Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)

Kylo Rey · Nov 22, 2018

Famassu said:
Boo

Fucking

Hoo.

If you aren't a perv who enjoys 50000 year old loli dragons, then you have absolutely no need to be this defensive about this. No need to make yourself a victim when people criticize a few games of female objectification.

i'm not defensive about this, it was ankward for me to see this in the game (that's why i ship Nowi with the kid Donnel).
I'm defensive about the "fire emblem is bad, if you like thoses games , you are a Weinstein".
And that's what the OP is subtly saying by not naming the game but "hey you see that licence withe the 1000 year girl dragon?"

And it already started for FE Switch. We don't know if there will be wedding and kids (i don't think so) or just support conversations. But "it's in a school, so it's the teacher/student fantasy. Omg no, IS did it again! I won't buy it!"

Llyrwenne · Nov 22, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
you can criticise it as i do but not saying "everything in FE is against womens". I mean come on... Mechanics and gameplay in those games are great (not the story though). Why using Camilla or Nowi example to say "EVERYTHING" in FE is bad?
So if i love FE games i'm not a feminist because they had the stupid idea to make boobie sister character in it? I'm a misogyn ?

Kylo Rey said:
The problem is, making those playing those games in the republican or misoginy group.
I'm a teacher in sociology so believe me i know the difficulty of the social subjects and i teach to teenagers that "gender" aren't natural but social role.
Now, when i on this topic , i was thinking "hey it's gonna be interesting to discuss about how to represent womens better in videogame"
but no, you have the "loli 1000 year dragon" rant that make me feel unconfortable because for me it was like "Intelligent System are misogynist perverts. Don't buy their games, because if you do, you are one of them"

I liked Awakening and Fates. It has many flaws but Awakening is my GOTY 2013 over The Last of Us.
Am i a bad person?

Kylo Rey said:
well:

Kylo Rey said:
i'm not defensive about this, it was ankward for me to see this in the game (that's why i ship Nowi with the kid Donnel).
I'm defensive about the "fire emblem is bad, if you like thoses games , you are a Weinstein".
And that's what the OP is subtly saying by not naming the game but "hey you see that licence withe the 1000 year girl dragon?"

Stop this nonsense. Nobody here has said anything even remotely like that. You are arguing with a straw man.

Famassu · Nov 22, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
i'm not defensive about this, it was ankward for me to see this in the game (that's why i ship Nowi with the kid Donnel).
I'm defensive about the "fire emblem is bad, if you like thoses games , you are a Weinstein".
And that's what the OP is subtly saying by not naming the game but "hey you see that licence withe the 1000 year girl dragon?"

It's doing no such thing. It criticizes people who defend all of that and want franchises to be infused with that crap, not people who play these games despite the crappy aspects.

Kylo Rey · Nov 22, 2018

Famassu said:
It's doing no such thing. It criticizes people who defend all of that and want franchises to be infused with that crap, not people who play these games despite the crappy aspects.

buying it, is supporting that crap.

Marossi · Nov 22, 2018

Talking about a game that's soon to be released, it's such a shame that Zero Suit Samus has been oversexualized in Smash 4 and the trend continued for Smash Ultimate.

(Smash 4)

Smash Ultimate

You could argue that she already was sexualized from the moment she was introduced in Metroid. Smash 4 took it to next level by making her suit have a latex texture, giving her big butt and chest and giving her HEELS, fucking really? But hey, at least her chest got reduced in Ultimate (let's not mention that Nintendo actually received backlash for reducing her chest size, fucking ugh)

Such a badass character went from Space fighter/spy to a barbie doll who also happens to be a fighter.

God damn it, they better fix this shit with Metroid Prime 4.

Redcrayon · Nov 22, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
well:

You're talking about a post made in reaction to your own sweeping posts, that compares your love for a series/developer with FE's continued contribution to the subject matter of this thread. Not the ones you originally implied to have seen elsewhere.

i'm not defensive about this, it was ankward for me to see this in the game (that's why i ship Nowi with the kid Donnel).
I'm defensive about the "fire emblem is bad, if you like thoses games , you are a Weinstein".
And that's what the OP is subtly saying by not naming the game but "hey you see that licence withe the 1000 year girl dragon?"

The exact text from the OP is in below. It says nothing about 'if you like those games'. It says (Nowi is) 'designed by and for men to get their nasty rocks off'. You've managed to read 'if you draw or like sexualised child designs, you are awful' as 'If you like Fire Emblem, you are awful'. I'm not sure how. Loads of people like Fire Emblem (including me and lots of other regulars in this thread) without having taken that bizarre read of it. It's OK to like Fire Emblem and look forward to future games while also stating that you want any further elements like Nowi to die in a fire. If the next game has no such aspects, I'll gladly treat it as a fresh start for the series rather than holding past transgressions against it. Same goes for any JRPG that somehow manages to leave the anime space stripper designs behind. Not holding my breath, but I'm actually mildly optimistic about Three Houses.

i'm a sex-positive feminist. that means i support women's right to control over their own bodies without judgement. that does not extend to 1000 year old loli dragons designed by and for men to get their nasty rocks off.

Kylo Rey · Nov 22, 2018

Haee said:
Talking about a game that's soon to be released, it's such a shame that Zero Suit Samus has been oversexualized in Smash 4 and the trend continued for Smash Ultimate.

(Smash 4)

Smash Ultimate

You could argue that she already was sexualized from the moment she was introduced in Metroid. Smash 4 took it to next level by making her suit have a latex texture, giving her big butt and chest and giving her HEELS, fucking really? But hey, at least her chest got reduced in Ultimate (let's not mention that Nintendo actually received backlash for reducing her chest size, fucking ugh)

Such a badass character went from Space fighter/spy to a barbie doll who also happens to be a fighter.

God damn it, they better fix this shit with Metroid Prime 4.

I don't play metroid games, but there was a game with samus without his "metroid suit" , but without zero suit samus? I mean with normal clothes?

Syril · Nov 22, 2018

Kylo Rey, it's probably not a good idea to come in here making a bunch of bad faith arguments about opinions of Fire Emblem when the thread you did about that ended with

User Banned (1 Week): Creating a thread with the intention of driving a bad faith debate about sexualization

Oddish1 · Nov 22, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
I don't play metroid games, but there was a game with samus without his "metroid suit" , but without zero suit samus? I mean with normal clothes?

Yeah, Other M.

EDIT: She wears other non-zero suit outfits in other game endings, but they were still fairly fanservicey. I think Other M is the only one that shows her wearing a regular outfit.

Kylo Rey · Nov 22, 2018

Redcrayon said:
You're talking about a post made in reaction to your own sweeping posts, that compares your love for a series/developer with FE's continued contribution to the subject matter of this thread. Not the ones you originally implied to have seen elsewhere.

The exact text from the OP is in below. It says nothing about 'if you like those games'. It says (Nowi is) 'designed by and for men to get their nasty rocks off'. You've managed to read 'if you draw or like sexualised child designs, you are awful' as 'If you like Fire Emblem, you are awful'. I'm not sure how. loads of people like Fire Emblem (including me and lots of other regulars in this thread) without having taken that bizarre read of it.

I don't buy this. The purpose is to create some kind of "shame" stuff for playing it.
I play as Mario, Lucina, Duck Hunt , Sonic and Zero Suit Samus in smash.
And now i feel bad because i play her so i support her "sexy suit". Sorry but this is how those posts makes me feels.

Kylo Rey · Nov 22, 2018

Syril said:
Kylo Rey, it's probably not a good idea to come in here making a bunch of bad faith arguments about opinions of Fire Emblem when the thread you did about that ended with

User Banned (1 Week): Creating a thread with the intention of driving a bad faith debate about sexualization

Well my topic was mostly about defending IS. Saying that they made mistakes with Nowi or Camilla or Elise. But also saying that judging their last FE Game (not heroes...) they are not a bunch of pervert devloppers that want to do an hentai game.

Marossi · Nov 22, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
I don't buy this. The purpose is to create some kind of "shame" stuff for playing it.
I play as Mario, Lucina, Duck Hunt , Sonic and Zero Suit Samus in smash.
And now i feel bad because i play her so i support her "sexy suit". Sorry but this is how those posts makes me feels.

Do you play Zero Suit Samus for her gameplay and the combos she can do? Yeah? Then you have nothing to be ashamed for.

If you are only playing her because "she's hot" you're part of the problem.

Kylo Rey · Nov 22, 2018

Haee said:
Do you play Zero Suit Samus for her gameplay and the combos she can do? Yeah? Then you have nothing to be ashamed for.

If you are only playing her because "she's hot" you're part of the problem.

Well as a teenager in Brawl i can't say i didn't played her because she was ugly. But that's how i find her speed moves and combo awesome and since smash 4 i don't choose her because she's attractive, but because i like speed characters and combo (but i don't like Fox/Falco).

Redcrayon · Nov 22, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
I don't buy this. The purpose is to create some kind of "shame" stuff for playing it.
I play as Mario, Lucina, Duck Hunt , Sonic and Zero Suit Samus in smash.
And now i feel bad because i play her so i support her "sexy suit". Sorry but this is how those posts makes me feels.

Sorry, but 'how you feel' is fuck-all compared to how many women and girls feel when a huge portion of the major young female characters in the genres they like are dressed like a stripper, whether they are barely an adolescent, a warrior, a priestess or whatever. It's endemic. I don't know how you can read the OP, fail to see the raw anger and frustration that has underpinned this discussion for over a year and still think people should consider your feelings becuase railing against sexualised designs makes you feel uncomfortable. This is maybe the wrong thread for you if you feel that way.

It's not a matter of buying it, the OP flat-out doesn't say what you've interpreted it as saying.

Famassu · Nov 22, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
buying it, is supporting that crap.

It does support it to some degree but nowhere does the OP call everyone who buys these a perv or that IS people are all the devil and they cannot make a good game to save their lives anymore..

Yeah, there is a point of "could you maybe put your money where your mouth is", since money to these companies pockets doesn't entice them to take a look at what they are doing wrong, but ultimately the bigger point is the criticism of people who vehemently defend all of that crap, who misconstrue the arguments women/feminists make, who blow up criticism as censorship etc.

Again, stop making yourself or IS a victim here. They deliberately put those things in the game. They've even doubled down on it with Heroes. They deserve all the criticism of it.

Marossi · Nov 22, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
Well as a teenager in Brawl i can't say i didn't played her because she was ugly. But that's how i find her speed moves and combo awesome and since smash 4 i don't choose her because she's attractive, but because i like speed characters and combo (but i don't like Fox/Falco).

There you have it. Also, you can still enjoy something while accepting the criticism, I also love playing as ZSS but I still condone and will condone her looks until something is made. You can still enjoy something while accepting criticism for what you enjoy.

Also you mentioned something interesting for me "As a teenager". It's probably no secret that many of these oversexualized characters try to pry on horny teenagers who are having their first high influx of testosterone, I feel like teenagers don't have much guilt for enjoying it, they don't know better. The fucking disgusting shit is when the company tries to pry on these teenagers and also when the same teenagers grow up to +20 years old and can't see what's wrong with a design like that (ZSS).

Biestmann · Nov 22, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
I don't buy this. The purpose is to create some kind of "shame" stuff for playing it.
I play as Mario, Lucina, Duck Hunt , Sonic and Zero Suit Samus in smash.
And now i feel bad because i play her so i support her "sexy suit". Sorry but this is how those posts makes me feels.

As a sociologist, you should be able to differentiate between micro and macro level. We're discussing trends here and therefore the latter. We're criticizing designs and tropes, yes, but mostly for the volume at which they appear in games.

While I personally think a 1000 year old loli dragon wearing skimpy clothing is detestable, what I really take issue with is how widespread this trope has become. FE is a prominent game with many fans even among ourselves, so of course it becomes the target of the discussion. But it is just an example among many, and you know this. Do you collect and defend videogames that feature loli dragons, or do you simply happen to enjoy a game in which that trope is used? It's the latter, and hence you really have nothing to be defensive about.

Kylo Rey · Nov 22, 2018

Redcrayon said:
Sorry, but 'how you feel' is fuck-all compared to how many women and girls feel when a huge portion of the major young female characters in the genres they like are dressed like a stripper, whether they are barely an adolescent, a warrior, a priestess or whatever. It's endemic. I don't know how you can read the OP, fail to see the raw anger and frustration that has underpinned this discussion for over a year and still think people should consider your feelings becuase railing against sexualised designs makes you feel uncomfortable. This is maybe the wrong thread for you if you feel that way.

It's not a matter of buying it, the OP flat-out doesn't say what you've interpreted it as saying.

for me it is.
If you buy smash or FE, then you are indirectly a supporter and sending an economic signal that you want attractive characters with cleavage in fight or strategy games. Even if you don't think this.

djinn · Nov 22, 2018

I'm laughing that everyone was having quiet conversation about Cammie finally having pants when suddenly BOOM! In walks Kylo Ren shouting, "WHAT ABOUT MY 1000 YEAR OLD LOLIS, HUH?!"

Amiibola · Nov 22, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
for me it is.
If you buy smash or FE, then you are indirectly a supporter and sending an economic signal that you want attractive characters with cleavage in fight or strategy games. Even if you don't think this.

Dude. Stop it. Now.

Kylo Rey · Nov 22, 2018

Famassu said:
They deserve all the criticism of it.

Doesn't mean some need to already hang the next game since we don't know very much about.

djinn said:
I'm laughing that everyone was having quiet conversation about Cammie finally having pants when suddenly BOOM! In walks Kylo Ren shouting, "WHAT ABOUT MY 1000 YEAR OLD LOLIS, HUH?!"

You should just read the discussion because i never said this and i don't like this kind of stuff.

Biestmann · Nov 22, 2018

djinn said:
"WHAT ABOUT MY 1000 YEAR OLD LOLIS, HUH?!"

storaføtter · Nov 22, 2018

I think Kylo lacks an understanding of exaggeration. Unable to comprehend the frustration a lot of women feel when men and others come in to "overexplain" and cherry pick stuff to defend their favourite series.
No one equated lovers of Fire Emblem to a degree of "Weinstein" as far as I have been reading the thread. If you are so proud of your sociology degree you should not read too much into what the OP said by drawing such extreme conclusions.

Some people boycott games with some questionable sexist portrayals of women while others still play the game but criticize the problematic themes and art. You see people doing both. It is mostly a discussion and not equating people as predators. I find your arguments and outrage, disingenuous. Exaggerating and misinterpreting what people are actually talking about here.

You should maybe think more broader about this issue and not take it as a personal insult due to what some people "might" have "said".

djinn · Nov 22, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
You should just read the discussion because i never said this and i don't like this kind of stuff.

Ahahaha! Relax, I'm teasing. It's still a funny image, I can't stop smiling at the thought.

Kylo Rey · Nov 22, 2018

storaføtter said:
I think Kylo lacks an understanding of exaggeration. Unable to comprehend the frustration a lot of women feel when men and others come in to "overexplain" and cherry pick stuff to defend their favourite series.
No one equated lovers of Fire Emblem to a degree of "Weinstein" as far as I have been reading the thread. If you are so proud of your sociology degree you should not read too much into what the OP said by drawing such extreme conclusions..

About that

Last week i was teaching about salary inequality and inequality in politics power (for example our elections and few womens that have a good position in an enterprise).
At the end of the class, one guy said that he understand there is inequality and it's bad, but he felt bad about it because he felt ashamed to be a "man" because he's not responsible for what happened to womens earlier or now. I just explained to him that now he's in a generation of men that will understand this and that the gender inequality came from the burden of many decades of awful politics and decisions that separate mens and womens. And now stuff are finally in change since #metoo.
But i couldnt stop thinking about this after the class. He was ashamed. And he's not responsible but many videos on youtube or the news made him feel that because he's a man he's a bad person.

I'm not saying the feminist movement isn't right, i support them. Just saying that sometimes, it may create some...disconfort to people who didn't choose this situation.
That's what the rant against FE made me feel about.

I

Redcrayon · Nov 22, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
for me it is.
If you buy smash or FE, then you are indirectly a supporter and sending an economic signal that you want attractive characters with cleavage in fight or strategy games. Even if you don't think this.

The best way to send information to companies about what you do/dont like is to actually tell them, specifically. Buying or not buying something says nothing as theres loads of potential reasons in play. Switch's popularity and the increased production values and accessiblity of the lack of permadeath in FE Phoenix mode for a start. I very much doubt Nintendo needs to interprete Smash sales to make conclusions about what players like titty designs when they will have the raw data of character popularity from Switch online. Same goes for FE Heroes. They know exactly how popular each design is without needing to guess just based on game downloads.

Scrooge McDuck · Nov 22, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
The problem is, making those playing those games in the republican or misoginy group.
I'm a teacher in sociology so believe me i know the difficulty of the social subjects and i teach to teenagers that "gender" aren't natural but social role.
Now, when i on this topic , i was thinking "hey it's gonna be interesting to discuss about how to represent womens better in videogame"
but no, you have the "loli 1000 year dragon" rant that make me feel unconfortable because for me it was like "Intelligent System are misogynist perverts. Don't buy their games, because if you do, you are one of them"

I liked Awakening and Fates. It has many flaws but Awakening is my GOTY 2013 over The Last of Us.
Am i a bad person?

Hey.
Hey.

I like the Trails series. It's currently my most favorite JRPG series. It also have some thrash sexist female costume design. It also has some creepy perverted characterization. And I won't mince words when I criticize those aspects of the games. I do it because it's an issue that's important to me and I need to vent it out. I do it fully aware that I'm still buying it, ironically also supporting that distasteful aspects of the games, because contrary to what dismissive assholes like to say, there really is no other games.

In fact, you'd find that a lot of people here actually like many of the titles we put on blast, here. You'd notice that we actually rarely talk about franchises where the core selling point is overtly to titillate like Senran Kagura. Because we generally don't care enough for them.

Now you come here with your rant about people taking shots about "1000 years loli Dragons" and I have no idea what do you want of us? But Fire Emblem does have that "1000 years loli dragon". We do find distasteful. And the trope does keep cropping up in other franchise and media. Do you want us to stop criticizing this aspect of Fire Emblem? For what? So you wouldn't feel bad? Is that it? We just pretend to like things that make us feel bad so you could buy your games free of guilt?

Famassu · Nov 22, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
Doesn't mean some need to already hang the next game since we don't know very much about.

You should just read the discussion because i never said this and i don't like this kind of stuff.

IS doesn't need you defending them. They are big boys and girls responsible for Nintendo's biggest mobile money maker and a multimillion selling console franchise. Until they make something that doesn't pander to pervs, they DO have a lot to prove. They DO have to show that they are taking steps away from underage sexualization and overt objectification of women.

And a remake of an old game isn't a good indication of future projects. Congrats for them that they didn't add objectification to an already existing game that (I assume) didn't have it before. What matters is more that they can create a new game that they don't infuse with it.

Kylo Rey · Nov 22, 2018

Famassu said:
And a remake of an old game isn't a good indication of future projects. Congrats for them that they didn't add objectification to an already existing game that (I assume) didn't have it before. What matters is more that they can create a new game that they don't infuse with it.

wrong argument, they have created new characters for this game. They could add another boobie girl.

Marossi · Nov 22, 2018

Your example of the student who feels ashamed is just a example of a lack of maturity. It's to be expected with teenagers but a sign of someone being mature is acknowledging everything that is wrong with what they enjoy. I can bet you not even 5% of people play Smash only because of Zero Suit Samus absurd design, yet it's still something that's wrong with the game. Does every Smash player should feel ashamed because of it? Heck no, they are not playing for ZSS, if ZSS actually got a decent design it would not impact them negatively* at all since they are there for the Smash gameplay, and not because of some barbie doll. There's no such thing as "If I enjoy this game, then I should be ashamed because of this bad aspect of the game". It's perfectly fine to enjoy something while understanding that there's a problem with it.

Heck, just look at my avatar, I lost a Smash Ultimate bet, this should tell that I love Smash and yet I still can see everything that is wrong with it.

Also with the bolded part, it's not mutually exclusive. There are people who likes the Smash gameplay while also having their stripper to look at in the game. And that's when you can say that they are 100% wrong and that they are part of the problem.

storaføtter · Nov 22, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
About that

Last week i was teaching about salary inequality and inequality in politics power (for example our elections and few womens that have a good position in an enterprise).
At the end of the class, one guy said that he understand there is inequality and it's bad, but he felt bad about it because he felt ashamed to be a "man" because he's not responsible for what happened to womens earlier or now. I just explained to him that now he's in a generation of men that will understand this and that the gender inequality came from the burden of many decades of awful politics and decisions that separate mens and womens. And now stuff are finally in change since #metoo.
But i couldnt stop thinking about this after the class. He was ashamed. And he's not responsible but many videos on youtube or the news made him feel that because he's a man he's a bad person.

I'm not saying the feminist movement isn't right, i support them. Just saying that sometimes, it may create some...disconfort to people who didn't choose this situation.
That's what the rant against FE made me feel about.

I

I really do not see much resemblance to this and that situation. I think it is good that we men are able to feel bad for things that our ancestors and other fellow men are doing to women. However, none of it is meant to create a sense of guilt. Even if we feel guilt and cannot let it go. It is nothing compared to what women have to face every day for the rest of their lives. Most people are not telling men that they are bad because they are born male.

I think the Fire Emblem rant in here has been justified. I have followed the series for a long time and beyond the damsel in distress trope. I think it is rightful with the criticism related to the series after Awakening. However, I do not think anyone said that you are a bad person for enjoying the series. I do think enjoying these problematic fan services and portrayals of women while pretending that they are not evident, because of "few" examples represents a bad character, in my opinion. Yes you did not say that these things were good in the games, but you did dismiss much of the argument laid out in this thread by saying they are "just" few examples. Claiming that posters are trying to make you feel guilty about liking these games is not correct.

In the end, this shame you and others might feel about these games are self inflicted and nothing compared to the shame and problems women face due to these problematic themes and objectifications. This threads purpose of diverting attention to discussing these problematic themes is overall positive. The narrative is usually on the opposite spectrum among "gamers" and men in general.

Famassu · Nov 22, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
About that

Last week i was teaching about salary inequality and inequality in politics power (for example our elections and few womens that have a good position in an enterprise).
At the end of the class, one guy said that he understand there is inequality and it's bad, but he felt bad about it because he felt ashamed to be a "man" because he's not responsible for what happened to womens earlier or now. I just explained to him that now he's in a generation of men that will understand this and that the gender inequality came from the burden of many decades of awful politics and decisions that separate mens and womens. And now stuff are finally in change since #metoo.
But i couldnt stop thinking about this after the class. He was ashamed. And he's not responsible but many videos on youtube or the news made him feel that because he's a man he's a bad person.

I'm not saying the feminist movement isn't right, i support them. Just saying that sometimes, it may create some...disconfort to people who didn't choose this situation.
That's what the rant against FE made me feel about.

I

Turn that shame into something positive. If you feel shitty about some of the ways women are treated inequally, then make sure at least you will never be the cause of those inequalities. Criticism about the inequalities that a patriarchal society of hundreds or even thousands of years has created is not a criticism of every single man in existence. You're not bad just because you are a man.

Ackowledge the issue and move on in life taking that into account. Don't fight against women who tell of these inequalities. Lend support when women do voice their grievances about the inequalities.

Don't take every criticism of sexist men doing sexist things as an attack on yourself, if you are not doing those sexist things yourself. If you are doing those things, then take that criticism and the feeling of shame that it causes as a sign of some required introspection and change behaviour accordingly.

Platy · Nov 22, 2018

At this point I am just happy that Zero Suit Samus does not have boob sock =P

Kylo Rey said:
I'm not saying the feminist movement isn't right, i support them. Just saying that sometimes, it may create some...disconfort to people who didn't choose this situation.
That's what the rant against FE made me feel about.

The problem is really the feminist movement or the shitty thing that makes people expecting basic equality feel bad?

Both your student and you were not mad at feminism, you were mad at the system

It is like being mad at your glasses that now you can see the dirt that your myopia hided

Xaszatm · Nov 22, 2018

Haee said:
Talking about a game that's soon to be released, it's such a shame that Zero Suit Samus has been oversexualized in Smash 4 and the trend continued for Smash Ultimate.

(Smash 4)

Smash Ultimate

You could argue that she already was sexualized from the moment she was introduced in Metroid. Smash 4 took it to next level by making her suit have a latex texture, giving her big butt and chest and giving her HEELS, fucking really? But hey, at least her chest got reduced in Ultimate (let's not mention that Nintendo actually received backlash for reducing her chest size, fucking ugh)

Such a badass character went from Space fighter/spy to a barbie doll who also happens to be a fighter.

God damn it, they better fix this shit with Metroid Prime 4.

It annoys me so much that Ultimate, despite reducing her bust size and increasing the visible muscle density, gave her a boob and butt pose. Like, the one good thing about ZSS 4 appearance was that she was given an action pose rather than a pinup pose.

Marossi · Nov 22, 2018

Platy said:
At this point I am just happy that Zero Suit Samus does not have boob sock =P

It's not much when they doubled down on her latex suit and butt design, heck, just look at that artwork for Ultimate, her butt is almost leaving my screen through the left side (obvious exaggeration, but the point is made). Also her heels. WHY??? She's a fighter god damn it.

Xaszatm said:
It annoys me so much that Ultimate, despite reducing her bust size and increasing the visible muscle density, gave her a boob and butt pose. Like, the one good thing about ZSS 4 appearance was that she was given an action pose rather than a pinup pose.

This, holy shit, her artwork is so fucking backwards thinking.

"Let's reduce her chest" while also "Let's make a artwork that makes her butt and chest stand out"

Also her artwork in Smash 4 is not something great either, this "action pose" is more something as using her left thigh to stand out and accentuate a curved form with her butt. Let's not fool ourselves here.

Famassu · Nov 22, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
wrong argument, they have created new characters for this game. They could add another boobie girl.

AMAZING. CONGRATULATIONS TO INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS. NOW THEY DESERVE A MEDAL AND NO FURTHER DOUBTS OF FUTURE PROJECTS HAVING HORRIBLY DESIGNED FEMALE CHARACTERS.

Stop being so obtuse. Intelligent Systems deserves all the criticism and we aren't being unreasonable when we are doubtful about their future projects.

If IS proves us wrong with the next FE, AWESOME. Great that they have taken the criticism to heart. But they haven't earned that optimism.

Deleted member 41271 · Nov 22, 2018

What is it with men like Kylo Ren freaking out this much over ~evil women possibly judging him because he's into a game with loli dragons~.
You know, that you feel ~horribly judged for liking loli dragons~ should tell you something, Kylo. It's generally very telling that you feel attacked over something nobody actually said. Perhaps it's something you're insecure about because it's true.

I'm not saying the feminist movement isn't right, i support them. Just saying that sometimes, it may create some...disconfort to people who didn't choose this situation.

No, Kylo, the problem is that you're priorizing your discomfort over criticism of media over the discomfort of women with sexism. That you do so is deeply revealing.

If you keep making bad faith arguments to defend sexism and sexualization of lolis, and keep feeling attacked when somebody criticizes pedophilia and sexism, you should maybe consider if the problem isn't feminism, but your actions.

Kylo Rey · Nov 22, 2018

Machachan said:
What is it with men like Kylo Ren freaking out this much over ~evil women possibly judging him because he's into a game with loli dragons~.
You know, that you feel ~horribly judged for liking loli dragons~ should tell you something,

...wait
did i ever said i like loli dragons?

Amiibola · Nov 22, 2018

Machachan said:
What is it with men like Kylo Ren freaking out this much over ~evil women possibly judging him because he's into a game with loli dragons~.
You know, that you feel ~horribly judged for liking loli dragons~ should tell you something, Kylo. It's generally very telling that you feel attacked over something nobody actually said. Perhaps it's something you're insecure about because it's true.

Isn't this very assumming and extremely insulting to use agaisnt someone who doesn't know how to approach the issue and isn't sure about how to convey his feelings?

I doubt he even harbors ill intentions. This is just dogpiling.

Ferrs · Nov 22, 2018

Man, tell about being more concerned about what people may think about yourself (without no one actually saying shit) and some random ass dev than the core problem of this thread. Talk about some weird priorities.

Xaszatm · Nov 22, 2018

Haee said:
It's not much when they doubled down on her latex suit and butt design, heck, just look at that artwork for Ultimate, her butt is almost leaving my screen through the left side (obvious exaggeration, but the point is made). Also her heels. WHY??? She's a fighter god damn it.

This, holy shit, her artwork is so fucking backwards thinking.

"Let's reduce her chest" while also "Let's make a artwork that makes her butt and chest stand out"

Also her artwork in Smash 4 is not something great either, this "action pose" is more something as using her left thigh to stand out and accentuate a curved form with her butt. Let's not fool ourselves here.

I mean, compared to the other two pictures we have of her for Smash, it's like infinitely better, but yeah, it's not great. But I need these little victories, damnit. The reaction to this annoyed me to no end too. The fact that "nerfed boobs" became a meme because of this is so stupid. She's a fighter, not a pinup model! She should look muscular, not like a godamn waifu!

Deleted member 41271 · Nov 22, 2018

No, but you sure do keep acting as if people keep thinking of you as someone that loves em.

And you sure keep being angry about criticism of 10000 year old loli dragons in skimpy clothes.

Perhaps the two are related. If I keep being angry at criticism of jumping puzzles, and keep accusing people of accusing me of liking jumping puzzles, despite nobody doing so... perhaps I really do have hangups about jumping puzzles, no?

Isn't this very assumming and extremely insulting to use agaisnt someone who doesn't know how to approach the issue and isn't sure about how to convey his feelings?

If he doesn't know how to approach the issue, and yet keeps approaching it in the same way again and again, yet never notices it may not be the best approach, I feel fairly safe in doing the above, yeah. He's not going to realize that perhaps the problem if his own behavior if it's not pointed out to him.

Siggy-P · Nov 22, 2018

Xaszatm said:
It annoys me so much that Ultimate, despite reducing her bust size and increasing the visible muscle density, gave her a boob and butt pose. Like, the one good thing about ZSS 4 appearance was that she was given an action pose rather than a pinup pose.

I was wondering if I was crazy till I read your post. I could have swore the boibs and ass looked bigger in ultimate but no, like you say it's the pose is more sexualised.

Personally can't stand the existence of the zero suit. She should just have a basic military-ish undersuit like she did in the manga.

BossAttack · Nov 22, 2018

Machachan said:
What is it with men like Kylo Ren freaking out this much over ~evil women possibly judging him because he's into a game with loli dragons~.
You know, that you feel ~horribly judged for liking loli dragons~ should tell you something, Kylo. It's generally very telling that you feel attacked over something nobody actually said. Perhaps it's something you're insecure about because it's true.

No, Kylo, the problem is that you're priorizing your discomfort over criticism of media over the discomfort of women with sexism. That you do so is deeply revealing.

If you keep making bad faith arguments to defend sexism and sexualization of lolis, and keep feeling attacked when somebody criticizes pedophilia and sexism, you should maybe consider if the problem isn't feminism, but your actions.

Bad faith arguments and rigid stances are kind of his thing. Please, don't ever try to criticize LOST in his presence, that thread was a doozy.

Xaszatm · Nov 22, 2018

Siggy-P said:
I was wondering if I was crazy till I read your post. I could have swore the boibs and ass looked bigger in ultimate but no, like you say it's the pose is more sexualised.

Personally can't stand the existence of the zero suit. She should just have a basic military-ish undersuit like she did in the manga.

To be fair, the games never really did a good job of showcasing Samus without her power suit, giving her a bodysuit or a jumpsuit until the Zero Suit came along. The only game that shows her in anything else Other M and that game is a whole other can of worms...ok more like 100 cans of worms. Still, the Metroid Mangas (there are multiple of them) have usually been a lot better at the whole "portray Samus as the badass" both with and without the suit.

Deleted member 18021 · Nov 22, 2018

Boy, I sure miss old Samus.

Deleted member 41271 · Nov 22, 2018

BossAttack said:
Bad faith arguments and rigid stances are kind of his thing. Please, don't ever try to criticize LOST in his presence, that thread was a doozy.

...I am literally sitting on my hands now after seeing this, because I watched LOST, and I- No, no, I mustn't. But the isl- No, I mustn't! But when Ben- NO! I mustn't!

MochaKoffee said:
Boy, I sure miss old Samus.

You and me both :(
OtherM even reduced her height....

Marossi · Nov 22, 2018

I feel like ZSS skin-tight suit actually fits with her character since she's inside a armor and she needs cloth beneath the armor. Skin-tight makes the most sense for the conditions she is in. But god damn if the designs on Smash 4/Ultimate are horrible.

Her Smash Brawl artwork is also really bad since she's actually in a pinup pose showing butt and chest. But the elements in itself is actually not that bad. The worst thing is the accentuated butt-crack by the Suit. But look at it, no latex suit bullshit, her heels are actually reasonable, and her ingame-model doesn't actually have exaggerated butt and chest. Also her face is way more human in Brawl than the doll-looking one in Smash 4/Ultimate.

MochaKoffee said:
Boy, I sure miss old Samus.

This is the dream Samus, the one who actually gives power to woman and show how much more badass they can be compared to man.

Kylo Rey · Nov 22, 2018

BossAttack said:
Bad faith arguments and rigid stances are kind of his thing. Please, don't ever try to criticize LOST in his presence, that thread was a doozy.

oh come on...Seriously? What's next?
Westworld? Assassin's Creed? Super Mario Odyssey? Seriously BossAttack if you have some grief against me , do it on DM.

As for the discussion i already explain i felt unconfortable with some characters on FE earlier on this topic. So i still don't understand what proves i like loli stuff or big breasts girls in games.

BossAttack · Nov 22, 2018

Kylo Rey said:
oh come on...Seriously?

Do you or do you not believe LOST is the GOAT show that had an amazing ending that made perfect sense?

WALT!!!!!!

Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)

Hopes and Dreams SAVE the World

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