New Zealand Pride's biggest sponsors pull out after orgainzers ban police uniforms

ry-dog · Nov 23, 2018

A crowdfunding page for the Auckland Pride Parade has raised $4819 overnight, after sponsors pulled out of the event.

Sponsors have been bailing out after the Auckland Pride board banned police from marching in uniform, mirroring pride events across the world

The board made the decision after several LGBTQ community meetings heard concerns from those who said they had and still do experience harm and violence from police, especially people of colour.

Vodafone NZ Rainbow Whānau said, after consultation with colleagues, the belief of walking the talk of inclusion may mean in this case, not walking at all.

"It's simply the right thing to do to stand with the police in this instance, as we would with any excluded group, and insist on inclusion for all," the statement said

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-...y-5000-overnight-after-sponsors-pull-out.html

Thought this was absolutely revolting, a police uniform isn't a protected class of people. Given that LGBT convictions were only wiped this year without compensation, and the police's well documented and studied history of racial profiling - its crazy seeing people take the side of the police.

Most of the major sponours like Bank of New Zealand and Vodafone pulled out, likening the move to genuine discrimination. Police weren't even banned from the parade, they just couldn't wear their usual uniform.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/auckland/1087...ompanies-pulling-out-of-Auckland-Pride-Parade

"We're really looking at a moment in queer organising where we have to ask ourselves, 'what is it that we've achieved and who have we left behind?'

"As young people now, we're looking around and we're hearing our friends tell us stories about their interactions with police and we look at the police's own statistics," he said.

"We need to look at what are the actual end outcomes of the police force and how they're interacting with our community.

"We also remain committed to the Pride Parade going ahead unlike the police who have shown that they are prepared to lead a corporate boycott of one weekend that our community gets a year.

"I think that in itself is a statement of how the police view their relationship with our community and we're prepared to say 'that's not right'".

The people who held diversity liaison positions in businesses were generally not the most marginalised people in the LGBTQIA+ community, he said.

"I'm a young, gay white guy – I've done pretty well but it's now time to look at who has been excluded so that we don't pull the ladder up behind us and that we remember none of us are free until we all are.

"As long as there are gay people, there will be gay pride, as long as there are trans people there will be trans pride – it's a street and we can walk on it and we're going to take our message to New Zealanders.

"We want Pride to be for everyone – that's entirely our point."

Deleted member 46641 · Nov 24, 2018

It's simply the right thing to do to stand with the police in this instance, as we would with any excluded group, and insist on inclusion for all," the statement said

Fuck off with this blue lives matter "both sides" bullshit. Changing my mobile carrier from Vodafone to someone else.

Deleted member 3093 · Nov 24, 2018

Police officers are not people who willingly stood with members of pride.

Eldy · Nov 24, 2018

I understand why they did it, but I think there's something to be said for visibility of LGBTQ people within the police profession for the same reasons that you want to see racial and gender diversity in police forces. My perspective on this is undoubtedly shaped by having a stepparent who's a queer cop, though.

kittens · Nov 24, 2018

yeah, cops have no place at pride

Pride is supposed to affirm life, not death.

Deleted member 15440 · Nov 24, 2018

Eldy said:
I understand why they did it, but I think there's something to be said for visibility of LGBTQ people within the police profession for the same reasons that you want to see racial and gender diversity in police forces. My perspective on this is undoubtedly shaped by having a stepparent who's a queer cop, though.

they can quit being cops anytime they want to take up a less morally heinous occupation

Eldy · Nov 24, 2018

aeolist said:
they can quit being cops anytime they want to take up a less morally heinous occupation

Without necessarily disagreeing that being a cop means being complicit in some horrible shit, LGBTQ people will nonetheless have to interact with police for the foreseeable future and that reason alone is sufficient for me to prefer that not all cops are straight and cis.

Deleted member 15440 · Nov 24, 2018

Eldy said:
Without necessarily disagreeing that being a cop means being complicit in some horrible shit, LGBTQ people will nonetheless have to interact with police for the foreseeable future and that reason alone is sufficient for me to prefer that not all cops are straight and cis.

co-opting the trappings of minority inclusion to whitewash the violent apparatus of an oppressive state only serves to placate the ambivalent majority without accomplishing anything notably good

nobody is helped by the boot on their throat having a rainbow sticker

Deleted member 2779 · Nov 24, 2018

Been following this on the news for a while and the backlash makes me want to go more.

Sai · Nov 24, 2018

lol fuck cops

Eldy · Nov 24, 2018

aeolist said:
co-opting the trappings of minority inclusion to whitewash the violent apparatus of an oppressive state only serves to placate the ambivalent majority without accomplishing anything notably good

nobody is helped by the boot on their throat having a rainbow sticker

A queer person who is the victim of sexual assault is, however, helped if the officer handling the investigation is also queer (or at least more sensitive to LGBTQ issues; something that's improved by having a diverse set of coworkers) rather than a good ol' boy. This isn't a hypothetical example, as noted above. That said, I understand the desire to not have cops involved in pride parades and I'm not trying to invalidate that reasoning.

Subpar Scrub · Nov 24, 2018

kittens said:
yeah, cops have no place at pride

Pride is supposed to affirm life, not death.

This seems a bit extreme when talking about modern NZ policing, isn't it? Or am I missing something?

Hypron · Nov 24, 2018

Subpar Scrub said:
This seems a bit extreme when talking about modern NZ policing, isn't it? Or am I missing something?

I mean sure they don't shoot minorities like cops in the US, but they can still be shitty and are the enforcers of institutional racism. Look at any stats involving Māori people for example.

Reminds me of my friend telling me about his father, who's Māori and pretty well off, getting followed home and stopped by police on several occasions just for living in an expensive area.

Bonafide · Nov 24, 2018

you must respect the state

Kirblar · Nov 24, 2018

Eldy said:
A queer person who is the victim of sexual assault is, however, helped if the officer handling the investigation is also queer (or at least more sensitive to LGBTQ issues; something that's improved by having a diverse set of coworkers) rather than a good ol' boy. This isn't a hypothetical example, as noted above. That said, I understand the desire to not have cops involved in pride parades and I'm not trying to invalidate that reasoning.

Yup. Getting people from minority communities involved to help break down issues is a good thing.

Murders and other crimes dont solve themselves.

Psittacus · Nov 24, 2018

This is the exact same train of thought that leads event organisers to force people to be in the same room with their abusers (or leave) in the name of inclusion. I'm not saying this is that, but if you go down that road without thinking about it real hard first then it leads to some dark places.

Dead Man · Nov 24, 2018

Yeah, nah. Visibly queer police helps. I get being angry at the police force in general, but tto exclude queer police seems like it helps nothing except demonstrating anger. Which has a place, but I'm not sure a pride march is it.

Then again, I'm not from New Zealand so my opinion isn't really informed by the local situation. I would be disappointed if a similar decision was made here in South Australia. First queer person I really knew after moving here years ago was a cop. He had to be closeted twice over, didn't want cops knowing he was gay, didn't want the community knowing he was a cop. Eventually just went and opened a cafe I think.

Anyway, I'm my local context this feels like it would be unnunnecessarily excluding. And we have a pretty shit recent history of cops ignoring violence against queer people.

Again, just based off my local context.

BowieZ · Nov 24, 2018

I hope they had some serious discussions with police representatives before making this decision. Whether or not it's the right decision (I don't know enough about LGBT oppression in NZ), they surely should've known this would be controversial, and probably would've benefited from coming to a mutual understanding/compromise. (Banning just the uniform doesn't sound like it was a compromise tbh.)

Now they have a PR nightmare on their hands, rightly or wrongly.

bad poster · Nov 24, 2018

don't the organisers know you can't have rainbow capitalism without the blue?

Deleted member 47318 · Nov 24, 2018

Wonder how many people in this thread will just assume every police force in the first world is just as bad (or even remotely comparable) as the US one.

Menchi · Nov 24, 2018

As far as I could see, Police still march in UK Pride parades too. In fact, Belfast actually had uniformed police for the first time this year. We seem to be going the opposite direction by showing the police more frequently. I do think there is a benefit in visible LGBT police during the parades, but maybe that's borne from the UK police not being quite as horrific as the US & others. I certainly think it is a little more grey than it is in the US at least.

cartoon_soldier · Nov 24, 2018

Is police banned or are gay policemen/women banned from marching in their uniform? I got a bit confused.

Deleted member 35777 · Nov 24, 2018

Vodafone is crazy levels of inclusiveness, they openly put up job advertisements in New Zealand for female only applications for jobs to up their diversity quota.

Hell when I worked there they had fcking pie charts showing who HR needed to hire ethnicity and gender wise to keep it balanced.

Them pulling out over just this doesn't shock me at all, more surprised others went that route like BNZ given there internal company culture is kinda racist and discriminatory as hell.

LGBT people in New Zealand don't suffer much in the city areas but in the country areas its a completely different matter and I don't blame them for pushing the cop uniform out.

Minorities in New Zealand have it rough, hell the Maori shit I've seen is just plain sick in some places.

We don't have bad cops by any stretch of the imagination but we definitely have some bad behaviours that reflect badly on them, plus we need another 3000 cops to support our country which we don't have doesn't help either.

Deleted member 20295 · Nov 24, 2018

cartoon_soldier said:
Is police banned or are gay policemen/women banned from marching in their uniform? I got a bit confused.

LGBTQ Officers are banned from wearing the uniforms.

I don't agree with it at all, it was great attending Pride in Belfast and finally having them (as Menchi said, seems to be going the other way around over here), then also having them at Manchester Pride this year again was also great as usual (1st year taking my son, who had just came out) - cheers from the crowds as they came past was great.
-
I don't agree with the sponsors pulling funding, but I also don't agree with the event banning police uniforms.

cartoon_soldier · Nov 24, 2018

The Cowboy said:
LGBTQ Officers are banned from wearing the uniforms.

I don't agree with it at all, it was great attendeding Pride in Belfast and finally having them (as Menchi said, seems to be going the other way around over here), then also having them at Manchester Pride this year again was also great as usual (1st year taking my son, who had just came out) - cheers from the crowds as they came past was great.

Isn't this like saying LGTBQ officers should not be proud of their jobs? Makes no sense to me either.

I don't know too much about it, but I can see why the corporate sponsors are uneasy at the exclusion.

Deleted member 1041 · Nov 24, 2018

Are new zealand cops comparable to American cops?

LewieP · Nov 24, 2018

Feels to me that wearing some clothing identifying yourself as off duty police supporting price/LGBTQ movements, but specifically not a uniform, would be a better idea than wearing a uniform.

Uniformed police are generally speaking a threat to people attending Pride.

Edit: I don't have knowledge of New Zealand police officers specifically though.

CalamityPixel · Nov 24, 2018

American Police does not equal all Police people.

Police are pretty common in UK parades, but again, our police aren't known for gunning people down.

ry-dog · Nov 24, 2018

BreezyLimbo said:
Are new zealand cops comparable to American cops?

No.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/partner/un...erse-police-service-and-why-its-so-important/
But they do racially profile (the police themselves even acknowledge this in their own reports/studies) and NZ has the second highest Western incarceration rates. They've had huge diversity pushes which is a step in the right direction, but things like trans rights in prisons remain an issue

We should be increasing police visibility in diverse spaces so they can recruit minorities, but on the other hand celebrating governmental power is a little dangerous given how the law isn't always moral. I'm really not sure what the solution is, but I think not wearing the traditional police uniform is a perfectly reasonable request

NotVeryFriendly · Nov 24, 2018

LewieP said:
Feels to me that wearing some clothing identifying yourself as off duty police supporting price/LGBTQ movements, but specifically not a uniform, would be a better idea than wearing a uniform.

Uniformed police are generally speaking a threat to people attending Pride.

There's a bit of an assumption in the first sentence that police marching in the Pride Parade would be doing so as an ally, but it's also possible those who would be marching openly in the uniform in the parade are members of the LGBT community. Typically police forces are quite conservative institutions and being 'out' as an officer in that institution puts you at risk of discrimination in the workplace.

Marching in the parade (in uniform) notes that there are LGBT police officers, and you don't need to be afraid of being out within that institution as you can be accepted and marks a growing level of acceptance within the workplace. Foregoing the uniform almost adds a separation between the two aspects of LGBT officers lives sending the message that it's okay for you to be LGBT, you just can't be LGBT in the workplace when you're 'in uniform'. For LGBT teenagers who wish to join the police force it's a much more powerful to see that you can be openly gay and accepted while still in-uniform than to think that's an aspect of your life you need to keep detached from your work. A changing police force demographic (increasing the minority presence) also has the knock-on effect of a more progressive institution, and seeing minority police officers being proud and open about their status sends the message that it's okay to enter that workforce if you are a minority.

Of course in this context I'm unfamiliar with the nature of the New Zealand police force so there may be important additional context which is very important to the situation.

Deleted member 1041 · Nov 24, 2018

ry-dog said:
No.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/partner/un...erse-police-service-and-why-its-so-important/
But they do racially profile (the police themselves even acknowledge this in their own reports/studies) and NZ has the second highest Western incarceration rates. They've had huge diversity pushes which is a step in the right direction.

We should be increasing police visibility in diverse spaces so they can recruit minorities, but on the other hand celebrating governmental power is a little dangerous given how the law isn't always moral. I'm really not sure what the solution is, but I think not wearing the traditional police uniform is a perfectly reasonable request

hm.

I feel alotta people ITT are judging them by American Standards. If the NZ police are making an effort to be more inclusive, that's ok?

Westbahnhof · Nov 24, 2018

The Cowboy said:
LGBTQ Officers are banned from wearing the uniforms.

I don't agree with it at all, it was great attending Pride in Belfast and finally having them (as Menchi said, seems to be going the other way around over here), then also having them at Manchester Pride this year again was also great as usual (1st year taking my son, who had just came out) - cheers from the crowds as they came past was great.
-
I don't agree with the sponsors pulling funding, but I also don't agree with the event banning police uniforms.

Your stance is basically mine as well.
The sponsors pulling funding is obviously bullshit, but I don't think uniformed LGBT cops should be banned from participating.

ry-dog · Nov 24, 2018

BreezyLimbo said:
hm.

I feel alotta people ITT are judging them by American Standards. If the NZ police are making an effort to be more inclusive, that's ok?

Certainly. But rainbow police cars, diversity hires don't really mean much when the stats aren't changing. I mean the police still lock people away for weed possession, I don't think we should be celebrating government power in any parade. You can celebrate individual achievements or certain sectors, but celebrating the entire police force without acknowledging the issues seems weird

Miles X · Nov 24, 2018

Sponsers shoudn't have banned the uniforms. I don't know much about NZ and their relationship with the police, but I imagine it's closer to how it is in the UK than the US.

Stupid to push away allies like this.

Endrix · Nov 24, 2018

A.By said:
Police officers are not people who willingly stood with members of pride.

This is not about being 'pride as an officer', it is about acceptance as a queer in each and every job possible. To demonstrate that being gay does not disqualify you for being in a position of authority.
Which is a very important point to make I believe.

cameron · Nov 24, 2018

Local Pride organizers in whatever region make decisions based on community feedback. It's weighted towards those who are most vulnerable in their community. Policing not being as bad as the U.S. isn't really part of the conversation. And these decisions aren't easy or straight forward to make.

In 2017, Pride Toronto barred TPS from marching in uniform. They might be allowed to march next year. Talks are ongoing.

CBC News: Pride Toronto opens door for city police to possibly rejoin summer parade after 2-year ban

City police would be allowed to march in the 2019 Pride parade following a two-year ban if they meet Pride Toronto's entrance policy, the organization says.

Canada's largest municipal police force will be able to make a bid to have uniformed officers rejoin the march, which is held every June, Pride Toronto announced Tuesday morning.

Toronto police have been excluded from the festivities since 2017 amid a strained relationship with the LGBTQ community. A difficult history between the force and the city's black community saw safety concerns fester.

Tensions were further inflamed in January following the arrest of accused serial killer Bruce McArthur.

The homicide investigation unearthed several missing persons cases and confirmed decade-old fears that an alleged serial killer was targeting the city's LGBTQ community. It shook residents and saw several groups speak out, saying police didn't take their concerns seriously.

--------------

During the news conference, Toronto police Chief Mark Saunders applauded the decision and reaffirmed the service's commitment to fostering respect and acceptance in the LGBTQ community.

"This is just the start to a much longer journey," Saunders told reporters. "We're not where we need to be yet, but as chief I promise you the Toronto Police Service will do anything and everything we can to get to where we need to be."

Daphne · Nov 24, 2018

God, I'm angry. I totally agree with the organiser's statement in the OP. By insisting, the police show they care more about the uniform than the community, especially the more vulnerable members. So they can fuck off, frankly, along with the corporate sponsors and other pretend allies.

manchego obfuscator · Nov 24, 2018

Wish the rich white bootlicking assholes organizing NYC Pride had the same ideals.

ArnoldJRimmer · Nov 24, 2018

Some of those that work forces, are the same that burn crosses.

Has the police in any country ever been on right side of hsitory?

Genuine question.

In the US they were the ones aiming hoses and loosing the attack dogs on African Americans during the civil rights era, and shooting and attacking kids protesting the Vietnam war. And currently pushing "blue lives matters"utter stupidity.

I wonder if it's always the same.

AaronWatermelon · Nov 24, 2018

BreezyLimbo said:
Are new zealand cops comparable to American cops?

Hell no. Our police are generally pretty good, helpful people, and in smaller towns the police force are usually made up from well known and liked locals.
That's not to say there's no issues - Maori are way more likely to be pulled up for a random traffic stop, in my experience.

Cyanity · Nov 24, 2018

Uniformed cops can GTFO of pride events. Either show up in plainsclothes or stay the fuck home.

i_am_ben · Nov 24, 2018

I personally think it's good to have police marching in their uniforms.

Deleted member 3093 · Nov 24, 2018

Endrix said:
This is not about being 'pride as an officer', it is about acceptance as a queer in each and every job possible. To demonstrate that being gay does not disqualify you for being in a position of authority.
Which is a very important point to make I believe.

I think it's more important that the people attending pride feel safe

TheAbsolution · Nov 24, 2018

A.By said:
I think it's more important that the people attending pride feel safe

Agreed.

New Zealand Pride's biggest sponsors pull out after orgainzers ban police uniforms

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