this series is even close to being that bad.I would say this has been the best guest ep line-up since either S1 or S4.
Robot of Sherwood and Forest of the Night were so bad that I've never rewatched them, but the Under the Lake story, really? Not the best episodes ever but still far more interesting than anything this series and there's nothing particularly offensive about them.Series 8 had Robot of Sherwood, Time Heist, The Caretaker and In the Forest of the Night, all of which I think are worse than any series 11 guest-written episode.
I also think the Under The Lake two-parter is pretty close to unwatchable garbage, I'm afraid- far worse than any series 11 episode, and pretty close to Modern Who's nadir.
S4 would be a contender were it not for The Doctor's Daughter stinking the place out. No episode this series is even close to being that bad.