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shintoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,121
I thought Suicide Squad had pretty good legs? That's how it made so much money (in the US at least)
Both have had pretty good legs.
Venom has had much softer drops for the first 6 weeks or so. It's hitting pass a 2.5x multipler and the biggest factor seems to be it losing theaters last week to all the new flicks.

SS had great legs. 133mil opening to 325mil ain't bad at all.
 

Punished Goku

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,952
Nah, Venom got shit on by critics because it wasn't Marvel with a lot of people hoping it bombs so Spidey can return to Marvel. It's not any worse than stuff like IM, Thor, Capt, Phase 1 Marvel. Has some issues, but there is a solid core to build upon there. SS was unfathomable shit where the sequel needs to be entirely overhauled to resemble nothing of the first to the point where it might as well be a reboot. It got lucky it was released at the end of summer.
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ContractHolder

Jack of All Streams
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,259
James Cameron sits back and laughs at all of this as Avatar 2 and 3 head into post.

I didn't say the payoff would be soon.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
76,219
Providence, RI

Nightwing123

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,413
Nice to see Creed 2 do well (They were smart with budgeting for this movie). I'm ready for Creed 3 and more Michael B. Jordan.
 
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Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,392
Nah, Venom got shit on by critics because it wasn't Marvel with a lot of people hoping it bombs so Spidey can return to Marvel. It's not any worse than stuff like IM, Thor, Capt, Phase 1 Marvel. Has some issues, but there is a solid core to build upon there. SS was unfathomable shit where the sequel needs to be entirely overhauled to resemble nothing of the first to the point where it might as well be a reboot. It got lucky it was released at the end of summer.
It's really clear that a lot of the people pushing Venom have some kind of bone to pick with the MCU. "Critics didn't like it because it wasn't Marvel"? What kind of nonsensical world view is this?
The console wars bullshit is laughable.
 

Playco Armboy

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,406
For a flick that was shit and was assumed to tank hard after the opening. It did well enough in the end.

It's okay.

I said 'it's okay' as in the Suicide Squad's legs were average.

Also, Justice League had a similar level of critical panning and also yielded a 2.4x with Thor: Ragnarok releasing like two weeks afterwards. As did Catwoman. SS' weekly drops are nothing to commend.
 

WetWaffle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,604
It's really clear that a lot of the people pushing Venom have some kind of bone to pick with the MCU. "Critics didn't like it because it wasn't Marvel"? What kind of nonsensical world view is this?
The console wars bullshit is laughable.
Is it any worse than certain people saying all non-mcu movies are trash and hoping/wishing for Venom and all Sony superhero films to bomb because they want all those properties to be returned to marvel? cause that's the kind of shit I've been seeing ever since Venom was announced. I see that a lot more than those like shintoki's post.
 

Schlorgan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,932
Salt Lake City, Utah
Is it any worse than certain people saying all non-mcu movies are trash and hoping/wishing for Venom and all Sony superhero films to bomb because they want all those properties to be returned to marvel? cause that's the kind of shit I've been seeing ever since Venom was announced. I see that a lot more than those like shintoki's post.
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Maybe people just like good movies.

To me, Venom doing well is a validation of Avi Arad's meddling with Spider-Man 3 that killed that franchise, so I would prefer for that kind of stuff to not be rewarded.
 
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kswiston

kswiston

Member
Oct 24, 2017
3,693
I said 'it's okay' as in the Suicide Squad's legs were average.

Also, Justice League had a similar level of critical panning and also yielded a 2.4x with Thor: Ragnarok releasing like two weeks afterwards. As did Catwoman. SS' weekly drops are nothing to commend.

Thor Ragnarok released 2 weeks before. Justice League got bumped by Thanksgiving in weekend #2. Same as Fantastic Beasts 2 this weekend.

Suicide Squad's late legs were good. But it dropped over 67% in its second weekend, so the overall OW multiplier is average.

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Edit: Venom for comparison

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Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
Hopefully it follows the same path as Suicide Squad in that, despite its success, a true sequel never actually comes out.

I don't usually cringe at posts but how in the hell can you cringe at his post for claiming that a lot of people were unwarantedly hard on Venom or want it to fail and then literally say that you never want it to have a sequel. Is this some ironic attempt at bolstering his arguement or what?
 
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dragonbane

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,585
Germany
I guess a third Fantastic Beasts will happen then. Glad about that as I enjoy the franchise. But maybe they should wrap it up there instead of dragging it to 5.
 

Playco Armboy

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,406
Thor Ragnarok released 2 weeks before. Justice League got bumped by Thanksgiving in weekend #2. Same as Fantastic Beasts 2 this weekend.

Suicide Squad's late legs were good. But it dropped over 67% in its second weekend, so the overall OW multiplier is average.

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Edit: Venom for comparison

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True, thanks.

I don't usually cringe at posts but how in the hell can you cringe at his post for claiming that a lot of people were unwarantedly hard on Venom or want it to fail and then literally say that you never want it to have a sequel. Is this some ironic attempt at bolstering his arguement or what?

lmao facts
 

ElBoxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,136
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Maybe people just like good movies.

To me, Venom looks like the extension of Avi Arad's meddling with Spider-Man 3 that killed that franchise, so I would prefer for that kind of stuff to not be rewarded.
Era does sometimes have weird opinions on comic book movies that existed pre-MCU. That MCU formula is like crack to y'all but we still gotta acknowledge the steps that got to where we're at.
 

Schlorgan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,932
Salt Lake City, Utah
Era does sometimes have weird opinions on comic book movies that existed pre-MCU. That MCU formula is like crack to y'all but we still gotta acknowledge the steps that got to where we're at.
The "you just don't like it because it's not the MCU" argument rings really hollow to me, as there are multiple recent examples of non-MCU Marvel movies that were very well-liked by both critics and audiences.
 

WetWaffle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,604
Maybe people just like good movies.

To me, Venom looks like the extension of Avi Arad's meddling with Spider-Man 3 that killed that franchise, so I would prefer for that kind of stuff to not be rewarded.
Those movies like Venom have high audience scores, meaning people like it, so yes it should be rewarded if people are enjoying it. Also I don't know why you're bringing up those. I said I've seen some marvel fans hope other superhero properties fail so they'll go back to marvel. I have seen hate for those movies as well, saying Marvel could do it better, but nowhere near as much as Venom. What makes those movies good, and what makes Venom bad.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
76,219
Providence, RI
I don't usually cringe at posts but how in the hell can you cringe at his post for claiming that a lot of people were unwarantedly hard on Venom or want it to fail and then literally say that you never want it to have a sequel. Is this some ironic attempt at bolstering his arguement or what?

I can't cringe at his post where he makes embarrassing and baseless accusations that critics only gave Venom bad reviews because it's not in the MCU because I personally didn't like the film and don't want it to have a sequel?

That doesn't even make sense. Those two thoughts aren't related.

Me saying I don't want Venom to have a sequel because it's bad is an opinion.

Him saying the critics lied about it being bad is delusional nonsense.

Stop.
 

ElBoxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,136
I find it very entertaining seeing Double Toasted go from, "Ha ha! This movie sucks!" to "Were we wrong about the movie? Is Spider-Man going to be ok?" lol
 
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Astandahl

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,011
You can have bad/ average movie ( according to critics ) that reasonate very well with the audience ( of course a great marketing team does help ) . Venom is clearly one of them.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,053
One day, ONE DAY I want a Robin Hood and/or King Arthur movie that respects the source material, tells a good story, has well-written characters, and DOESN'T force in a bunch of anachronistic bullshit in an utterly failed attempt to draw in the teen demographic.

Am I asking for too much?
 

shintoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,121
I can't cringe at his post where he makes embarrassing and baseless accusations that critics only gave Venom bad reviews because it's not in the MCU because I personally didn't like the film and don't want it to have a sequel?

That doesn't even make sense. Those two thoughts aren't related.

Me saying I don't want Venom to have a sequel because it's bad is an opinion.

Him saying the critics lied about it being bad is delusional nonsense.

Stop.

Please indicate where I said lied?

I could elaborate more if you care. The general consensus I got prior to release was it was an unneeded, sad ass attempt at Sony trying to expand the universe again with terrible trailers leading up to this. I would be included in this.

Turned out it's not really as bad as the other shit down there like BvS, SS, F4, etc. It's much closer to the okayish attempts back in the late 00's. Where it felt outdated and not at the current level of quality, but not nearly as bad. My guess would be people were expecting this year's JL. I don't think they are lying, but got caught up in a sort of reverse hype. People wanted to see Spidey return home, by all indication this did seem like it was going to be a turd. It was looking to be the film people can really rip into... when it's turned out alright.

I'll agree I worded it very poorly, but I didn't say they lied intentional to tank it. I'm on the side of reading it as, they saw Spidey done right in Homecoming and now have to see this. They didn't like it. Most likely Marvel could and would do it better. Turned out, the general population did like this take though.

To me personally, it's on par with Phase 1 Marvel. Where most of the films have some very good aspects to build upon. The first 40minutes of Ironman are fantastic, after that it struggles with the 5 minute villain, uninteresting plot, etc. But RDJ carried it. Captain America is my favorite one, I like it better than CW and WS. Yet, it's probably the weakest of the films plot wise, but that first 1/2 is fantastic to me and Evan's Rogers is perfect. Second half is rough, but Evan's emotional moments still shine. Venom reminds me of this. The Eddy/Venom interactions are the highlight of the film. It worked out surprisingly well because they actually made Venom stupidly charming(a loser) rather than the edge lord I remember. Them being losers worked out well and there is something there to hopefully build off of for better flicks down the road, like with Marvel.
 
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Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
I can't cringe at his post where he makes embarrassing and baseless accusations that critics only gave Venom bad reviews because it's not in the MCU because I personally didn't like the film and don't want it to have a sequel?

That doesn't even make sense. Those two thoughts aren't related.

Me saying I don't want Venom to have a sequel because it's bad is an opinion.

Him saying the critics lied about it being bad is delusional nonsense.

Stop.

I'm not trying to be hard on you or unfair, i legitimacy don't understand. maybe I'm just not seeing it right.

He never said that critics lied, simply that the film was judged harsher for not being a part of the MCU. Are you claiming that the review industry, built on subjectivity, is otherwise completely objective and can't be swayed by external factors?

Your argument is that no one is being harder on Venom than it deserves and that everyone (....who matters...?) is objective and in agreement that Venom is factually bad... inspite of the film generating huge repeat business in a highly competitive season with great user review scores? (In the case of China the best ever for a CBM)

If you looked at the RT scores in depth you can see a good amount of negative reviews are also singing the films praises. Venom is bad in some ways and good in others. Overall people love what the film presents and they want more, particularly citing the leads and overall tone as massive successes.
 
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ElBoxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,136
One day, ONE DAY I want a Robin Hood and/or King Arthur movie that respects the source material, tells a good story, has well-written characters, and DOESN'T force in a bunch of anachronistic bullshit in an utterly failed attempt to draw in the teen demographic.

Am I asking for too much?
You might as well watch Arrow.
 

DeltaRed

Member
Apr 27, 2018
5,746
Venom is trash-tier in every aspect except for the Eddie/Symbiote interaction which is genuinely very good and out-weighs the crap since it is prominent for most of the film. It does not mean the plot which was probably written in 5 minutes on the back of a stamp is actually good or the rest of the characters aren't terrible though.
 

Playco Armboy

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,406
He never said that critics lied, simply that the film was judged harsher for not being a part of the MCU. A phenomenon that an arguement could be made for even on era. In fact we just had a post making that argument.

Where does he say that they lied? He said that they were harder it because of X Y Z. Are you claiming that the review industry, built on subjectivity, is otherwise completely objective and can't be swayed by external factors?

As much as I don't like ZeoVGM's militant pro-MCU stance, the notion that critics are harsher on Venom than most other popcorn fluff through some unfounded favoritism of another schlocky franchise can be addressed with something as simple as this:

I think you seriously overestimate how much critics give a fuck about Marvel lmao

I'm not saying it can't be possible for critics to be looking at Venom with a differently colored lens, but it's ridiculously unlikely lmao. They don't give a shit about franchises the way we quibble over this nonsense.

Mark Kermode reviewing Infinity War was the most glaring example of this. We're over here salivating about Thanos blowing up moons or whatever, he's sitting there not being assed to give a rat's ass about fanservice and callbacks and Easter Eggs. They genuinely don't care. It's all tripe to them.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
76,219
Providence, RI
Please indicate where I said lied?

Okay.

Nah, Venom got shit on by critics because it wasn't Marvel with a lot of people hoping it bombs so Spidey can return to Marvel.

You literally said that it got "shit on by critics because it wasn't Marvel." You don't have to say the word "lie" when you're clearly implying it. You are saying that the reasons that critics wrote in their reviews aren't the real reason that Venom got bad reviews (hence the "nah" at the start of your comment -- you're giving an alternate reason) and that the real reason is that it isn't MCU.

You then said it's no worse than the original Iron Man, which is absolutely laughable.

Saying Venom "got shit on by critics because it wasn't Marvel" is wrong. Simple as that. It is delusional conspiracy theory paranoia, as proven by numerous other non-MCU movies that got great reviews.

The movie is bad. So it got bad reviews.
 

Sweeney Swift

User Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,743
#IStandWithTaylor
"Bad movie did a lot of money, therefore it's good"

Flawless logic
I'll never understand why some people can't admit they like something that's bad (Shit, one of my favorite film franchises ever is Saw, and I'm fully capable of admitting at least half that series was trash-ass trash, including at least one film that could have not been made at all because the overall plot didn't progress) or can't admit bad films are capable of making money (like every single Transformers film except for the Knight one never happened)
 
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