Nintendo Switch update 6.2.0 may have fixed its security flaw and stopped the hacking scene for now

Joey Ravn said:

The code used for SX OS was not stolen. I don't get why people keep repeating that as fact, when it's simply not. SX OS uses open-source software that anyone can use. Hekate and ReiNX both use parts of the same code. What they failed to do is to properly give credit to the original coders, as dictated by the free software license the code is released on. If you want to attack Team Xecuter for something, that should be it.

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Not accurate FYI. It can be used privately in whatever way one wants, yes, but the GPLv2 dictates one can only publish the resulting work if one also discloses the modified code, which they didn't and most likely never will. Crediting is a tiny part of it, the real problem is their taking advantage of a community sourced effort without giving anything back to said community at all, which ultimately is what the license was designed to avoid.

Smash Kirby said:

Has any innocent Switch owners actually been banned?

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Don't think we've seen any public cases, no. Even among HB users, anecdotal evidence in my time with the 3DS and Switch scenes indicates Ninty tends to stick to banning people who do obviously wrong things like pirating. Hell, I've homebrewed my 3DS and Switch early on their lifetimes while sticking to the rules and still going strong. Well, at least I was on the Switch until the mandatory update hit, but last I checked I still had full access.

Lol at arguing 'preservation' for a very healthy console with many games coming out, all of which you can easily find and buy.

Getta out of here with that.

BernardoOne said:

That's pretty ignorant of how preservation works. Most publishers are not sending that organizations unprotected backups of their games, and those in the organization will have to use the same tools everyone else uses.

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i'm not talking about new games.
when the rom sites were getting shut down, people were saying how that's a blow to game preservation, when organizations like this exist that do it without feeling like they have to provide every one with easy access to free roms. i'm sure that organization's main priority is to preserve old games that are actually in risk of being lost, not switch or ps4 games that are being released currently. i said it before, that all talk of hacking, roms and preservation is completely valid once the system is no longer relevant, it's just the talk of game preservation is not easy to take seriously when it's about games currently available to buy.

Laughing Banana said:

Lol at arguing 'preservation' for a very healthy console with many games coming out, all of which you can easily find and buy.

Getta out of here with that.

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it's completely ridiculous. i can't believe it's an actual conversation, like words have completely lost their meaning and we're applying preservation to things that are now a click away from legally purchasing.

Joey Ravn said:

The code used for SX OS was not stolen. I don't get why people keep repeating that as fact, when it's simply not. SX OS uses open-source software that anyone can use.

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It's code anyone can use as long as they follow the license. TX never even tried to adhere to it, and in fact obscured their code to try and hide their usage of the open-source code. And put in brick code for people trying to poke around at it. They are theives. They promote piracy. Stop defending them.

Toad King said:

It's code anyone can use as long as they follow the license. TX never even tried to adhere to it, and in fact obscured their code to try and hide their usage of the open-source code. And put in brick code for people trying to poke around at it. They are theives. They promote piracy. Stop defending them.

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that's what i thought, but i got called out when i pointed that out because people justify giving them money if they're not gonna use their product for piracy.

Here, read this for some good supplementary reading of Switch hacking scene:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mother...nintendo-switch-hacking-piracy-pirates?espv=1

mazi said:

i'm not talking about new games.
when the rom sites were getting shut down, people were saying how that's a blow to game preservation, when organizations like this exist that do it without feeling like they have to provide every one with easy access to free roms. i'm sure that organization's main priority is to preserve old games that are actually in risk of being lost, not switch or ps4 games that are being released currently. i said it before, that all talk of hacking, roms and preservation is completely valid once the system is no longer relevant, it's just the talk of game preservation is not easy to take seriously when it's about games currently available to buy.


it's completely ridiculous. i can't believe it's an actual conversation, like words have completely lost their meaning and we're applying preservation to things that are now a click away from legally purchasing.

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Preservation is best done as soon as possible. Without the PS3 being hacked , it would be impossible to preserve, say , Scott Pilgrim Vs The World

mazi said:

where are you downloading the updates from? if you're comfortable downloading them why not download the roms too instead of going to the trouble of dumping them for yourself?
i don't see how downloading roms is wrong but downloading updates is ok. if one is piracy, so is the other.


yeah, i agree. that's going to be the challenge when it comes to preserving the games from this and the previous generation. the updates and dlc and all of that will make preserving a basic dump of the physical copies pretty pointless.

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Downloading an update is piracy? lol wut.

Trojita said:

Downloading an update is piracy? lol wut.

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how are you downloading the update? by someone making it available for pirates. i get how dumping your own games and playing the games isn't piracy, but downloading the rom, even if you have a legal copy of the game is still piracy. i don't see how downloading the rom is piracy but downloading the update isn't.

Laughing Banana said:

Lol at arguing 'preservation' for a very healthy console with many games coming out, all of which you can easily find and buy.

Getta out of here with that.

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Do you understand the meaning of word "preservation"?

Tavernade said:

Preservation is really important but it isn't going to make me think any better of hackers unless they keep all their hacks to themselves and work on them purely to create a preservation library. As soon as any hack or abuse is available to the public, it's no longer about preservation.

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Hacking is not about preservation or enabling piracy at all. It's about breaking a system's security allowing it to run unsigned code . It is okay morally and legally from day one.

I'm glad to see so many sensible responses in this thread pointing out the hypocrisy that comes up in discussions about preserving games that you can literally buy any time you want. Why ERA continues to allow topics about hacks that are clearly used for piracy confuses me.

Tavernade said:

Preservation is really important but it isn't going to make me think any better of hackers unless they keep all their hacks to themselves and work on them purely to create a preservation library. As soon as any hack or abuse is available to the public, it's no longer about preservation.

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Hacking isnt just about running backups you know, there are a lot of good homebrew applications that people can make

ConanEdogawa said:

I'm glad to see so many sensible responses in this thread pointing out the hypocrisy that comes up in discussions about preserving games that you can literally buy any time you want. Why ERA continues to allow topics about hacks that are clearly used for piracy confuses me.

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Because that's ridiculously stupid. It's like banning all Switch discussion because a Switch can be used for piracy.

BernardoOne said:

Hacking is not about preservation or enabling piracy at all. It's about breaking a system's security allowing it to run unsigned code . It is okay morally and legally from day one.

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Exactly.

I think that something a lot of people are forgetting is that hacking (and cracking) has existed since the first computer - those interested in hardware and software and 'how things work' love to tinker and love a challenge. It's what drives them. A lot of our current hardware and software experts likely started off with hacking something to some degree, whether it was trying to gain access to a system that they couldn't normally access to trying to drive hardware and software in ways not originally thought of. Modern software and computers wouldn't be anywhere near as advanced as they are without hackers as their knowledge feeds back into the system and so creates even more advanced hardware and software. This is still the case. Some of those currently involved in hacking the Switch will very likely be involved in some increasingly advanced hardware and software as the years go by, whether it's the latest mobile phone or a best-selling game.

At the very least Capcom would be absolutely shafted without those tireless individuals who most definitely preserved their games for posterity back in the late 1990-early 2000's.

Street Fighter 30th wouldn't exist today without it.

SadPaul said:

I got a guide from reddit to downgrade 6.2, but it's difficult, and the news from the article. this gus say new cfw version will be released, true or not?

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No its bullshit. This group barely develops anything of their own and otherwise steals community products to sell, they don't have any more than any one else. What they do have is wanting to sell you a product and will continue to lie about their progress as they have done for months about defeating patched switches. That way they can keep selling product.

The only thing this piracy group of dipshits has actually said so far is to not update to 6.2 (though their website still says works with any firmware, lol), anything else is others making up rumors.

This picture is actually dumb on a lot of levels since it even says "no announcement from any team... TX has announced the will release a new version"...?

Tavernade said:

If they wanna hack it apart of their own time that's fine. As soon as they share how to do it on the internet it becomes morally dubious (or as soon as they use that hacking to give themselves someone else's work for free). I can figure out how to lock pick on my own time for fun, but if I share how to do it on the internet I'm morally wrong. If I use it to break into someone's house, it's also morally wrong.

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Generally speaking hackers tend to share their knowledge and ideas and the Internet is a great way to do this.

You'll next be advocating for the closure of the Internet.

It's all about responsibility, decency, humanity and also honesty - people choose how to use the tools that they have access to. A hammer can be used to drive nails into a block of wood or to murder somebody. Likewise people can used a cracked Switch to run all kinds of homebrew, to teach themselves programming or to pirate Switch games.

Because some want to indulge in piracy should we say that hacking the Switch is a 'bad thing' and should be stopped 100% ? The Internet can be used for good and bad in all kinds of ways, should we all be stopped from using that too because some abuse the power it gives them ?

Do you see what I'm getting at?

Tavernade said:

If they wanna hack it apart of their own time that's fine. As soon as they share how to do it on the internet it becomes morally dubious (or as soon as they use that hacking to give themselves someone else's work for free). I can figure out how to lock pick on my own time for fun, but if I share how to do it on the internet I'm morally wrong. If I use it to break into someone's house, it's also morally wrong.

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Greatest of respect, but it's really none of your business what someone-else does with their own property. A lot of people moralising from on high in this thread forget that.

Smash Kirby said:

Has any innocent Switch owners actually been banned?

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mazi said:

as for the rest of those points, i haven't heard about anyone getting unjustly banned, has it happened to anyone who hasn't hacked their system? because if you hacked you already should accept that it may happen.
and that makes no sense to hack your system to sideload updated if your wifi gets broken, instead or just fixing the wifi.

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Oh, so you trust Nintendo of all people to get every ban right?
Even Microsoft couldn't do it right during their 360 banwaves and we probably can all agree that MS knows a thing or two about computers compared to Nintendo.
How many threads of Sony have had on here, where accounts were banned for no apparent reason?

AFAIK from googling Nintendo is handing "super bans" (no CDN) to every single cfw console. Doesn't matter if you pirated games or just ran legal homebrew software. That's not a problem?



That guy had both of his consoles banned, even tho he had one for homebrew stuff and one for legit purposes.
Oh and another thing. Every Switch cart has a UID. Let's say a guy rips the game and sells it on eBay, the buyer might get hit with a ban because the same UID will pop up on different consoles.
Don't get me wrong tho, if Nintendo can identify a console that's running a pirated game -> ban the shit out of that user.

But this current behaviour by Nintendo is simply a billion dollar company that fucked up (badly hidden RCM mode), can't take the L and enjoy the great success that they're having regardless of the hack.
Now they're getting super aggressive with their customer base.
The parrallels to Microsoft ca. 2010 are staggering.

mazi said:

I haven't heard about anyone getting unjustly banned, has it happened to anyone who hasn't hacked their system? because if you hacked you already should accept that it may happen. and that makes no sense to hack your system to sideload updated if your wifi gets broken, instead or just fixing the wifi..

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Why would you need to 'hear' when there's a public document listing all the bans that is updated daily with the actual error codes and what the user did to bring on the ban.

Laughing Banana said:

Lol at arguing 'preservation' for a very healthy console with many games coming out, all of which you can easily find and buy.

Getta out of here with that.

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Agreed.

But those people will throw out a narrative that tries to change the conversation to shut this line of thinking down, its completely ridiculous.

BernardoOne said:

Because that's ridiculously stupid. It's like banning all Switch discussion because a Switch can be used for piracy.

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BernardoOne said:

Hacking is not about preservation or enabling piracy at all. It's about breaking a system's security allowing it to run unsigned code . It is okay morally and legally from day one.

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You've got to admit, that there wasn't just a hacking and homebrew scene once the Switch was hacked. It straight up blew into a hacking, homebrew AND piracy scene. Piracy comes as a result of hacking. There was no piracy before the hackers came along.

Now the great thing is that people who really just want to use it for homebrew, as it seems for most people (who wants piracy xD), can hack their switch to boot Linux on it. Have fun with it, there you have your "hackability" and leave everything else alone. Hope their security on the OS level stays tight for the next few months.

Ninjadom said:

You've got to admit, that there wasn't just a hacking and homebrew scene once the Switch was hacked. It straight up blew into a hacking, homebrew AND piracy scene. Piracy comes as a result of hacking. There was no piracy before the hackers came along.

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But that line of thinking can lead to a slippery slope very quickly. Cars shouldn't have been invented because you can use them to run people over, Knives shouldn't have been invented because you can hurt people with them etc. etc.

Don't get me wrong I'm all for banning pirates and stopping piracy but homebrew and hacking is nothing bad and completely legal as has been proven more than once in court.

The moral debate is up to everyone themselves and no amount of forum discussion will change that. The amount of "damage" Nintendo and publishers might or might not take can't be determined in any meaningful way as one download =\= one lost sale. The hardcore pirates either pirate or don't buy most likely so users who use homebrew and legitimate backups shouldn't get lumped in with them, as again, it's legal and morally not nearly as questionable as other things.

regenhuber said:

Oh, so you trust Nintendo of all people to get every ban right?
Even Microsoft couldn't do it right during their 360 banwaves and we probably can all agree that MS knows a thing or two about computers compared to Nintendo.
How many threads of Sony have had on here, where accounts were banned for no apparent reason?

AFAIK from googling Nintendo is handing "super bans" (no CDN) to every single cfw console. Doesn't matter if you pirated games or just ran legal homebrew software. That's not a problem?



That guy had both of his consoles banned, even tho he had one for homebrew stuff and one for legit purposes.
Oh and another thing. Every Switch cart has a UID. Let's say a guy rips the game and sells it on eBay, the buyer might get hit with a ban because the same UID will pop up on different consoles.
Don't get me wrong tho, if Nintendo can identify a console that's running a pirated game -> ban the shit out of that user.

But this current behaviour by Nintendo is simply a billion dollar company that fucked up (badly hidden RCM mode), can't take the L and enjoy the great success that they're having regardless of the hack.
Now they're getting super aggressive with their customer base.
The parrallels to Microsoft ca. 2010 are staggering.

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And u believe that random guy who have proven to have hack its console over algorithm which actually follow a set of rules?

If Nintendo really banned a legit no hack platform, that guy can easily bring the case to nintendo for them to open up their console for wrongly banning the console. But if they are not doing that, i dont believe that he is being honest on whether that Switch is being as clean as he mention.

regenhuber said:

But this current behaviour by Nintendo is simply a billion dollar company that fucked up (badly hidden RCM mode), can't take the L and enjoy the great success that they're having regardless of the hack.
Now they're getting super aggressive with their customer base.
The parrallels to Microsoft ca. 2010 are staggering.

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You've not the slightest idea what you're talking about. RCM, recovery mode, isn't something you 'badly hide'. Do you also hide the power button? This shows you are just repeating nonsense you read on the internet with zero understanding.

The flaw IN RCM that allowed for it to run arbitrary code due to a lack of code termination check has nothing to do with Nintendo 'badly hiding RCM', it had to do with a critical flaw in nVidias bootloader and impacts far more than just the Switch.

Why not actually be informed...

It's impressive. I wonder what it will spell out for the future of piracy

Skyfireblaze said:

Cars shouldn't have been invented because you can use them to run people over, Knives shouldn't have been invented because you can hurt people with them etc. etc.

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if 95% of cars where used to run people over, i kinda think they'd be banned too.

regenhuber said:

Oh, so you trust Nintendo of all people to get every ban right?
Even Microsoft couldn't do it right during their 360 banwaves and we probably can all agree that MS knows a thing or two about computers compared to Nintendo.
How many threads of Sony have had on here, where accounts were banned for no apparent reason?

AFAIK from googling Nintendo is handing "super bans" (no CDN) to every single cfw console. Doesn't matter if you pirated games or just ran legal homebrew software. That's not a problem?



That guy had both of his consoles banned, even tho he had one for homebrew stuff and one for legit purposes.
Oh and another thing. Every Switch cart has a UID. Let's say a guy rips the game and sells it on eBay, the buyer might get hit with a ban because the same UID will pop up on different consoles.
Don't get me wrong tho, if Nintendo can identify a console that's running a pirated game -> ban the shit out of that user.

But this current behaviour by Nintendo is simply a billion dollar company that fucked up (badly hidden RCM mode), can't take the L and enjoy the great success that they're having regardless of the hack.
Now they're getting super aggressive with their customer base.
The parrallels to Microsoft ca. 2010 are staggering.

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Nintendo doesn't want people running homebrew using their services, their EULA says as much. We had threads complaining that people are flat out cheating in Splatoon, Nintendo is bringing the hammer down and I don't have much of an issue with it due to the Switch being as new as it is, and a good lot of people are using homebrew to run emulators anyways. How they got those preserved games ROMS is anyone's guess.

If you want Nintendo to change their stance on homebrew then do something about it, boycott their games, don't buy any of their services, or just tell everyone you know to avoid Nintendo like the plague. Have we seen a case where someone who didn't touch homebrew on any of their systems with a 24 1/2 pole actually get banned?

Tavernade said:

And if it was just about running backups I'd be ok with it. Again, I don't see how homebrew benefits enough to justify the piracy that comes with it. The ONLY important thing lost without hacking is game preservation, so if that's not the goal, I don't see how it can be defended.

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Homebrew can actually be super useful, wii u had one that let you use your gamecube controllers on games that weren't smash bros, spoofing controllers can be a god send. Personalization stuff can be pretty fun too

Vena said:

You've not the slightest idea what you're talking about. RCM, recovery mode, isn't something you 'badly hide'. Do you also hide the power button? This shows you are just repeating nonsense you read on the internet with zero understanding.

The flaw IN RCM that allowed for it to run arbitrary code due to a lack of code termination check has nothing to do with Nintendo 'badly hiding RCM', it had to do with a critical flaw in nVidias bootloader and impacts far more than just the Switch.

Why not actually be informed...

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since you seem to be in the know, are some people who haven't hacked their systems getting banned by mistake?

Mistermetz said:

Now the great thing is that people who really just want to use it for homebrew, as it seems for most people (who wants piracy xD), can hack their switch to boot Linux on it. Have fun with it, there you have your "hackability" and leave everything else alone. Hope their security on the OS level stays tight for the next few months.

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exactly, the people who want to use their system for homebrew and emulators can still do that, which is great.

Vena said:

You've not the slightest idea what you're talking about. RCM, recovery mode, isn't something you 'badly hide'. Do you also hide the power button? This shows you are just repeating nonsense you read on the internet with zero understanding.

The flaw IN RCM that allowed for it to run arbitrary code due to a lack of code termination check has nothing to do with Nintendo 'badly hiding RCM', it had to do with a critical flaw in nVidias bootloader and impacts far more than just the Switch.

Why not actually be informed...

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damn, trying to be a smartass and stanning for Nintendo in one post.
Now I've seen it all.

Yeah, it's not Nintendo's fault that they designed their console like a 199€ chinese Android tablet. Got it.

great to hear. Nintendo attacking methods used almost exclusively for piracy and no longer putting any effort into the flaw allowing only home-brew.

regenhuber said:

damn, trying to be a smartass and stanning for Nintendo in one post.
Now I've seen it all.

Yeah, it's not Nintendo's fault that they designed their console like a 199€ chinese Android tablet. Got it.

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or maybe you want to shit on nintendo so much that you see anyone who doesn't think like you as a stan.

regenhuber said:

damn, trying to be a smartass and stanning for Nintendo in one post.
Now I've seen it all.

Yeah, it's not Nintendo's fault that they designed their console like a 199€ chinese Android tablet. Got it.

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This isn't a good post.

regenhuber said:

damn, trying to be a smartass and stanning for Nintendo in one post.
Now I've seen it all.

Yeah, it's not Nintendo's fault that they designed their console like a 199€ chinese Android tablet. Got it.

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You can pass as much blame to Nintendo as you want, but Nintendo wasn't the company that designed the nVidia chip with the flaw in question. And now Nintendo is making firmware changes that eliminate that gaping wide hole.

Get fucked, pirates.

mazi said:

since you seem to be in the know, are some people who haven't hacked their systems getting banned by mistake?

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The circumstances of Shinys ban is not known, he never really clarified if he'd done anything to that unit and he moved on without much fuss to a brand new system and transfered his account, he's not been banned since. Odds say he likely did *something* at some point.

No one else has been banned for doing nothing.

regenhuber said:

damn, trying to be a smartass and stanning for Nintendo in one post.
Now I've seen it all.

Yeah, it's not Nintendo's fault that they designed their console like a 199€ chinese Android tablet. Got it.

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Explaining the facts of the situation to you is not stanning. It is indeed not Nintendo's fault that they purchased a known off the shelf part that many other companies use and have used, and that that part turned out to have an undiscovered major flaw.

If you don't want to understand this, then you don't really belong in this thread. You're just lashing out over being corrected and showing your ass.

Awesome! Would be even sweeter if the hacked switches get bricked!

mazi said:

if 95% of cars where used to run people over, i kinda think they'd be banned too.

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Point taken and I would be inclined to agree if we had any meaningful metric to determine how much damage piracy actually does. As said the one download =/= one lost sale is absolutely nonsensical. You are right that in some cases piracy probably did cause some platforms to struggle, I'm mainly thinking of the Dreamcast and maybe the PSP although I have my doubt that Nintendo Switch piracy in its current form warrants any huge concerns. We know the platform is healthy, software sales and attach rates are good and to pirate on the Switch you have to take quite a few risks and lose access to a ton of the consoles features which very likely pushes the pirating clientele more towards people that would pirate anyway.

Again don't get me wrong, I don't want to sweet talk piracy or say they should get a free pass on Era, the only reason I'm engaging in the discussion is because I hate that no normal discussion of emulation and homebrew can take place without someone bringing up piracy. Threads like this one are perfectly fine to discuss piracy and the morality of homebrew but if we have a thread about, let's say, Retroarch which is a great, useful and perfectly legal piece of software, eventually someone will indirectly label all Retroarch users as pirates which comes across as incredibly dubious, serves no purpose and stops any kind of meaningful discussion of the actual topic.

Vena said:

The circumstances of Shinys ban is not known, he never really clarified if he'd done anything to that unit and he moved on without much fuss to a brand new system and transfered his account, he's not been banned since. Odds say he likely did *something* at some point.

No one else has been banned for doing nothing.

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that's what i thought. if many people with unhacked system where getting banned, it would have been major news.

Hailinel said:

Get fucked, pirates.

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Can't be repeated often enough. And fuck their PR department, the concerned """""homebrew/ game preservation"""" fans, as well.

Toad King said:

It's code anyone can use as long as they follow the license. TX never even tried to adhere to it, and in fact obscured their code to try and hide their usage of the open-source code. And put in brick code for people trying to poke around at it. They are theives. They promote piracy. Stop defending them.

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I'm not defending them. In the part of my post that you seem to have forgotten to include, I specifically call then out for enabling piracy.

falcondoc said:

Awesome! Would be even sweeter if the hacked switches get bricked!

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Oniletter said:

Can't be repeated often enough. And fuck their PR department, the concerned """""homebrew/ game preservation"""" fans, as well.

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Makes me wonder why you're so violently against homebrew, as if others using it affected you in any way. Well, you do you, I guess.

Oniletter said:

Can't be repeated often enough. And fuck their PR department, the concerned """""homebrew/ game preservation"""" fans, as well.

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pathetic.

crookedaxis said:

pathetic.

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Disingenious people trying to cape for flatout piracy sites are pathetic, indeed!

guys, let's stop trying in this thread to equate (or defend) piracy to homebrew and vice versa. The update Nintendo passed down seems to have stopped piracy for the foreseeable future while still allowing actual home brew. This should be the best of both worlds for everybody but the most disingenuous.

Joey Ravn said:

I'm not defending them. In the part of my post that you seem to have forgotten to include, I specifically call then out for enabling piracy.

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You were defending them stealing code. That is the part I was referring to.