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headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,605
What a pile of crap all around, there's no place for that mess and dare I say, the person who compiled the screenshots (Andrea) is literally the most blatantly racist person out of the bunch; for her to be calling another person a nazi you'd think it'd at least rise to their level of shit but that's not even the case based on what was posted.
 

lowmelody

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,101
I'm not sure why people latch on to the "differing opinions" line when they quite literally also said on Twitter moments later that the posts are actionable pending real proof.



I don't know, I guess I just don't see the problem with the first statement. What's the difference between saying nothing and banning him and saying "we're not banning him yet but we will as soon as we get more proof" other than the second encourages more people to give them evidence?

Also in the same statement, just before the "differing opinions" they condemn any sort of discrimination. But people just take the next sentence on it's own and run with it. This happens a lot to my experience (outside of this case) and I find it very problematic. People ignore everything else if they find one word or sentence they can latch onto.

The problem is that 'different opinion' has no place in the calculus in whether or not to ban hateful nazi shit. Every place that has dropped the ball on allowing modern nazi ideology to propagate and spread to people like Grav will all tell you that they are 'against discrimination' yet they all also said that modern nazi shit was just different opinion.

Waiting for proof and not banning is one thing, citing not banning for difference of opinion as part of that reasoning is another.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
The problem is that 'different opinion' has no place in the calculus in whether or not to ban hateful nazi shit. Every place that has dropped the ball on allowing modern nazi ideology to propagate and spread to people like Grav will all tell you that they are 'against discrimination' yet they all also said that modern nazi shit was just different opinion.

Waiting for proof and not banning is one thing, citing not banning for difference of opinion as part of that reasoning is another.
Oh sure, I get why people often take issue with "different opinion" phrase. But in this context, discrimination/bigotry didn't seem to be considered "different opinion" since as the guy was banned and as they also said that they condemn any discrimination right in the same statement. With everything considered here, it feels bit weird to latch onto it. But I do understand why people often take issue with that specific wording, just that clearly here "difference of opinion" doesn't include bigotry. I've seen plenty of people complain about their bans from Gaf or now from Era for just "sharing an opinion", so I'm aware that it's often used as a bullshit excuse/reasoning.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
415
User Banned (2 Weeks): Trolling, dismissing bigotry.
Jordan Peterson is considered to be offensive? Huh, people really do take offense to everything don't they.
 

BigJeffery

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,338
The problem is that 'different opinion' has no place in the calculus in whether or not to ban hateful nazi shit. Every place that has dropped the ball on allowing modern nazi ideology to propagate and spread to people like Grav will all tell you that they are 'against discrimination' yet they all also said that modern nazi shit was just different opinion.

Waiting for proof and not banning is one thing, citing not banning for difference of opinion as part of that reasoning is another.

They literally said the nazi shit was bannable pending conclusive evidence lmao. People are tilting at windmills here.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,798
I'd respond favorably to that level of apology if it weren't for the deluge of people hitting him up on Twitter begging him to be honest, pointing out how recent his change of heart is, and otherwise claiming they know better about him and what he believes. Dude really won't have a friend on either side after this: nobody will believe he has changed on either side, so the apology just ends up looking like a last ditch effort to avoid the controversy bubbling into a cancellation of his Twitch account (which, by the way, should probably happen if half the stuff discussed on Twitter he has been involved with).
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,980
Jordan Peterson is considered to be offensive? Huh, people really do take offense to everything don't they.

Jordan Peterson stated "The people who hold that our culture is an oppressive patriarchy, they don't want to admit that the current hierarchy might be predicated on competence."

I think it's fair that quite a few people find that line of thought particularly offensive.
 

lowmelody

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,101
They literally said the nazi shit was bannable pending conclusive evidence lmao. People are tilting at windmills here.

Yes, they eventually banned him but the issue I have is with the initial reasoning for not banning him in the first place. The premise is shaky because even a cursory investigation or search of this person by GDQ would have yielded the proof they said they lacked. Something the minorities that take part in GDQ should expect at bare minimum. The last thing that should have followed was stating they don't ban for difference of opinion. It makes it look like they gave into blowback more than a principled stance.

When the subject is gg/alt right/nazi the word opinion shouldn't be spoken. Proof or not.

It's not like I'm boycotting GDQ anything. I just wish their reaction was more decisive and pointed.
 
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Kevers

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
14,538
Syracuse, NY
I'm really surprised how much work had to be done before GDQ was willing to kick their ass to the curb. Don't they also ban people who swear even once during an actual GDQ run or was that rumor overblown?
 

PSqueak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,464
I'm really surprised how much work had to be done before GDQ was willing to kick their ass to the curb. Don't they also ban people who swear even once during an actual GDQ run or was that rumor overblown?

At least there was verification and action taken, so this leaves no room for anybody involved to say they were unjustly dropped.
 
Oct 25, 2017
413
Vancouver, Canada
It seems fair to me that they exercised an abundance of caution when they received evidence in a format that could be doctored, until they received more and better evidence

Then don't release a statement after four hours, man. They aren't wrong for wanting to be absolutely certain, but rushing to release a grand statement (especially about two people with an existing reputation) was really, really stupid.
 

Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,508
It seems fair to me that they exercised an abundance of caution when they received evidence in a format that could be doctored, until they received more and better evidence
The bigger whiff was characterizing alleged sympathy with nazi/white supremacist causes as a mere 'difference of opinion.'
 
Oct 30, 2017
15,278

BigJeffery

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,338
I feel like people read GDQs second statement (the "we need more evidence, no action taken for now") entirely differently than I did. They literally ask for more reports and say that the Discord screenshots aren't conclusive enough to justify banning anyone yet. Why people think that was a "grand statement" absolving Goose and Grav of guilt is beyond me, and honestly seems like people are willfully going out of there way to see negligence instead of caution. Considering the source of the allegations, I think an ~8 hour turnaround time is pretty impressive, and honestly a lot better than I expected.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
No one's ideals change that quickly in 5 months. Dude is trying to save face. It's a cookie cutter apology sans cute dog.
Yeah not really buying it, though I really don't know the guy at all. Wasn't even aware of him before this. But I do hope he has changed, or will change or atleast will work on bettering himself from now on. Hopefully this would be a wake up call atleast.
 

Garlic

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,687
Yeah not really buying it, though I really don't know the guy at all. Wasn't even aware of him before this. But I do hope he has changed, or will change or atleast will work on bettering himself from now on. Hopefully this would be a wake up call atleast.

Given that he was saying how important it is to hide your true beliefs from outsiders for political reasons, I would approach this apology with extreme skepticism unless he engages in some pretty extensive atonement for his past actions.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
Given that he was saying how important it is to hide your true beliefs from outsiders for political reasons, I would approach this apology with extreme skepticism unless he engages in some pretty extensive atonement for his past actions.
Yeah it's quite impossible to tell when people are truly sincere. I don't think it's unlikely, that he is right now in another private chat server cursing how much of a "cucks" GDQ were for banning him.
 

JohnCarpenter1306

Alt-Account
Banned
Nov 18, 2018
77
Then don't release a statement after four hours, man. They aren't wrong for wanting to be absolutely certain, but rushing to release a grand statement (especially about two people with an existing reputation) was really, really stupid.

Look, they made a mistake in releasing a statement so early but if they didn't release a statement and waited, they'd have been questioned and criticized as to why they didn't release something earlier!
Either way, the final result is positive and they did the right thing. No need for that garbage anywhere, really!
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,970
I feel like people read GDQs second statement (the "we need more evidence, no action taken for now") entirely differently than I did. They literally ask for more reports and say that the Discord screenshots aren't conclusive enough to justify banning anyone yet. Why people think that was a "grand statement" absolving Goose and Grav of guilt is beyond me, and honestly seems like people are willfully going out of there way to see negligence instead of caution. Considering the source of the allegations, I think an ~8 hour turnaround time is pretty impressive, and honestly a lot better than I expected.

It wasn't a "grand statement absolving" Goose or Grav but it most definitely felt like a dismissal considering they had to issue further tweets to further explain themselves. That was the problem, it felt completely insincere to a lot of people who experience these situations.

That combined with them basically finding the the accusations thrown at Grav as inconclusive led to people seeing this as pure negligence, which it basically was. All of this garbage is out in the air, Goose is openly all of those things on his Twitter page and they couldn't verify the Discord because Goose went back to scrub all Discord evidence. You don't potentially hang around someone like Goose unless you're at best willing to tolerate hate speak or at worst actually alt-right.

The turnaround happened because literally the entire community was DMing Coolmatty web archive posts and links to The-Elite while calling him a huge spineless fuck. If the community wasn't so pissed off, there's a good chance that Grav would have stayed to play Doom 64 come AGDQ time because GDQ did fuck all further investigation. I say this because even I produced links to Grav scrubbing their politics thread.

A better example of how to deal with inconclusive accusations would be how Panda Global dealt with the Infiltration domestic abuse allegations. You issue a statement that these specific problems (not "discrimination" and "differing opinions") are really serious, have no place, you will do further investigation and questioning to determine their legitimacy because of their severity but will bench Grav in the meantime because of the severity of the accusations. You don't rush and go "hey Discord messages are inconclusive, nothing to be done unless we get more evidence" when you have very good reason to believe the legitimacy of the Discord statements.
 
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Claris

Member
Oct 29, 2017
146
This upcoming AGDQ will be the 9th GDQ I'll be participating in. I was directly mentioned in one of the pics:

DtHghdqW0AI7xu6.jpg:large


I found their initial response to be fairly abhorrent. They totally rushed an investigation in 6 hours to state they aren't doing anything, as shown by them backtracking a mere 3 hours later. The entire final sentence of their response was totally out of line, with the "differing opinion" nonsense. As a long time participant, I find it very difficult now to believe that they truly have my best interests in mind. I hope they come out with a thorough explanation and apology about this whole debacle soon.
 

enkaisu

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,414
Pittsburgh
Late comment but I just heard about this stuff.

Dude, seeing the way these people talk, the things they talk about, the wording and phrases they use. It's fucking wild, it's eye opening. I've never actually seen what a conversation is like between people like this and it's genuinely disturbing and saddening.
 

Bossking

Member
Nov 20, 2017
1,392
Edit: Person retracted their tweet citing not enough evidence. Sorry for the bump. Deleted my post to not cause any further damage.
 
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Claris

Member
Oct 29, 2017
146
So, pretty important update to this story: Matt Merkle, the director of operations for GDQ, is friends with known racist/transphobic white nationalist Goose and actively posts transphobic stuff under a throwaway Reddit account. That or someone is impersonating him and all they do is pretend to run GDQ and make snide comments about trans people which at this point seems unlikely.





DtLGLCCXoAAfAHV.jpg

It's some idiot impersonator, don't pay any attention to that.
 

danmaku

Member
Nov 5, 2017
3,232
Late comment but I just heard about this stuff.

Dude, seeing the way these people talk, the things they talk about, the wording and phrases they use. It's fucking wild, it's eye opening. I've never actually seen what a conversation is like between people like this and it's genuinely disturbing and saddening.

I'm used to see all kinds of crazy people on the internet, but it's frightening to see this type of nutjobs finding more and more acolytes. It's as if the Flat Earth Society was getting bigger every day. Total nonsense being accepted as plausible facts.
 

data

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,719
So, pretty important update to this story: Matt Merkle, the director of operations for GDQ, is friends with known racist/transphobic white nationalist Goose and actively posts transphobic stuff under a throwaway Reddit account. That or someone is impersonating him and all they do is pretend to run GDQ and make snide comments about trans people which at this point seems unlikely.





DtLGLCCXoAAfAHV.jpg

Why does it seem unlikely? It's not hard to create a username similar to another persons
 
Jul 18, 2018
5,855
It's times like thia when I wished that technology from Minority Report existed where we can find the location of all these extreme/lewd people so that someone like John Cena can choke slam them onto a table.

But for real, as internet loneliness/rejection gets more widespread. All those holding a grudge will find their voice among these assholes taking advantage. It's going to be scary when they actually start assembling in real life and start causing bodily harm.
 

Birdmandrew

Member
Nov 3, 2017
20
As someone that regularly enjoyed his speedrun videos on youtube, but doesn't follow social media or twitch closely, this came right out of left field.

I hope that's a genuine apology, but he needs to prove himself with actions now. I don't want to watch his content anymore knowing that he talks like that in private, espousing some pretty awful stuff.

It's a disappointment. He seemed like good people.