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Today (Nov 19th) is International Men's Day (Read OP)
- Thread starter Falconbox
- Start date
Celebrate today by seeking psychological help if you feel you need it and making a doctor's appointment to discuss the age appropriate tests you've been putting off.
Also celebrate by removing truck nuts any time you see them.
This seems like a no brainer solution.
Also celebrate by removing truck nuts any time you see them.
This seems like a no brainer solution.
Anthony Bourdain was my role model in grade school and high school. Really left a mark on my psyche.
That's a difficult question, actually. My dad wasn't a part of my life and, being a closeted gay kid doing all the stereotypical "closeted gay kid" subjects in school (Drama, Art, English, etc), there weren't exactly many male teachers I could look up to. Can't think of anyone from media either.
I mean, do you think Ellen's tweet was justified or not? Do you think it was helpful to anyone? Devoid of the context (where a lot of those people were likely right-wing MRA types) I don't see what is inherently problematic about people taking offense to what she posted, nor do I see why Ellen shouldn't be criticised for it.
These two send up the biggest red flags for me:
The issues with the second one are pretty obvious. But, regarding the first one, I've mentioned this above but the issues in that image are all covered by other awareness campaigns. You claim that this day helps spotlight those causes because they get "drowned out". If a majority of the homeless are male, then National Hunger & Homelessness Month defacto helps those people. If a majority of those who commit Suicide, then National Suicide Prevention Month helps those men too. A National Prostate Cancer Awareness Week already exists. All the causes that men are demanding be addressed are being addressed.
EVEN THEN, THIS DAY WOULD BE FINE. In an equal society, the causes mentioned are all valid and an extra day doesn't harm anyone. Except we don't live in a society of gender equality.
HOWEVER, the fact is that this day is being used to push MRA propaganda and isn't being used properly. It's being used by MRAs to harass women (see: the Ellen tweet) under false pretenses. And that's not to mention the blatant hypocrisy of those crying misandry. It's like I mentioned above: the overlap between people who wish to decry's society's expectations of them as men and the people who want to enjoy the benefits of a society that reinforces patriarchal views of women is too damn high.
Then how about empowering the men who use this day to talk about issues, instead of silencing everyone. Move the people that need this day to the top instead of pushing everyone out.
So basically, you don't think the facts are wrong, you think the groups using the facts are bad.
If you're going to talk about reading comprehension, how about you sum up yourself in a way people can understand instead of blathering on about how MRAs are evil. we all know MRAs are evil. That's not a question in contention here.
Exactly.
This is a thread for awareness regarding things like mental/physical health issues, fear of being vulnerable, restrictive gender roles, and how these constructs perpetuate toxic masculinity. There is meaningful discussion to be had here so please do not post just to be dismissive.
In the narrow context of the literal definition of this day's goals, no.
In the broader context of living in a society where men get preference over women in all those fields mentioned above and then some, I think it was a playful jab that way too many people here want to interpret as misandry. Ellen's joke was a play on "International Men" and yet the sheer amount of people here falling for MRA nonsense and claiming Ellen disrespected men with depression by making light of this day is such horseshit.
Heh. My dad was a both a role model in some ways and a role model of what NOT to be (at all) in others. I try to summon the good things when I need to, and let the bad things stay dead and in the past.
And for me, it was Oscar Wilde. My senior year honors English teacher turned me, specifically me out of the whole class, on to him.
Yet she did make light of this day, did she not? That's literally what she did, even if you choose to believe it was nothing more than a "playful jab."
In my eyes playing to the MRA's narrative that "the feminists" aren't giving men a voice is exactly what people shouldn't be doing. Every "playful jab" only emboldens those sorts of people as, like it or not, not everyone sees it as a "playful jab." If your issue with the day is that it's been co-opted by nefarious groups, which I'd argue is definitely true, then I don't see how supporting someone who unwittingly aids those nefarious groups is a good idea.
I wasn't in the English group that looked at Oscar Wilde but I can imagine he'd be a great role model. The two teachers I had for English focused on Feminist Literature (Atwood, Plath) and Victorian/American Literature respectively so not really any male role models there either. Frankly it just goes to show how much toxic masculinity has driven the more "soft" (for lack of a better term) male role models out of the public conscious if they even existed to begin with. If your personality doesn't align with a footballer or a "manly man" film star then there's really not many places to look.
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I can't speak for intention or other people's interpretation but I saw it as men feeling like they have the weight on their shoulders, not proclaiming they are the hero holding everyone up. Therefore I can relate to that particular picture because fuck, yes I feel like the weight of the world is on my shoulders at times.
Edit: and please, don't let this worthy cause be hijacked by the vocal minority who might be using it as a tool against women. That's not the intent.
I stand by my feeling that Ellen's Tweet was dog shit though (however I have self control and decency and won't attack her for it).
You say it's unrelated to health, but I would disagree. I think having positive role models is very important, and I think that can start at home. My parents, especially my father, are not particularly good role models. My shallow/poor relationship with my dad has definitely affected me.
No. Tried to arbitrarily give myself one as a child when school questions often came up asking who my role model was, but it wasn't meaningful to me. I attribute that to a lot of what's negative about me.
Just a small something to think about from me, considering many issues for men are tied up around masculinity and dominance, if you go into therapy request a male psychologist/psychiatrist. It may be your preference anyway like many men will veer towards male doctors, but when it comes to mental health/therapy most still prefer a woman.
There's nothing wrong with a woman as your therapist before anyone reads into that comment the wrong way, it's more about encouraging yourself to open up emotionally to another man, which is often a massive fucking issue for many men. When it obviously shouldn't be. You'll know your own internal fears/bias/phobia if you even think you cannot speak to your psychologist/psychiatrist, just because they're male.
Outlying issues aside, as some people do have genuine trauma based reasons for wishing to request a therapist of a certain sex/gender.
Tldr; Ask for whomever you want for therapy, or go with random for getting help asap, but if you know you have mental/emotional issues opening up to the same sex it is worth considering putting yourself out of your comfort zone and speaking to the same sex about your inner held issues/beliefs/problems/etc.
edit: And don't be this guy
There's nothing wrong with a woman as your therapist before anyone reads into that comment the wrong way, it's more about encouraging yourself to open up emotionally to another man, which is often a massive fucking issue for many men. When it obviously shouldn't be. You'll know your own internal fears/bias/phobia if you even think you cannot speak to your psychologist/psychiatrist, just because they're male.
Outlying issues aside, as some people do have genuine trauma based reasons for wishing to request a therapist of a certain sex/gender.
Tldr; Ask for whomever you want for therapy, or go with random for getting help asap, but if you know you have mental/emotional issues opening up to the same sex it is worth considering putting yourself out of your comfort zone and speaking to the same sex about your inner held issues/beliefs/problems/etc.
edit: And don't be this guy
My personal feelings aside, if this day helps empower men with depression find someone to talk to, then it should exist. However, if you're going to be a part of it, take a stand against the douchebags co-opting it for their own deeds instead of just doing nothing.
Alright, you want a TL;DR?
- This day is redundant and really has no reason to exist. While men do face gender-specific issues, all the issues that are being covered under this day are being covered under more inclusive holidays that aim to help both genders.
- In addition, this day is being used to effectively push a narrative that men are being persecuted and that men have it just as bad in society as women do, something that is blatantly untrue.
- However, even though my personal feelings on this day are detailed above, if the life of one man has been changed for the better as the result of this, then this day should continue while addressing the problematic elements of this day's audience.
I think people are making out of a molehill. I think the majority of people don't actually believe that she was disrespecting men with mental illnesses and instead need an incident to show how vicious the left is with their attacks. They need a boogeyman and they got one. It doesn't matter than Ellen was punching up with her joke and that if you did the same premise on Women's Day, you'd be punching down.
If you're genuinely offended by Ellen's joke and feel incredibly strongly she hurt men with those remarks, then you're entitled to your opinion and your voice against it. However, I think you're just joining the chorus of MRA-types who are fishing for another boogeyman to use in their fight to show that both sides are being cruel, vicious, and spiteful.
I'm such a male statistic, homeless, alone, severely depressed and suicidal but I am at least getting help and going to therapy once a week. I never cared for days like this before, buy now I kind of appreciate it and hope it makes men feel that they aren't alone.
That too, but that applies to most people (and is also something that needs to be worked on but that's an issue for another day)
Is it "punching up" when the day is (at least supposed to be) about people who are homeless, sick, impoverished or ignored? I can understand if this were Columbus Day or Presidents Day she were talking about but it's not, she was talking about a day that, whether you agree with it's usefulness or not, was created to help those in need and, hopefully, solve social issues regarding masculinity and being a man. To say it's "punching up" is to ignore the very purpose of the day itself; it would be like making fun of National Homelessness Month and then defending yourself with "yeah but the homeless in America have more opportunities than the homeless in other countries! I was punching up!"
Frankly, it was an ignorant comment that was terribly thought through and helpful to literally no-one but Ellen herself. The MRAs want their boogeymen, definitely, but that doesn't mean we should start giving them boogeymen on silver platters.
Eh, it's more like 100 % unless you die of something else first. Every man would get prostate cancer if they lived to 150. See it as an opportunity to take care of yourselfe so you stand a better chance at catching whatever cancer you get early and have it dealt with.
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I grew up without a male role model too, and also used my dad as an example of how *not* to act.
It sucks being out-of-tune with my emotions. Hell, I've only recently come to the realization that when I'm irritable it means I'm actually really sad. It's kind of funny how I've been conditioned to cry for help by driving the people close to me away.
It sucks being out-of-tune with my emotions. Hell, I've only recently come to the realization that when I'm irritable it means I'm actually really sad. It's kind of funny how I've been conditioned to cry for help by driving the people close to me away.
Drink it in lads
Never be scared of discussing your real feelings with other people. That's old-fashioned trash.
Never be scared of discussing your real feelings with other people. That's old-fashioned trash.
In the UK we're lucky enough to have the National Health Service. That said, my visits to the Dr yearly can be counted on one hand which, compared to my wife, is incredibly low. Why don't I go to the Dr more? I feel like I should crack on with things. I feel like they won't take me seriously. I feel like I'm wasting their time. I feel like I'm fussing over nothing.
I went to see the Dr last week after I fell over (lol) and smashed my knee into the ground - 17st of weight behind it with momentum. The fall was three weeks ago to the day when I finally admitted it needed looking at. The wound was healed and scab gone but it was internal damage still giving me jip. I'm an idiot.
Solidarity bro. My male hero was Jesse from nightmare on elm Street 2. That's what I had. The gayest horror movie ever.
I turned out gay tho and love campy shit, so it worked lol
I think you're looking at this from a rather white male apex perspective.
There are tons of men's issues that are unique. Not every guy is a caucasian tech worker making six figures in SV. Black and Latino men have enormous obstacles and issues too. This is the same stuff that white feminism ignores as well.
We're all human. We all have our unique struggles. Nothing wrong with acknowledging demographics. And I say this as someone that believes women and girls do face greater issues worldwide as an aggregate. This is obvious to mosts.
But men and women are uniquely intertwined. We're not separate populations. If we can help men be more mentally healthier overall, that's a win win for society. Especially since men are more conditioned to bottle emotions.
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The big issue here is that raising awareness can only do so much. Problems that marginalized groups face can be solved with representation and listening to members of those communities. Men are already have far more than their share of representation and yet we can't get a majority of men on board with any sort of movement that addresses these issues.
Men are in a prison of their own design.
Men are in a prison of their own design.
You're right about this if you're taking about white straight men. Other male groups in the West don't have those luxuries you speak of.
Only recently were former felons allowed to vote again in Florida for example. They were politically voiceless. Majority of them were black men.
I'm not sure what luxuries you're referring to. Striving to make men of color equal to white men isn't going to solve these issues.
Honestly, a lot of the snide responses in here are just adding to the problem. Cause every time a dude opens up and steps forward about something affecting them you just get a lot of well... this. And y'all wonder why so many guys bottle everything up. Because nobody cares to listen to you even if you're being genuine with your feelings.
I'm saying these issues are more multifaceted and complex. Not that we should aspire to imitate the status quo.
For example, voting disenfranchisement can lead to a silent and ignored class that cannot gain gainful employment, which could exacerbate mental health issues. Mental health issues them can't be addressed due to its price and ties to employees sponsored health insurance. Your analysis comes off as rather simplistic.
It might help but that also might just indicate the cancer portion of the day and there's already a Prostate Cancer awareness week in September. I feel that the primary goal of a day like this is to help men feel comfortable seeking mental health assistance. In particular, there have been countless times where male victims of abuse have been told to "toughen up" or that they should have been tougher and that absolutely destroys mental health. So many lives would be saved if society encouraged men to seek support in times of need instead of "toughening up"
I think that's because I'm saying that the bottom line is very straight forward. Privileged men are still affected by these things in an reasonable capacity. The fact that there are factors that can make life even worse doesn't change that.
This is what equality movements do (and it's exactly what they should do). They strive to close the gap between privileged and underprivileged groups. The privileged group is always used as a reference point; that's not aspiring to the status quo, it is aspiring to equality. Closing the the gap among men from different backgrounds isn't going to address what's being talked about in this thread.
40% of domestic abuse victims are men? I'm sorry I'm going to need to see the sources for that one
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/the-number-of-male-domestic-1284479771263030.html
It's from the CDC, but they measured it as severe physical violence, the image does not make the distinction.
NCADV says:
- 1 in 3 women and 1 in 4 men have been victims of [some form of] physical violence by an intimate partner within their lifetime
- 1 in 4 women and 1 in 7 men have been victims of severe physical violence by an intimate partner in their lifetime.