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Red Dead Redemption II ~*SPOILER THREAD*~

sappyday

sappyday

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,782
What a long game but I really did love it. However, the epilogue is stupidly long, they could have cut some of those missions out. It's funny I overall enjoyed RDR2 more than RDR1 and that includes with the main characters. Arthur is a much better character than John that I was feeling the same way post RDR1 where I wish I had kept a save file as Arthur.

Question, how different is the story towards the end if you go full negative honor? I felt like the story was designed with Arthur being good in mind, but I'm not sure if they're just more clever about it this time around.
 
Atomic Playboy

Atomic Playboy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,899
Portland, OR
sappyday said:
What a long game but I really did love it. However, the epilogue is stupidly long, they could have cut some of those missions out. It's funny I overall enjoyed RDR2 more than RDR1 and that includes with the main characters. Arthur is a much better character than John that I was feeling the same way post RDR1 where I wish I had kept a save file as Arthur.

Question, how different is the story towards the end if you go full negative honor? I felt like the story was designed with Arthur being good in mind, but I'm not sure if they're just more clever about it this time around.
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If you have low honor, you don't get to see the sunrise; Micah just shoots you.
 
Ostinatto

Ostinatto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,542
Guys, what is the name of that Hidden trophy? cant find it anywhere

trophiecxicc.jpg
 
Cugel

Cugel

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 7, 2017
4,412
Once you reach the epilogue are you stuck as John ? How does the endgame work ? Can you explore the whole map and do all activities, just with a different character ?
 
tiebreaker

tiebreaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,121
Yeah, the Epilouge is too long. Still, kinda nice to see Charles and Sadie again.

And Dutch has really made a habit of walking off. Like, seriously.
 

Deleted member 36493

User requested account closure
Member
Dec 19, 2017
4,982
More than once during the epilogue I completely forgot about Arthur for a few minutes and thought I had been playing the whole game as John. Kind of weird.
 

Deleted member 11069

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,001
Just finished the main story.
Someone in the OT wrote this pretty early but I can agree, its a 10/10 and a 2/10 game at different times.
Love the world building and characters. Disliked lots of the missions and how restrictive it gets. The controls, the endless horse riding. All of this has been written 28282 times..
I need a break before "bringing goods to Ranch Soandso" as John is something I want to do with my spare time.
 
ctcatsby

ctcatsby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
569
USA
Going into the Epilogue, I was disappointed we didn't get to play as Sadie. By the time the credits rolled, I was a little glad to be rid of her. I don't know if her character was too over the top, but I do think the performance was. She was too exaggerated, almost cartoonish. Arthur also sounded like a cartoon cowboy on occasion throughout the game, but he also had many quieter, subdued moments that gave him great range.

Really, the VAs in this game were all over the place. There were some incredible performances and characters who sounded like real human beings, but there were also a lot of typical goofy Rockstar-types.
 
chocolate

chocolate

Member
Feb 28, 2018
3,637
Has anyone been able to find Arthur's and Grimshaw's grave? I know they're out there... but where exactly?

Also, any word on what happened to Karen?



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WiWi said:
I don't really understand why Micah is the rat. I mean, what's in it for him ? What was his plan ? Rat on everyone so as to be free ?

And why did Dutch still trust him ? And why did he kill him in the end ? All of that was strange to me.
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Yes. Micah said it himself, he's a survivor. He does what he needs to do stay alive and survive.

Can't answer the question about Dutch. He struck me as a lost man by the end, so maybe he got lonely and just wanted to team up with someone again to appear relevant? I think it would've worked better if John killed Micah single handedly without Dutch being there.
 
LightInfa

LightInfa

Member
Oct 27, 2017
118
Want to do a second playthrough dishonorably to get the bad ending but not sure I can handle putting Arthur through all that pain without any hope of redemption.
 
Clay

Clay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,107
WiWi said:
I don't really understand why Micah is the rat. I mean, what's in it for him ? What was his plan ? Rat on everyone so as to be free ?

And why did Dutch still trust him ? And why did he kill him in the end ? All of that was strange to me.
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Well yeah, he's basically a police informant, he turned on the gang to secure his own freedom. I'm not sure Dutch ever truly trusted him, but Dutch went off the rails when Hosea died and he and Micah fed off each other's penchant for chaos.

I took Dutch's actions at the end as his way of making amends with failing the gang. Arthur and John were both basically sons to him. He tells John that he's with Dutch "for the same reasons you are" during the last mission, or something to that effect. It's pretty obvious John is there to avenge Arthur. I think Dutch always intended to betray Micah, it was just luck that John happened to be there. And Dutch walked away knowing that the Blackwater money was in the cabin. He made things right between him and John to make amends for the past, but he was too excited by violence and mayhem to want to be part of his life going forward.

The weird thing to me was that John just gave Dutch a "Thank you" and seemingly immediately forgot all about him as he wanders away. John was always a bit of a naive idiot but he was so pissed that Dutch left him for dead and he has to know that Dutch was there when Arthur dies, and he doesn't even take the opportunity to confront him. I wouldn't expect him to shop Dutch in the back or anything but there was so much left unsaid between them.
 
BrassDragon

BrassDragon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,154
The Netherlands
ctcatsby said:
Going into the Epilogue, I was disappointed we didn't get to play as Sadie. By the time the credits rolled, I was a little glad to be rid of her. I don't know if her character was too over the top, but I do think the performance was. She was too exaggerated, almost cartoonish. Arthur also sounded like a cartoon cowboy on occasion throughout the game, but he also had many quieter, subdued moments that gave him great range.

Really, the VAs in this game were all over the place. There were some incredible performances and characters who sounded like real human beings, but there were also a lot of typical goofy Rockstar-types.
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I thought Sadie's actress did a good job with the material she was given; the character would have been benefited from a little more introspective moments (she has some good ones in the revenge mission and when standing with Arthur at the end, but they are few and fleeeting.) Maybe her transformation to hardened gunslinger could have been a little more gradual - some very broad writing there.

I really do like the character though but a lot of that has to do with the fact that she, Charles and John are the personifications of the gang's (or rather Arthur's) honor code.
 
deim0s

deim0s

Member
Oct 25, 2017
298
When Micah started spouting "We're very much alike you and I... We're survivors." line already tagged him as THE guy. Wished i was the one to shoot him tho.

We know John in this part isn't all about the outlaw life anymore - they just did Micah for Arthur. I guess Dutch being there is just a bonus.
 

Deleted member 2595

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Oct 25, 2017
5,475
ctcatsby said:
Going into the Epilogue, I was disappointed we didn't get to play as Sadie. By the time the credits rolled, I was a little glad to be rid of her. I don't know if her character was too over the top, but I do think the performance was. She was too exaggerated, almost cartoonish. Arthur also sounded like a cartoon cowboy on occasion throughout the game, but he also had many quieter, subdued moments that gave him great range.
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I think the "cartoonish effect" is Rockstar attempting to narratively justify their playable characters. That is, they can be both heartfelt and sociopathic within a two-minute span of time. Like Trevor. This demands a level of cartoonishness.

Yes, I think Sadie will be playable either in DLC (perhaps Mexico DLC) or a sequel. Literally all of her dialogue in the Epilogues is justifying why she would be a perfect playable character - then she rides off into the sunset.

Judging how they moved away from singleplayer DLC in GTA V, I think it's more likely we'll see a sequel with Sadie. You could argue that Mexico and a lot of South America remained a "wild west" longer than the states.

BrassDragon said:
Maybe her transformation to hardened gunslinger could have been a little more gradual - some very broad writing there.
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There was a... what, a 7 year gap between her becoming this hardened gunslinger?
 
The Shape

The Shape

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,027
Brazil
Paraside said:
I think the "cartoonish effect" is Rockstar attempting to narratively justify their playable characters. That is, they can be both heartfelt and sociopathic within a two-minute span of time. Like Trevor. This demands a level of cartoonishness.

Yes, I think Sadie will be playable either in DLC (perhaps Mexico DLC) or a sequel. Literally all of her dialogue in the Epilogues is justifying why she would be a perfect playable character - then she rides off into the sunset.

Judging how they moved away from singleplayer DLC in GTA V, I think it's more likely we'll see a sequel with Sadie. You could argue that Mexico and a lot of South America remained a "wild west" longer than the states.


There was a... what, a 7 year gap between her becoming this hardened gunslinger?
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She will probably be a NPC in Red Dead Online like GTA V characters that give you missions on GTA Online.
 

Deleted member 2595

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Oct 25, 2017
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Diane said:
She will probably be a NPC in Red Dead Online like GTA V characters that give you missions on GTA Online.
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I think that as well, and it could still be the case, but all of the things she says very specifically during the Epilogues imply she'll be a playable character. She says she straddles good and evil wantonly as she sees fit, that she can outfight most people, that she just wants to roam the world forever more, that she has no "strings" (unlike John), etc, etc.

Most of your quest givers in GTA Online were more sedentary and intellectual characters. Sadie is personified as a playable character by the end of RDR2.
 

Deleted member 37928

Banned
Jan 10, 2018
6,927
I might be imagining things, but I've noticed that Arthur puts his hands on his belt like John when in idle position when you finish and restart the game. Or has he always done this?
 

Deleted member 2595

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Tekku said:
I might be imagining things, but I've noticed that Arthur puts his hands on his belt like John when in idle position when you finish and restart the game. Or has he always done this?
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Pretty sure they share the vast majority of animations

You'll even notice other primary characters and NPCs doing the same animations as the protagonists occasionally (I got an awful one in literally the opening scene where Micah and Arthur had the same idle animation then did exactly the same "walking in snow" animation in sync lol)
 
BrassDragon

BrassDragon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,154
The Netherlands
Paraside said:
I think that as well, and it could still be the case, but all of the things she says very specifically during the Epilogues imply she'll be a playable character. She says she straddles good and evil wantonly as she sees fit, that she can outfight most people, that she just wants to roam the world forever more, that she has no "strings" (unlike John), etc, etc.

Most of your quest givers in GTA Online were more sedentary and intellectual characters. Sadie is personified as a playable character by the end of RDR2.
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She also mentions that she spends all her money on clothes and doesn't really have any other use for money besides that. Seems to echo how players view the open world economy perfectly.
 

Deleted member 2595

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BrassDragon said:
She also mentions that she spends all her money on clothes and doesn't really have any other use for money besides that. Seems to echo how players view the open world economy perfectly.
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100%

Honestly I was furious after the Epilogues wrapped because they had rhetorically spent hours describing why will be taking over control as Sadie

I'm over it now but it's just ridiculous how much she's pegged as a playable protag and it doesn't happen.
 
The Shape

The Shape

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,027
Brazil
Paraside said:
Honestly I was furious after the Epilogues wrapped because they had rhetorically spent hours describing why will be taking over control as Sadie

I'm over it now but it's just ridiculous how much she's pegged as a playable protag and it doesn't happen.
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Yeah, it would be awesome to play as her. I feel like the epilogue was a little underwhelming, considering the great journey I had with Arthur. I was deeply missing him. The only really good mission with John was the last one.

They really should consider an expansion with Sadie. And they should use the RDR1 map that's basically empty right now.
 

Deleted member 2595

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Diane said:
Yeah, it would be awesome to play as her. I feel like the epilogue was a little underwhelming, considering the great journey I had with Arthur. I was deeply missing him. The only really good mission with John was the last one.

They really should consider an expansion with Sadie. And they should use the RDR1 map that's basically empty right now.
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Yeah an Expansion or sequel that takes us from New Austin down into Mexico and then way deeper into Mexico would be super cool and intense

Like all the stuff in Blood Meridian which explores Mexico is insane. You get big castle forts/villages and shit down there and proper psychopathic lords who slaughter thousands of people. Not to mention the roaming Native Americans who are now homeless and literally just there to slaughter in a vengeful rage. It could get super crazy.
 
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Chirotera

Chirotera

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,268
I think a dual narrative RDR3 would work best. Could have it work like gta5. You'd play as both Jack Marston and Sadie Adler. Decanonize the original epilogue and have the plot focusing on those two seeking revenge for John and the true end to gunslinger of the west.
 
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Deleted member 2595

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Oct 25, 2017
5,475
Chirotera said:
I think a dual narrative RDR3 would work best. Could have it work like gta5. You'd play as both Jack Marston and Sadie Adler. Decanonize the original prologue and have the plot focusing on those two seeking revenge for John and the true end to gunslinger of the west.
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You mean original Epilogue?

And I'm not sure, I think other dual narratives would work best, e.g. Charles and Sadie.

RDR is handled very differently from the GTA series - I don't think they'll decanonise anything. What we see is 100% what we get and how it links to/ties with other narrative threads.

The two of them roaming south into Mexico would make a damn lot of sense, though. Like, we know Jack could easily do this and that Sadie is probably down there already.
 
Chirotera

Chirotera

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,268
Paraside said:
You mean original Epilogue?

And I'm not sure, I think other dual narratives would work best, e.g. Charles and Sadie.

RDR is handled very differently from the GTA series - I don't think they'll decanonise anything. What we see is 100% what we get and how it links to/ties with other narrative threads.

The two of them roaming south into Mexico would make a damn lot of sense, though. Like, we know Jack could easily do this and that Sadie is probably down there already.
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Yar, meant original epilogue. It's early and I need coffee, haha.
 
Acquiescence

Acquiescence

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,257
Lake Titicaca
Having finally gotten to the end credits, it's an 8.5 for me. An excellent game overall, but a disappointing sequel full of bizarre and convoluted design choices. The first game is superior in my eyes because it was shorn of (most of) the bloat that RDR2 is packed with. On a story-telling front, the sequel is the better game and nails it big time, from the script to the characterisation, but good lord was it a chore to play at times, especially as I neared the end and had the horse riding on automatic while my attention was directed elsewhere. My major bugbear was the elimination of a proper fast travel feature. In a 60 hour plus game, fast travel from anywhere on the map was really needed. I can suffer through all amount of poor controls, but being forced to ride for ages to get to my destination nearly made me snap by the end.
 
Heckler456

Heckler456

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,256
Belgium
Chirotera said:
I think a dual narrative RDR3 would work best. Could have it work like gta5. You'd play as both Jack Marston and Sadie Adler. Decanonize the original epilogue and have the plot focusing on those two seeking revenge for John and the true end to gunslinger of the west.
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I really don't think you can tell a Wild West story in starting in 1914 and going forward, imo. They had the right instinct to take it back in time with RDR2, and RDR2 goes right up to where RDR1 starts, so if anything, they'll have to go back even further. Maybe they go an entirely different way, with different characters and a different subject matter. Or maybe they'll go back even further, who knows. All I know for sure is: See you guys in a decade :p
 
Hystzen

Hystzen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,397
Manchester UK
What's really depressing is they use same camera tracking and angle after credits showing John n Abigail on hill where there graves are in red dead 1 and reveal of older jack .
 
Zoid

Zoid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,335
Chirotera said:
I think a dual narrative RDR3 would work best. Could have it work like gta5. You'd play as both Jack Marston and Sadie Adler. Decanonize the original epilogue and have the plot focusing on those two seeking revenge for John and the true end to gunslinger of the west.
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Wouldn't even have to take away the original epilogue, it could start right after or even be used as the intro to the game. Jack only killed Ross, Ford is still out there. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember him dying at Beecher's Hope.

But that wouldn't really be a redemption story. Red Dead Revenge? Red Dead Revengeance.
 
Papercuts

Papercuts

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,010
Sadie being playable would be cool, but something that was hitting me in the Epilogue was how much more like an old Rockstar game it felt. Basically just bee lining to mission markers and going from there, the camp element added so much to the experience and it's not something that can really be recaptured with extra content, not to mention sadie herself is especially against really working with people in that setting again. I don't think I would be particularly interested in DLC that's basically focused on bounties/bigger combat encounters since the all out shootfests are the weakest part of the game to me.
 
Quacktion

Quacktion

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,479
Is there a reason why the Van Horn mailman is pale as hell? He is straight up white and I dont know if its a glitch or intended look.
 
Brotherhood93

Brotherhood93

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,775
Finished the game today and I have to say I was slightly concerned around Chapter 3 when I'd already played for hours and felt like the overarching story hadn't really gone anywhere but it really picked up from there and in hindsight I appreciate the slow pace a lot more. It stops the story from feeling rushed as you can see how it all builds up nicely when you look back. Gives you good time to get to know a lot of the gang too. Haven't read many responses in this thread yet but I don't think I'll be alone in thinking Arthur, Dutch and Sadie are the standout characters of the game. Did enjoy Charles, Lenny and Hosea too. Micah felt a bit too cartoony for me, which would be one of my main disappointments.

There is one thing I really want to talk about though and it's this scene in the epilogue...

I don't know if anybody else felt this way but I really loved it. It's such a mundane scene in essence but the montage just works extremely well for me, it actually reminded me of some of the montages in Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul that are just a joy to watch even if what's happening isn't ultimately that interesting. The direction and music makes it. What I really appreciated about it is that it could easily have just been a cut-scene or a tedious QTE section (a little like some of the stuff at Pronghorn Ranch) that required more input but it's quick and snappy so it doesn't feel like busywork in the same way and the rhythm of the QTEs fit perfectly with the rhythm of the scene itself. Perhaps it's a little odd to have found that so cool but I don't think they could have done that any better. Great moment.
 
Heckler456

Heckler456

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,256
Belgium
Brotherhood93 said:
Finished the game today and I have to say I was slightly concerned around Chapter 3 when I'd already played for hours and felt like the overarching story hadn't really gone anywhere but it really picked up from there and in hindsight I appreciate the slow pace a lot more. It stops the story from feeling rushed as you can see how it all builds up nicely when you look back. Gives you good time to get to know a lot of the gang too. Haven't read many responses in this thread yet but I don't think I'll be alone in thinking Arthur, Dutch and Sadie are the standout characters of the game. Did enjoy Charles, Lenny and Hosea too. Micah felt a bit too cartoony for me, which would be one of my main disappointments.

There is one thing I really want to talk about though and it's this scene in the epilogue...

I don't know if anybody else felt this way but I really loved it. It's such a mundane scene in essence but the montage just works extremely well for me, it actually reminded me of some of the montages in Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul that are just a joy to watch even if what's happening isn't ultimately that interesting. The direction and music makes it. What I really appreciated about it is that it could easily have just been a cut-scene or a tedious QTE section (a little like some of the stuff at Pronghorn Ranch) that required more input but it's quick and snappy so it doesn't feel like busywork in the same way and the rhythm of the QTEs fit perfectly with the rhythm of the scene itself. Perhaps it's a little odd to have found that so cool but I don't think they could have done that any better. Great moment.
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Still whistling that song, lol.
 
ctcatsby

ctcatsby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
569
USA
The house-building mission is terrific. Much better than many (most?) of the shooting segments. Vidyagames need more human touches like that.
 

Deleted member 10908

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1,256
Brotherhood93 said:
Finished the game today and I have to say I was slightly concerned around Chapter 3 when I'd already played for hours and felt like the overarching story hadn't really gone anywhere but it really picked up from there and in hindsight I appreciate the slow pace a lot more. It stops the story from feeling rushed as you can see how it all builds up nicely when you look back. Gives you good time to get to know a lot of the gang too. Haven't read many responses in this thread yet but I don't think I'll be alone in thinking Arthur, Dutch and Sadie are the standout characters of the game. Did enjoy Charles, Lenny and Hosea too. Micah felt a bit too cartoony for me, which would be one of my main disappointments.

There is one thing I really want to talk about though and it's this scene in the epilogue...

I don't know if anybody else felt this way but I really loved it. It's such a mundane scene in essence but the montage just works extremely well for me, it actually reminded me of some of the montages in Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul that are just a joy to watch even if what's happening isn't ultimately that interesting. The direction and music makes it. What I really appreciated about it is that it could easily have just been a cut-scene or a tedious QTE section (a little like some of the stuff at Pronghorn Ranch) that required more input but it's quick and snappy so it doesn't feel like busywork in the same way and the rhythm of the QTEs fit perfectly with the rhythm of the scene itself. Perhaps it's a little odd to have found that so cool but I don't think they could have done that any better. Great moment.
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Loved it
 
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