Eh,? You won't take a professional journalist seriously over a clickbait YouTuber that reads his articles word for word for cash ?
LMAO
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YongYea & Jason Schreier to discuss Games Industry
- Thread starter Lukemia SL
- Start date
Eh,? You won't take a professional journalist seriously over a clickbait YouTuber that reads his articles word for word for cash ?
LMAO
User Banned (2 weeks): Vilifying journalism over a series of posts; numerous accumulated infractions.
Both of them are a joke, ''professional journalist'' are often doing to the same click bait shit as the YouTubers as well. Stop acting like professional journalist are some sort of video game industry justice just because you hate YongYea and want to take a side in this pointless discussion.
Both Jason and YongYea are full of shit.
Mr. L M A O
He's extremely reliable and writes about stuff most of the rest of gaming press won't touch with a 10 foot pole, why wouldn't people take him serious?
You must have missed his many investigation pieces where he publishes story's on the industry. His book is excellent too.
And Yong, well....he just gives click bait videos to the world , making sure he's maxing out on YouTubes algo. And it's all outrage pieces
Big fucking difference
You do realize that the further you go with this the more you're making yourself look like you're part of the problem right ???
I hope you do realize that the one example you just gave is the prime demonstration that you would be among the ones that would have to reformulate their comments time and time again until some semblance of civilty would be part of your wording because the modern auto filters would reject your comment out right ???
In other words I repeat no you can make a clean comment section on youtube I follow several big names in French and the auto filters are forcing everybody to stay civil.
If french youtubers with multiple million subs can pull it off why not Yong ...
.
You're making some assumptions that there are no differences between freedom of speech in America and France. I know countries like England and France have more restrictive laws concerning what people can say. America in general is extremely hesitant to limit any speech, no matter how foul or offensive it is.
Here's the thing - people complain a lot and that's fine but when you look at what sells, the problem becomes clear - enough people are not buying the games that offer what they say they want. The biggest sellers are all the ones that are often most guilty of what people complain about. The publishers are following the money, basically.
And here we go again ... the same old bullshit coming from the same complete ignorant point of view ...
I ain't gonna be sharing all of the distastefull ultra right wing cartoons published on the daily in my country both on print and on the internet to illustrate how wrong you are google them yourself ...
Again if with auto filters Squeezie is able to force people to stay civil why would Yong not be able while he does have access to the same customisable and configurable tools.
Once again you further dig your own grave here ...
Dude...that's not at all what he was saying. He was saying another youtuber was able to deal with it and keep it civil. Him being French does not matter. French laws don't make it any easier for a youtuber.
His piece on Rockstar alone is better than Yong's entire body of work. One person has created several well-written, well-researched pieces that required actual investigation and actually got a response from the industry, and the other mosty cribs his content from various message boards.
Your false equivalence is both embarrassing and stupid.
Especially given that the modern auto filters moderation tools , have been a US exclusive for two years before they finally got expanded to the rest of the world in february 2017 ...
And yes since then Squeezie , Norman , Golden Moustache and so many others managed to wipe their comments section clean of any toxicty ...
So again if youtubers with millions of subs can pull it off why not YongYea ...
Are you one of those Americans that think your country has the most "free speech"?
You know it's basically the same in most other countries right ?
Hey, some of Yong's MGS5 theories are up there with Mankind's greatest works.
Heck in fact we're so lax on some shit that historical negationists from the US take refuge in my neck of the woods because of how lax we are on some "details" ...
What?? hahaha m8 you're deep in the hole, hahaha you really think Free speech is bigger in America? HA!!!!
To your first point, I never said France didn't have offensive speech. I said that America has less laws restricting freedom of speech which is a fact. So no, you are wrong on this issue not me. Also, Youtube has to cater to each countries laws so I don't know what restrictions France puts into Youtube for its users. I was just mentioning it because it is a possibility.
To your second point, with a subject matter as controversial as gaming I highly doubt that the auto filter you mentioned would work as well as you claim it would. Also, as everyone agrees just how abysmal the Youtube comment section is I think it's common sense that policing the comment section is far more difficult than you seem to realize.
In the end I put the responsibility of the comment to the person making the comment. A comment section is for anyone to voice their opinion as long as it doesn't break the TOS.
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Again no we do not have more restrictive laws and in fact when you ask international lawyers they go on reccord saying that several states in the US are far harsher than we are .
So again whether you fucking like it or not you're wrong on this one.
And all the channels I have mentionned are gaming centric and again they wiped their comment sections clean of toxicty.
And again the tools they used were created on the US version of youtube and were exclusive to the us before being deployed worldwide .
So again whether you fucking like it or not if his comment section is still not clean of that garbage its because he agrees with it.
Wrong, America has the 1st Amendment which protects the free speech of every citizen. Federal law trumps State law so these state laws would be deemed unconstitutional and thus invalid.
Also, France has laws against hate speech which would never be constitutional in America, so once again you are wrong. Racial hate speech and slurs are protected speech in America and no one would be breaking any laws by screaming these at someone's face.
A comment section is for anyone to voice their opinion as long as it doesn't break the TOS. If you find it offensive then you are free to not read or take part in it, however trying to make the leap saying that the creator agrees with these comments is a bridge too far.
Okay challenge accepted punk
Citation needed name me the exact article in the exact law book and name me which tribunal has jurisdiction to enact it in my country go ahead try to source your bullshit here ...
On the other hand you have a lot of reading to do about your own countries laws my friend
(Oh and that wikipedia article is just scratching the surface here there is way more to read about in your country's juridical history )
: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exceptions
His fanbase mainly. His content is based on the clickbaity circle jerk of "gamers", and their views on current trends on the industry. AKA beating the horse of "EA bad, CDPR good" just rally up the fans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayssot_Act
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...hate-speech-ban-is-wrong-way-too-fight-racism
LAW No 90-615 to repress acts of racism, anti-semitism and xenophobia (1990)
MODIFICATIONS OF THE LAW OF JULY 29, 1881 ON THE FREEDOM OF THE PRESS Art 8. – Article 24 of the Law on the Freedom of the Press of 29 July 1881 is supplemented by the following provisions: In the event of judgment for one of the facts envisaged by the preceding subparagraph, the court will be able moreover to order: Except when the responsibility for the author of the infringement is retained on the base for article 42 and the first subparagraph for article 43 for this law or the first three subparagraphs for article 93-3 for the law No 82-652 for July 29, 1982 on the audio-visual communication, the deprivation of the rights enumerated to the 2o and 3o of article 42 of the penal code for imprisonment of five years maximum;
Art 9. – As an amendment to Article 24 of the law of July 29, 1881 on the freedom of the press, article 24 (a) is written as follows:
Art. 24 (a). – […] those who have disputed the existence of one or more crimes against humanity such as they are defined by Article 6 of the statute of the international tribunal military annexed in the agreement of London of August 8, 1945 and which were carried out either by the members of an organization declared criminal pursuant to Article 9 of the aforementioned statute, or by a person found guilty such crimes by a French or international jurisdiction shall be punished by one month to one year's imprisonment or a fine.
Art 13. – It is inserted, after article 48-1 of the law of July 29, 1881 on the freedom of the press, article 48-2 thus written:
Art. 48-2. – […] publication or publicly expressed opinion encouraging those to whom it is addressed to pass a favourable moral judgment on one or more crimes against humanity and tending to justify these crimes (including collaboration) or vindicate their perpetrators shall be punished by one to five years' imprisonment or a fine.[30]
Funny you would quote the EXACT LAWS that we created in accord with the US to be on the same page when it comes to quelch down hollocaust denialism , and judeophboic negationism ...
No really how funny the first thing you throw down on the table has been made in accord with the US ...
Also it doesn't reflect too too good on you that this is the first ones that you take issue with ...
In fact the US are still mad salty at us that we do not prohibit negationism around american made and runned concentration camps of their japanese immigrants during world war 2 , because we deem it unnecessary and we still do because no motherfucker tried to pull that one over here (and they better not the population would litteraly evisccerte them pubcily )
Sorry bud, but the US has no federal law making it a crime to deny the holocaust whereas in France you could spend 1-12 months for denying the holocaust. This proves my point, I think you should stop now.
I haven't watched much of yongyeah stuff, but from what I had seen, it's the usual YouTuber that just makes a video of whatever hot topic at the time without really adding anything of value, not a big fan of that.
I did watch this video in it's entirety, and I tend to agree more with yongyeah than Jason. One comment I found kind of off base from Jason was something along the lines of "these are people that are making games for you and you just throw them hate", yeah they're making a game for people, but it's not like they're doing a favor or giving it away for free, it's a business, people pay money for it. Does that give consumers a right to "hate", I'd say so, express displeasure, vote with your wallet, as long as you're not harming or harrasing, I think it's valid (yes, I know this is happens sometimes).
It was a good video, hopefully both parts learned something cause neither was entirely right IMHO.
I did watch this video in it's entirety, and I tend to agree more with yongyeah than Jason. One comment I found kind of off base from Jason was something along the lines of "these are people that are making games for you and you just throw them hate", yeah they're making a game for people, but it's not like they're doing a favor or giving it away for free, it's a business, people pay money for it. Does that give consumers a right to "hate", I'd say so, express displeasure, vote with your wallet, as long as you're not harming or harrasing, I think it's valid (yes, I know this is happens sometimes).
It was a good video, hopefully both parts learned something cause neither was entirely right IMHO.
Yes you do granted they are limited to teachers to limit what they can say in the classroom but still you have limitations of freedom of speech surrounding holocaust denialism ...
And in fact several teachers were even condemned on that very basis .
So once again you just showed your ignorance of your very laws and of your own system. And illustrated that you also ignore everything of our mutually shared history ...
You realize you are directly insulting another user of this very forum right?
These teachers may have been fired from their jobs for teaching bad information but they would never be locked up for 1-12 months like they could in France. Also, French law applies to all it's citizens. Whereas in America I am free if I wanted to deny the holocaust and use racial slurs in public every day and the government could do nothing about it. That's because my freedom of speech is protected by the 1st Amendment. If you can't see the huge difference then we will never agree on this issue.
Freedom of Speech is the 1st amendment, it is first because it is the most important.
User Warned: Inflammatory comparison
Hasn't numerous YouTubers complained how shitty it is to moderate comment section?
It's a shame, because Yong actually have or had some good videos, but it just seems he is falling on his own trap about criticizing companies who are creedy and want money. He is basically doing same now. I don't really think he agrees with those alt-right gamers who comment his videos, but he also isn't really trying to anything to them, because he would lose views and subs.
And we why are we lumping all gamers as toxic, alt-right jerks? Seriously? That is exactly the same thing alt-right racists do...
It's a shame, because Yong actually have or had some good videos, but it just seems he is falling on his own trap about criticizing companies who are creedy and want money. He is basically doing same now. I don't really think he agrees with those alt-right gamers who comment his videos, but he also isn't really trying to anything to them, because he would lose views and subs.
And we why are we lumping all gamers as toxic, alt-right jerks? Seriously? That is exactly the same thing alt-right racists do...
Praise Geraldo, etc.
Like I said in an earlier post in this thread, YongYea is a great example of yellow journalism in the games industry: take existing problems in the industry, and blow them out of proportion to keep his audience riled up and coming back for more. The idea that he'd speak to Schreier strikes me as particularly hilarious; there couldn't be a more credible journalist in the industry for him to "debate" with. Where Schreier engages in actual investigative journalism, the best YongYea is to make use of Google-Fu before blowing what he just read out of proportion to anger his deplorable audience.
Dude has a stick up his ass so long so you can see it when he opens his mouth.
And you'd be able to do much of the same in France too with no repercussion as well
Again those laws are real clear and square cut as what is off limits and it always is about educationnal and information context ...
No matter how you spin it we share the same back bone on our exceptions to free speech ...
Do you want me to show you several videos of our own Alex Jones / Peter Molyneux to see how much they're still free roaming and living the life ???
After all you won't be much estranged I think because at this point you didn't furnish any further example (of which there are plenty ) but no the ones that sticks with you is the one about the jews ...
See how much you've not been helping your case ...
I dunno I mean you could have easily gone for Molineau vs The Eifel Tower Society , about Prof Molineau painting lessons for naked portrait at the feet of the eifel tower , and on what basis the Eifel Tower Society won ... that would have been a tricky one to rebuke at least to the uninformed american eye ... but no you went straight for the jews ...
Don't even bother answering (you're on the ignore list now) as I said you showed your true colors now buzz off.
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The discussion was okay. The only real discussion had was about gamer outrage and the part people like Jason and YongYea play in it. Jason ends by asking for more empathy from people, that they should remember that developers are the ones most affected by the bad work culture that is present in the industry and are unfairly targeted by the community. YongYea was visibly exasperated throughout the conversation, and his conclusion was that he was a gamer first, which justifies his anger and his uniformed videos. He also was upset at how Jason talked negatively about the gamer community. He avoided talking about his community, even though Jason mentioned the awful comments that plagues his channel multiple times. They agreed that some of the new monetization models that are showing up are shady. They disagreed on the Diablo Immortal reaction by the community, the Fallout Engine issue and on how angry someone should about things like the Assassin's Creed XP booster.
If anything, this video served to show how respectful and honest Jason is. People call him a shill and anti-gamer, when in reality he just puts both sides on blast for any perceived wrongdoings. The gaming industry for bad work practices and predatory monetization models, and the gaming community for being ignorant of how things work and misguided outrage.
Concerning YongYea's community, you reap what you sow. He does not want to deal with the bad elements in his community, so they will keep increasing in size and will eventually drown out everyone else, if that hasn't happened already.
If anything, this video served to show how respectful and honest Jason is. People call him a shill and anti-gamer, when in reality he just puts both sides on blast for any perceived wrongdoings. The gaming industry for bad work practices and predatory monetization models, and the gaming community for being ignorant of how things work and misguided outrage.
Concerning YongYea's community, you reap what you sow. He does not want to deal with the bad elements in his community, so they will keep increasing in size and will eventually drown out everyone else, if that hasn't happened already.
So do you just add Skill-Up to the same category as Yong Yea? He left a comment on the video echoing the same sentiments that Yong Yea is always going on about in his videos. Which, I'll agree, gets old fast because he beats a dead horse. However, it's always good to have people who are willing to speak out against a company's anti consumerism where as other outlets are not always reporting in the consumers favor.
No, he's not a journalist, and from what I watched of this video, Jason makes excellent points when viewing issues from developers perspectives and the harsh reality they face from quickly outraged consumers. However, if people like Skill Up take a strong stance against shoddy game practices, and it is attracting a bad subsection in their comments section, that doesn't make the issue less severe. Sometimes it seems like if you didn't get an outcry about stuff on Reddit many journalistic outlets wouldn't even bother to bring these issues to light.
No, he's not a journalist, and from what I watched of this video, Jason makes excellent points when viewing issues from developers perspectives and the harsh reality they face from quickly outraged consumers. However, if people like Skill Up take a strong stance against shoddy game practices, and it is attracting a bad subsection in their comments section, that doesn't make the issue less severe. Sometimes it seems like if you didn't get an outcry about stuff on Reddit many journalistic outlets wouldn't even bother to bring these issues to light.
It has happened already most of his old time viewers that were here before he shifted tapped out once he went full Sargon ...
So the damage is already done and irreperable .
These days I only click on the rare videos he does about games he played annd enjoyed (of which there are fewer and fewer, and the fact that people asked if he ever talked about a game he played and had fun with just goes to show that the gap is increasing further and further)
Heck Wetworks has been a clear example that the damage is already too far gone.
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I can tell that English is your second language and it is increasingly taxing my brain trying to understand what your trying to say. I've given several examples showing you were wrong and yet you still plough ahead with the same tired talking points. We have no further things to discuss, the fact that you take such liberties as trying to associate random comments on his youtube comment section against him tells me all I need to know about you and your views on freedom of speech.
Come back when you do some more research so you stop wasting my time.
I liked Yong's videos in the lead up to the MGSV release. He seemed like a good dude but after that when he refocused his channel on general gaming topics and literally just reposting trailers with his own lead-in for easy views, I unsubscribed. I had no idea how bad he had become since then.
Yeah pretty much, as if you enjoy more traditional single player games and/or games that don't expect you to keep putting your hand in your wallet then it can seem pretty bleak
There is no reversing the trend though, but at the same time I don't think single player non GaaS titles are going to die out
The responses to that post are unbelievable (with the exception of shinobi602 of course).
Long sentences of why Jason is wrong which basically all boil down to "no u". All because he said that YongYea needs to "think long and hard" about some disgusting posts on his channel.
Would that be mainly due to relentless marketing for these sorts of games, and in turn gaming sites, YouTubers & forums perpetuating it further because it's the Big thing?
Sony games are still traditional gamer games and seem to do quite well. In no doubt due to their industry leading excellence, which also fits into the above cycle.
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Don't get me wrong marketing DOES play a role in how succesfull a game is , but again no amount of marketing is gonna make up for a real bad game.
Those are solidly and professionaly made again if the general gaming audience would stop buying because too much after market monetization then they would have dropped it long ago.
Now that doesn't mean we shouldn't be critical.
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