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texhnolyze

Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,300
Indonesia
So, that DOA Xtreme 3 thread is locked, can we get this straight?

Here's the mod's closing statement:
The sexualisation of minors is not tolerated here, and discussions like this one invariably end poorly and please no one. We do not believe this thread will be different, and so it has been locked.
Does it mean that discussions about that game and the previous version of the game is banned now in Resetera? Are they going to update the banned game list?
 

Icemonk191

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
You would think pedophilia would be something that we could agree is a bad thing but nope! And not only that but to try and normalize it? Fuck that.

And while I don't want to paint too large a brush, Japan is definitely one of the biggest problem areas when it comes to this. Japan obsession with sexualizing minors has pretty much killed my interest in anime and will probably kill my interest in Japanese games soon enough.
 

Hypron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,059
NZ
You would think pedophilia would be something that we could agree is a bad thing but nope! And not only that but to try and normalize it? Fuck that.

Something something respect the author's intent something something censorship something something

Now excuse me while I go whine about She-ra's new design and how it should be changed

/s in case it wasn't obvious ^^'

But yeah I do watch a lot of anime at the moment and trying to find ones that don't sexualise minors is like walking through a minefield lol. At this point I just google the name of the anime and look at the image results, if I see young girls I cross it out of my list.
 

Laiza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,171
So apparently I haven't played a heavily anime game in years. I don't know why, but after seeing the thread for Epic 7 on resetera I decided to give it a shot on my phone, and the first person that joined my party was her, and I was kind of taken aback.

46524155_10218312267777949_5883177976505303040_n.jpg


She is animated on all these info screens so that she is swaying, her breasts moving like they are underwater, and her skirt rippling, almost but not quite enough to go above that little triangle. That chest doesn't even look like it belongs to a human. At least she has a hand rest. When she walks her breasts move more than her legs (she floats).

I don't know what possessed me to download this game. I really should have figured it would be like this.
Gacha games are pretty low-hanging fruit at this point. It's really absurdly difficult to find a single example without blatant oversexualization. This case is particularly unfortunate as she's a major character and thus a constant eyesore throughout the entire story.

Amazingly, the game has a number of equally terrible or worse examples:
kCu0Ma2.jpg
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HX1L3xR.jpg
And yet, on the flip side, it also has some positive ones (albeit suffering from the usual samebody syndrome that basically every other gacha game suffers from):
zq3dJEV.jpg
317eA7s.jpg
ARIsN0T.jpg
It's so jarring that it borders on schizophrenic. At least they seem to have a more varied cast of artists than these games usually get, judging by the absurd chasm that exists between these designs. Still, one can only wonder why it's so hard to get men to understand why such oversexualized designs are inherently disrespectful - both to the viewing heterosexual male audience and to the prospective female player base.

At least the women in this case are written semi-competently. No damsels in distress and they have a large variety of personalities, so credit where credit is due. Somehow they also manage to avoid harem bullshit, unlike another game I could think of (*cough*Dragalia Lost*coughcough*), which is particularly strange in light of these designs. I admit that the game has taken me pretty well at this point despite my having to grit my teeth and power my way through the blatant pandering bullshit designs, which actually makes me angrier - imagine how much more reach they could have gotten if THAT wasn't so many players' introduction to the game world?!

Decent games getting mired in this crap is just the worst. It's one thing when it's a throwaway game built specifically for pandering - this is not one of those games. I have nothing left for it but to say damn the patriarchy!
 

Snormy

I'll think about it
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,140
Morizora's Forest
Gacha games are pretty low-hanging fruit at this point. It's really absurdly difficult to find a single example without blatant oversexualization. This case is particularly unfortunate as she's a major character and thus a constant eyesore throughout the entire story.

I do wish there was a gacha game I like and can get into. The constant sexualisation is really turning me away from some games and I outright don't even try others because of this. I recently started playing Fate Grand Order and it was a little less obvious at first but as I began adding random support characters (other players) per mission and saw some of the rare characters I am increasingly disappointed. So many characters with panties/bikini and such. Just my luck too that my free draw as a new player gives me a 4* hero that has a dick shaped opening in the chest area of her robe with the tip pointing to her crotch. Even more frustrating is that her ascension changers her image, first it makes her waist cloth slightly transparent of course then her final form seems to remove it entirely. -_- To say I'm disappointing would be an understatement and I went in with pretty low expectations. I can only hope there are some characters I like in this.
This is character I got.
Wm047jn.png


Another gacha game I play is Bang Dream Girls Band Party. It is a bit better I think as the ratio of decent costumes to dumb ones is a bit better I think. For story segments most are also in context, uniforms at school, band outfits on stage, etc. There only a few cards that I find outright bad, more so the splash art than anything else and I suppose I give this game a bit more leeway since it isn't combat related and dressing up for a stage performance is pretty much a thing. The characters and stories range from anime cute stuff to anime annoying stuff but is mostly harmless. I've been playing this one for a few months and it is definitely one of the better games but it stands in the whole idol/girl band thing so your mileage may vary. The sexualisation feels less forced upon you and blatant which makes it more jarring when a particularly bad one comes up I think. I won't link to the bad cards but at least each one has two images once fully leveled and one is usually better if a bit goofy.

wYXBFrh.png

F5Qm3nR.png

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VPChAvU.png

rPBhc7X.png

xQJf5oy.png

yfsZ9HC.png

ro8ay82.png

SsgBMqZ.png

YurTuDT.png
 

Mobyduck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,100
Brazil
On a separate note, and since I'm not sure it would make for a survivable thread, just saw this article over on Kotaku: "A Sexy Cyberpunk Dating Sim About (And By) Trans Folk." Very much NSFW as it contains explicit screenshots and descriptions, but I highly recommend taking a look into it (and the game). I like reading about these games that explore LGBT themes as someone who is somewhat new to all this. A bit unfortunate that they almost always end up being dating sums, but I guess there aren't many other genres to explore this kind of stuff.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,819
YALL!

IT HAPPENED!!!!

DseKkuQUUAA52bO.jpg


THEY GAVE CAMMY PANTS!!!!

Granted, this is a Jill crossover skin, but STILL! MONUMENTAL PROGRESS! When I saw the news, I thought FOR SURE they were going to use this version of Jill so they wouldn't break the streak.

e1305dc62c50bf7d08e69c8e3be4a9c1.jpg
 

Laiza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,171
It still weirds me out how much they inflated the entire female cast's breast sizes in SFV. Even under that sweater, Cammy is straight-up packing melons.

Such an unnecessary change.
 

KujoJosuke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,894
I'm bummed I missed the JoJo chat

Best part about Part 5's designs is any time you see someone complain about how ridiculous Fugo looks, with his swiss cheese clothes that show a ton of skin for no reason, just point out to them that's how women feel whenever they see what constitutes as a oversexualized "design".

Fugo is great though and I love his swiss cheese outfit.
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,429
The English Wilderness
So apparently I haven't played a heavily anime game in years. I don't know why, but after seeing the thread for Epic 7 on resetera I decided to give it a shot on my phone, and the first person that joined my party was her, and I was kind of taken aback.

46524155_10218312267777949_5883177976505303040_n.jpg


She is animated on all these info screens so that she is swaying, her breasts moving like they are underwater, and her skirt rippling, almost but not quite enough to go above that little triangle. That chest doesn't even look like it belongs to a human. At least she has a hand rest. When she walks her breasts move more than her legs (she floats).

I don't know what possessed me to download this game. I really should have figured it would be like this.
Since I've been assuming it for a while - for obvious reasons - I did a quick search on mobile gaming demographics and yeah, men make up over 70% of heavy spenders...

And we know how much money those heavy spenders pull in :/
 

Mars People

Comics Council 2020
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,231
I'm bummed I missed the JoJo chat

Best part about Part 5's designs is any time you see someone complain about how ridiculous Fugo looks, with his swiss cheese clothes that show a ton of skin for no reason, just point out to them that's how women feel whenever they see what constitutes as a oversexualized "design".

Fugo is great though and I love his swiss cheese outfit.
A lot of Araki's outfits are taken from real model outfits.
It's more bizarre that a lot of the Jojo clothes exist in the real world.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
I'm bummed I missed the JoJo chat

Best part about Part 5's designs is any time you see someone complain about how ridiculous Fugo looks, with his swiss cheese clothes that show a ton of skin for no reason, just point out to them that's how women feel whenever they see what constitutes as a oversexualized "design".

Fugo is great though and I love his swiss cheese outfit.

Be nice to the cardboard cutout of my cheese boy.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Tangentially related to talk of gacha games and their 'Christmas underwear' pics of the women vs guys in full outfits, Marks and Spencer is attracting some ire here for this display in their Nottingham store. 'Must-have outfits to impress' vs 'must-have fancy little knickers' pretty much sums up the gacha approach to seasonal outfits above.

X6LAuV.jpeg

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....cer-in-sexism-row-over-fancy-knickers-display
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
The shop's defence was
"We've highlighted one combination in our windows, which are part of a wider campaign that features a large variety of must-have Christmas moments, from David Gandy washing up in an M&S suit through to families snuggling up in our matching PJs.
Its (obviously) a bullshit defence considering that these two displays are arranged in juxtaposition with each other as a mirrored pair framed by window elements, the trees, the photos etc. The subtext being 'a bloke looking to impress someone at a Christmas event wears something smart, a woman buys underwear'.

It's a bit like an art director saying 'we have a huge range of characters, from kids with comedy weapons to guys in full plate, it's just purely coincidental that all the young female ones fight in revealing outfits, you're taking it out of context'. Context my arse. How hard would it have been to pair suits with suits and underwear with underwear.
 
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Minsc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,160
Or like, both genders* in both windows?

*both extreme ends of the gender ratio? You know what I mean...

Considering they do have a window that wasn't shown in the article with the same "Must have outfits to impress" tagline consisting similarly clothed women (I understand why it's not shown, because it doesn't matter if there's also a window with women dressed like the men in the men's panel, it's that the women in the skimpy underwear panel is next to the men's in business suits sending a horrible message), I think your suggestion is probably the best one, mixing the men and women in all three panels together and adding in men in thongs to make it all balanced.
 

esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,320
Considering they do have a window that wasn't shown in the article with the same "Must have outfits to impress" tagline consisting similarly clothed women (I understand why it's not shown, because it doesn't matter if there's also a window with women dressed like the men in the men's panel, it's that the women in the skimpy underwear panel is next to the men's in business suits sending a horrible message), I think your suggestion is probably the best one, mixing the men and women in all three panels together and adding in men in thongs to make it all balanced.
Not really balanced, considering history, but less tone-deaf.
 

Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,296
Man, watching Another and for the first several episodes everything is going extraordinarily well. No male gaze, normal clothes, the girl with huge boobs is actually covered...and then they had to do a fucking beach episode. God damnit. And they're middle schoolers to top it off. Plus, every girls boob size like fucking triples from what they usually are.
 

Kylo Rey

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
3,442
when on the OP message you already have the rant about the girly 1000 years dragon loli...
I mean i agree with OP but it's not fair to consider FE as an ecchi game.
FE SoV didn't had any waifu's or at least in sexual positions but hey, i guess Intelligent System is now seen as guys stucked in the hentai part of a library.
 

Eintopf

Member
Jul 8, 2018
792
UK
when on the OP message you already have the rant about the girly 1000 years dragon loli...
I mean i agree with OP but it's not fair to consider FE as an ecchi game.
FE SoV didn't had any waifu's or at least in sexual positions but hey, i guess Intelligent System is now seen as guys stucked in the hentai part of a library.
latest


Just because SoV is far better than the shit in the other 3DS entries doesn't make it perfect.
 

Azem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,014
I thought that was a chip on your shoulder, but I see now it is actually the whole tree. You poor dear.
 

Kylo Rey

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
3,442
latest


Just because SoV is far better than the shit in the other 3DS entries doesn't make it perfect.

So one CG in the game. ONE. WOW. I didn't remembered that scene.
How about past fire emblem before Awakening?
And i don't care if you despise Awakening and Fates because oversexualisation (and i agree with you on this point), the gameplay on both games was great.
But whatever. You will hate FE Switch anyway. Even if the trailers don't show any sign of big boobies characters or other stuff like that (if so, i would join you) , you will hate it and many here too. Because now, many don't believe in Intelligent System anymore.
And this is where i don't agree. You do one "camilla" in one game you are now doomed forever.

I agree with everybody on this topic. But i don't like the way IS is seen here now.
What next? If i preorder FE Switch i'm a perv?
 

Eintopf

Member
Jul 8, 2018
792
UK
So one CG in the game. ONE. WOW. I didn't remembered that scene.
How about past fire emblem before Awakening?
And i don't care if you despise Awakening and Fates because oversexualisation (and i agree with you on this point), the gameplay on both games was great.
But whatever. You will hate FE Switch anyway. Even if the trailers don't show any sign of big boobies characters or other stuff like that (if so, i would join you) , you will hate it and many here too. Because now, many don't believe in Intelligent System anymore.
And this is where i don't agree. You do one "camilla" in one game you are now doomed forever.
I don't despise them. They're fun to play (especially Conquest) but the characters, story and character design are pretty shit - especially with Fates. I don't want to hate the games. I want Three Houses to be good. I hope they keep the fanservice stuff in Heroes but I doubt it. But so many stuff could go wrong with TH. I doubt they're going to remove marriage because of how successful Fates and Awakening are and that's going to be creepy in an academy environment where the player will marry students with students, and students with teachers. And considering how Byleth, the protatagonist (and likely a customisable one) is a teacher, that's really going to make any waifu content with students creepy. Child units would be more likely to be removed than marriage, and hopefully it will be removed because thats going to make a creepy situation all the creepier.
I'd like to trust IS with this, but they haven't done anything to give me such confidence.
 

Deleted member 11093

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,095
YALL!

IT HAPPENED!!!!

DseKkuQUUAA52bO.jpg


THEY GAVE CAMMY PANTS!!!!

Granted, this is a Jill crossover skin, but STILL! MONUMENTAL PROGRESS! When I saw the news, I thought FOR SURE they were going to use this version of Jill so they wouldn't break the streak.

e1305dc62c50bf7d08e69c8e3be4a9c1.jpg
Or RE3 Jill, funnily enough RE3 is unlockable via the costume easter egg code. I'm very surprised that it wasn't the other way around.
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,023
So one CG in the game. ONE. WOW. I didn't remembered that scene.
How about past fire emblem before Awakening?
And i don't care if you despise Awakening and Fates because oversexualisation (and i agree with you on this point), the gameplay on both games was great.
But whatever. You will hate FE Switch anyway. Even if the trailers don't show any sign of big boobies characters or other stuff like that (if so, i would join you) , you will hate it and many here too. Because now, many don't believe in Intelligent System anymore.
And this is where i don't agree. You do one "camilla" in one game you are now doomed forever.

I agree with everybody on this topic. But i don't like the way IS is seen here now.
What next? If i preorder FE Switch i'm a perv?
Sexist elements will be criticized.

But if the game is good (and FEs are usually pretty good SRPGs), I'll definitely enjoy it. The two aren't incompatible.

You can enjoy something while criticizing some of its aspects.
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,414
Sorry, but what happened to FE has been nothing short of a travesty. It doesn't matter how things were before Awakening, those times have long passed.

I am sure the new entry will be a competent strategy RPG. That said, if it remains stuffed with all of the questionable elements of recent games, I'll boycott it and I will talk about my disgust openly. I've done the same for Soul Calibur, and I will every time I can.
 

Llyrwenne

Hopes and Dreams SAVE the World
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,209
So one CG in the game. ONE. WOW. I didn't remembered that scene.
How about past fire emblem before Awakening?
And i don't care if you despise Awakening and Fates because oversexualisation (and i agree with you on this point), the gameplay on both games was great.
But whatever. You will hate FE Switch anyway. Even if the trailers don't show any sign of big boobies characters or other stuff like that (if so, i would join you) , you will hate it and many here too. Because now, many don't believe in Intelligent System anymore.
And this is where i don't agree. You do one "camilla" in one game you are now doomed forever.

I agree with everybody on this topic. But i don't like the way IS is seen here now.
What next? If i preorder FE Switch i'm a perv?
Hey, can you maybe calm down a bit? Who are you even talking to?
You kinda just barged into this thread spewing hostilities at seemingly nobody in particular.
Criticism of a certain aspect of a work does not equal an attack on or moral judgement of those who enjoy that work.
It's entirely possible to enjoy media while still criticizing or acknowledging its problematic aspects.
 

Kylo Rey

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
3,442
Hey, can you maybe calm down a bit? Who are you even talking to?
You kinda just barged into this thread spewing hostilities at seemingly nobody in particular.
Criticism of a certain aspect of a work does not equal an attack on or moral judgement of those who enjoy that work.
It's entirely possible to enjoy media while still criticizing or acknowledging its problematic aspects.

I just saw that rant about "lolo 1000 year dragon" and yes i was kinda "oh come on...not again"
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
So one CG in the game. ONE. WOW. I didn't remembered that scene.
How about past fire emblem before Awakening?
And i don't care if you despise Awakening and Fates because oversexualisation (and i agree with you on this point), the gameplay on both games was great.
But whatever. You will hate FE Switch anyway. Even if the trailers don't show any sign of big boobies characters or other stuff like that (if so, i would join you) , you will hate it and many here too. Because now, many don't believe in Intelligent System anymore.
And this is where i don't agree. You do one "camilla" in one game you are now doomed forever.

I agree with everybody on this topic. But i don't like the way IS is seen here now.
What next? If i preorder FE Switch i'm a perv?

I spend more time complaining about Fire Emblem's recent character designs here than anyone else, and am very much looking forward to the next one as I also complimented the character designs of the leads from Three Houses in this very thread. You need to work on seperating criticism of aspects of a game with criticism of you personally. I don't take it personally when people lay into FE despite having bought every single one. This thread is full of people that love JRPGs, SRPGs and anime despite regularly putting pieces of art from them (and the trends they embody) up for criticism. Designs placing childlike characters in sexualised outfits deserves to be criticised to the ends of the fucking earth, and yet you seem to be worried that that will lead to be people's disillusionment in Intelligent Systems and blind disregard of the next one against any kind of evidence to the contrary. All I've seen is cautious discussion of the mechanics on show and optimism at the lack of sexualised designs so far.

Off the top of my head I think I've spent almost as much time talking about the shitty storytelling of Fates as much as I have Camilla and co's ridiculous platemail/lingerie outifts at this point.
 
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Kylo Rey

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
3,442
So were we, because again a man barges in here putting his love for a franchise over the concerns of women who suffer for it.

you can criticise it as i do but not saying "everything in FE is against womens". I mean come on... Mechanics and gameplay in those games are great (not the story though). Why using Camilla or Nowi example to say "EVERYTHING" in FE is bad?
So if i love FE games i'm not a feminist because they had the stupid idea to make boobie sister character in it? I'm a misogyn ?
 

Hypron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,059
NZ
Anyway, I feel like not being able to accept negative criticism about things you like denotes a lack of critical thinking. If you actually reflect about what you're consuming, you should be able to find positive and negative aspects to everything.

If you are able to look at things you like in a critical way, you will find it much easier to accept criticism from other people.

And I have to say that, personally, I find good discussions about the social implications of videogames much more interesting and intellectually stimulating than pretty much any other topic of discussion on this side of the forum, even if I don't personally participate much in those discussions.
 

Kylo Rey

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
3,442
Anyway, I feel like not being able to accept negative criticism about things you like denotes a lack of critical thinking. If you actually reflect about what you're consuming, you should be able to find positive and negative aspects to everything.

If you are able to look at things you like in a critical way, you will find it much easier to accept criticism from other people.

And I have to say that, personally, I find good discussions about the social implications of videogames much more interesting and intellectually stimulating than pretty much any other topic of discussion on this side of the forum.

The problem is, making those playing those games in the republican or misoginy group.
I'm a teacher in sociology so believe me i know the difficulty of the social subjects and i teach to teenagers that "gender" aren't natural but social role.
Now, when i on this topic , i was thinking "hey it's gonna be interesting to discuss about how to represent womens better in videogame"
but no, you have the "loli 1000 year dragon" rant that make me feel unconfortable because for me it was like "Intelligent System are misogynist perverts. Don't buy their games, because if you do, you are one of them"

I liked Awakening and Fates. It has many flaws but Awakening is my GOTY 2013 over The Last of Us.
Am i a bad person?
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
you can criticise it as i do but not saying "everything in FE is against womens".
Who said that? Can you pick a quote to argue against rather than raising straw men to argue against.

I mean come on... Mechanics and gameplay in those games are great (not the story though). Why using Camilla or Nowi example to say "EVERYTHING" in FE is bad?
Again, who said that? It's the aspects being discussed that are bad, and FE has a lot of them at the moment. Who is saying the series has nothing else of value?

So if i love FE games i'm not a feminist because they had the stupid idea to make boobie sister character in it? I'm a misogyn ?
Again, who said that? You seem to be imagining a black and white point to argue against and assigning it to a lot of people who have said no such thing.
Now, when i on this topic , i was thinking "hey it's gonna be interesting to discuss about how to represent womens better in videogame"
but no, you have the "loli 1000 year dragon" rant that make me feel unconfortable because for me it was like "Intelligent System are misogynist perverts. Don't buy their games, because if you do, you are one of them"
You seem to have read a lot into one line of criticism of a widely-criticised element (Nowi) of Fire Emblem Awakening. The context of the thread is about female character designs, it's really not a criticism of an element of game design that hasn't been shared a hundred times elsewhere, nor does it have a subtext of 'if you buy an Intelligent Systems game, you are automatically a mysogynist pervert'. I don't know how you can leap to that conclusion.
 
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Kylo Rey

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
3,442
Who said that? Can you pick a quote to argue against rather than raising straw men to argue against.


Again, who said that? It's the aspects being discussed that are bad, and FE has a lot of them at the moment. Who is saying the series has nothing else of value?


Again, who said that? You seem to be imagining a black and white point to argue against and assigning it to a lot of people who have said no such thing.

well:
So were we, because again a man barges in here putting his love for a franchise over the concerns of women who suffer for it.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
So one CG in the game. ONE. WOW. I didn't remembered that scene.
How about past fire emblem before Awakening?
And i don't care if you despise Awakening and Fates because oversexualisation (and i agree with you on this point), the gameplay on both games was great.
But whatever. You will hate FE Switch anyway. Even if the trailers don't show any sign of big boobies characters or other stuff like that (if so, i would join you) , you will hate it and many here too. Because now, many don't believe in Intelligent System anymore.
And this is where i don't agree. You do one "camilla" in one game you are now doomed forever.

I agree with everybody on this topic. But i don't like the way IS is seen here now.
What next? If i preorder FE Switch i'm a perv?
Boo


Fucking


Hoo.

If you aren't a perv who enjoys 50000 year old loli dragons, then you have absolutely no need to be this defensive about this. No need to make yourself a victim when people criticize a few games of female objectification and underage sexualization.
 
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