PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Post E3 2018

Iwao · Nov 21, 2018

Crusadernm said:
Saying sea of thieves will be the next pubg is more of an opinion though. Making a definitive statement like the next Xbox is stronger than ps5 is an entirely different beast. I predict the next xbox will be more powerful.

Go back and read that tweet. It was a definitive statement.

If this thread has been any indication, you want it to be more powerful and get far too excited at the mere idea that it could, rather than accept the possibility that they could be more or less identical in terms of specs. Jez has got enough stuff wrong about XBOX to make his claim here (that involves knowledge of Sony) very "ehh".

Gamer17 · Nov 21, 2018

XVerdena said:
What does penelo have to do with Jez? And why do you type like that? Am I talking to a 14 years old?

Penelo was more higher up that Jez and he was completely wrong. Jez has been wrong already many many times. U don't see where I m going with this?

English is not my first language(it's my 3rd language). And no I bet I m older than u

XVerdena · Nov 21, 2018

Gamer17 said:
Penelo was more higher up that Jez and he was completely wrong. Jez has been wrong already many many times. U don't see where I m going with this?

English is not my first language(it's my 3rd language). And no I bet I m older than u

You realize that Jez does not work for ms? He's just a journalist...

Gamer17 · Nov 21, 2018

XVerdena said:
You realize that Jez does not work for ms? He's just a journalist...

Does it matter when he has been wrong again and again ?he didn't even know what's inside xb1x (said it is not a jaguar CPU).how does he know what's inside ps5 and xbx2 when both haven't even been finalized ?

Deleted member 36493 · Nov 21, 2018

How far in depth will MS go into Scarlett at E3? I think it's a given that at the very least, it's getting a mention. But beyond that, what can we expect?

VX1 · Nov 21, 2018

Tonky said:
How far in depth will MS go into Scarlett at E3? I think it's a given that at the very least, it's getting a mention. But beyond that, what can we expect?

Same like with Scorpio at E3 2016? We got specs then,more or less...

FSavage · Nov 21, 2018

VX1 said:
I agree.I am only a bit worried that Sony doesn't decide to spend resources on some gimmicks like that rumor about screen in next dualshock for remote play,some VR stuff in every PS5 and whatnot.

Honestly don't think we'll have to worry about that too much.

Jeffram said:
There's a difference between what Microsoft wants and what Microsoft can get.

At the beginning of this generation, Xbox was a big client for AMD (ATI in the 360). Things are a lot different for the start of next generation such that AMD might favour Sony along with Sony's buying power affording Sony to have more performance for less money:

1. Sony buys 2x more AMD chips than Microsoft. That allows them to negotiate better terms for future projects. It also gives them more priority from a custom design standpoint. Bigger client = more effort. We heard that AMDs engineers are 70% allocated to PS5, which could be because of Sony's position and points an urgency around Sony's next APU.

2. Microsoft is talking a lot about cloud computing, and making big and loud steps to move in that direction. The more the market is on cloud computing, the less revenue AMD generates. AMD might be looking at Microsoft and seeing a client who is actively moving away from a sustained partnership.

Obviously Microsoft has more money to play with, but as you mentioned, they are spending it on many fronts and not generating reportable profits, which could limit their ability or appetite to take a big loss on hardware.

Not at all saying Sony will come out more powerful, I think it has to do with targeted price points than anything. But all things equal there's arguments for a power advantage either way. What we will likely get are very compatible systems.

For your second point, I think it's the opposite for MS. Who do you think will be supplying all the new processing chips for new xCloud server farms? I think these new streaming services (from both MS and Sony) is going to create a new boon for AMD's server business, on top of new consoles.

Nobunny said:
Totally agree, it would be very unlikely that Sony wouldn't keep the PS5 in the same overall ballpark power-wise. Taking the Pro as a recent example, Sony seems to have a pretty good idea on just what to focus it's silicone budget on to achieve pretty great results.

Yeah I just refuse to believe that Sony is cheapening out on console budget for next gen. Would be a huge mistake.

Gamer17 · Nov 21, 2018

Tonky said:
How far in depth will MS go into Scarlett at E3? I think it's a given that at the very least, it's getting a mention. But beyond that, what can we expect?

I think it depends on Sony and if they unveil ps5 before e3 or not . If they do, Ms will talk power and try to outdo sony.but if sony doesn't announce ps5 ,they also won't say anything

Kasey · Nov 21, 2018

Eh as long as Nextbox is a decent jump from XB1 I'll be happy.

I don't know shit about tech so this shit may as well be magic to me.

Aokiji · Nov 21, 2018

Ayra Sutoraifu said:
Less powerful then next xbox confirmed

Why did i go back to take a look at the old forum? Damn…

"i know it" roflcopter

Iwao · Nov 21, 2018

FSavage said:
I'm not saying that MS won't have the more powerful system, but I'm confident that if they want it, they'll have to pay a pretty penny to achieve it.

It's almost as though if they wanted it to happen, they would've had to somehow secure the devotion of "2/3rds of the talent on-hand for [AMD's] RTG to develop the next semi-custom solution". I'm a bit behind on this, but was that ever confirmed to be true?

MatthewTrujillo · Nov 21, 2018

Crusadernm said:
To make such a definitive statement like that shows that he might know something.. Hot damn this is exciting

No one can make a definitive statement like that especially if they have no idea what the competitions specs will be. He just might know what Scarlett's specs are but I highly doubt he knows what PS5 specs will be especially on the GPU side of things.

Golvellius · Nov 21, 2018

Gamer17 said:
Does it matter when he has been wrong again and again ?he didn't even know what's inside xb1x (said it is not a jaguar CPU).how does he know what's inside ps5 and xbx2 when both haven't even been finalized ?

Is there any proof that XB1X CPU is Jaguar?
The DF article that revealed the specs says "custom x86 cores". Wikipedia says "Scorpio Engine's CPU utilizes a custom platform designed to maintain compatibility with the Jaguar CPU of the original Xbox One, but with a 31% increase in performance; the custom platform is unrelated to AMD's current Ryzen architecture."
So where is the proof that XB1X has Jaguar cores?

XVerdena · Nov 21, 2018

Gamer17 said:
Does it matter when he has been wrong again and again ?he didn't even know what's inside xb1x (said it is not a jaguar CPU).how does he know what's inside ps5 and xbx2 when both haven't even been finalized ?

I don't know if he's right or wrong, neither if he really have info or not on this, I just wanted to point out that he's not a microsoft PR, and he's often a reliable source on xbox related stuff (ofc not always, he was wrong regarding scorpio's CPU). That's all, he's a nice guy on twitter.

FSavage · Nov 21, 2018

Iwao said:
It's almost as though if they wanted it to happen, they would've had to somehow secure the devotion of "2/3rds of the talent on-hand for [AMD's] RTG to develop the next semi-custom solution". I'm a bit behind on this, but was that ever confirmed to be true?

Lol I was more referring to console budget. I'm not sure though, I think someone here said that MS did most of their designing in-house. If that quote is true then maybe people at Sony realized that their own team was insufficient for what they wanted to achieve in terms of console design.

Jeffram · Nov 21, 2018

FSavage said:
For your second point, I think it's the opposite for MS. Who do you think will be supplying all the new processing chips for new xCloud server farms? I think these new streaming services (from both MS and Sony) is going to create a new boon for AMD's server business, on top of new consoles.

I disagree, Microsoft is not planning on having a cloud SOC for every active user. They are probably thinking that they can serve 20 or so average users from one SOC (a complete guess on my part, but it has to be somewhat high to make things financially viable). As much as they would want to they aren't going to gain 20x more users overnight. To me this means less APUs purchased to serve the same/expanded market. All of that being said, I'm not sure it's guaranteed that in the future they can't emulate on some other (non-AMD) chipset for their server needs.

BitsandBytes · Nov 21, 2018

Jeffram said:
I disagree, Microsoft is not planning on having a cloud SOC for every active user. They are probably thinking that they can serve 20 or so average users from one SOC (a complete guess on my part, but it has to be somewhat high to make things financially viable). As much as they would want to they aren't going to gain 20x more users overnight. To me this means less APUs purchased to serve the same/expanded market. All of that being said, I'm not sure it's guaranteed that in the future they can't emulate on some other (non-AMD) chipset for their server needs.

Not sure if you're talking about something else but didn't Microsoft announce with xCloud that each server rack is made up of 4 current Xbox One S consoles? Maybe later they do the same with Scarlett but imagine that will be a few years down the line.

FSavage · Nov 21, 2018

Jeffram said:
I disagree, Microsoft is not planning on having a cloud SOC for every active user. They are probably thinking that they can serve 20 or so average users from one SOC (a complete guess on my part, but it has to be somewhat high to make things financially viable). As much as they would want to they aren't going to gain 20x more users overnight. To me this means less APUs purchased to serve the same/expanded market. All of that being said, I'm not sure it's guaranteed that in the future they can't emulate on some other (non-AMD) chipset for their server needs.

I can see that happening in the long run with sufficiently powerful hardware (64 core threadripper-like CPUs could be used to run 8 games.. but no single GPU is powerful enough to run multiple games yet, I think. Maybe X360 games).

In the meantime it's this:

BitsandBytes said:
Not sure if you're talking about something else but didn't Microsoft announce with xCloud that each server rack is made up of 4 current Xbox One S consoles? Maybe later they do the same with Scarlett but imagine that will be a few years down the line.

Deleted member 12635 · Nov 21, 2018

Miniature Kaiju said:
Jez is basically a PR mouthpiece. I wouldn't take anything he says without a truckload of salt.

At least he is a mouthpiece with contacts into the inside of MS which gives it a little more weight.

DriftingSpirit · Nov 21, 2018

Colbert said:
At least he is a mouthpiece with contacts into the inside of MS which gives it a little more weight.

And how would he know about the PS5?

Socky · Nov 21, 2018

VX1 said:
And maybe they can just skip that E3 and bring 3rd parties to PSX in Sept/Oct...theoretically.

What I meant was, Sony reveal hardware and first-party launch titles (launch window anyway, say 12 months) in May, then third-parties will be free to show their PS5/NG games at E3, even if Sony aren't there. Of course they can show them anyway, but from Sony's POV, with PS5 now announced, those are PS5 games being shown at E3. Sometime in the fall Sony have a PSX where many games can be playable, only a month or two out from a holiday launch.

They still get a presence at E3 with third-parties - for free - while PS5 stays in the news and at events every few months over a reveal > launch period of just six months.

The X1 revealed late May; a presence at E3 with no effort or expense must be attractive, or maybe Sony just turn up at E3 3020, who knows? A pre-launch PSX would be popular, allow most/all of the launch games (inc. third-parties of course) to be playable and build fan excitement right before launch. There are many other ways it could happen, but this makes sense to me.

Deleted member 40133 · Nov 21, 2018

Socky said:
What I meant was, Sony reveal hardware and first-party launch titles (launch window anyway, say 12 months) in May, then third-parties will be free to show their PS5/NG games at E3, even if Sony aren't there. Of course they can show them anyway, but from Sony's POV, with PS5 now announced, those are PS5 games being shown at E3. Sometime in the fall Sony have a PSX where many games can be playable, only a month or two out from a holiday launch.

They still get a presence at E3 with third-parties - for free - while PS5 stays in the news and at events every few months over a reveal > launch period of just six months.

The X1 revealed late May; a presence at E3 with no effort or expense must be attractive, or maybe Sony just turn up at E3 3020, who knows? A pre-launch PSX would be popular, allow most/all of the launch games (inc. third-parties of course) to be playable and build fan excitement right before launch. There are many other ways it could happen, but this makes sense to me.

I love the Freudian slip

Deleted member 36493 · Nov 21, 2018

DriftingSpirit said:
And how would he know about the PS5?

MS has PS5 devkits

Miniature Kaiju · Nov 21, 2018

Next Halo will be a PS5 exclusive confirmed.

Kyoufu · Nov 21, 2018

You know you're information-starved when you're taking Jez's tweets seriously.

Not that I don't think MS won't be able to put out a more powerful console but

1) who gives a shit, they will need price parity with PS5 so the power gap can't be large enough to really matter

and

2) Jez doesn't know shit about the specs of PS5 to know definitively that Scarlett is more powerful. So dumb.

Aokiji · Nov 21, 2018

Man this place is starved for next gen info ppl are debating essentially whether or not a blogger has insider knowledge of the final specs of the PS5 & XBSc. Next year is going to be unbearable lmao

BradGrenz · Nov 21, 2018

FSavage said:
I can see that happening in the long run with sufficiently powerful hardware (64 core threadripper-like CPUs could be used to run 8 games.. but no single GPU is powerful enough to run multiple games yet, I think. Maybe X360 games).

In the meantime it's this:

AMD has dual Vega cards that support virtualized GPUs and could easily stream to 4-8 1080p clients depending on the game.

Kyoufu · Nov 21, 2018

Aokiji said:
Man this place is starved for next gen info ppl are debating essentially whether or not a blogger has insider knowledge of the final specs of the PS5 & XBSc. Next year is going to be unbearable lmao

We'll actually get leaks and stuff in 2019 so it should be better lol.

SharpX68K · Nov 21, 2018

I can hear the marketing for Xbox Scarlett now: POWER IS NOT A PROBLEM.

Aokiji · Nov 21, 2018

Kyoufu said:
We'll actually get leaks and stuff in 2019 so it should be better lol.

Until one set of specs leak first & people try & call it underpowered/overpowered without seeing the other XD

GUNDAM STARDUST · Nov 21, 2018

Jeffram said:
There's a difference between what Microsoft wants and what Microsoft can get.

At the beginning of this generation, Xbox was a big client for AMD (ATI in the 360). Things are a lot different for the start of next generation such that AMD might favour Sony along with Sony's buying power affording Sony to have more performance for less money:

1. Sony buys 2x more AMD chips than Microsoft. That allows them to negotiate better terms for future projects. It also gives them more priority from a custom design standpoint. Bigger client = more effort. We heard that AMDs engineers are 70% allocated to PS5, which could be because of Sony's position and points an urgency around Sony's next APU.

2. Microsoft is talking a lot about cloud computing, and making big and loud steps to move in that direction. The more the market is on cloud computing, the less revenue AMD generates. AMD might be looking at Microsoft and seeing a client who is actively moving away from a sustained partnership.

Obviously Microsoft has more money to play with, but as you mentioned, they are spending it on many fronts and not generating reportable profits, which could limit their ability or appetite to take a big loss on hardware.

Not at all saying Sony will come out more powerful, I think it has to do with targeted price points than anything. But all things equal there's arguments for a power advantage either way. What we will likely get are very compatible systems.

You know what MS uses to power their Azure servers? Intel and NVIDIA. I genuinely wonder if MS might go team green this gen.

RoninStrife · Nov 21, 2018

Tonky said:
"I don't know"

I don't think he knows how not to stir a rumor.

bsigg · Nov 21, 2018

GUNDAM STARDUST said:
You know what MS uses to power their Azure servers? Intel and NVIDIA. I genuinely wonder if MS might go team green this gen.

If Microsoft somehow managed to get an RTX core in the Scarlett for local ray tracing, that would be amazing. I highly doubt it will happen though

RoninStrife · Nov 22, 2018

bsigg said:
If Microsoft somehow managed to get an RTX core in the Scarlett for local ray tracing, that would be amazing. I highly doubt it will happen though

But didnt Lisa Su of AMD already say they are working with both Sony and MS for next gen and they lpok foward to beyond 2019 for growth, thats where we first got the 2020 release date rumor from, I think.

SharpX68K · Nov 22, 2018

TemplarDante said:
But didnt Lisa Su of AMD already say they are working with both Sony and MS for next gen and they lpok foward to beyond 2019 for growth, thats where we first got the 2020 release date rumor from, I think.

Yep, exactly.

klik · Nov 22, 2018

Is there any probability PS5 would have 2 chiplets each with 8 cores in total of 16 cores?

Deleted member 40133 · Nov 22, 2018

klik said:
Is there any probability PS5 would have 2 chiplets each with 8 cores in total of 16 cores?

If I recall, the gains going to 16 are quite minimal for gaming applications. Remember, it wasn't too long ago when even 8 cores weren't fully properly utilized by devs

TheTruthofKayle · Nov 22, 2018

Gamer17 said:
Nothing is more impressive than presistence of team 2019 haha . I thought u guys would give up by now

Never!))
Seriously...I expect them to show the PS5 in 2019....that's for sure ...don't think that at this point they could arrive on the market in late 2019.....probably is a q1 2020 ....but change nothing

BreakAtmo · Nov 22, 2018

console lover said:
If I recall, the gains going to 16 are quite minimal for gaming applications. Remember, it wasn't too long ago when even 8 cores weren't fully properly utilized by devs

Really? I thought it would always simply come down to, if you give the devs 16 cores then they will program their game to use 16 cores.

Joystick · Nov 22, 2018

Ōkami Haundo said:
Plot twist! Sony announces the PS5 at TGA this year for a Fall 2019 release date. Geoff Keighly is so satisfied with the surprise that he retires from the industry and cancels all future shows.

Reads like a "chance" card in Video Game Industry the board game.

FSavage · Nov 22, 2018

BradGrenz said:
AMD has dual Vega cards that support virtualized GPUs and could easily stream to 4-8 1080p clients depending on the game.

Ah TIL! Thanks for the info. I wonder why MS is using Xbox one S boards for their xCloud service then. Maybe a stopgap?

Deleted member 40133 · Nov 22, 2018

BreakAtmo said:
Really? I thought it would always simply come down to, if you give the devs 16 cores then they will program their game to use 16 cores.

https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/80243/games-able-to-use-4-core-cpus-properly/80244

This post is better able to explain than I. But to drive home the point, it's from 2014 and debating whether 4 cores is worth it for gaming let alone 8 or 16. Things change of course

Cthulhu_Steev · Nov 22, 2018

TemplarDante said:
Whats Jez honestly supposed to say?
"No, competition is stronger"...?
Lets wait for dev white paper leaks on specs.
Besides... between the " 99% sure X1X doesn't use Jaguar" or "XB1X is 399 dollars", I wouldn't believe anything he says in this regard.

'''sorry, I have no idea at this time. I'll let you know when there's some concrete details"

That would be a start.

modiz · Nov 22, 2018

TemplarDante said:
But didnt Lisa Su of AMD already say they are working with both Sony and MS for next gen and they lpok foward to beyond 2019 for growth, thats where we first got the 2020 release date rumor from, I think.

She actually said a few weeks something about how MS and Sony have to choose or something along these lines, implying that at least one of them still didnt decide who to partner with, which is most likely MS. However if MS goes Nvidia, the next xbox will be very costly.

Deleted member 40133 · Nov 22, 2018

Cthulhu_Steev said:
'''sorry, I have no idea at this time. I'll let you know when there's some concrete details"

That would be a start.

I'm going to preface this by saying their is nothing wrong with the way In which Jez may be privy to insider info. But there's two ways insider info is gotten 1) genuine detective work 2)being in good with a company, aka they know you won't make them look bad so they're okay throwing you a bone/ using you as pr.

Jez probably falls in category two

Cthulhu_Steev · Nov 22, 2018

console lover said:
I'm going to preface this by saying their is nothing wrong with the way In which Jez may be privy to insider info. But there's two ways insider info is gotten 1) genuine detective work 2)being in good with a company, aka they know you won't make them look bad so they're okay throwing you a bone/ using you as pr.

Jez probably falls in category two

Wasn't he the guy that 'leaked' the figures when MS had some NPD wins? He's MS PR by any other name, even if he does apparently criticise them- even the Official PlayStation used to criticise Sony

BreakAtmo · Nov 22, 2018

console lover said:
https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/80243/games-able-to-use-4-core-cpus-properly/80244

This post is better able to explain than I. But to drive home the point, it's from 2014 and debating whether 4 cores is worth it for gaming let alone 8 or 16. Things change of course

Isn't that for PC games that need to be able to run on various configurations, some as low as a dual core or quad core system? A game/port made for a specific console with one 16 core configuration would be different, I think.

Putty · Nov 22, 2018

"I know it". Only you don't.

TheThreadsThatBindUs · Nov 22, 2018

Miniature Kaiju said:
Jez is basically a PR mouthpiece. I wouldn't take anything he says without a truckload of salt.

Guy likely knows zilch about PS5.

console lover said:
If I recall, the gains going to 16 are quite minimal for gaming applications. Remember, it wasn't too long ago when even 8 cores weren't fully properly utilized by devs

Well that's unsurprising since Devs have never had access to a full 8 cores because of the OS reservation.

I think the premise that going above 8 cores provides little gain is inherently flawed when talking about consoles. Games have never been coded with more than 7 cores in mind anyway, and going above that doesn't inherently offer little gain, it just requires more dev effort to restructure their game code to take advantage of the greater parallelism available.

Higher singled threaded CPU performance with less cores has only been the preference because it requires less developer effort for maximising performance gains.

Deleted member 40133 · Nov 22, 2018

TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
Well that's unsurprising since Devs have never had access to a full 8 cores because of the OS reservation.

I think the premise that going above 8 cores provides little gain is inherently flawed when talking about consoles. Games have never been coded with more than 7 cores in mind anyway, and going above that doesn't inherently offer little gain, it just requires more dev effort to restructure their game code to take advantage of the greater parallelism available.

Higher singled threaded CPU performance with less cores has only been the preference because it requires less developer effort for maximising performance gains.

You are correct of course. But I believe that alone would make my argument for me. You'd arguably get more ban for your buck from higher clock than higher cores. Cerny has always talked about making a devs life easier when it comes to making games

PS5 and next Xbox launch speculation - Post E3 2018

When will the first 'next gen' console arrive?

H2 2019

H1 2020

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