Smash Ultimate is out in the wild, hide ya kids for WoL SPOILERS [Datamining has started] (READ OP)

MaitreWakou · Nov 26, 2018

Twenty5Thousand said:
https://twitter.com/TetsuyaNomura_/status/1066843353520717825?s=20

So uh guys, I think Nintendo fucked up again with an oversight.

I don't get it. I guess the racist act to associate black people and thief is made by american racists ?
Honestly I don't think it's a cliche known in Japan... This racist cliche aint even used in France, which has its bunch of racist, so I don't think japanese people really has this kind of racist cliche toward black people.

Denryu · Nov 26, 2018

Geno said:
I think that's accidental, this villager alt didn't exist in it's current form until recently.

Yeah i think you may be right.

I think the localization team would've caught this if it was earlier on.

I hope it gets patched out quickly.

PlanetSmasher · Nov 26, 2018

Demon Lizardman said:
Guys, what if, since next year is Mother 3's 30's anniversary, they announce Porky as a DLC character alongside the release of Mother 3?

Ehhhh. Porky would be really hard to do well. His mech suit would be really huge and it doesn't really do much.

How about a Starman?

Birdie · Nov 26, 2018

There's so many Spirit Battles it seems I imagine they probably divided them up between the staff so I could see someone sneaking in some purposeful fuckery.

Maybe though the Villager used for the pre-battle picture looks like that, but the actual battle uses all the Villagers.

Kinsei · Nov 26, 2018

MaitreWakou said:
I guess the racist act to associate black people and thief is made by american racists ?

Yep. Black people being thugs and criminals is an incredibly common racist stereotype in the US and Canada.

Unknownlight · Nov 26, 2018

Twenty5Thousand said:
https://twitter.com/TetsuyaNomura_/status/1066843353520717825?s=20

So uh guys, I think Nintendo fucked up again with an oversight.

Yeah, meh. The character is a thief. Villager's entire gimmick is stealing other characters' stuff. The character is black-colored. The dark alt for Villager was used.

Perhaps it should be changed, but it's very blatantly not racist. It's not playing into stereotypes, it's just a complete coincidence.

Alexhex · Nov 26, 2018

Unknownlight said:
Yeah, meh. The character is a thief. Villager's entire gimmick is stealing other characters' stuff. The character is black-colored. The dark alt for Villager was used.

Perhaps it should be changed, but it's very blatantly not racist.

Things can be unintentionally racist

r_n · Nov 26, 2018

nintendo of america just throwing their hats down going "what ELSE did we miss" as the Fire Attack spirit looms ominously in the background

MsMuerta · Nov 26, 2018

Alexhex said:
Things can be unintentionally racist

I guess the replies are mostly to contest the tweet which pretty much is saying Sakurai is an intentional racist.

Lord Vatek · Nov 26, 2018

...Why didn't they just use Sheik or Greninja?

El Pescado · Nov 26, 2018

Lord Vatek said:
...Why didn't they just use Sheik or Greninja?

Because Villager can pocket items?

RROCKMAN · Nov 26, 2018

I really dont think Sakurai is racist though. I just think he's ignorant. This is also something that would have been caught if there was at least one black dev in a major position, but I imagine the team was primarily japanese.

r_n · Nov 26, 2018

Lord Vatek said:
...Why didn't they just use Sheik or Greninja?

because Tac literally pickpocket. He throws out his hands, grabs things and stores it.

Villager has the pocket move and the net grab, which kind of resembles the bag. They probably picked Villager over Isabelle because the Villagers in Smash as presented as mischievous weirdos.

NeonZ · Nov 26, 2018

Lord Vatek said:
...Why didn't they just use Sheik or Greninja?

Because the villager fits his proportions better and the point is the pick up ability standing-in for stealing. Like mentioned above, as late as E3 this villager color didn't have dark skin, so the colors fit better and there was no unintentional issue. The problem came when they decided to add darker skinned villagers and the purple one happened to be one of the ones chosen to get changed.

FSLink · Nov 26, 2018

r_n said:
credit where it's due, assuming it's not just scrapped stuff in general, they did a pretty good job of scrubbing Ultimate relative to Smash 4 and especially Brawl.
At best (& again assuming this is going to be implemented) we might have learned:
-homerun contest
-"Techniques"
-2 other modes (assuming 1 of the 3 is homerun contest, that leaves the 1 in Smash and the 1 in Games & More)
-Those 2 spirit categories (those are probably just straight up unused though and not indicative of anything)

so far as i know there's not been any verified left over characters, no cut emblems, stages, not DLC stuff beyond the 30 placeholders

MondoMega said:
I posted something on the last page that I think it worth discussing, so i'll repost it:
There is one mode in Games & More that I don't know anything about, called "Techniques". It could be a sub-mode for something else, i'm not really sure.

It's also interesting to note that within the list of modes, there are a few missing numbers in listing available:

There is one missing Smash mode (between Custom Smash and Smashdown; 6 and 8 respectively).

There are two missing Games & More modes (between Mii Fighters and Techniques; 8 and 11 respectively).

Techniques is in the help menu. It just shows videos and describes stuff ranging from how to recover to Game&Watch's bucket now reflects/absorbs.

Also reveals the official names for DI / SDI.

Neoxon · Nov 26, 2018

Twenty5Thousand said:
https://twitter.com/TetsuyaNomura_/status/1066843353520717825?s=20

So uh guys, I think Nintendo fucked up again with an oversight.

I do agree that it's not a good look, but one has to consider that said Villager alt didn't change his skin tone until recently. So yeah, this seems more like an unintentional fuck-up than anything else, one that should be changed to Isabelle so others won't get the wrong idea.

Unknownlight · Nov 26, 2018

Alexhex said:
Things can be unintentionally racist

The tweet literally calls Sakurai a racist. This kind of "crying wolf" hyperbole is why so many people don't take real issues as seriously as they should.

Dyle · Nov 26, 2018

El Pescado said:
Because Villager can pocket items?

The net too

Looks like a dumb, but very unfortunate oversight with insensitive overtones which could indeed be a mistake given the way Villager's colors were changed late in development. Hopefully it'll get patched in the day 1 patch to be Isabelle, since we know that the only crime Villager commits is murder, he's above petty theft

r_n · Nov 26, 2018

Dyle said:
The net too

Looks like a dumb, but very unfortunate oversight with insensitive overtones which could indeed be a mistake given the way Villager's colors were changed late in development. Hopefully it'll get patched in the day 1 patch to be Isabelle, since we know that the only crime Villager commits is murder, he's above petty theft

Unless after Game & Watch they did a full racist check on the game I doubt this will be changed day 1 since they probably didn't even notice or think to look for it.

This also assumes G&W is fixed in the Day 1 patch, anyway. I don't think it was stated it'd be day 1, just that it would be fixed in an upcoming patch for the game?

RailWays · Nov 26, 2018

Twenty5Thousand said:
https://twitter.com/TetsuyaNomura_/status/1066843353520717825?s=20

So uh guys, I think Nintendo fucked up again with an oversight.

Huh.
They really didn't look at this and think "let's change the alt?"

Neoxon · Nov 26, 2018

RailWays said:
Huh.
They really didn't look at this and think "let's change the alt?"

The Villager alt didn't change his skin color until recently, so this seems to be more of an unfortunate side-effect than anything else. Either way, it should be changed to Isabelle.

ParanormalFupa · Nov 26, 2018

Are we really supposed to pretend that a villager who is black is Tac? This is like me as a poor kid trying to fill out the full cast of characters from my favorite cartoon when I really only had the 1 real figure.

r_n · Nov 26, 2018

Personally I would have used the shifty eyed blue shirt villager or the green shirt girl, since it matches Tac's bag aesthetic a little better

Vesper · Nov 26, 2018

ParanormalFupa said:
Are we really supposed to pretend that a villager who is black is Tac?

I mean, are you supposed to pretend a small Incineroar is a red Pikmin?

Ryce · Nov 26, 2018

ParanormalFupa said:
Are we really supposed to pretend that a villager who is black is Tac?

No, we're supposed to pretend that Tac's "spirit" possessed Villager.

Anth0ny · Nov 26, 2018

FSLink said:
Techniques is in the help menu. It just shows videos and describes stuff ranging from how to recover to Game&Watch's bucket now reflects/absorbs.

Also reveals the official names for DI / SDI.

what's the official name for short hop fast fall l-cancelling

Phil Good · Nov 26, 2018

But why should it be changed from black villager to (for instance) white villager ? That would just be racist the other way around wouldn't it ?

If anything, nitpicking this into being racist is actually the racist thing here because why should you make the connection between the black color and theft in the first place ?

Regulus Tera · Nov 26, 2018

Should someone make a thread for that?

Jbone115 · Nov 26, 2018

For all the complaining ERA does about a lack of character diversity in gaming, people really get uptight about any non-white character being portrayed in a negetive light...

This is clearly just because of villagers net and matching color schemes, no reason to get overly offended imo.

Unknownlight · Nov 26, 2018

ParanormalFupa said:
Are we really supposed to pretend that a villager who is black is Tac? This is like me as a poor kid trying to fill out the full cast of characters from my favorite cartoon when I really only had the 1 real figure.

Yup. Sakurai described it exactly like that in the Direct. The fighters in Smash are all toys, as we've known since Smash 64, but no kid ever has all the toys. You have to use your imagination!

Twenty5Thousand · Nov 26, 2018

Phil Good said:
But why should it be changed from black villager to (for instance) white villager ? That would just be racist the other way around wouldn't it ?

If anything, nitpicking this into being racist is actually the racist thing here because why should you make the connection between the black color and theft in the first place ?

It's not racist to notice racial stereotypes, even if they're unintentional.

r_n · Nov 26, 2018

FSLink said:
Techniques is in the help menu. It just shows videos and describes stuff ranging from how to recover to Game&Watch's bucket now reflects/absorbs.

Also reveals the official names for DI / SDI.

oh interesting

also they've used those terms before, it just never stuck. Sort of like how no one calls ukemi, ukemi, they call it teching. Or how "tilts" were "strong attacks" which has gone full circle and are now just called tilts in game

Regulus Tera · Nov 26, 2018

I bumped the Game and Watch thread with what we just found.

FSLink · Nov 26, 2018

r_n said:
oh interesting

also they've used those terms before, it just never stuck. Sort of like how no one calls ukemi, ukemi, they call it teching. Or how "tilts" were "strong attacks" which has gone full circle and are now just called tilts in game

Yeah, but it's interesting to see them actually call them that in-game without people datamining.

Wamb0wneD · Nov 26, 2018

Anth0ny said:
what's the official name for short hop fast fall l-cancelling

Is L-cancelling even a thing anymore with this barely existing landing lag?

Regulus Tera said:
I bumped the Game and Watch thread with what we just found.

Why tho.

Kyzon Xin · Nov 26, 2018

Twenty5Thousand said:
https://twitter.com/TetsuyaNomura_/status/1066843353520717825?s=20

So uh guys, I think Nintendo fucked up again with an oversight.

He posted that as a joke. Either way I don't think this is malicious. That's the closest pallet to Tac, and villager literally steals things so it's the closest fit

Zarzolaon · Nov 26, 2018

r_n said:
Personally I would have used the shifty eyed blue shirt villager or the green shirt girl, since it matches Tac's bag aesthetic a little better

Or the one with a black and yellow shirt.

Phil Good · Nov 26, 2018

Twenty5Thousand said:
It's not racist to notice racial stereotypes, even if they're unintentional.

I fully agree with the principle, and I was fully supportive with the Game and Watch animation being patched out, but here it is just ridiculous. It means that certain specific skin tones should never be associated with a spirit that has a negative image to it and I believe that this is a kind of discrimination.

Demon Lizardman · Nov 26, 2018

What is Sylux becomes DLC because of his role in MP4? He has a really good chance of getting in actually.

Lord Vatek · Nov 26, 2018

Demon Lizardman said:
What is Sylux becomes DLC because of his role in MP4? He has a really good chance of getting in actually.

Please no.

stan423321 · Nov 26, 2018

r_n said:
oh interesting

also they've used those terms before, it just never stuck. Sort of like how no one calls ukemi, ukemi, they call it teching. Or how "tilts" were "strong attacks" which has gone full circle and are now just called tilts in game

Strong attacks was a particularly confusing name though in the first place. You have special moves, you have smash attacks, and then these ones are called strong? Were they trying to have that start with an S?

Unknownlight · Nov 26, 2018

stan423321 said:
Strong attacks was a particularly confusing name though in the first place. You have special moves, you have smash attacks, and then these ones are called strong? Were they trying to have that start with an S?

Jabs are called "standard attacks", so you may be on to something there.

NoName999 · Nov 26, 2018

Jbone115 said:
For all the complaining ERA does about a lack of character diversity in gaming, people really get uptight about any non-white character being portrayed in a negetive light...

This is clearly just because of villagers net and matching color schemes, no reason to get overly offended imo.

"The blacks should be grateful that a dark skinned alt of a character is stealing stuff." ~ says year old account with not even 100 posts

r_n · Nov 26, 2018

stan423321 said:
Strong attacks was a particularly confusing name though in the first place. You have special moves, you have smash attacks, and then these ones are called strong? Were they trying to have that start with an S?

in fairness i never really associated "tilt" with, uh, tilting. Like I get it but to me I think more of a hold attack. or maybe a tap?

MondoMega · Nov 26, 2018

FSLink said:
Techniques is in the help menu. It just shows videos and describes stuff ranging from how to recover to Game&Watch's bucket now reflects/absorbs.

Huh, weird that it's listed as a Game's & More thing though. Guess this is just something unused.

Kirbivore · Nov 26, 2018

NoName999 said:
"The blacks should be grateful that a dark skinned alt of a character is stealing stuff." ~ says year old account with not even 100 posts

And no avatar

FSLink · Nov 26, 2018

MondoMega said:
Huh, weird that it's listed as a Game's & More thing though. Guess this is just something unused.

Yeah, maybe it was originally on that menu or something.

ned_ballad · Nov 26, 2018

Demon Lizardman said:
What is Sylux becomes DLC because of his role in MP4? He has a really good chance of getting in actually.

He lacks a spirit, which I found interesting

RROCKMAN · Nov 26, 2018

Jbone115 said:
For all the complaining ERA does about a lack of character diversity in gaming, people really get uptight about any non-white character being portrayed in a negetive light...

This is clearly just because of villagers net and matching color schemes, no reason to get overly offended imo.

You can't even spell negative correctly.

Have fun with the b-a-n

GingerbreadMan · Nov 26, 2018

Do we have a screenshot of character selection screen with characters ordered per series and echoes on?

Smash Ultimate is out in the wild, hide ya kids for WoL SPOILERS [Datamining has started] (READ OP)

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