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Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
For what it's worth, the creator of Save the Cat was critical of the live action Tomb Raider films precisely because they failed to make Lara "likeable". I agree that games as a medium need more unlikeable characters, but they're a hard sell. Save the Cat exists because it plays unto some very common psychology and it's relevant to games because a lot of gamers want to the hero and anything that disrupts that upsets them.
Again I don't mind to play as Villan but the writer of shadow of tomb raider has made some weird chocies .sometimes the writer tries to show her as hero and sometimes as psychopath.this is what's bothering me .I m either a Villan or a hero.lol

What does this scene achieve : After she kills the puma , why do we have to see the other puma sad and in distress by going and grabbing the dead body of other puma and leaving ? Why does she pick up a bug and calls it cute Eli and drops in on the ground and smashes it under her feet?lool Why do we have to see these scenes? It's like the writer is forcing us to see she is a psychopath
 

DocSeuss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,784
For what it's worth, the creator of Save the Cat was critical of the live action Tomb Raider films precisely because they failed to make Lara "likeable". I agree that games as a medium need more unlikeable characters, but they're a hard sell. Save the Cat exists because it plays unto some very common psychology and it's relevant to games because a lot of gamers want to the hero and anything that disrupts that upsets them.

Save the Cat isn't a real thing, it's a shitty, failed screenwriter's attempt at arguing that there's a "formula" to good storytelling. There isn't. He's wrong. His book is shit. He wrote "Stop! Or My Mom Will Shoot!" And you're replying to a post from September.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,802
Again I don't mind to play as Villan but the writer of shadow of tomb raider has made some weird chocies .sometimes the writer tries to show her as hero and sometimes as psychopath.this is what's bothering me .I m either a Villan or a hero.lol

What does this scene achieve : After she kills the puma , why do we have to see the other puma sad and in distress by going and grabbing the dead body of other puma and leaving ? Why does she pick up a bug and calls it cute Eli and drops in on the ground and smashes it under her feet?lool Why do we have to see these scenes? It's like the writer is forcing us to see she is a psychopath

Are you playing some alternate version of the game? She picks out the parasite from under Jonah's skin, and they joke about calling it Eli because it's the name of Jonah's brother who he found annoying. Then she kills it. Because... it's a dangerous parasite.
She kills the jaguar in self defense also. There is nothing weird about that... Lara Croft has killed lots of exotic animals in self defense since forever.

The beginning of the game is probably the best written part of the game, it's a shame it somewhat falls apart as it goes on. I wish they commited to the "no fucks given" Lara throughout the whole game.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
He wrote "Stop! Or My Mom Will Shoot!"
One of my pet favorite comedy films, with one the most touching portrayals of a tough guy police detective who underneath all his bluster and scorn loves his mother. It's a simple theme but an effective one executed in a way I find impossible to dislike. It's not Norbit-tier, (few comedies reach those heights) but it is somewhere around Daddy Day Care-slash-Kangaroo Jack on the scale of movies that make me laugh and feel warm inside.
Save the Cat isn't a real thing, it's a shitty, failed screenwriter's attempt at arguing that there's a "formula" to good storytelling. There isn't. He's wrong.
There may not be a strict formula for good storytelling, but there is a formula for crowd-pleasing storytelling that Save the Cat factors into. It's very common in Pixar movies, for example. Woody rushing to save Wheezy at the Yard Sale at great risk to himself. Mr Incredible saving the cat from the tree (trope joke) and then helping the old lady get her insurance payout she's owed. Good and crowd pleasing are distinct concepts, but while Save the Cat is cheap, it does work and it's commonly used for this reason.
 

chrisypoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,457
If new Lara is a bad character, (she's not), then what does that say about the nothing T n A piece of macho 90's male gaze appealing fluff that was classic Lara? She qualifies as a character about as a much as an extra from a Kid Rock video does....or hell even Kid Rock himself.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
If new Lara is a bad character, (she's not), then what does that say about the nothing T n A piece of macho 90's male gaze appealing fluff that was classic Lara?
Lara was never intended to be an excessively sexualized character. Her designer left Eidos in protest of the way she was being portrayed in advertising, calling it a "violation". Aside from advertising, the games themselves were largely tame.
She qualifies as a character about as a much as an extra from a Kid Rock video does....or hell even Kid Rock himself.
I disagree. Lara had a clearly defined personality, goals, and so on. The Legend/Anniversary/Underworld trilogy struck a fairly decent balance. TR2013 Lara is a completely different character. She has no character traits in common with Underworld Lara in particular. Rewriting Lara into a completely different character paid off financially, but it's completely untrue that earlier versions of Lara that were more faithful to the original concept were somehow not real characters.
 

Sabrina Rei

Member
Oct 30, 2017
68
Lara comes to life a bit when she describes the artifacts you find through out. There's sparks of enthusiasm for her profession and personality. I actually liked her in 2013, hated how they saddled her with daddy issues in Rise and used native plights to try to humanize her in both Rise and Shadow. Still, I think shadow does a decent job of taking her from prey to predator in a pretty striking way and then walks her back to humanity.
 

Anaron

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,645
If new Lara is a bad character, (she's not), then what does that say about the nothing T n A piece of macho 90's male gaze appealing fluff that was classic Lara? She qualifies as a character about as a much as an extra from a Kid Rock video does....or hell even Kid Rock himself.
Lol, she had more personality in one fmv from the original than anything from these new games.

Just because advertising is garbage doesnt mean the product is.
 

DocSeuss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,784
One of my pet favorite comedy films, with one the most touching portrayals of a tough guy police detective who underneath all his bluster and scorn loves his mother. It's a simple theme but an effective one executed in a way I find impossible to dislike. It's not Norbit-tier, (few comedies reach those heights) but it is somewhere around Daddy Day Care-slash-Kangaroo Jack on the scale of movies that make me laugh and feel warm inside.

There may not be a strict formula for good storytelling, but there is a formula for crowd-pleasing storytelling that Save the Cat factors into. It's very common in Pixar movies, for example. Woody rushing to save Wheezy at the Yard Sale at great risk to himself. Mr Incredible saving the cat from the tree (trope joke) and then helping the old lady get her insurance payout she's owed. Good and crowd pleasing are distinct concepts, but while Save the Cat is cheap, it does work and it's commonly used for this reason.

That's not save the cat, it's basic selflessness.
 

Zem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,971
United Kingdom
Someone said it in another thread, but Chloe from Uncharted is a better Lara Croft character than the actual Lara Croft.

This new Lara Croft is a terrible character.
 
Aug 26, 2018
1,793
Square Enix screwed themselves with the Franchise. They REALLY had something going with the TR Reboot in 2013, then they go and do an exclusive deal with MS which killed the momentum even though the game was still very good.

Then, they look at the Avengers money and send Crystal Dynamics to ditch TR and do the Avengers game and give it to Eidos which is a AA studio in my opinion.

We can only look at cases like Mass effect being done by Bioware's B team and look what happened. Not saying SoTR was not good, I enjoyed it myself but the game just didn't have the momentum, didn't bring anything impressive to the table other than a small refinement and an underwhelming campaign ( except the underwater levels).

They release it in the ever crowded September a week after Spider Man and the fall titles.

They need to expand Crystal Dynamics into 2 teams and keep TR with them. Build a new engine for next gen and give a 4-5 year development cycle to build a really great game which has depth in terms of story telling, exploration, the world etc.
 

bane833

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,530
The hyperbole surrounding the Tomb Raider games is becoming more and more laughable. Are the story or the characters of these games particularly good? No, of course not. But we´re still talking about video games, i´ve seen worse, much worse.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
That's not save the cat, it's basic selflessness.
It's a cynically inserted act of selflessness within the first half hour or relevant part of the story arc that contextualizes the character as likeable. The difference between an arrogant dick and a charming rogue is often as subtle as saving a metaphorical cat. There's a reason Franklin and Michael save Jimmy as he's dangling like a cat from a tree fairly early in GTA V. It establishes Michael as a man that although he'll yell about it, cares more about his son than his material possessions. It establishes Franklin as something more than a cheap thug for hire. He risks his own life to save the son of a man who held a gun to his head and forced him to lose his job. From that moment on, Franklin and Michael, for all their flaws, are firmly established as likeable people.
Then, they look at the Avengers money and send Crystal Dynamics to ditch TR and do the Avengers game and give it to Eidos which is a AA studio in my opinion.
How do you rationalize Eidos Montreal as an "AA" studio? This is the studio behind Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Deus Ex: Mankind Divided we're talking about. Those games may not be as good as the original Deus Ex (what is?) but I'd argue they're several cuts above the entire Tomb Raider series. I'm not quite seeing how Crystal Dynamics are the studio with more prestige here. Crystal Dynamics only got their hooks into the series for so long by screwing over Core, the original developer. Their strength as a developer was great writing back in the Legacy of Kain days. (Which incidentally was a series they got their hooks into by screwing over Silicon Knights. It's almost a pattern at this point.) Those writers are long gone. The Legend/Anniversary/Underworld trilogy was pretty good, granted. But I'm not really seeing how Crystal Dynamics are some incredible developer compared to the developer that produced two of the best immersive sims of the past decade.

Edit: interesting fact. The original director of Tomb Raider: Legend was Doug Church of System Shock, Deus Ex, and Thief game. He left in 2005 and someone else took over. It's kinda interesting how Crystal Dynamics, after screwing over Core in a crass and heartless way, decided to give Tomb Raider to an outside director instead of their own Amy Hennig who wanted to work on the project, and this resulted in Amy leaving to go work for a little company called Naughty Dog to make Uncharted, which ultimately has proven to be a far more successful series than Crystal Dynamic's version of Tomb Raider.
 
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Moebius

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,398
The new Lara is terribly boring and I hope we get the real Lara back. Classic Lara was strong, confident and explosive. She was a superhero. Give me a God of War over the top action game with classic Lara please.

with dinosaurs too
 

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,385
If new Lara is a bad character, (she's not), then what does that say about the nothing T n A piece of macho 90's male gaze appealing fluff that was classic Lara? She qualifies as a character about as a much as an extra from a Kid Rock video does....or hell even Kid Rock himself.

This reads like you never played the old games at all.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
Mr Biffo evidently never met the wonderful human being from Killzone that is Rico Valasquez.

4-KZ2_9-01.jpg


Possibly the single worst human being in fiction, despite terrible AI and actively sabotaging the games story, he commits an non-stop tirretes laden stream of war crimes, canonical friendly fire, summary executions and eventually mass terracide, slaughtering a billion innocent civilians. All out of pure racism towards a planet his own army is illegally invading and keeping under illegal occupation.
 

Mechaplum

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,834
JP
Edit: interesting fact. The original director of Tomb Raider: Legend was Doug Church of System Shock, Deus Ex, and Thief game. He left in 2005 and someone else took over. It's kinda interesting how Crystal Dynamics, after screwing over Core in a crass and heartless way, decided to give Tomb Raider to an outside director instead of their own Amy Hennig who wanted to work on the project, and this resulted in Amy leaving to go work for a little company called Naughty Dog to make Uncharted, which ultimately has proven to be a far more successful series than Crystal Dynamic's version of Tomb Raider.

Damn this makes a lot of sense how the two franchises managed to diverge.
 

semiconscious

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
2,140
In the end I really can't say that I like what they did with Lara in these new trilogy compared to the previous versions. I miss clever and witty Lara that is full of confidence. Older Lara did things because she enjoyed doing them and because she was rebellious. New Lara is simply confusing, I don't know what she wants, and I have feeling that devs didn't know either. I am still enjoying playing these games (especially Shadow) because there are not many of them out there, but I really hope that if Square Enix decides to continue making them (and not put IP on ice like Deus Ex) they do something to at least improve character writing...

this! lara's even more selfish/condescending in shadow than she was in the previous 2 outings. hell, she actually says 'what a remarkable story! thanks for sharing' at one point! absolutely a case of the developers doubling down on 'you will want to protect her', with no allowance for those of us who never really did :) ...

If new Lara is a bad character, (she's not), then what does that say about the nothing T n A piece of macho 90's male gaze appealing fluff that was classic Lara? She qualifies as a character about as a much as an extra from a Kid Rock video does....or hell even Kid Rock himself.

'nothing T n A piece of macho 90's male gaze appealing fluff', eh? suggest you actually play the original trilogy, & then get back to us :) ...

edit: wow! talk about priceless. this quote from jill murray, the writer of shadow:

"She's really dealing with overcoming her own mistakes. I don't know if you've ever screwed anything up, but that is a really terrible feeling. It can be really hard once you've made a mistake, especially one as large as setting off the apocalypse, to figure out how to move forward, how to make things better, and will you actually make things worse as you continue charging ahead?"...

amazing. smh :) ...
 
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Harlequin

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,614
I may have replied in here before seeing how old and long this thread is but I'll just leave my two cents (again?).

I agree that reboot Lara is a badly written, inconsistent, boring character. I disagree that her not being "likeable" enough is the underlying issue, though. Not all protagonists need to be super likeable, not all protagonists need to be heroes or morally correct goody-two-shoes and the original Lara Croft was never really that, anyway. She was always at least a little selfish, she was always morally ambiguous and when she did heroic things, it tended to be more a side effect of her working towards her own selfish goals. Of course, she wasn't outright evil or anything, she was simply somewhere in the nebulous grey area in between. Was she likeable to a certain degree? Yes. Was she the sort of person you'd want to be friends with? No (and the feeling was probably mutual). Some of the best, most enjoyable characters in the history of narrative media are not likeable (or only likeable* with a big fat asterisk stuck onto it).

However, I do believe that it's more difficult to create an unlikeable protagonist whom people will also still enjoy and that's probably one of the pitfalls Crystal has been falling into over and over again since taking over the franchise. They just don't know how to pull off her moral ambiguity properly and keep going back and forth between unintentionally cheesy Hollywood action hero and amoral badass with no real sense of nuance or subtlety.
 

Deleted member 17388

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,994
If new Lara is a bad character, (she's not), then what does that say about the nothing T n A piece of macho 90's male gaze appealing fluff that was classic Lara? She qualifies as a character about as a much as an extra from a Kid Rock video does....or hell even Kid Rock himself.

She was barely a character, yes.
But still she had relatable traits and she was, well, a fun videogame character to play as. In the same vein Mario or Link are.

They need to expand Crystal Dynamics into 2 teams and keep TR with them.
After 15 years with the franchise, and never making it take off again in a big way.
Honestly, I hope Square-Enix sees beyond Crystal Dynamics...

The hyperbole surrounding the Tomb Raider games is becoming more and more laughable. Are the story or the characters of these games particularly good? No, of course not. But we´re still talking about video games, i´ve seen worse, much worse.
Yeah, and probably we'll see much worse... and probably some of these future examples will come from Tomb Raider again :v
That's the backbone of the discussion, after more than 15 years of turning the plot an important part of the TR games, we see mediocre storytelling game after game; but worse of all now Lara is fairly detestable in the not-enjoyable way.

For one of the highest-grossing media franchises (Primarily for what the brand was in the 90's) it's not that much about hyperbole, maaaaybe a little bit of concern-trolling, but most of it is simple disappointment and disbelief at the terrible management.
 

Popetita

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,957
TX|PR
I love Jonah as a character. A compass for Lara a d well the only fat brown video gane character I can identify with and he has a good moral compass.

I loved the trilogy and liked Shadow above them all but I have to agree to an extent. She was a selfish dick and she tried ti improve but the video gamey aspects of it added to her dickishness.

If they continue the series I hope they do a time jump and "remake" the originals.
 

chrisypoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,457
I love Jonah as a character. A compass for Lara a d well the only fat brown video gane character I can identify with and he has a good moral compass.

I loved the trilogy and liked Shadow above them all but I have to agree to an extent. She was a selfish dick and she tried ti improve but the video gamey aspects of it added to her dickishness.

If they continue the series I hope they do a time jump and "remake" the originals.
Fat? No, ....no he definitely isn't fat. Look at some pics of powerlifters, then look at Jonah. He's not fat, he's a very healthy, realistic depiction of what someone looks like when they gain quite a lot of strength, and in my opinion his design, (designs?), is the best thing about the new Tomb Raider games, so I'll definitely agree with you there that he's the best part of the games, but in no way is he fat.
 

Heid

Member
Jan 7, 2018
1,808
Give her the Kratos treatment and make her a grey old lady with a lot of a fight still in her. Contextualize all the bad writing into ancient history/consequences for character development. We need more bad ass old ladies.

Also send her back in time to fight dinosaurs.
 

Telpis

Banned
Jan 17, 2018
1,319
I have played the first two tomb raider games of the reboot series I'm buying the 3rd one at Christmas is it really that bad of a game can someone explain with spoiling the game for me

It the story the characters the gameplay what?
 

Popetita

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,957
TX|PR
Fat? No, ....no he definitely isn't fat. Look at some pics of powerlifters, then look at Jonah. He's not fat, he's a very healthy, realistic depiction of what someone looks like when they gain quite a lot of strength, and in my opinion his design, (designs?), is the best thing about the new Tomb Raider games, so I'll definitely agree with you there that he's the best part of the games, but in no way is he fat.
He is a heavy set guy and nowhere does it say he is a powerlifter.

So why take this one away from me? Literally the only guy in 25 years of video gamea I feel like represents me.
 

chrisypoo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,457
He is a heavy set guy and nowhere does it say he is a powerlifter.

So why take this one away from me? Literally the only guy in 25 years of video gamea I feel like represents me.
Not trying to take anything from ya brethren, I get it, it's just that he's not fat. If you want him to represent you, then cool, but look at his chest, shoulders, back, and arms man.....dude is heavy sure, but he's stacked with muscle. Here's the silver lining my man, if you look like that, then you're probably stacked too brethren! I think Johah's a great looking dude, so you must be too. See? We all win.
 

Rogue Blue

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,280
I've played TR2013 and Rise, but haven't played Shadow and while there are alot of things I enjoy about them, Lara Croft is definitely not one of them.

In these new games she just seems so...generic I think is the word? I know this is gonna sound weird but she's just too serious. These games have such a grimdark oppressive tone and there's hardly any levity at all.

It just brings the overall games down a notch.

I actually really loved her character in the previous trilogy Crystal Dynamics did: the TR Legend one. She was actually really fun and her banter with her support team made it even more enjoyable.

Can't we get something like that back? Something that brings the fun and adventure back to Tomb Raider?

As far as I'm concerned, it's time for another reboot.
 

BoxManLocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
France
The hyperbole surrounding the Tomb Raider games is becoming more and more laughable. Are the story or the characters of these games particularly good? No, of course not. But we´re still talking about video games, i´ve seen worse, much worse.

I can't think of a single game that tries so hard to delve into its main character's psyche and motivations while failing so miserably. Which is why there's actually so much to talk about when it comes to new Lara.

Are there shittier characters in other games ? Sure, if your metric is empty caricatures/stereotypes. The usual crap videogame characters, so to speak. Lara though is definitely the worst one that's developed.
 

DocSeuss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,784
It's a cynically inserted act of selflessness within the first half hour or relevant part of the story arc that contextualizes the character as likeable. The difference between an arrogant dick and a charming rogue is often as subtle as saving a metaphorical cat. There's a reason Franklin and Michael save Jimmy as he's dangling like a cat from a tree fairly early in GTA V. It establishes Michael as a man that although he'll yell about it, cares more about his son than his material possessions. It establishes Franklin as something more than a cheap thug for hire. He risks his own life to save the son of a man who held a gun to his head and forced him to lose his job. From that moment on, Franklin and Michael, for all their flaws, are firmly established as likeable people

I'm aware of how it works. But that's not why they're established as likable characters. The game spends a ~lot~ more time ensuring we understand why they're likable people. The script spends a lot of time helping us understand their wants and needs, puts them in predicament after predicament where they have to do things we would find admirable. It spends a ~lot~ of time ensuring we get their camaraderie.

Saving Jimmy is literally nothing in the game's plot and it doesn't do what you say.

This is how Save the Cat works. It promises a formula, pretends that this shit is easy to understand, but it's like a horoscope. You find one moment that seems to do the thing it says it's doing, and you go "ah, see, it works," but there's a world of difference between a game where a character does one likable thing and GTAV, which spends literally ~hours~ trying to make us empathize with its characters and their plight. Rockstar also loves to make us hate the villains more than the shitty people the protagonists are, so it gets us on their side by making bad shit happen to them that we wouldn't want to happen to us.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,802
I have played the first two tomb raider games of the reboot series I'm buying the 3rd one at Christmas is it really that bad of a game can someone explain with spoiling the game for me

It the story the characters the gameplay what?

No. Most people that have a problem with the reboot series have a problem with the first 2 games too.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
I'm aware of how it works. But that's not why they're established as likable characters. The game spends a ~lot~ more time ensuring we understand why they're likable people. The script spends a lot of time helping us understand their wants and needs, puts them in predicament after predicament where they have to do things we would find admirable. It spends a ~lot~ of time ensuring we get their camaraderie.

Saving Jimmy is literally nothing in the game's plot and it doesn't do what you say.

This is how Save the Cat works. It promises a formula, pretends that this shit is easy to understand, but it's like a horoscope. You find one moment that seems to do the thing it says it's doing, and you go "ah, see, it works," but there's a world of difference between a game where a character does one likable thing and GTAV, which spends literally ~hours~ trying to make us empathize with its characters and their plight. Rockstar also loves to make us hate the villains more than the shitty people the protagonists are, so it gets us on their side by making bad shit happen to them that we wouldn't want to happen to us.
If you fail to have a "save the cat" moment early in the game, it doesn't matter how many hours you spend trying to make the character likeable. It won't work. You will never win audiences back. Games and films that fail to do this suffer, so screenwriters insert these moments of small heroism, selflessness, and so on to impress upon the audience that even if this character later murders a puppy, the initial impression sticks. The director of the original Kane & Lynch admitted this. That although K&L have moments of humanity and selflessness, these moments were too late in the game. They had to appear early in the game if they were going to have any effect. (Of course K&L2 abandoned all efforts to make the pair likeable in favor of pure chaos and hate, which was quite effective in its own way but the game was NOT appreciated for its dedication to art and storytelling.)

You might not like Save the Cat, and you're not alone in that, but it is a screenwriting trick that is widely adopted across film and games. There's a reason these cynical "Has a heart of gold" moments are calculatedly inserted into stories fairly early in the arc. Some might call that plain good storytelling. But it appears so often because Blake Snyder was so liked in the Hollywood screenwriting community and his book was so popular. Also because games want to be movies.

Saving Jimmy is the first moment in GTA V when the characters are extremely temporarily portrayed as genuine heroes. Before this, Franklin was stealing cars. Before this, Michael was whining to his therapist. A washed up nostalgia-driven man with no direction. Before these characters launch into a life of crime, we are given a brief glimpse of them at their best. Risking life and limb for a dumb kid. It's not important to the plot. It's important to character impressions.

Trevor doesn't have a Save the Cat moment, in part because he's introduced midway through the game. Instead, he is forcibly given a trait to gloss over some of his horrific aspects. His almost obsessive respect for women. We haven't had control of Trevor for too long before we discover that he really, really, really respects women. And one could handwave that as a joke, but it's more than that. It's a single character trait inserted an absolutely awful character that makes them charming.
 

Miao

Member
Oct 30, 2017
88
I literally just finished ROTR last night.. Such a let down in the character development and storyline. The reboot tomb raider is fresh and I felt it introduced lara in a very good way. ROTR had very poor writing and pacing.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,812
Not while there are still characters who exist solely to be objectified for the pleasure of make gamers.
 

Necronomicon

Banned
Dec 11, 2017
374
In the first game of the reboot there is a clear dissonance between the Lara of the gameplay and the Lara of the story.
In Rise of the Tomb Raider they change that giving Lara a mission she is devoted to, no matter what happens.
It eliminates the dissonance, but the character's psychology change to the one of a psychopath on the verge of breaking.
One could use that... In a more sensitive story. Trinity and the magic of the Gods... Not so good to create nuances
 

Deleted member 1656

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,474
So-Cal
I think I really need to play Shadow of the Tomb Raider. I have a hard time believing it's just as dissonant and bland as '13 and Rise. How could it be with Eidos of Deus Ex and a new writer? I could be totally wrong. I feel like the truth about the game is in such a haze. It always is for new things, especially when they're hot AAA video games. In this case though it just seems like there is a uniquely high amount of preconceptions at work.
 

Sgt. Demblant

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,030
France
I liked 2013 Lara a lot. The writing wasn't the greatest but the plot was simple enough that it didn't really affect my appreciation of the game. Then in Rise, they committed the huge mistake of making everything about her dad and fucking Trinity. The gameplay was still solid but goddamn, the storytelling just got under my skin for some reason. Then they doubled down on that in the movie. Haven't played Shadow yet, maybe when it's under 10 euros or something. Again, I don't doubt that there's a decent action game there, but yeah, considering what I've heard about the story, I know the cutscenes are gonna be painful to sit through.

While I enjoy the original TR game from way back when, Lara was a complete non-factor to me at the time, I thought she looked kinda lame actually, especially in the cg cinematics. So I have no nostalgia for her original persona. And I don't mind a darker approach either, it's just that the writing and characterization are spectacularly bad.
 
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Deleted member 18347

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,572
Dunno if I responded in this thread before but unlikeable =/= bad.

I haven't played SoTR, but I've watched like a couple of hours of it here and there. That moment where Jonah went off on her was well acted and actually quite good.

Can't comment on how the rest of the game is but up to that point it was a refreshing take on the "mass murderin' Indiana Jones" genre.
 

Harlequin

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,614
I have played the first two tomb raider games of the reboot series I'm buying the 3rd one at Christmas is it really that bad of a game can someone explain with spoiling the game for me

It the story the characters the gameplay what?
If you liked the first two games, chances are you'll also like Shadow. It's just that most of us thought the first two were already lacklustre affairs with terrible writing which is why we also disliked Shadow because, in many ways, it's more of the same.
 

Pillock

User Requested Ban
Banned
Dec 29, 2017
1,341
Everybody knows Bubsy is the worst character in video games. Followed by every character in Sonic games other than Sonic.