Easy Allies |OT| The New Era

Don Draper's Hat · Nov 30, 2017

The Mole group stream was fun but it needs some work. More than one mole is obviously a start but it needs something else too. Not sure what though. Maybe a reason for both sides to want to accomplish their goal.
If the moles successfully disrupt 3 of the 5 games then the normals have to face a forfeit like, I dunno, write and perform a rap about nutrition or something. If the moles fail then they have to do the forfeit.

I also didn't like the screaming out of "he's the mole!" It puts them under scrutiny and makes things much much harder. They should only reveal who they think is the mole at the end.

Umibozu · Nov 30, 2017

Dr. Caroll said:
The fundamental problem with Colin is that he is mean. He is antagonistic, spiteful, and he engages in various forms of harassment. It's why you should always be wary about choosing to die on a hill in defense of internet celebrities, because they often turn out to be unpleasant people. It's not difficult to treat people kindly, but that's apparently too hard for Colin.

I do however, want to point out that ERA's ToS is quite vague. Everything seems to hinge upon P. "Abusing or harassing of other users, including but not limited to the posting of racist, sexist, homophobic, or transphobic content". I have the uneasy feeling that this means whatever moderators want it to mean. I like clarity. I'm a big fan of really longwinded rulebooks where everything is laid out explicitly and everyone knows where they stand. ERA's ToS should be rewritten at some point with clear examples of acceptable and non-acceptable conduct so that everyone is on the same page and there isn't this feeling that these rules are malleable and intentionally vague in order to allow them to be applied selectively. The section about "abusing and harassing other users" very conspicuously omits "based on religion or political belief or ethnicity etc, etc". Most codes of conduct explicitly mention those classes. ERA's doesn't. We haven't had a real blowup here on ERA yet, but sooner or later we're going to end up with one of those situations where black celebrities are being called Uncle Toms, for example, and how is ERA going to respond to that? Is calling a black conservative an Uncle Tom a violation of the ToS? Looking at it, I can't tell. It's arguably both racist and an attack on them for being conservative. I'd like to think it would at least get a warning. ERA doesn't even have a rule against personally attacking other users, which is... frankly odd.

Discussion of piracy is actually prohibited in the ToS, for what it's worth. But I guess in a gaming forum the definition of "piracy" tends to be a little... fluid because users invariably end up in a lot of grey areas. I guess it's a really hard call. I don't blame envy the mods trying to come up with a clear interpretation of that rule.

The administration/moderation has said they do not want to promote Colin or his endeavors outright. This is a privately run forum, and they get to set the standards and guidelines for the community.
The poster who admitted to providing access to colin's content has been suspended/addressed. No grey areas here.

Deleted member 15973 · Nov 30, 2017

Holundrian said:
I'm saying give people time to react before making such a jump in conclusion. I'm looking at the times and honestly it's ridiculous at least leave people 2 hours to react before pulling out the pitchfork on them.

I saw someone say something along those lines 2 pages ago as well

Dr. Caroll · Nov 30, 2017

Alucrid said:
isn't that point P? "abusing or harassing other users, including but not limited..." etc. ultimately a TOS is a only a tool and it's up to whether or not you have faith in the site's staff to wield appropriately.

Sort of, but I do prefer rules to be more explicit. Maybe what I'm actually saying is that ERA should probably write up a proper Code of Conduct. Something formal, comprehensive, and (hopefully) fair. The ToS feels like a stopgap where there's far too much grey area. I think there's room for misinterpretation or outright abuse, particularly as the years pass and new moderators come onboard. I guess one of the problems with an extensive rulebook is that it attracts a lot more backseat moderating.

Holundrian · Nov 30, 2017

iboshow said:
I saw someone say something along those lines 2 pages ago as well

What post are you referring to if I may ask I just woke up and catching up on stuff skimming through stuff I'm not sure which one you're referring to.
---------
def hope the mole concept returns again. But honestly if people enjoyed that they should give voting for mafia or anything similar to it a chance "werewolf, secret hitler". Cause those games are strongly based on having players doubt and deceive each other.

abrack · Nov 30, 2017

Don Draper's Hat said:
The Mole group stream was fun but it needs some work. More than one mole is obviously a start but it needs something else too. Not sure what though. Maybe a reason for both sides to want to accomplish their goal.

Yeah in The Mole TV show they solved puzzles or played games for money, so The Mole's sabotage hurt the pot that the winner received at the end. Not sure exactly how to incorporate that, but something to make success or a higher score matter more to the non-moles would improve it. Still loved the stream!

Moza · Nov 30, 2017

Holundrian said:
(sees the ban for piracy )Way to jump to conclusions.

Gimme the defense I've only seen people ignoring all examples provided and then come in here drive by post variations of "I don't care I don't have any problems with Colin", "people are hating on him for no reason, him being an asshole doesn't justify calling him racist or sexist", "he's a good dude I believe it", etc etc.
Gimme the post that debunks all the shit he's said on twitter. Cause that would be the real moral gymnastics.

Who says I want to make a defence? Was just stating that the poster was being a hypocrite with his actions (and that those actions deserve a ban too, which has since happened).

Mezoly · Nov 30, 2017

Dr. Caroll said:
The fundamental problem with Colin is that he is mean. He is antagonistic, spiteful, and he engages in various forms of harassment. It's why you should always be wary about choosing to die on a hill in defense of internet celebrities, because they often turn out to be unpleasant people. It's not difficult to treat people kindly, but that's apparently too hard for Colin.
.

I agree 100% with this. Colin was one of the first gaming personalities I followed 6 years ago on podcast Beyond. Him and Greg is were I learned about all sorts of aspect of gaming and were I've heard about all the gaming communities including Gaf. In the past year, I came to the conclusion that at best Colin is an ass and disingenuous. Even if you don't think he is a racist or misogynist he is not worth defending. He had fights with everyone including but not limited to his Kinda Funny Facebook community before he left KF, his Twitter followers, Gaf PS I Love You thread, and his own Colin Last Stand subreddit were he stopped going to because they disagreed with him mildly. Imo he is not worth the mods time to moderate his stuff if it was allowed here.

Deleted member 15973 · Nov 30, 2017

I think there needs to be a rule for something being in the poll all the time and losing.

Holundrian · Nov 30, 2017

Moza said:
Who says I want to make a defence? Was just stating that the poster was being a hypocrite with his actions (and that those actions deserve a ban too, which has since happened).

Sure then. The example was just tiring cause people had plenty of time to write up good defenses so seeing people get upset at losing the opportunity to defend against those statement is insanely disingenuous. But if you're saying it was about the piracy all along that solved itself.

Deleted member 18766 · Nov 30, 2017

iboshow said:
I think there needs to be a rule for something being in the poll all the time and losing.

Isn't there one already? Kyle introduced the Ineligibility Fridge in the group stream post this week. Anything which doesn't place 1st or 2nd for 2 weeks in a row can't be put in again for 2 months.

abrack · Nov 30, 2017

iboshow said:
I think there needs to be a rule for something being in the poll all the time and losing.

Kyle's introduced that rule this week. Any game that doesn't make the Top 2 in the poll 2 weeks in a row is ineligible for the next 2 weeks

Edit: Beaten

Rowlf · Nov 30, 2017

iboshow said:
I saw someone say something along those lines 2 pages ago as well

ResetEra is a busy forum with relatively few moderators. As much as we would like to, we simply cannot read every post in every thread. If you see someone make post which you feel violates the Terms of Service, such as the promotion of piracy, please use the handy report feature. It's the little triangle symbol to the right of the post number, and will give you a chance to alert the moderator team to that post and to explain why you deem it to be against the Terms of Service.

Speaking specifically on posts promoting the piracy of intellectual property, such as the sharing of Mr. Moriarty's podcast: this is not allowed and, when brought to our attention, will be dealt with as it was in this thread. That said, this is a thread about Easy Allies and is not a suitable place to discuss the moderation policies of this forum. If you have an issue with how the forum is moderated, I urge you to send either myself or Methuselah a PM with your concerns, and we'd be happy to discuss those concerns with you.

Deleted member 15973 · Nov 30, 2017

Rowlf said:
ResetEra is a busy forum with relatively few moderators. As much as we would like to, we simply cannot read every post in every thread. If you see someone make post which you feel violates the Terms of Service, such as the promotion of piracy, please use the handy report feature. It's the little triangle symbol to the right of the post number, and will give you a chance to alert the moderator team to that post and to explain why you deem it to be against the Terms of Service.

Speaking specifically on posts promoting the piracy of intellectual property, such as the sharing of Mr. Moriarty's podcast: this is not allowed and, when brought to our attention, will be dealt with as it was in this thread. That said, this is a thread about Easy Allies and is not a suitable place to discuss the moderation policies of this forum. If you have an issue with how the forum is moderated, I urge you to send either myself or Methuselah a PM with your concerns, and we'd be happy to discuss those concerns with you.

I guess I rushed to conclusions, my bad.
EDIT: I guess I missed the new rule

Kneefoil · Nov 30, 2017

Don Draper's Hat said:
The Mole group stream was fun but it needs some work. More than one mole is obviously a start but it needs something else too. Not sure what though. Maybe a reason for both sides to want to accomplish their goal.
If the moles successfully disrupt 3 of the 5 games then the normals have to face a forfeit like, I dunno, write and perform a rap about nutrition or something. If the moles fail then they have to do the forfeit.

I also didn't like the screaming out of "he's the mole!" It puts them under scrutiny and makes things much much harder. They should only reveal who they think is the mole at the end.

That would certainly help, but I think it might be hard to avoid entirely. If they could avoid it, though, it might be also good if they wrote down their own votes without revealing it to others, and then reveal the votes after everyone has written something down. This way they could avoid people influencing others with their votes.

I guess something they could do to make things easier for the mole would be to not having the same mole(s) for the whole 2 hours. Draw for the role of the mole, play some games, try to guess who the moles are mid-stream and then reveal the moles, and then have a drawing for a new set of moles. Basically, play more than one game of The Mole on the stream.

Keith Stat · Nov 30, 2017

On the summary that was posted above, I'm all for civil discourse, if it's earned. Oddly enough, It's actually a thing Colin asked for back in the day on the old forum and many of us attempted to have it with him on his opinions on gaming and some other related issues. When people, non-hysterically, brought up many of the falsehoods and other concerns we had (usually with exact time-stamps), he took his ball and went home and called everyone names and swore us off. Since then, we've all seen what a diplomat he can be on Twitter and other platforms. Whenever he lights up whatever hot take (not the fun kind!) of the day he has and receives flak for it, he regresses into petty name calling and assumes everyone else is crazy and all evidence to the contrary is people lying and trying to smear his name. It's this odd repeated cycle where he starts with something brash, there's the predictable response, and then he cherrypicks what he finds is the most hostile or extreme reaction and lumps everyone together into that response and then expresses exasperation about how "absurd" everyone is but never acknowledges the one constant in every instance, himself.

I'm not going to bring up all the dumb shit he has said over the years, it's all out there (it's more then just a couple of tweets), and much of it any community would find offensive. Jones appearing on his Patreon, a Patreon dominated by his majorly controversial political opinions and personality, doesn't sit right with a lot of us. It's difficult to know exactly what and how something was said based on that summary, but it sounds rough. They apparently talked about the overwhelmingly positive podcast feedback (wasn't overwhelmingly great on this side to say the least!), talked shit about one of the websites that has probably(?) the biggest EZA communities besides Patreon, seemingly didn't challenge his past lies/controversies (never expected this, but still let him have free reign to continue down his path) all while playing buddy-buddy with him. It's good that Jones acknowledges it's fine that people vote with their wallet, but I just wonder, was this all worth it? Now the EZA community is bizarrely intertwined for the time being with Colin's significantly controversial politics, plenty of infighting in the EZA community, some actually pulling or considering pulling funding, and Jones didn't really challenge him politically or have much of substance to say other than coaching Colin for the next time he steps in shit.

As I've said before, I'm not pulling my support or any other steps like that. Jones and the rest of EZA have been so great for so long and I'm not going to throw that all away for something "small" like this that I deem as a poor, hopefully isolated decision. This whole situation just came out of left field for seemingly really no good reason and It's a bummer that this has been the dominant "thing" of EZA these past few days and for the immediate future. Hah, I'm about 55 episodes behind on Tabletop, might be time to catch up.

Sidenote: Good job on taking care of the guy offering pirated content. Don't like Colin, but that was a lame thing to do.

Deleted member 5086 · Nov 30, 2017

Can someone clarify the context in which Jones said he's "willing to ruffle some feathers"? The summary makes it seem like Jones threw the community under the bus to stroke Colin's ego. I'm more than disappointed at this point, and ready to pull my pledge, but I'd like to wait for an accurate assessment of what happened.

Dineren · Nov 30, 2017

Toon Link said:
Can someone clarify the context in which Jones said he's "willing to ruffle some feathers"? The summary makes it seem like Jones threw the community under the bus to stroke Colin's ego. I'm more than disappointed at this point, and ready to pull my pledge, but I'd like to wait for an accurate assessment of what happened.

Yeah, the summary looks really bad so I'm hoping it's not accurate. If a good summary isn't out by the time the episode goes public I guess I'll bite the bullet Friday and listen to what he said myself.

DeltaCanuckian · Nov 30, 2017

Keith Stat said:
It's good that Jones acknowledges it's fine that people vote with their wallet, but I just wonder, was this all worth it? Now the EZA community is bizarrely intertwined for the time being with Colin's significantly controversial politics, plenty of infighting in the EZA community, some actually pulling or considering pulling funding, and Jones didn't really challenge him politically or have much of substance to say other than coaching Colin for the next time he steps in shit.

It fucking sucks. What I'm really upset about is that a portion of the community, some really cool people, were so carelessly dismissed and are now being attacked on social media. I'm really disappointed by... I don't know whether it was a lack of foresight, or just not knowing the full breadth of the situation, or just choosing to ignore it, but whatever it was that led Jones to this decision has really bummed me out.

Anti · Nov 30, 2017

Dineren said:
Yeah, the summary looks really bad so I'm hoping it's not accurate. If a good summary isn't out by the time the episode goes public I guess I'll bite the bullet Friday and listen to what he said myself.

Please do us all a favor and clarify because if that summary is correct my opinion on Brandon will lower considerably.

The way he acted through all of this has been eye opener...

DeltaCanuckian said:
It fucking sucks. What I'm really upset about is that a portion of the community, some really cool people, were so carelessly dismissed and are now being attacked on social media. I'm really disappointed by... I don't know whether it was a lack of foresight, or just not knowing the full breadth of the situation, or just choosing to ignore it, but whatever it was that led Jones to this decision has really bummed me out.

This, the worse part is how it seems he dismissed the opinion of the EZA community in general and how some of them are now being harrassed because of that, it seems like he doesnt really care or didnt even notice, just because Colin hasnt done anything wrong to him.

Dineren · Nov 30, 2017

Anti said:
Please do us all a favor and clarify because if that summary is correct my opinion on Brandon will lower considerably

Sure, I can do that if nothing is up by then.

issa · Nov 30, 2017

The mole stream had fun moments. But the game is flawed since the mole doesn't have a goal. Most games of this type have an objective the mole has to achieve before they're discovered as the main way to win. This way there are two primary game ending objectives for both sides: 1) discover/hide the mole's identity, 2) do/stop a measurable amount of sabotage.

My favorite part of the stream was Octodad, especially how much fun Damiani was having with it.

Deleted member 19721 · Nov 30, 2017

Keith Stat said:
On the summary that was posted above, I'm all for civil discourse, if it's earned. Oddly enough, It's actually a thing Colin asked for back in the day on the old forum and many of us attempted to have it with him on his opinions on gaming and some other related issues. When people, non-hysterically, brought up many of the falsehoods and other concerns we had (usually with exact time-stamps), he took his ball and went home and called everyone names and swore us off. Since then, we've all seen what a diplomat he can be on Twitter and other platforms. Whenever he lights up whatever hot take (not the fun kind!) of the day he has and receives flak for it, he regresses into petty name calling and assumes everyone else is crazy and all evidence to the contrary is people lying and trying to smear his name. It's this odd repeated cycle where he starts with something brash, there's the predictable response, and then he cherrypicks what he finds is the most hostile or extreme reaction and lumps everyone together into that response and then expresses exasperation about how "absurd" everyone is but never acknowledges the one constant in every instance, himself.

I'm not going to bring up all the dumb shit he has said over the years, it's all out there (it's more then just a couple of tweets), and much of it any community would find offensive. Jones appearing on his Patreon, a Patreon dominated by his majorly controversial political opinions and personality, doesn't sit right with a lot of us. It's difficult to know exactly what and how something was said based on that summary, but it sounds rough. They apparently talked about the overwhelmingly positive podcast feedback (wasn't overwhelmingly great on this side to say the least!), talked shit about one of the websites that has probably(?) the biggest EZA communities besides Patreon, seemingly didn't challenge his past lies/controversies (never expected this, but still let him have free reign to continue down his path) all while playing buddy-buddy with him. It's good that Jones acknowledges it's fine that people vote with their wallet, but I just wonder, was this all worth it? Now the EZA community is bizarrely intertwined for the time being with Colin's significantly controversial politics, plenty of infighting in the EZA community, some actually pulling or considering pulling funding, and Jones didn't really challenge him politically or have much of substance to say other than coaching Colin for the next time he steps in shit.

As I've said before, I'm not pulling my support or any other steps like that. Jones and the rest of EZA have been so great for so long and I'm not going to throw that all away for something "small" like this that I deem as a poor, hopefully isolated decision. This whole situation just came out of left field for seemingly really no good reason and It's a bummer that this has been the dominant "thing" of EZA these past few days and for the immediate future. Hah, I'm about 55 episodes behind on Tabletop, might be time to catch up.

Sidenote: Good job on taking care of the guy offering pirated content. Don't like Colin, but that was a lame thing to do.

Toon Link said:
Can someone clarify the context in which Jones said he's "willing to ruffle some feathers"? The summary makes it seem like Jones threw the community under the bus to stroke Colin's ego. I'm more than disappointed at this point, and ready to pull my pledge, but I'd like to wait for an accurate assessment of what happened.

you should really take care to jump to such big conclusions based on my summary. whether its my poor writing or you've just misinterpreted what i said, you've come to some conclusions based on things that never happened.

Deleted member 5086 · Nov 30, 2017

trinity said:
you should really take care to jump to such big conclusions based on my summary. whether its my poor writing or you've just misinterpreted what i said, you've come to some conclusions based on things that never happened.

I literally said I want to wait for an accurate assessment and asked for context?

Budi · Nov 30, 2017

trinity said:
thanks for stepping in and trying to keep this under control. the difference of opinion isnt about whether its okay to be racist or misogynistic. its a difference of opinion on whether colin is racist or misogynistic. i've been saying i think he's an asshole and makes dumb arguments and shouldnt be associated with eza since the start but i should be able to question labelling him a racist or a sexist without myself being labelled a nazi sympathiser, something which has happened to me about 4 or 5 times in this thread. i'm no victim and people can call me what they want but if youre going to take a stand about tolerance and discourse i'd think you should consider that people are making fairly reasonable arguments and are then being labelled a racist. i dont see how thats anything but bullying or toxic or offensive. and you should be able to point this out so moderators can take action on it without people resorting to pejoratives or inferring you dont care about racism or sexism.

as for the colin podcast, i'd recommend listening to it. brandon goes in depth about his thoughts on l&r. he feels like it should revolve around civil discourse even if you dont agree with people. that no matter what you do someone will be offended and that you can only try your best and learn from it. they disagree on how to deal with people when they are offended. colin thinks if he's not meaning to offend but you get offended, then thats on you. brandon thinks if it makes someone feel better, he'd take the hit and apologise. they talk about anxiety and depression. and the success of patreon and eza in general. colin is adamant he's not a racist or sexist. and says he's sorry he brought this controversy onto brandon. brandon says he's ready to step into the criticism and learn from it and that he's ok if he ruffles some feathers. they talk about the feedback concerning the podcast being overwhelmingly positive. they talk about how living in an echo chamber is weird. they talk about how some of the people on resetera live in their own reality and just make up defamatory comments about him that arent true and that he feels like he has to get involved in order to defend himself. brandon says he would just take it on the chin if it was him. colin says he's fine with criticism but the lies arent fine. brandon says he needs to do a better job in communicating himself to those that have an issue with him. he also says he's not perfect at this sort of stuff but that he's learning. colin admits he's brash and that brandon is more kind. colin reiterates that he's fine with people living their own lives. gender, race, etc etc. he's fine with it. he says he's sorry that brandon copped some of the flack for being associated with him. he said that by and large eza fans are good people. brandon says going forward he's looking to engage further and go deeper on these issues with people in the community. colin says he has an issue with people threatening brandon with their financial support. brandon says he's proud of people removing their support and exercising their voices. and he hopes in the future both communities can come together via gaming. jones said zelda is his goty. and colin thinks horizon.

Thanks for the summary. According to this I think Jones handled it well and Moriarty should take some notes (he probably didn't). Like the bit about offending someone and apologizing because you did that. Even if it wasn't your intention and it was without malice, you take that as an opportunity to learn and then you know better. And you should apologize because what you said had strong negative effect on someone, someone was hurt. And as Jones said, Moriarty should communicate better with those who disagree or have been offended by him. That was the exact issue that got me so frustrated when I tried to dig info on this. It seems to be impossible for him to admit that he fucked up, that's something I find insufferable. Own up to your mistakes and learn from it.

I don't know, they seemingly discussed more about these things than I expected. And I'm happy about that. But atleast from that summary I don't get the vibes that Moriarty did much self-reflecting. Only explained why he is like a rock that wont budge. Hopefully some of that discussion stays with him and he spends some time thinking about it off air. Even just a little bit of humility would do wonders for Moriarty.

And I absolutely love that Jones isn't taking the role of a victim at all. Even when talking about people dropping their pledges because of this. I really appreciate that. Even though this discussion was with Moriarty, I respect Jones bit more now because of what his stances are.

Deleted member 19721 · Nov 30, 2017

Toon Link said:
The summary makes it seem like Jones threw the community under the bus to stroke Colin's ego.

all good. i kinda regret typing out the summary now. i naively thought it might assuage some of the vitriol. but i guess not.

Deleted member 5086 · Nov 30, 2017

trinity said:
all good. i kinda regret typing out the summary now. i naively thought it might assuage some of the vitriol. but i guess not.

I haven't seen anyone taking your summary as absolute fact. You quoted only part of my post. In the sentence preceding it, I asked for clarification on the context, i.e. I wanted to make sure I understood it correctly before reacting. In the sentence that comes after that quote, I said I would be waiting for an accurate assessment of the conversation before reacting. To say that that is jumping to conclusions is what you would call jumping to conclusions imo.

tomofthepops · Nov 30, 2017

I've listened to Colin since his first ever appearance on podcast beyond, that's nearly 10 years of listening to him through podcasts,videos, articles. Can someone give me hard evidence of him being racist, homophobic,sexist (not the "joke") ?

ManUtd · Nov 30, 2017

I feel sad for the gaming community, We have to accept different views and opinions. We have to debate stuff that we don't like, if we choose not to and just ridicule the other side.. that will only further seperate us, we need to find a way to unify us even though we have different views and political ideology. If you discuss things with a good manner I don't really care if you're left or right, in the end we are all human beings with equal value.

JayC3 · Nov 30, 2017

tomofthepops said:
I've listened to Colin since his first ever appearance on podcast beyond, that's nearly 10 years of listening to him through podcasts,videos, articles. Can someone give me hard evidence of him being racist, homophobic,sexist (not the "joke") ?

Parroting racism: https://www.resetera.com/threads/easy-allies-ot-the-new-era.703/page-53#post-1288065 I hope I don't have to explain to you why this is so problematic but let me know if you need some elaboration.
Being Transphobic: https://www.resetera.com/threads/easy-allies-ot-the-new-era.703/page-72#post-1519835
Being sexist: The "joke", as you call it, is sexist, full stop. On a spectrum of sexism, it might fall on the low end, but making the joke on a day when women were marching and protesting, and then doubling down when criticized, prompting him to get thrown out of Kinda Funny. Does all this happen just due to a simple "joke"?
Being malicious: Singling out an EZA community member for harassment by A) finding a tweet that was addressed to Jones (and not Colin) about his concerns with collaborating with Colin; B) blasting out that tweet to all his followers; C) reposting a screenshot of the tweet after the community member deleted the post and locked down his social media because he started getting harassed. This pattern of harassment has happened before, so he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt and say that he didn't know that that would happen. And doing this when he could have easily ignored some Joe Schmoe making a Twitter post and when he has a large following? That's the height of irresponsible use of social media and is actively malicious.

Tygre · Nov 30, 2017

trinity said:
as for the colin podcast, i'd recommend listening to it. brandon goes in depth about his thoughts on l&r. he feels like it should revolve around civil discourse even if you dont agree with people. that no matter what you do someone will be offended and that you can only try your best and learn from it. they disagree on how to deal with people when they are offended. colin thinks if he's not meaning to offend but you get offended, then thats on you. brandon thinks if it makes someone feel better, he'd take the hit and apologise. they talk about anxiety and depression. and the success of patreon and eza in general. colin is adamant he's not a racist or sexist. and says he's sorry he brought this controversy onto brandon. brandon says he's ready to step into the criticism and learn from it and that he's ok if he ruffles some feathers. they talk about the feedback concerning the podcast being overwhelmingly positive. they talk about how living in an echo chamber is weird. they talk about how some of the people on resetera live in their own reality and just make up defamatory comments about him that arent true and that he feels like he has to get involved in order to defend himself. brandon says he would just take it on the chin if it was him. colin says he's fine with criticism but the lies arent fine. brandon says he needs to do a better job in communicating himself to those that have an issue with him. he also says he's not perfect at this sort of stuff but that he's learning. colin admits he's brash and that brandon is more kind. colin reiterates that he's fine with people living their own lives. gender, race, etc etc. he's fine with it. he says he's sorry that brandon copped some of the flack for being associated with him. he said that by and large eza fans are good people. brandon says going forward he's looking to engage further and go deeper on these issues with people in the community. colin says he has an issue with people threatening brandon with their financial support. brandon says he's proud of people removing their support and exercising their voices. and he hopes in the future both communities can come together via gaming. jones said zelda is his goty. and colin thinks horizon.

If this is an even halfway accurate summary then I'm even more disappointed in Brandon than I was before.

This sucks.

tomofthepops said:
I've listened to Colin since his first ever appearance on podcast beyond, that's nearly 10 years of listening to him through podcasts,videos, articles. Can someone give me hard evidence of him being racist, homophobic,sexist (not the "joke") ?

Your pre-emptive denial that the sexist joke which caused him to quit KF was sexist suggests that no evidence I provide would be accepted, so I'm disinclined to acquiesce to your request.

I would instead suggest Googling "Colin Moriarty denies X" where X is the bigotry of your choice. Sexism, Racism, Transphobia, pick your poison.

ManUtd said:
I feel sad for the gaming community, We have to accept different views and opinions. We have to debate stuff that we don't like, if we choose not to and just ridicule the other side.. that will only further seperate us, we need to find a way to unify us even though we have different views and political ideology. If you discuss things with a good manner I don't really care if you're left or right, in the end we are all human beings with equal value.

What if someone holds the "different view" that not all humans have equal value? Is than an opinion we should accept? If someone argues in a "good manner" that racism doesn't exist, is that okay with you?

Also, since when has Colin ever argued in a "good manner"? Even his staunchest defenders would agree he is a brash asshole, in fact that's pretty much his selling point, being a loud jerk.

Being all "kumbaya let's have a chat around the campfire and meet in the middle" is an outlandishly naive perspective for dealing with people like Colin.

Deleted member 19721 · Nov 30, 2017

i thought we werent allowed to talk about colin anymore beyond the podcast? wheres the consistency?

Deleted member 15973 · Nov 30, 2017

trinity said:
i thought we werent allowed to talk about colin anymore beyond the podcast? wheres the consistency?

You can report them I guess

Deleted member 5086 · Nov 30, 2017

trinity said:
i thought we werent allowed to talk about colin anymore beyond the podcast? wheres the consistency?

They said we weren't allowed to talk about his podcast, except for that one episode. We have been discussing Colin all week with mods clearly paying attention to the thread, so that isn't an issue.

Chainshada · Nov 30, 2017

trinity said:
i thought we werent allowed to talk about colin anymore beyond the podcast? wheres the consistency?

Any defense of Colin's previously publicized social views will still not be allowed, however, as they pretty clearly go against our Terms of Service and Rules.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Mods stated that it's the defense of his statements/social views and the promotion of his content that are not welcome here.

dickroach · Nov 30, 2017

so there can't be a discussion where anyone takes the other side, so why's this still going? it's been 20 pages

tomofthepops · Nov 30, 2017

JayC3 said:
Parroting racism: https://www.resetera.com/threads/easy-allies-ot-the-new-era.703/page-53#post-1288065 I hope I don't have to explain to you why this is so problematic but let me know if you need some elaboration.
Being Transphobic: https://www.resetera.com/threads/easy-allies-ot-the-new-era.703/page-72#post-1519835
Being sexist: The "joke", as you call it, is sexist, full stop. On a spectrum of sexism, it might fall on the low end, but making the joke on a day when women were marching and protesting, and then doubling down when criticized, prompting him to get thrown out of Kinda Funny. Does all this happen just due to a simple "joke"?
Being malicious: Singling out an EZA community member for harassment by A) finding a tweet that was addressed to Jones (and not Colin) about his concerns with collaborating with Colin; B) blasting out that tweet to all his followers; C) reposting a screenshot of the tweet after the community member deleted the post and locked down his social media because he started getting harassed. This pattern of harassment has happened before, so he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt and say that he didn't know that that would happen. And doing this when he could have easily ignored some Joe Schmoe making a Twitter post and when he has a large following? That's the height of irresponsible use of social media and is actively malicious.

Thank you for giving me actual examples, I agree that his behaviour is deplorable in these cases. I still like his content though, does this make me a bad person ? (Serious question) I find his history videos interesting and enjoy his take on games. I want to respect the wishes of the people that he has hurt but I don't want to leave interesting content that i enjoy behind.

BBboy20 · Nov 30, 2017

tomofthepops said:
Thank you for giving me actual examples, I agree that his behaviour is deplorable in these cases. I still like his content though, does this make me a bad person ? (Serious question) I find his history videos interesting and enjoy his take on games. I want to respect the wishes of the people that he has hurt but I don't want to leave interesting content that i enjoy behind.

Well you can choose content or you can choose victims.

JayC3 · Nov 30, 2017

tomofthepops said:
Thank you for giving me actual examples, I agree that his behaviour is deplorable in these cases. I still like his content though, does this make me a bad person ? (Serious question) I find his history videos interesting and enjoy his take on games. I want to respect the wishes of the people that he has hurt but I don't want to leave interesting content that i enjoy behind.

No, I don't think it makes you a bad person. There's so much entertainment out there that is problematic or comes from problematic people. And so there's an element of separating the art (or discussion) from the artist. I think it's just respecting that everyone has a different line, and in this case, Colin has crossed the line for a lot of people, which is why there has been so much disappointment in how Jones has handled things.

Basically, I think if someone sees people giving reasons for their disappointment, and their first reaction is to gloat, or say that Colin won, or whatever, then that's very much not L&R. But at the same time, I think it's okay to enjoy problematic content as long as you can acknowledge it and reflect on where your line is, and what that means about you as a person. And if you see a bunch of people in distress about something that's happening, maybe try to empathize and understand why they feel the way they do.

Edit: I just want to add that to a certain extent, I can understand those who say "why can't we just talk about the games?" I think it can and has lead to problems long-term, but I know that everyone has their own issues, and it can be hard and draining after everything to have to deal with more, with issues that don't necessarily affect you, especially when gaming is an outlet and escape for many of us. I don't want to try to speak for everyone, but I think that for a lot of us, when we bring up issues, we're doing so because we think it'll make the world a better place. So I hope that people will take us at our word, that if we say something that you think is harsh or extreme, that you know that there's a reason for it and that we genuinely feel that way. And on the flip side, I hope we can, if we're able, to extend that courtesy back if we see someone willing to engage and understand.

tomofthepops · Nov 30, 2017

JayC3 said:
No, I don't think it makes you a bad person. There's so much entertainment out there that is problematic or comes from problematic people. And so there's an element of separating the art (or discussion) from the artist. I think it's just respecting that everyone has a different line, and in this case, Colin has crossed the line for a lot of people, which is why there has been so much disappointment in how Jones has handled things.

Basically, I think if someone sees people giving reasons for their disappointment, and their first reaction is to gloat, or say that Colin won, or whatever, then that's very much not L&R. But at the same time, I think it's okay to enjoy problematic content as long as you can acknowledge it (and maybe reflect on where your line is as well).

Thank you for having a dialogue with me, I'm trying to be better. Your right I do need to reflect on my line, I need to do a better job of respecting other people's as well.

Tygre · Nov 30, 2017

dickroach said:
so there can't be a discussion where anyone takes the other side, so why's this still going? it's been 20 pages

Because, despite all appearances, this isn't about Colin.

It's about Colin's impact on Brandon, EZA, and the EZA community.

tomofthepops said:
Thank you for giving me actual examples, I agree that his behaviour is deplorable in these cases. I still like his content though, does this make me a bad person ? (Serious question) I find his history videos interesting and enjoy his take on games. I want to respect the wishes of the people that he has hurt but I don't want to leave interesting content that i enjoy behind.

Liking his content doesn't make you a bad person. Going to bat for him, or defending his bigotry, probably would though.

JayC3 · Nov 30, 2017

tomofthepops said:
Thank you for having a dialogue with me, I'm trying to be better. Your right I do need to reflect on my line, I need to do a better job of respecting other people's as well.

Thanks for listening! L&R.

Tregard · Nov 30, 2017

Don Draper's Hat said:
The Mole group stream was fun but it needs some work. More than one mole is obviously a start but it needs something else too. Not sure what though. Maybe a reason for both sides to want to accomplish their goal.
If the moles successfully disrupt 3 of the 5 games then the normals have to face a forfeit like, I dunno, write and perform a rap about nutrition or something. If the moles fail then they have to do the forfeit.

I also didn't like the screaming out of "he's the mole!" It puts them under scrutiny and makes things much much harder. They should only reveal who they think is the mole at the end.

abrack said:
Yeah in The Mole TV show they solved puzzles or played games for money, so The Mole's sabotage hurt the pot that the winner received at the end. Not sure exactly how to incorporate that, but something to make success or a higher score matter more to the non-moles would improve it. Still loved the stream!

Kneefoil said:
That would certainly help, but I think it might be hard to avoid entirely. If they could avoid it, though, it might be also good if they wrote down their own votes without revealing it to others, and then reveal the votes after everyone has written something down. This way they could avoid people influencing others with their votes.

I guess something they could do to make things easier for the mole would be to not having the same mole(s) for the whole 2 hours. Draw for the role of the mole, play some games, try to guess who the moles are mid-stream and then reveal the moles, and then have a drawing for a new set of moles. Basically, play more than one game of The Mole on the stream.

issa said:
The mole stream had fun moments. But the game is flawed since the mole doesn't have a goal. Most games of this type have an objective the mole has to achieve before they're discovered as the main way to win. This way there are two primary game ending objectives for both sides: 1) discover/hide the mole's identity, 2) do/stop a measurable amount of sabotage.

My favorite part of the stream was Octodad, especially how much fun Damiani was having with it.

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone for your kind words on the stream idea, obviously I only gave the suggestion and the content was all theirs, but it's still nice to hear :)

On the point of how to improve the idea (promising to hear so many folks want it to happen again!), a lot of the constructive criticisms I've spotted (eliminations, set points to score, changing the mole) were things I purposefully left out so as not to overwhelm the people voting in either poll, or the allies themselves. I kept the pitch pretty loose outside of the core concept so that it was more palatable, but from this point if they decide to do it again, I think they'll naturally build on the concept. I don't necessarily think you need to have a set goal for the mole themselves (personally I think the more rigid you make the "Mole" metagame, the more work it all becomes), but it's certainly something they can try. I'm excited to see it pop up again in the future :)

Helldivers would definitely work as a game choice, now just need to think of a few more!

Deleted member 4976 · Nov 30, 2017

I need someone to listen to it and tell me that summary ain't true. :(

PWRade · Nov 30, 2017

That summary of Colin's podcast sounds more disappointing than I thought it would be.

trinity said:
brandon thinks if it makes someone feel better, he'd take the hit and apologise.

I don't know why, but this part makes me think of "sorry you were offended" which isn't really an apology to a person in my eyes. Hope i'm just getting things wrong though.

Tregard said:
Helldivers would definitely work as a game choice, now just need to think of a few more!

I think Magicka 2 and Mother Russia Bleeds could be good games for the next mole stream, both have friendly fire so could be fun.

Deleted member 19721 · Nov 30, 2017

i regret typing the summary. should have just let you guys interpret the interview on your own in your own time.

Stowaway Silfer · Nov 30, 2017

trinity said:
i regret typing the summary. should have just let you guys interpret the interview on your own in your own time.

Nah man. You did good and I, along with others here are grateful for you taking the time to type it here.

MrMette · Nov 30, 2017

Primethius said:
I need someone to listen to it and tell me that summary ain't true. :(

I am not paying for and/or giving my time to that podcast personally.
I don't think that summary read as bad as it does to a lot of people here, but I understand why it does to some of you. I am pleasantly surprised he did challenge Colin on his own show (from what I can see from the summary) even if it was only a little bit.

Jones probably just has the hope everybody can peacefully work/play together. It is one of the reason EZA is called Easy Allies if I remember correctly in that they wanted to work together with everybody.
I don't think it is wrong to hope those things. I do believe it is almost impossible though. It is unfortunate as I wish it would be possible as well for everybody to play together (in general, not specifically to these 2 communities), but too much has happened/said in this case that I don't see how this can ever work and that's ok.

MrMette · Nov 30, 2017

trinity said:
i regret typing the summary. should have just let you guys interpret the interview on your own in your own time.

Don't feel bad about it, I don't think listening to the podcast would change a lot of peoples minds anyway and this way we at least somewhat know what was talked about.

Joqu · Nov 30, 2017

It's tough to judge things from a summary and I don't want to support the real thing, but it really doesn't sound to me like Jones challenged much if anything. It just sounds a whole lot like the stuff he said in the CoJ, so no surprises there.

I am surprised it got touched upon at all, and I suppose that's a good thing, but then there's stuff like "they talk about how some of the people on resetera live in their own reality"? Is that how Jones feels? I really hope that's just a bad summary man, there's a whole lot there that rubs me the wrong way.

I really believe Jones is trying to do a good thing here, but man. It just comes across as naive.

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