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I think I am over the silent protagonist 'feature'
- Thread starter SantaC
- Start date
It's weird that the main character of Dragon Quest XI has a voice during the flashbacks of him as a small child.
I always assumed that the "silent" protagonist actually talks in the game, we just never hear him/her communicate.
I mean think about it, how many people in Zelda games ask Link questions? Unless everyone in the games can read his mind telepathically, he must be telling them something. You even select responses to people in certain circumstances.
This feels more like tradition than anything that actually adds to the game, Link has voice, Everyone else has a voice and also has voiced dialogue. It's just corny at this point.
I'll admit that I'm a bit split on this. It is one thing to try have a protagonist that doesn't shut up and thus makes you wish you can mute the voices, but its another when it seems like your protagonist is as flat and boring like a slice of bread.
The main thing that could make or break it might be how the character would conduct themselves if they are silent. If actions speak louder than words and your protagonist isn't talking, then those actions better be loud. Otherwise, the writing better be on point where it doesn't seem like you could put a cut out in from of the people talking to him and they would still talk to that person in the exact same way.
The main thing that could make or break it might be how the character would conduct themselves if they are silent. If actions speak louder than words and your protagonist isn't talking, then those actions better be loud. Otherwise, the writing better be on point where it doesn't seem like you could put a cut out in from of the people talking to him and they would still talk to that person in the exact same way.
It was funny, but that also made it not be able to ever overtake either bw or bw2 in story. I can't take things seriously when you have this dramatic shit with lusamine and you just stand there smiling. In gen 5 you can at least interpret everything and can picture the main character showing emotion.
OP
OP
I agree. It takes away any seriousness when link just stares at people when they talk to him.
I've never cared much about that, but the issue really annoyed me to a certain degree in DQXI.
I am not sure if it's because they implemented it wrong, but I kept thinking about how much better the story would be if the Hero could talk.
I think it depends on the game. Like someone said, In Detarune I didn't even notice it. (Awesome game btw).
If I had to choose, however, I'd choose someone who talks.
I am not sure if it's because they implemented it wrong, but I kept thinking about how much better the story would be if the Hero could talk.
I think it depends on the game. Like someone said, In Detarune I didn't even notice it. (Awesome game btw).
If I had to choose, however, I'd choose someone who talks.
No voiced Link is literally the worst thing about BOTW. Sure, he shouldn't suddenly turn into a motor mouthed smart ass or something, but there is literally no reason for leaving players to "imagine" his voice, he makes sounds, he's talked in other stuff, we generally know what he sounds like.
FO4 is a great game, and the voice acting was great (at least femsale, no idea for the dude).
Especially because he is officially a set character this time. If he is a set character, there is no point to leave it to interpretation.
Pretty much my thoughts. I always see they help with "immersion". No, not at all.
Like give Link a voice. What's the point of keeping him silent? You can add a new dimension (2D -> 3D), new characters, new villains, a timeline, new gameplay mechanics, linear and open world games, but you can't give Link a proper voice?
It totally is. Silent protagonist isn't an archaic system or a limitation of the time, it's a narrative tool that puts the focus on what happens around the protagonist. It's understanding that what you value in your narrative isn't the character that is being controlled but how everything revolves around him. In the same way that the party dynamics of DQXI are far more enjoyable and interesting than if Hero had a voice of his own because he is the device that creates the setup to highlight what's worth highlighting.
Chrono Cross subverted the Silent Protagonist device and has one of the most daring story in the medium thanks to it. There are bad use of this device just like there are extremely good ones. Just like I could spend an hour listing RPGs where I would have given my savings just to make them shut the hell up.
Like I said, 90% of games features a non-silent protagonist. If the better-regarded games you want to play are the ones where the protagonist is silent, then maybe silent protagonist is part of the reason why they are so well regarded. We only see silent protagonist for what they're not saying, not for what they bring by their lack of voice.
At the very least it needs to be designed around them being silent like Doom Guy.
They're living mannequins, what were you expecting?
I think you're confusing what OP is saying. It's not about voice acted versus not voice acted (which, you're right, if you add VA in dialogue-heavy RPGs, it does lose something), but about the kinds of games where the protagonist doesn't have actual dialogue.
In the past it worked because:
1. Other characters weren't voiced
2. It was the "norm" at the time, so you were used to it.
In this day and age when you have a game like say Breath of the Wild, where you legit have voicework in some areas and then a silent protag and other dialogue that's just not voiced it feels REALLY out of place and outdated, like do it one way or the other, but doing just partial voice work and then having a lot of text with no voices makes it feel like you ran out of a budget to finish the voice acting.
Voice acting is a lot better in games these days, we have good voice actors in the industry who can put the emotion and weight behind the characters. This isn't the 90's anymore and I wish more Japanese developers would understand that and get with the times, especially companies like Nintendo who could EASILY afford to have it in their games.
1. Other characters weren't voiced
2. It was the "norm" at the time, so you were used to it.
In this day and age when you have a game like say Breath of the Wild, where you legit have voicework in some areas and then a silent protag and other dialogue that's just not voiced it feels REALLY out of place and outdated, like do it one way or the other, but doing just partial voice work and then having a lot of text with no voices makes it feel like you ran out of a budget to finish the voice acting.
Voice acting is a lot better in games these days, we have good voice actors in the industry who can put the emotion and weight behind the characters. This isn't the 90's anymore and I wish more Japanese developers would understand that and get with the times, especially companies like Nintendo who could EASILY afford to have it in their games.
Silent protagonists have always bothered me. In particular when other characters are voiced and are talking to your character while your character stands there like a mute husk. A good example of this is Link in BOTW. In one cutscene Zelda is pouring her heart out in anguish and Link just gives a blank stare. It totally breaks the tone of the scene.
The reason I like silent protagonists is because the character becomes a stand-in for the player. Especially in RPGs because you know, we are in a ROLE PLAYING game.
When a protagonist has so much backstory including long lost siblings and old rivalries with NPCs it feels more like playing someone else's story and less like I am developing my own narrative.
When a protagonist has so much backstory including long lost siblings and old rivalries with NPCs it feels more like playing someone else's story and less like I am developing my own narrative.
Never been a fan of it but I tolerate it to play some still great games.
But it just turns them into a non character. No I don't feel like I'm the character and it's hard for me to feel any attachment to them
Chrono having a voice in CT would have made it a better game and him a better character
Also just because people advocate for characters to speak doesn't mean they need to be chatty. A quiet character that makes their talking meaningful is also really effective and is something I think games could explore more
But it just turns them into a non character. No I don't feel like I'm the character and it's hard for me to feel any attachment to them
Chrono having a voice in CT would have made it a better game and him a better character
Also just because people advocate for characters to speak doesn't mean they need to be chatty. A quiet character that makes their talking meaningful is also really effective and is something I think games could explore more
The only time I like a silent protagonist is is when I can customize them fully (and thus have them be a genuine stand in for me) or when it's done for meta reasons. Otherwise, having a silent protagonist in the era of fully voiced games just feels jarring.
I liked the approach of the original Dragon Age, and the approach that Final Fantasy XIV has taken. Where you pick the exact dialogue the protagonist speaks.
I liked the approach of the original Dragon Age, and the approach that Final Fantasy XIV has taken. Where you pick the exact dialogue the protagonist speaks.
It's dumb when it's done simply for the sake of tradition or for a false sense of immersion. Maya being a character full of personality in Persona 2: Innocent Sin to being a silent protagonist removing a lot of that away in Persona 2: Eternal Punishment was egregious. And they did it simply for the sake of tradition. It's senseless.
If a character is going to be silent and you surround them with a bunch of characters they need to communicate with, there has to be purpose behind it. It has to be done in a way that makes sense. Because it's just distracting when the protagonist is talked "at" and the fact that they're barely responding isn't acknowledged or played with.
If a character is going to be silent and you surround them with a bunch of characters they need to communicate with, there has to be purpose behind it. It has to be done in a way that makes sense. Because it's just distracting when the protagonist is talked "at" and the fact that they're barely responding isn't acknowledged or played with.
I have been over them when I played Half Life 20 years ago, thank you
What a rancid mechanic
Actual fleshed out protagonists like Geralt, Arthur Morgan, John Marston, Wei Shen, Agent 47, JC Denton, Shepard are infinitely more fun to play as than silent morons from Half Life or Dishonored 1 or Battlefield 4 and others.
Note that I am not talking about games like New Vegas, where the character speaks normally and isn't voiced. I am fine with that (even if voice acting would be preferable).
Not a good argument. Solution to bad writing and voice acting is not no writing and no voice acting. It's better writing and better voice acting.
What a rancid mechanic
Actual fleshed out protagonists like Geralt, Arthur Morgan, John Marston, Wei Shen, Agent 47, JC Denton, Shepard are infinitely more fun to play as than silent morons from Half Life or Dishonored 1 or Battlefield 4 and others.
Note that I am not talking about games like New Vegas, where the character speaks normally and isn't voiced. I am fine with that (even if voice acting would be preferable).
Not a good argument. Solution to bad writing and voice acting is not no writing and no voice acting. It's better writing and better voice acting.
The point people make about F4 is that by needing every single line voice acted (twice), writing becomes unbelievably expensive, which severely affects it.
I'm also tired and over of female protagonists not assuming a straight love story with a male character in her game, you know, just as you would normally receive when playing a male protagonist's game... It should be no different between the two genders. To be strong, it doesn't mean you must defy love (and sexuality).
Disagree. Link has zero personality. One of the emptiest vesells in gaming.
I think silent protagonists can work for the same reasons other people have said. Not so much that I want to project myself (yuck), but it puts the focus on things around the character that are probably more interesting anyway than some person that wants to fight monsters or whatever it is you're doing most of the time in the game.
One thing I really don't like is an over use of voice acting though (this plays into the topic). Voice acting can elevate characters, their personality and the drama, scenes, etc., but it also sloooooowwwwws down scenes that I could've otherwise breezed by. If a scene doesn't have significant dramatic purpose, or if there isn't much of a cinematic flair to it like animations, camera angles, etc., I'd rather absorb the info quickly. Having the player wait to get back to a game is a death sentence in general unless something about the waiting is compelling and justified. It feels more like I'm playing a game when I can read text and "X" through dialogue than waiting for characters to take their turns to speak.
So I have warm feelings for silent protagonists because it feels like they're of an age of design where you didn't have to wait around to get through a gap in gameplay. Not only is the protagonist not speaking and just playing off others, I also don't have to wait around for others to finish talking. To have an example, I'm playing Ys VIII right now, and I think it handles all of this perfectly. There's still voice acting in the game, but often times you can just read through the text at your own pace for the more non-essential or plotting information. Also, Adol doesn't have to speak, but you still get to every now and again have a little bit of expression as the player with a dialogue option that stays within the bounds of the character. I'm doing something as the character, so even when I do have to endure voice acting that I would've preferred to read through, I'm moving through the game on my own terms. Something that doesn't work as well in another game I'm playing, Assassin's Creed Odyssey, because they let you express yourself as Kassandra, but there are times where she says things that I DON'T have a dialogue options for and I'm just thinking "I wouldn't have wanted her to say that." I don't like the halfway thing, it feels weird.
Plus the fact that the silent protagonist just works better when the other characters are not voice, less noticeable and jarring.
One thing I really don't like is an over use of voice acting though (this plays into the topic). Voice acting can elevate characters, their personality and the drama, scenes, etc., but it also sloooooowwwwws down scenes that I could've otherwise breezed by. If a scene doesn't have significant dramatic purpose, or if there isn't much of a cinematic flair to it like animations, camera angles, etc., I'd rather absorb the info quickly. Having the player wait to get back to a game is a death sentence in general unless something about the waiting is compelling and justified. It feels more like I'm playing a game when I can read text and "X" through dialogue than waiting for characters to take their turns to speak.
So I have warm feelings for silent protagonists because it feels like they're of an age of design where you didn't have to wait around to get through a gap in gameplay. Not only is the protagonist not speaking and just playing off others, I also don't have to wait around for others to finish talking. To have an example, I'm playing Ys VIII right now, and I think it handles all of this perfectly. There's still voice acting in the game, but often times you can just read through the text at your own pace for the more non-essential or plotting information. Also, Adol doesn't have to speak, but you still get to every now and again have a little bit of expression as the player with a dialogue option that stays within the bounds of the character. I'm doing something as the character, so even when I do have to endure voice acting that I would've preferred to read through, I'm moving through the game on my own terms. Something that doesn't work as well in another game I'm playing, Assassin's Creed Odyssey, because they let you express yourself as Kassandra, but there are times where she says things that I DON'T have a dialogue options for and I'm just thinking "I wouldn't have wanted her to say that." I don't like the halfway thing, it feels weird.
Plus the fact that the silent protagonist just works better when the other characters are not voice, less noticeable and jarring.
For me personally, I don't find any extra immersion for it. Especially when you can't customize your character visually. 95% of the time I'm still playing some character (usually a white dude) with a predefined look and predefined relationships, it's just that they can't talk and no one really acknowledges it. Meanwhile in Mass Effect I can self insert pretty well despite the character having dialogue and a voice, because I can make the character look like me and affect what their personality will be like. Or I can roleplay and do something different. Or I can just enjoy a well written character like Geralt in The Witcher. I can't do that with Link or Gordon Freeman or any silent protag in most JRPGs which makes me just see them as boring non-characters with no personality.
I mean, I was being facetious, but every character in that game is technically mute before the patch, just not in-universe.
Funny, I started playing DQ XI today and got the same feeling as you.
Instant turn off on the game. I just can't understand why a game heavilly reliant on cutscenes has a silent protagonist.
But on other games it works, I played Undertale recently and it is barely noticable, and I think the game wouldn't gain anything having it the other way around.
Instant turn off on the game. I just can't understand why a game heavilly reliant on cutscenes has a silent protagonist.
But on other games it works, I played Undertale recently and it is barely noticable, and I think the game wouldn't gain anything having it the other way around.
I'm the opposite, I used to hate them but I started to appreciate them lately, especially because written protagonists tend to be unrelateable as fuck
