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Jimquisition: The GAAAmbling Problem (Ubisoft/Lootboxes/MTX)

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682


Ubisoft, by way of a PR rep, has defended loot boxes after people found them distasteful in Trials Rising. They hammered through both usual and unusual excuses, and did so in a way that truly offended my senses. AAA publishers are not just riding this gravy train into oblivion, they're actively lying and insulting our intelligence to justify it. And as problem gambling is on the rise, the game industry needs to start admitting fault... or fault will find them.
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Again he is right about this, microtransactions, particularly those that use virtual currency and/or lootboxes are predatory, manipulative, and exploitative.

There is a better way to deal with inflated budgets than these funny money stores. They could still sell this junk if they put it on the platform store for a set amount of real money, but that doesn't pull in as much money from manipulation as virtual currency stores do. There really shouldn't be microtransactions at all in full priced retail titles, but if they must continue with their inflated budgets they should at least be more ethical about it and stop with the manipulative virtual currency and lootboxes.


Also, the "GAMERSRISEUP" meme is just a way to shitpost and derail threads to delegitimize consumer advocacy and downplay corporate malfeasance.
 
Nassudan

Nassudan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,349
Pass legislation that taxes lootboxes the same way a slot machine's earnings would. Lootboxes would disappear tomorrow.
 
Silky

Silky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,522
Georgia
How do content creators like Jim plan to get these messages out of it's enthusiast gaming audience sphere and into the eyes of the general, everyday consumer that buys like ~10 games a year. Is that possible?

Surely there's a greater venue than just YouTube to communicate gaming's anti-consumerism. Also lol at the last post you wrote
 
Fat4all

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
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Oct 25, 2017
92,906
here
triple AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAy
 
danowat

danowat

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,783
SG-17 said:



Again he is right about this, microtransactions, particularly those that use virtual currency and/or lootboxes are predatory, manipulative, and exploitative.
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I find it amazing that anyone can argue for these kinds of things, and that's coming from someone who enjoys these hooks.

Silky said:
How do content creators like Jim plan to get these messages out of it's enthusiast gaming audience sphere and into the eyes of the general, everyday consumer that buys like ~10 games a year. Is that possible?
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It doesn't matter, mainstream media are starting to latch on to it now.
 
bitSS

bitSS

Self-requested ban
Banned
Nov 9, 2017
1,319
Portugal
I love Jim, and I agree with him on so many topics, but, as I posted back when the Trials Rising beta was active, the lootboxes in Trials Rising ARE NOT PAID. Can they be considered a shitty progression mechanism? Sure thing. Will Ubisoft add the option to pay for these lootboxes some weeks after release, completely invalidating my point of them not being paid? Could happen.

As of right now, though, there's no evidence towards that, it's just an assumption. Let's wait and see.
 
Scuffed

Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,896
Lootboxes are gambling. They are terrible for games and not necessary. Fortnite is the biggest game in the world and doesn't have them.
 
modiz

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,845
Sadly i feel like lootboxes will never be gone because a lot of people buy them, i never will support this. But if there is one thing that MUST be done is every game that has some element of randomization related to real world currency should automatically have the age rating of 18/M. Gambling elements should not be in games aimed at kids, make fifa, 2k and whatever all m for mature games or give up the lootbox/cardpacks elements.
 
Silky

Silky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,522
Georgia
Magwik said:
People can disagree with you without being corporate apologists.
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I was going to say that, but the OP has the narrative set that it's either the gamer way or the highway apparently.

danowat said:
Well, the BBC mentioned it the other day, doesn't get much more mainstream than that I guess.
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Gonna need more than just the BBC. Really wish people like Jim would get their info out to their local governments, even as a starting point. Really strange that Hawaii is the ONLY US state that had tried to combat this.
 
danowat

danowat

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,783
modiz said:
Sadly i feel like lootboxes will never be gone because a lot of people buy them, i never will support this. But if there is one thing that MUST be done is every game that has some element of randomization related to real world currency should automatically have the age rating of 18/M. Gambling elements should not be in games aimed at kids, make fifa, 2k and whatever all m for mature games or give up the lootbox/cardpacks elements.
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I personally think the very least they could do is be open and transparent about the chances of the items in these boxes.
 
Bunkles

Bunkles

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
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Oct 26, 2017
5,663
Man I feel like I'm lucky with the AAA games I've been playing. God of War, Spider-Man and RDR2 seem to have minimal amounts of this shit. <3
 
Silky

Silky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,522
Georgia
modiz said:
Sadly i feel like lootboxes will never be gone because a lot of people buy them, i never will support this. But if there is one thing that MUST be done is every game that has some element of randomization related to real world currency should automatically have the age rating of 18/M. Gambling elements should not be in games aimed at kids, make fifa, 2k and whatever all m for mature games or give up the lootbox/cardpacks elements.
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The rating change would literally not fix a thing.

Interfectum said:
Man I feel like I'm lucky with the AAA games I've been playing. God of War, Spider-Man and RDR2 seem to have minimal amounts of this shit. <3
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lol RDR2 will have a LOT
 
Silky

Silky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,522
Georgia
Lashley said:
He really doesn't.
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Gotta be a reason OP put that weirdo disclaimer at the end but that's a discussion for another thread, I'll respect their wishes and not bring it up any further than this post

--

You could argue Fortnite's daily rotating store is rather predatory towards young children who see the cosmetic approach as a collectible. Sure the Battlepass is nice but if I were that aggressive towards oppressive monetization techniques then, well, Fortnite's is pretty bad
 
Lashley

Lashley

<<Tag Here>>
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Oct 25, 2017
60,011
sibarraz said:
I mean he really does, the thread started great by complaining against a meme that is used mostly to trash on mysoginists and racists rather than those who complain against lootboxes
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No, it's a bored and tired fucking meme that people use to shit posts in threads like these. It's as tired as "yikes".
 
AgainstTheCurrent

AgainstTheCurrent

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,481
United Kingdom
Jim continues to be 110% correct about how shitty all these practices are and I wish they'd all fuck off.

But as someone who consumes his content, or used to a lot more, I wish he'd focus on something else. There's only so many ways to say the same thing. He's done it to death now.
 
Norwegian_Imposter

Norwegian_Imposter

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Oct 27, 2017
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I have no problem with cosmetic dlc and expansions but lootboxes can fuck off really (Siege I have zero issue with even though that technically has lootboxes)
 
Spehornoob

Spehornoob

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Nov 15, 2017
8,946
Loot boxes are predatory and, if the industry lacks the control to not put real money gambling mechanics into their games, then they should be regulated.

Regular Microtransactions aren't unethical in the same way, though I do have concerns about how they may affect a given game's design.
 
Mobyduck

Mobyduck

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Oct 27, 2017
2,100
Brazil
Also, this is just the YongYea thread, but with a different name. Discussion will go the same direction, since the subject is exactly the same. Might as well just merge threads.
 
OP
OP

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User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
11,682
Scuffed said:
Fortnite is the biggest game in the world and doesn't have them.
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Lashley said:
Fortnite is an example of micro-transactions done right, imho.
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They still use a virtual currency store. If they put these skins on the platform store for a set amount of real money it would be better. Virtual currency obfuscates the actual cost of what you are spending and by having odd values manipulates you to spend more than you really want.

Maybe it's not the case for most of us here due to being much more tuned in to how all of this works, but the average gamer won't have the benefits we do.
 

Absolute

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,090
sibarraz said:
I mean he really does, the thread started great by complaining against a meme that is used mostly to trash on mysoginists and racists rather than those who complain against lootboxes
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That meme has been co-opted to be used to dismiss consumer concerns. I've seen it many times on this forum.
 
PCPace

PCPace

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Oct 30, 2017
1,841
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I agree with Jim completely on this but am afraid these videos become a bit repetitive. But I don't blame him, it's a terrible industry problem and needs to be discussed repeatedly.

I want to add I love the Sterling persona, but as a character he's very inaccessible. My wife hates the Sterling character, asks me not to watch his videos with her in the room because he grates on her nerves with his acerbic carnival barker personality. But I listened to his podcast in the car with her and her response was "Oh he's actually nice to listen to when he's not doing the exaggerated character bits".

I somewhat agree, I like the character personally but I feel the ideas he puts form deserve a wider audience and more accessibility. I don't know how he could deliver that though because his character is what draws his current views. I feel like Jim deserves to be mainstream but it's an extraordinary difficult transition. The things he says are important for the industry to listen to.
 
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GameShrink

GameShrink

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,680
So, what do people actually think publishers will replace lootboxes with once they're regulated? As Jim points out, there's no way that shareholders are going to want to return to the era of (still massive) pre-lootbox profits.
 
oni-link

oni-link

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Oct 25, 2017
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God don't you know how BLESSED we are, these corporations are bending over backwards to give us games for $60 out of the kindness of their hearts

Investors suggested raising the base price of $60 and the shareholders, in one voice, rose up and said NO, our customers deserve better, never shall the base price rise above $60 dollars (other than when they do with multiple editions that is)

Instead, to counter balance this great sacrifice, they will offer us a choice, just a simple choice, to tip the publisher, for their kindness, and they'll give the player the choice to give them a little extra

They won't even factor this into the game design, they'll just tack the MXT stuff on at the end of production

And people like Jim, have the gall to call these people out? I think we need to rise up to this nonsense at once. Petition the Mods to end these kind of threads and stop persecuting corporations

#downwiththissortofthing
 
Danzflor

Danzflor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,710
SG-17 said:
They still use a virtual currency store. If they put these skins on the platform store for a set amount of real money it would be better. Virtual currency obfuscates the actual cost of what you are spending and by having odd values manipulates you to spend more than you really want.

Maybe it's not the case for most of us here due to being much more tuned in to how all of this works, but the average gamer won't have the benefits we do.
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I agree that the whole currency stuff is fishy. As far as I know, companies do it to make the purchases more "enticing", since people would be more willing to spend those fake coins with no remorse instead of gasping at realizing how much money they're actually spending on skins, which is a no-no in marketing and consumer approach. So yeah, it still manipulating.
 
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