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Celestine

Member
Oct 31, 2017
694
Tokyo, Japan
I was a bit iffy on blue mage at first, but after seeing the details and thinking it through my interest is piqued. I've been playing for years now and I've done the whole new job song and dance. I love the game but it's starting to feel stale. Something truly different to the normal formula sounds like it could be fun and lead to more innovation, plus it could be a lot of fun to team up with friends also on blue mage to go out and get skills together.
 

Zuly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,180
Puerto Rico
Those people would also be disapointed when the XIV version of BLU would be super restricted because of how XIV combat works though. Like yeah in a perfect world they would have done a 120abilities class that works within XIV restrictive combat system, but more likely they would have trimmed it down to 30abilities, most of which would be generic abilities learned by leveling only and a few from questing in a traditional BLU way, and many of these iconic abilities would be toned down a lot to fit whatever role the BLU got(so if they were casters, the tanking/healing stuff would be much much weaker, similar to how RDM healing is super limited). I mean I'm sure some people would have been ok with that too, it's just there wasn't going to be a class pleasing everyone without an enormous amount of work(aka it wouldn't have happened ever). They went one way, and by 6.0 maybe they'll be able to provide something that works in current content too, we'll see, but that's how it is now.
This is pretty much how I see Blue Mage, and why I'm not upset. Honestly, I didn't want them to add BLU in the first place because it's main thing doesn't flat out work with this game's combat/party system. I think SE just went "have your dumb BLU even if it doesn't make sense in this game, so stop complaining". The only way I can see BLU working is giving it specs to choose from (Tank, Heal, DPS) and removing the ability learning altogether.
 

Yam's

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,028
I really like how FF14 is catering to solo players and roleplayers with a job specifically made for them.

This is pretty innovative for an MMO since most go after catering solely to their raiding customers. Worst case scenario, this becomes another experiment like Lords of Vermillion that doesn't affect anyone.

Most mmos have been catering to solo players for the last years. With people wanting to see everything without committing to anything, it's not like most companies had much of a choice.
 

Xelan

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
765
Blue Mage looks like something I would grind while waiting for queues to pop for other classes, which is just fine in my book.

Does anyone know during which part of the 4.5 patch blue mage is dropping, is it the one in january or march?
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,767
Ever since the last solo duty of Red Mage and that one solo duty in the 4.1 main story I always wanted more good solo content. I mean they are kind of stepping up to the plate especially with the two fun fights we had in the latest patch but I am definitely intrigued by the setup here.

Yes I would have preferred Blue Mage be a normal job but since we're not getting that I can see the potential in the version of Blue Mage they have put forward. I really want to them to add some group content to it later down the line since it seems it's just solo to start out. Also in typical Tales of fashion in regards to coliseums add a cameo battle or something.
 

Pyros Eien

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,974
This is pretty much how I see Blue Mage, and why I'm not upset. Honestly, I didn't want them to add BLU in the first place because it's main thing doesn't flat out work with this game's combat/party system. I think SE just went "have your dumb BLU even if it doesn't make sense in this game, so stop complaining". The only way I can see BLU working is giving it specs to choose from (Tank, Heal, DPS) and removing the ability learning altogether.
I mean I think there were a variety of ways to go about it, and some might have been better, but I also think they wouldn't have been able to please everyone. I also don't think people should get too stuck on picking a class as a "main" especially when it hasn't been added yet. There were similar disapointment when DRK was announced and it was a tank, not as much obv but still a fair amount, people wanted the "consume life to do more damage" DRK, but instead they got tank DRK, or when RDM was announced and it was mostly a DPS class with a couple of white magic spells.

I do get the disapointment obviously, people expected something different but probably never expected something like this, and what they're doing might not appeal at all to some people who mostly focus on raiding for example. If they add Dancer this expansion and it's a DPS class, I'll be disapointed too. Hell while I want it to be a healer, in XI Dancer wasn't a healer(it could heal, but it certainly wasn't a full fledged healer unless doing easy content) so it'd make sense for them to make it either a melee support(like BRD/MCH, but melee), or just a straight DPS. Maybe even a tank would make more sense than a healer, based on XI rendition. But I'm also not setting myself up for a huge disapointment by not expecting too much. If it's a DPS I'll play it anyway, it just won't be my main priority(well maybe, we'll see what Monk and Ninja get).

I also find the idea of having a class that might potentially be overpowered for old content to be pretty appealing, as I often unsub for large periods of time so I didn't do a bunch of the past content, or not much. I do hope they boost BLU to 70 asap during 5.0 though, so I can farm birds in HW content for example. One issue about soloing old content however is stuff like forced level sync(maps) and mechanics that just break when you're solo(a fair amount of the raid/trials), so unless the class is really busted, it might not be that good. PLD is already very strong at soloing stuff with "infinite" heals, tank cooldowns including Hallowed and good damage, although healing might get nerfed in 5.0 with the removal of MP so we'll see, but unless BLU is even better, I'm not sure it'll be that useful. If it's better than PLD at soloing old content though, I think I'll have some amount of fun at least while grinding old raid sets for glamours and such. Hell maybe it'll be able to solo map dungeons at level sync even, which means you'll be able to make fairly good money off the minions/glamours that are exclusive to that content without having to share with other people.

Oh and I'm secretly looking forward to leveling via ARR FATEs again. When I was catching up all my classes at the start of SB doing PotD for days on end, I was a bit nostalgic of the whole ARR FATE zone rotation I used to do for the vanilla classes.
 

Kent

Member
Jun 4, 2018
1,098
The Blue Mage announcements are the biggest disappointment I've felt in a long time. Just... eugh. They know this is a highly-requested job throughout the community, so instead of putting forth the R&D to make it a normal job, we get something that's thematically-inappropriate to the history of the job (as Blue Mage is traditionally not a pure caster - and traditionally not one to use staves of any sort), is locked out of a quite a lot of content in the game entirely and effectively sequestered to the old and tired ARR content (in addition to its unique solo content), for very thin reasonings, and to top it all off, this job has been in development toward this state for an entire year at this point.

I know the design work behind making a job in a game like this isn't exactly easy work, and that plenty of stuff has to be re-engineered at some level to accommodate the uniqueness of Blue Mage as a concept among jobs across Final Fantasy's recurrent pantheon, but this is intensely disappointing, especially as someone who's a fan of this job historically above all others, and the last major implementation of Blue Mage as a job was the amazing one they put forth in Final Fantasy XI.
 

Pyros Eien

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,974
The Blue Mage announcements are the biggest disappointment I've felt in a long time. Just... eugh. They know this is a highly-requested job throughout the community, so instead of putting forth the R&D to make it a normal job, we get something that's thematically-inappropriate to the history of the job (as Blue Mage is traditionally not a pure caster - and traditionally not one to use staves of any sort)

That's kinda debatable.

There's no "traditional" blue mage, they're all fairly different.

In FFV, blue mages can use knives, swords and rods, they're restricted to light armor and have a penalty to str and a high bonus to magic, they are casters first and foremost.
In VI, Strago uses rods and maces and wears robes, he is a traditional caster.
In VIII, Quistis uses Whips and Blue Magic is her Limit Break only, first one that's not a "traditional caster", but also isn't a traditional blue mage since blue magic is limited in use.
In IX, Quin uses Forks as weapons and can wear light armor, Blue magic is learned by eating enemies, can't say much about this one since I haven't played it.
In X, Kimahri can uses Lances and Armlets as armor, and uses Blue Magic during Overdrive(limit break system iirc) only, definitely not a caster, however Blue Magic here feels a bit secondary due to being tied to LB.
In XI, Blue mages can use swords and clubs(swords being the better option but clubs being generally the "caster" option if you make a pure caster build), they can use a variety of armor including heavier armor and they can be played in a variety of ways, including tank, sub healer(maybe main healer on easy content), melee damage dealer or magical damage dealer, so caster and not caster, depends on your choices, mostly played as a DPS or tank in current content but does caster for soloing some stuff for example.
In FFTA, Blue mages use Sabers but are restricted to light armor, as far as I remember, they're mostly casters and don't use their sabers for actual combat.

Overall, there's a fair amount of variety, but there's plenty of "traditional" Blue Mages being purely casters, both thematically and in practice. Because of the nature of the abilities granted by Blue Magic, a bunch might seem less "caster-y" than other stuff, but they'd still count as casters.
 

Gamer @ Heart

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,546
Doesn't affect anyone?? Yeah fuck those that wanted to play their favourite FF class "in the journey" and not a side game

They wanted to do blue mage justice. Designing a class under the strict battle system they have would not have satisfied that goal. People beg for more single player content outside of the typical patch cycle we have all grown tired off. They kill 2 birds with one stone.

If you got a ''real" blue mage class, it would likely end up just be a red mage with different cast bar names. You will have 6 main attacks/spell, 3-5 OGCD and buffs, etc. The game design just doesn't support what you think you want. Just look at what red mage could do in 11 vs 14.
 

betelgeuzah

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
80
That's kinda debatable.

There's no "traditional" blue mage, they're all fairly different.

In FFV, blue mages can use knives, swords and rods, they're restricted to light armor and have a penalty to str and a high bonus to magic, they are casters first and foremost.
In VI, Strago uses rods and maces and wears robes, he is a traditional caster.
In VIII, Quistis uses Whips and Blue Magic is her Limit Break only, first one that's not a "traditional caster", but also isn't a traditional blue mage since blue magic is limited in use.
In IX, Quin uses Forks as weapons and can wear light armor, Blue magic is learned by eating enemies, can't say much about this one since I haven't played it.
In X, Kimahri can uses Lances and Armlets as armor, and uses Blue Magic during Overdrive(limit break system iirc) only, definitely not a caster, however Blue Magic here feels a bit secondary due to being tied to LB.
In XI, Blue mages can use swords and clubs(swords being the better option but clubs being generally the "caster" option if you make a pure caster build), they can use a variety of armor including heavier armor and they can be played in a variety of ways, including tank, sub healer(maybe main healer on easy content), melee damage dealer or magical damage dealer, so caster and not caster, depends on your choices, mostly played as a DPS or tank in current content but does caster for soloing some stuff for example.
In FFTA, Blue mages use Sabers but are restricted to light armor, as far as I remember, they're mostly casters and don't use their sabers for actual combat.

Overall, there's a fair amount of variety, but there's plenty of "traditional" Blue Mages being purely casters, both thematically and in practice. Because of the nature of the abilities granted by Blue Magic, a bunch might seem less "caster-y" than other stuff, but they'd still count as casters.

What the guy you quoted wants is an FFXI Blue Mage, nothing more. It's just not so good of an argument by itself so suddenly SE is breaking some essential traditions by doing this. Traditions like what Kimahri represents in your example.

FF is all about breaking the mold and has always been. Either you embrace it or you set yourself up for a disappointment.
 

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
Compiled Live Letter Information:

  • Patch 4.5 - A Requiem for Heroes
  • Part 1 (Early Jan) | Part 2 (Late March)
  • Live Letter December
  • Four Lords Finale
  • More Hildibrand
  • New Dungeon
  • Final Return to Ivalice raid (Orbonne Monastery)
  • Balthier Gear
  • Fran appearance?
  • New Trial (Seiryu - The Wrath of Snakes)
  • Eureka Finale (Hydatos) | 4.5 Part 2
  • Rival Wings Update (Hidden Gorge)
  • Gold Saucer Gate (Air Force One)
  • Gold Saucer New Content soon
  • New Custom Deliveries Content
  • World Visit System Added | 4.5 Part 2
  • Working on implementing the ability to go to other world weddings.
  • Data Center Expansion
New-Data-Centers.jpg
  • Transfer world will be free during the 2 week redistribution.
  • If you own an estate when transferring, you will be reimbursed the full 100% of the original price. Additional 3 Million gil for furniture.
  • Same applies for Apartments. 500 thousand gil for furniture.
Blue Mage Information:
  • StormBlood Not required only AAR. Need a level 50 class, 2.0 MSQ completed as well
  • Designed for Solo.
  • Blue mages can learn abilities in parties, but the Masked Carnival is only accessed by Solo blue mages.
  • Beastmaster tease
  • Progression:
    unknown.png
  • Level 50 Blue Mage unlocks Arena challenges in Ul'dah:
    TwitchUI_2018-11-18_01-03-00.png
  • Rare chance of learning new abilities when killing an enemy and witnessing an action. The Final Fantasy XI experience.
  • 49 abilities by 4.5.
  • 24 abilities can be equipped.
  • Tank LB is now called Stronghold, previously Mighty Guard
Other Information:
  • Encyclopedia Eorzea Volume II | November 24th
  • The Vegetarian added
Sounds great!
 

Elysiums

Banned
Dec 19, 2017
476
That's kinda debatable.

There's no "traditional" blue mage, they're all fairly different.

In FFV, blue mages can use knives, swords and rods, they're restricted to light armor and have a penalty to str and a high bonus to magic, they are casters first and foremost.
In VI, Strago uses rods and maces and wears robes, he is a traditional caster.
In VIII, Quistis uses Whips and Blue Magic is her Limit Break only, first one that's not a "traditional caster", but also isn't a traditional blue mage since blue magic is limited in use.
In IX, Quin uses Forks as weapons and can wear light armor, Blue magic is learned by eating enemies, can't say much about this one since I haven't played it.
In X, Kimahri can uses Lances and Armlets as armor, and uses Blue Magic during Overdrive(limit break system iirc) only, definitely not a caster, however Blue Magic here feels a bit secondary due to being tied to LB.
In XI, Blue mages can use swords and clubs(swords being the better option but clubs being generally the "caster" option if you make a pure caster build), they can use a variety of armor including heavier armor and they can be played in a variety of ways, including tank, sub healer(maybe main healer on easy content), melee damage dealer or magical damage dealer, so caster and not caster, depends on your choices, mostly played as a DPS or tank in current content but does caster for soloing some stuff for example.
In FFTA, Blue mages use Sabers but are restricted to light armor, as far as I remember, they're mostly casters and don't use their sabers for actual combat.

Overall, there's a fair amount of variety, but there's plenty of "traditional" Blue Mages being purely casters, both thematically and in practice. Because of the nature of the abilities granted by Blue Magic, a bunch might seem less "caster-y" than other stuff, but they'd still count as casters.

This.

Also I like SE changing the way you play with some jobs. We will get Gunblade and 1 more at least for 5.0 ( I'm hoping for 3 new jobs besides BLU ) so this "limited" job will be fun to play with until we get the next expansion and it's gonna keep evolving. Maybe someday we will get a BLU playable in end game content when they find a way to balance it.
 

Kent

Member
Jun 4, 2018
1,098
That's kinda debatable.

There's no "traditional" blue mage, they're all fairly different.

In FFV, blue mages can use knives, swords and rods, they're restricted to light armor and have a penalty to str and a high bonus to magic, they are casters first and foremost.
In VI, Strago uses rods and maces and wears robes, he is a traditional caster.
In VIII, Quistis uses Whips and Blue Magic is her Limit Break only, first one that's not a "traditional caster", but also isn't a traditional blue mage since blue magic is limited in use.
In IX, Quin uses Forks as weapons and can wear light armor, Blue magic is learned by eating enemies, can't say much about this one since I haven't played it.
In X, Kimahri can uses Lances and Armlets as armor, and uses Blue Magic during Overdrive(limit break system iirc) only, definitely not a caster, however Blue Magic here feels a bit secondary due to being tied to LB.
In XI, Blue mages can use swords and clubs(swords being the better option but clubs being generally the "caster" option if you make a pure caster build), they can use a variety of armor including heavier armor and they can be played in a variety of ways, including tank, sub healer(maybe main healer on easy content), melee damage dealer or magical damage dealer, so caster and not caster, depends on your choices, mostly played as a DPS or tank in current content but does caster for soloing some stuff for example.
In FFTA, Blue mages use Sabers but are restricted to light armor, as far as I remember, they're mostly casters and don't use their sabers for actual combat.

Overall, there's a fair amount of variety, but there's plenty of "traditional" Blue Mages being purely casters, both thematically and in practice. Because of the nature of the abilities granted by Blue Magic, a bunch might seem less "caster-y" than other stuff, but they'd still count as casters.
While Blue Mages are always somewhat different from each other, we can see rather clear lines of commonality between many of them - with Strago being the only major outlier here.

Of all of the examples you listed - which is pretty comprehensive - almost all of these directly put Blue Mage in the hybrid category. One very important aspect here, which you'll see come up a good few times across the series with this job especially, is that it's designed in a way that allows it to be complementary to a variety of different types of character archetypes. Blue Magic is, fundamentally, something that behaves in a strange way compared to the straight-forward nature of other types of character ability sets, and this aspect allows it to complement a variety of things in different ways.

In FFV, the selection of weaponry available makes a bigger overall impact to their combat performance than their innate stat bonuses do. This allows them to function quite well as a hybrid physical/melee character, as it's quite easy (and intentional, for sure) that they're able to strike a middle-ground without being useless on either front - despite what the strength penalty might imply when looked at alone.

Strago is easily the only case where Blue Mage has appeared as strictly a pure caster, as he is simply not well-equipped to do much else.

Quistis, Quina and Kimahri are intentionally designed to be somewhere between hybrid and physical - and notably, characters in Final Fantasy VIII don't have a high degree of variance in their stats and equipment to begin with (outside of some outliers, like Rinoa), as the game's primary means of character differentiation come in the forms of limit breaks and junctions. Kimahri and Quistis have their access to blue magic strictly tied to limit break mechanics, whereas Quina has weapons access that is on par with most of the game's physical attackers. Notably, Quina's weapons have a high degree of randomness to their damage variance, despite that the base attack power is still twice that of caster weapons like what Garnet, Eiko and Vivi use. It deserves mentioning that Kimahri is generally considered to be bad at everything due to the game's scaling, but the intent is that he's able to be flexible and easily go into many other characters' specs due to his place on the sphere grid, giving him an ease of malleability with which he can go toward physical or caster at the player's whim - this is kind of an important part of the concept, even if they did miss the mark balance-wise pretty egregiously.

One you missed, Gun Mage, is the FFX-2 equivalent of Blue Mage. It has enemy skills available to it, as well as the ability to scan enemies - and statistically, it's something of a powerhouse in having high both strength and magic stats, but it low on defense.

Blue Mage in FFXI is exceptionally-well-designed and highly-malleable in the way. As mentioned before, it's that ability to adapt to a multitude of functions and playstyles that causes this to really shine through as probably the most definitive interpretation of what a Blue Mage really is.

In FFTA and FFTA2, Blue Mages are back to being hybrids again - stat growth for Blue Mage is almost strictly even across the board, outside of being a bit on the slow side. Notably, most of the Blue Magic available in both of these games are support-oriented, with many of its spells being things you can't use in such a direct manner as more typical kinds of magic. Again, this lends it exceedingly well to function in a supportive way to many different kinds of other jobs as these are games with job systems in them. Damage > MP is additionally one of the most potent reaction skills in the game... specifically for physical combatants.

So in the end, the common theme tying Blue Mages together isn't simply the fact that they can cast enemy skills as magic - but the fact that (outside of Strago, who is again the outlier here) the unorthodox nature of spells they learn, combined with the equipment they can use, allows them to functionally be very versatile and complement a variety of different character archetypes in different ways. I fully understand that would be difficult to implement well in something so rigidly-structured as Final Fantasy XIV, but let's not pretend they couldn't have embraced it in a way that could've been a support-DPS-melee-caster, which would still solidify it as having a justifiably-unique place amongst the game's array of jobs, while also satisfying fans of the job itself.
 

Jayhawk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
65
Finally back home from the convention. I hope everyone from Era that went made it home safely!
 

Ravidrath

Verified
Oct 27, 2017
297
Los Angeles, CA
I'll dink around with BLU, but I'm disappointed it's become solo side content. Could still be fun, though.

One thing I was kinda hoping they might do to tie it into the rest of the game was that you could use BLU magic as Role Actions, so completing that content had the bonus of unlocking new abilities for the "real" jobs.

For example, they showed the BLU learning Shiva's ice bow ability, so it would make sense that you could equip that on Bards.

But that really wouldn't fit with the design they have in mind for the game, where customization either becomes required or is stamped out entirely by the community.